Shiwiii

I don't think there has been a time when the gb nor the wt were ever right, but that is just my opinion based on the Bible itself. 
 
I also do not believe there has to be any organization here on Earth. What you said is true, the apostles did set up churches and taught them the basis of morals based on the Bible, but they did not have an "organization". There was not a group of men running the show, it was God running the show. Now I'm sure some one is going to quote Acts, Romans or Galatians, but one must read those carefully. It is not some gb making a decision, but rather the apostles condemning their practices that were made by men. 

OK, John.  This is long, but I hope you give it a try.  
It was hard for me once leaving the Watchtower; thinking I had to “go” somewhere, because the Watchtower has ingrained this concept into their members.
Here’s are  examples:
w06 2/15 pp. 26-30   If I find myself in a situation where changes seem hard to accept, I reflect on Peter’s words to Jesus: ‘Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life.’ Then I ask myself, ‘Where shall I go away to—out there into the darkness of the world?’ This helps me to hold firmly to God’s organization.”—John 6:68.
w88 3/15 pp. 15-20    Furthermore, suppose a person was to separate himself from Jehovah’s people. Where could he go? Is he not faced with the same issue that confronted Jesus’ apostles when he asked them if they also wanted to leave him? The apostle Peter rightly replied: “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life.” (John 6:68) There is nowhere else to go but to “Babylon the Great,” the world empire of false religion, or into the clutches of Satan’s political “wild beast.” (Revelation 13:1; 18:1-5) Largely, disloyal ones who have left Jehovah’s visible organization have made common cause with those in God-dishonoring “Babylon the Great.”
 Simon Peter answered, “Lord, to whom will we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to believe and know that you are the Holy One of God.”  John 6:68,69
Can you see how Christ’s words have been twisted by the WT, making people believe that an organization is the way of salvation, simply because they “preach” Christ?  We both know that the organization cannot provide salvation.
There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to people by which we must be saved.”  Acts 4:12
The Watchtower, on rare occasions, has supported this scripture by saying:
Watchtower 1990 11/1 p. 26 Our Relative Subjection to the Superior Authorities
"As Christians, we face up to similar challenges today. We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry—be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization." 
And then, hypocritically turn around to say:
Kingdom Ministry 11/1990 p. 1  Directing Bible Students to Jehovah’s Organization 
"Bible students need to get acquainted with the organization of the “one flock” Jesus spoke about at John 10:16. They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah’s organization is essential to their salvation. (Rev. 7:9, 10, 15) Therefore, we should start directing our Bible students to the organization as soon as a Bible study is established."  
It seems pretty clear to me that I cannot give my allegiance to men’s “organized” way of doing things.  I must rely completely on my faith in Christ and the Father. 
The man who finally succumbed to the ideals of “organization” first stated:
Beware of "organization." It is wholly unnecessary. The Bible rules will be the only rules you will need. Do not seek to bind others' consciences, and do not permit others to bind yours. Believe and obey so far as you can understand God's Word today, and so continue growing in grace and knowledge and love day by day."   CT Russell Watchtower1895/9/15
In the Watchtower men have become “kings”, ruling over others. (1 Sam 8:6) However, we have our King, Jesus Christ.  As I have said, “leaders” within Christ’s anointed Body, guide people to the King of Kings, Lord of Lords with words spoken in truth, but they do not reign them in through the stipulations driving an organization.   Once earthly organization is introduced, a hierarchy of power is born, which is derived from the realm of Satan. (1 Sam 8:10-18)
God said,
Seek the Lord while he may be found;
call to him while he is near.
7 Let the wicked one abandon his way
and the sinful one his thoughts;
let him return to the Lord,
so he may have compassion on him,
and to our God, for he will freely forgive.
8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
and your ways are not my ways.”
This is the Lord’s declaration.
9 “For as heaven is higher than earth,
so my ways are higher than your ways,
and my thoughts than your thoughts.  Isa 55:6-9
Did He say seek an organization?  Are man’s ideals the same as God’s ideals?
We are to take in “new wine” that Jesus has offered us; new understanding about the new Temple of God built on the anointed ones.  He also said that this new way of worship will be rejected.
 And no one, after drinking old wine, wants new, because he says, ‘The old is better.’”  Luke 5:39
 The anointed are to be organized according to God’s way; yet, at this time period of the end, an “organization” has shattered the Temple, “trampled” God’s anointed House by men who “bind others’ consciences”.  This is the sign of the presence of the Man of Lawlessness.  2 Thess 2:3,4
Okay, so why are the “Jews” that “ten” men seek out, so hard to find?  Because as I see you doing, you are looking for them to “organize” in the same pattern of the one you left. 
Restored spiritual “Israel” is “built” with God’s Spirit.  They will be the “capstone”, completing God’s Temple.  Zech 4:8-14; Rev 11:1-3; Matt 18:20  The anointed are gathering, but as small as they are (Amos 7:2); those believers that join them are becoming many. Ezek 36:6-11  They are spiritually “organized” according to the direction of Holy Spirit.  They are a spiritual "congregation", known completely by the Father and Jesus.    They make God’s “name” known; not as an organization that says it makes the name of God known, yet extols the work of man’s hands which the Watchtower has done, and then compare it to God.  Ps 50:16-23; (Isa 46)  Michael, who stands up for his people, proclaims the meaning of his name; “Who is like God?” (Joel 2:32)  The Watchtower and the majority of its members claim, “who or what is like Jehovah’s organization”? 
All the people of the world were amazed and followed the beast. 4 They worshiped the serpent because it had given authority to the beast. They also worshiped the beast and said, “Who is like the beast? Who can fight a war with it?” Rev 13:3b,4
The “two witnesses of Christ”/”wise virgins” side with him in this battle of truth against lies.  They do not need an organization as we know it, to do so.  Rev 12:7; 1 Cor 2:10   
In the first century every apostle was directed by Holy Spirit, not by a “governing body” in Jerusalem.  They may have taken care of a problem together on circumcision, but this doesn’t mean they were organized according to men.  Paul traveled everywhere that the spirit directed him.  Who sent Philip to the Ethiopian eunuch?  A GB?  It was Holy Spirit.  We have never read in the scriptures that the apostles and believers upheld and extolled an “organization” in Jerusalem.  Yet, Paul distinctly taught the anointed ones how they were part of God’s Temple/House. Eph 2:20-22; 1 Cor 12. He concentrated on bringing this Body together, for them to learn who they were, and how they would serve God in the Kingdom.    If you will consider it, there is a good article on this:  http://holyspiritorgoverningbody-obadiah.blogspot.com/
During the time that the last Man of Lawless is revealed, what happens?
Don’t you remember that when I was still with you I used to tell you about this? 6 And you know what currently restrains him, so that he will be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one now restraining will do so until he is out of the way, 8 and then the lawless one will be revealed. The Lord Jesus will destroy him with the breath of his mouth and will bring him to nothing at the appearance of his coming. 2 Thess 2:5-8
Through Holy Spirit, the “two witnesses”/anointed ones “prophesy” and reveal the Man of Lawlessness.   (Rev 4:11,14; Rev 11:1-3)  Their “words”, coming from Christ, judge and condemn.
The coming of the lawless one is based on Satan’s working, with all kinds of false miracles, signs, and wonders,10 and with every wicked deception among those who are perishing. They perish because they did not accept the love of the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a strong delusion so that they will believe the lie, 12 so that all will be condemned—those who did not believe the truth but delighted in unrighteousness.  2 Thess 2:9-12
Do you really believe there is time to “organize” according to men’s direction, another earthly house of worship? John 4:23,24  It wouldn’t be successful.   This is why Jesus said,  “Believe me. A time is coming when you Samaritans won’t be worshiping the Father on this mountain or in the (literal city of) Jerusalem. “  John 4:21
(I find it interesting that the name “Samaria” means “watch tower”!)
I feel you may be “kicking against the goads”.  Rely totally on the Father and Christ to lead you to truth.  Check out the links I have given you.  Understand that we are living close to the end.  Armageddon is fought, not in Satan’s earthly realm, but on the “low plain” or valley of decision”, revealing the intentions of the heart’s desires.  Joel 3:14-16; Matt 13:24-30 We either struggle to find and follow Christ and his truths, or rely on men’s twisted interpretation of scripture through organizational means.    Both come to us in totally different ways. 
 
The plans of the heart belong to humans,
    but an answer on the tongue comes from the Lord.
2 A person thinks all his ways are pure,
    but the Lord weighs motives.
3 Entrust your efforts to the Lord,
    and your plans will succeed..  Prov 16:1-3
 
The end time preaching work is extraordinary; not at all as the Watchtower teaches.  Jesus said this preaching work would be to “Israel” – the anointed ones/Temple. Matt 10:23; Rev 11:1-3  They are the “kings of the earth”, God’s people now gathered in the Watchtower organization.  Rev 1:5; 19:19;21:24 (Rev 5:9,10)  They, along with all inside, are told to “come out of her” and leave her sins behind.  Rev 18:4-8
 
 
 
 

I don't think there has been a time when the gb nor the wt were ever right, but that is just my opinion based on the Bible itself. 
 
I also do not believe there has to be any organization here on Earth. What you said is true, the apostles did set up churches and taught them the basis of morals based on the Bible, but they did not have an "organization". There was not a group of men running the show, it was God running the show. Now I'm sure some one is going to quote Acts, Romans or Galatians, but one must read those carefully. It is not some gb making a decision, but rather the apostles condemning their practices that were made by men. 

Here's what I think is funny, but not really, So John becomes the subject of conversation in this thread and scorn from some because he has not reported abuse to the police based on the knowledge he may have. These same folks who point the finger at John, defend a policy that does not report anything to the police. 
 
There is only one description for this kind of behavior. 
 
Hypocrisy! 
 
And this surprises me none coming from those who support the wt and gb.

Based on your statement and the word "obligate" 
https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/obligate
Synonyms for obligate
require
constrain
oblige
bind
force
restrain
restrict
astrict
indebt
 
common sense says no, but now were dealing with people who cannot think for themselves because the gb has told them otherwise. 
I understand, your org is precious and when outsiders (government commissions included) point out things that are just plain WRONG, it hurts your view of right and wrong. Its called cognitive dissonance.  

only if forced by the law of the land, otherwise.....SHHhhhhhhhh  don't tell anyone because it will make jehovah sad. 

so jws have to wait until forced to what is good? 

so why doesn't the policy state to bring it up to the police? 
Would they if it was murder?     it is in a sense murder, murder of their innocence. 

Romans 13 says they are bound by means of doing what is good. 

Romans13
1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.
 
How come this does not come into the minds of jws when talking about CSA and the authorities? 

bah, I do not believe you. 
I believe you would talk to elders and then keep quiet so that you don't make Jehovah sad. 
That's policy, right? 

so why doesn't the policy state to bring it up to the police? 
Would they if it was murder?     it is in a sense murder, murder of their innocence. 

so jws have to wait until forced to what is good? 

In one hand your word is right Anna, but Shiwiii have better argument because Natural Law, or if you like Bible verses, have stronger argument, and that is; ..... do what is good in your eyes, by your conscious, what is good before people and before God, obey God more than men. Or if you want Ultimate and Final bible text about ALL things in LIFE ----- Love your neighbor as yourself.  
 
...so what ever GB or WT Manual Book or lawyer or Court or police say .....do love  .... and do find the way. 

Based on your statement and the word "obligate" 
https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/obligate
Synonyms for obligate
require
constrain
oblige
bind
force
restrain
restrict
astrict
indebt
 
common sense says no, but now were dealing with people who cannot think for themselves because the gb has told them otherwise. 
I understand, your org is precious and when outsiders (government commissions included) point out things that are just plain WRONG, it hurts your view of right and wrong. Its called cognitive dissonance.  

Romans 13 says they are bound by means of doing what is good. 

Romans13
1 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, 4 for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.
 
How come this does not come into the minds of jws when talking about CSA and the authorities? 

Quote @Anna  "....you just want the congregation to be informed to protect the children in that congregation. "
I don't think it is possible to instruct the Elders that you want the congregation to be informed.... As far as I am aware the Elders DO NOT INFORM the congregation that there is a Pedophile within it. They certainly would not name the Pedophile. 
And it seems you are advising the idea of hiding a Pedophile within the JW Org, which is one of the things I've been saying from square one.  By not informing the police it would be hiding that Pedophile in that congregation. It would also be protecting a criminal. 
Quite strange really as this is what you are accusing me of, failing in my duty to report it.  But in this 'hypothetical situation' he would have first hand evidence, therefore be more entitled to report it, and more morally duty bound to do so. 
But also, are you saying that the Elders are not bound by scripture / service to God, to report it to the police, even if there is no 'law' of the land to do so ? Are you suggesting that those men (Elders) who, you would say, are chosen by God or Jesus Christ, through Holy Spirit,  yet are not bound to care for the safety of people inside and outside the JW Org ? Is there not obligation for such ones to care for widows and orphans, and little children within and outside the Org if it is possible for them to do so. 

What would it be if it were happened.....
We do not need this imagination because we have real people with real events dear Anna.

Did WT made change about need for TWO witnesses?
Did WT allow that sisters/women be present in investigation process as support for male and especially female minors victims and other victims  no matter of ages? 
Did WT allow that sister/women be involved in Judicial process that involve sex crimes and domestic violence inside and outside family environment when female victims are involved? 
Did WT open secret files and fully cooperate with police and Courts?
.....etc.
 
 

I can clearly see that @Anna is doing her very best to go OFF TOPIC. 
She sees me as an easy target, which she thinks will distract people from the EARTHWIDE CHILD ABUSE within the JW ORGANISATION.
She also tries to pretend that it is all about ABUSE IN THE PAST. Not true of course as many recent cases seem to be coming to light. 
And those victims from the past 50 years are still suffering. It's a lifetime thing, it does not go away. 
Does anyone have a follow up on the English translation of the BLUE LETTERS topic ? 
It might just add a bit more fuel to the fire  
By the way Anna it seems to have been proven that Elders deliberately destroy 'notes' / paperwork about Child Abuse accusations, so that when Police ask for the evidence it's 'no longer available'. So I would not go and warn the elders anyway. Why would i want to give them chance to destroy evidence ?  If I did take any action it would be to go directly to the Police, but it is doubtful that I will.  

bah, I do not believe you. 
I believe you would talk to elders and then keep quiet so that you don't make Jehovah sad. 
That's policy, right? 

It most certainly does negate and or replace the criminal aspect if they do not take it to the police. They are then an accomplice to covering up abuse. Why do you think there are so many lawsuits going on right now?  
 
Are you just playing dumb or are you serious? I think you are trying to make this seem silly and petty, when in fact it is far from it. Children are being raped and molested, and this org and its supporters of "WT policy" are covering it up and refusing to protect the victims and or future victims.
 
Was it considered lies by the devil or Satan's media/fake news when this was/is going on within the Catholic church and jws talked about it then? 
 

If it is so as this declaration No 10 say, than WHY elders must contact Legal Department first on how this purely religious proceeding must continue. ?? How it is possible that mature elders can not decide (independently, according to their so called "Bible-educated" conscience or better - according to their Natural God given Conscience) how first thing, in benefit for the victim, is that POLICE have to secure PHYSICAL SAFETY FOR VICTIM, and then after this first step or parallel to this very first move that  must been done, is SPIRITUAL SAFETY for victim that this so called "mature men" have to provide. 
According to your brother Asch in his deposition, he made this CLEAR DISTINCTION about PHYSICAL SAFETY and SPIRITUAL SAFETY and how WT GB and their Lawyers defending themselves and their money and their Organizational Honor.
Your respond on John's post is how things he mentioned is from past, in 1980 es. ARC is from 2015 and WT elders in Australia are very bad role model as those elders from 1980 period. No progress was made in benefit for victims. All because of money and WTJWorg Corporation Public Picture.
Face the TRUTH and Reality please!