Shiwiii

So in Isaiah 28, God said that He would lay a stone in Zion, a precious stone, a cornerstone and whoever believes in this "stone" will not panic/be disturbed/disappointed. I get this and would draw the conclusion that it is Jesus, based on some other scriptures, like Psalm 118:22. In Psalm 118, this same stone is rejected by some and has become a stumbling block to those who reject Him. Again, this is echoed in scripture (Matthew 21:42-46) as Jesus was rejected as being the Messiah of the Jews, and rather put to death because of it. There are many other scriptures that clarify this "stone" as being Jesus. For instance, Acts 4:10-12, tells us directly that this stone is Jesus and that Peter and John were speaking to Jewish rulers. Ephesians 2:19&20 again speaks directly that this is Jesus, "Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone". 1 Peter 2 says that they will stumble over this cornerstone, they that reject Him (Jesus), and it is by this very stone that those who believe will become a spiritual house for holy priesthood. To be a cornerstone is to be the foundation, the base, the direct starting point in which to build.

Who is the cornerstone in Isaiah 28:16 and Psalm 118:22? What does it mean to be the cornerstone?

what exactly do they publish?

If you continue in 1 Corinthinas 15, it goes on to say: 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. This is not speaking of being given a new body, but rather adding to the existing one. The putting on of incorruption and immorality is almost like that of a coat or covering.

when you start your post with statements like this, it tells me that you really have no interest in conversation. Your only goal is to puff yourself up and demand to be right.

yes, I know. I just didn't want others to assimilate those statements to me. It was just a mistake in who's name you used as being quoted. Look back and you can see where it was a quote from Melinda, but my name was used. No problems though, just wanted point that out.

You should be asking your elders, or GB about this, it is their teaching. If nothing about a human survives death, then who exactly is in heaven? Are Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob there? Or is it just a copy of who they were? Maybe the true definition of clone doesn't work, but copy I would think matches what the WT teaches.

I do not take credit/responsibility for those statements. These are actually quotes from Melinda from the WT and not me.

How disgraceful and childish. Instead of relying on content in your message, you choose to try and belittle.

So you cannot give your account of the gospel, instead you create a new topic of discussion.....nope, not going to follow you there. If you cannot have a discussion, only diversion, then I guess we are done here.

My personal opinion is based on the fact that there is no ancient manuscript of the NT that contains the name Jehovah or YHWH. This is admitted by your organization, but you call it my opinion....

No, in my mind the apostles were pointing people to Christ and NOT an organization. The WTS points people to themselves, to come and join their org under the guise of aligning with Christ. What exactly is your gospel? are you telling me it is not written like that in your publications? If you look at your own quote it states it exactly as I quoted it. That one must come to Jehovah's organization for salvation. Their rewritten word of God, not the inspired one. The inspired one does not contain "Jehovah" "YHWH" in the NT. Can you provide scripture that states one must serve "his organization" please?

What difference does bound vs CDROM have to do with apostasy? Is there a new teaching out now, that if you have bound volumes you are now an apostate? Do tell.... very different, the apostles did not draw people to themselves, like this statement we're talking about has, but instead pointed to Jesus! So there is a big difference between the WT and the apostles.

by all means, please correct my thinking on this one statement made by the WT : "Come to Jehovah's organization for salvation" - Watchtower 1981 Nov 15 p.212 I believe it means that they have claimed the title of God, as He is the only one who can save.

No it doesn't seem right, it seems pretty dishonest really. Just write your own bible like the Mormons did if you want ti to say something else. I find it strange that JWs cannot accept that the organization changes words to suit their agenda, all with the backing of uninspired texts and ignoring the fact that even the oldest manuscripts do not include YHWH in the NT.

My question, which answers the original question, is this: Why would an all powerful God not be able to preserve His words to mankind and need a small group of men to fix it for Him? Could God not take care of this on His own? Psalms 138:2 " I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name. " If, as this Psalm states, God magnifies His word above His name, shouldn't He have been able to keep the Bible intact and correct? Of course He can, and did. That is the simple answer. It is only men who want to rewrite it to fit their need.

Allen, how can one misinterpret those statements? They are pretty plain. It seems that you do know, but choose to bury those thoughts because the society tells you to. If I have misinterpreted those statements, please explain them to me one by one. I'll list them again for your convenience: "To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it." Watchtower 1983 Feb 15 p.12 "These overseers faithfully seek to apply instructions received from JehovahGod and Jesus Christ by means of the faithful and discreet slave and its Governing Body." Watchtower 1990 Mar 15 p.20 "Come to Jehovah's organization for salvation" - Watchtower 1981 Nov 15 p.212 Who is the one who brings salvation? Not some organization!!!!! JESUS is the answer! The Watchtower 1975 Sep 1 p.531 asks "Where could we turn if we would leave God's organization today? There is nowhere else! This is a play on Simon Peter's words in John 6:68 " Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." Not an organization, but rather Jesus! "But if we were to draw away from Jehovah's organization, there would be no place else to go for salvation and true joy." Watchtower 1993 Sep 15 p.22 "They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah's organization is essential to their salvation." Kingdom Ministry 1990 Nov p.1 "And while now the witness yet includes the invitation to come to Jehovah's organization for salvation, the time no doubt will come when the message takes on a harder tone, like a "great war cry."" Watchtower 1981 Nov 15 p.21

These two statements by the both of you are not synonymous, and they were asked with the same question.

I gave you your history and you don't want it. It come from their own publications! how can you continue to deny what they themselves wrote?

What on earth do you mean "nevermind" ? As if that is some side note. If Jesus commands it, then it is God's will. Not some extra bonus that God gives us to do, it is commanded. You do know that this is not what is written in the Bible, right?

No, That is exactly my point. It is within our being that these things dwell. Our minds are separate from our heart, because our mind is carnal. Our heart is our real desire, thus where the "thoughts" dwell.

You must not be aware of some statements made by the GB: "To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it." Watchtower 1983 Feb 15 p.12 "These overseers faithfully seek to apply instructions received from JehovahGod and Jesus Christ by means of the faithful and discreet slave and its Governing Body." Watchtower 1990 Mar 15 p.20 "Come to Jehovah's organization for salvation" - Watchtower 1981 Nov 15 p.212 The Watchtower 1975 Sep 1 p.531 asks "Where could we turn if we would leave God's organization today? There is nowhere else! "But if we were to draw away from Jehovah's organization, there would be no place else to go for salvation and true joy." Watchtower 1993 Sep 15 p.22 "They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah's organization is essential to their salvation." Kingdom Ministry 1990 Nov p.1 "And while now the witness yet includes the invitation to come to Jehovah's organization for salvation, the time no doubt will come when the message takes on a harder tone, like a "great war cry."" Watchtower 1981 Nov 15 p.21 Who runs the WT? The GB, that's who. Who writes and/or approves the messages? The GB, that's who.

what does that have to do with it? You made the statement that Witness could not be a JW if he didn't know that is was to come to God and Christ. The Praeceptor clearly did not give the same answer as you did. So that means someone, either you or The Praeceptor, needs to get in line and speak together or else there is a division among your group.

Then why did Jesus command the disciples to "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations..." All the nations could not associate with one another and they would still certainly be scattered.

I believe this is limiting God. Does God need anything from us to do His will? Your statement makes the argument that there is.