Shiwiii

It is interpreted by means of scripture. 
First we have to agree that scripture does not contradict itself. agreed? 
If that is your belief as well, then great we are on the same page. 
If John 1:3 states that not a single thing came into existence without Jesus, what does that mean to you? Does it mean that Jesus created Himself? Before you jump to your answer, let me just say that I believe that Jesus was begotten. This is evident by scripture. What does that even mean? Begotten? To keep this as simple as we can, lets stick with the book of John for a minute. John 1:14 mentions that Jesus is begotten , the only begotten from the Father.
 
The word in Greek is:
G3439
μονογενής
monogenēs
mon-og-en-ace
From G3441 and G1096 ; only {born} that {is} sole: - only ({begotten} child).
 
Which is derived from G3441 and G1096 which are:
G3441
μόνος
monos
mon'-os
Probably from G3306 ; {remaining} that {is} sole or single ; by implication mere: - {alone} {only} by themselves.
 
and 
 
G1096
γίνομαι
ginomai
ghin'-om-ahee
A prolonged and middle form of a primary verb; to cause to be ( gen {-erate}) that {is} (reflexively) to become ( come into {being }) used with great latitude ({literally} {figuratively} {intensively} etc.): - arise be {assembled} be ({come} {-fall} -have {self}) be brought (to {pass}) (be) come (to {pass}) {continue} be {divided} be {done} {draw} be {ended} {fall} be {finished} {follow} be {found} be {fulfilled} + God {forbid} {grow} {happen} {have} be {kept} be {made} be {married} be ordained to {be} {partake} {pass} be {performed} be {published} {require} {seem} be {showed} X soon as it {was} {sound} be {taken} be {turned} {use} {wax} {will} {would} be wrought.
 
As we can see here is means single,only,sole of what? to become, be brought to, to cause to be. Sounds very much like created, I agree. However, within context of John 1:3, it would mean that Jesus created Himself. The writers could have also used a different word in John 1:14 instead of begotten and that would be :
G2936
κτίζω
ktizō
ktid'-zo
Probably akin to G2932 (through the idea of the proprietorship of the manufacturer ); to {fabricate} that {is} found ( form originally): - {create} {Creator} make.
Clearly this kitzo has the meaning of created and it is used throughout the New Testament when read in context. But that wasn't the word used to describe Jesus. The idea of begotten is only found in the New Testament 9 times with 6 of those attributed to Jesus. The other 3 are speaking of a single child of a father or mother. This is true, but if you look at how it is used towards Jesus vs how it is used towards the son or daughter the other three times, you see a vast difference of importance within context.
Did Jesus come from the Father? yes.
Is Jesus unlike ANY other? yes
Was Jesus created? no. 
I agree with this statement. 
 
I have provided scripture and definitions from Strong's to support my belief. I haven't nullified any scripture nor ignored any. please demonstrate from your perspective, with Scripture and we can go from there. 

it all depends on your interpretation of "firstborn" or rather 
G4416
πρωτοτόκος
prōtotokos
pro-tot-ok'-os
From G4413 and the alternate of G5088 ; first born (usually as {noun} literally or figuratively): - firstbegotten (-born).
 
But if we let scripture speak for itself,  what does John 1:3 say? Does it say that Jesus made everything that has ever been made and nothing that has ever been made was made without Him having made it? I believe it does.
There is no separation from verse 1 through 3 on who is the subject, the subject is Jesus. So with that being said, for Jesus to have been created, He would have to create Himself. 
 

oh yes, I totally understand this point. To assimilate the jw elders to police, while a very accurate analogy, is going  a bit far. Without going into the qualifications of these "police elders", they aren't even versed in the ways they are supposed to be, ie CSA. They are merely told to call someone else. I don't even buy the whole "well they are imperfect people", that is a complete cop out and a perfect excuse for the blunders they've committed. If they are not qualified, then they're not anything more than advisers. Advice is great if it is accepted and put into practice, but in reality that's all they are is advisers. 
again spiritual cops? hardly. In the end we, individuals, are held accountable for what we have done, not a group of uneducated men dictating the "standards" of an organization. While on this topic of standards, Can anyone show me in the Bible where beards are looked down upon? how about higher education? birthdays? and the list goes on. Its not found anywhere, its man made. 
 
isn't this where parents and the Bible come in? It is.
Integrity is learned by following the morals instilled in you from either your dedication to the Bible/God, your parents (family), friends, observation, etc. Even then, some choose to disregard those morals and thus do not have it. 
that is wishful thinking. We already know people are flawed. Sure we all make mistakes, get speeding tickets, lie, cheat, steal, etc. Its our human nature, but to give authority to a group of men who are no more trained than I is absurd. To be held accountable and receive discipline in the magnitude that is dished out, merely based on standards imposed by men, is just plain foolishness. I guess that may also be why the gb doesn't want people to go and receive higher education, to learn to think for themselves. 
I apologize if I may offend anyone with my statements here, but it is "the truth". 
 

oh yes, I totally understand this point. To assimilate the jw elders to police, while a very accurate analogy, is going  a bit far. Without going into the qualifications of these "police elders", they aren't even versed in the ways they are supposed to be, ie CSA. They are merely told to call someone else. I don't even buy the whole "well they are imperfect people", that is a complete cop out and a perfect excuse for the blunders they've committed. If they are not qualified, then they're not anything more than advisers. Advice is great if it is accepted and put into practice, but in reality that's all they are is advisers. 
again spiritual cops? hardly. In the end we, individuals, are held accountable for what we have done, not a group of uneducated men dictating the "standards" of an organization. While on this topic of standards, Can anyone show me in the Bible where beards are looked down upon? how about higher education? birthdays? and the list goes on. Its not found anywhere, its man made. 
 
isn't this where parents and the Bible come in? It is.
Integrity is learned by following the morals instilled in you from either your dedication to the Bible/God, your parents (family), friends, observation, etc. Even then, some choose to disregard those morals and thus do not have it. 
that is wishful thinking. We already know people are flawed. Sure we all make mistakes, get speeding tickets, lie, cheat, steal, etc. Its our human nature, but to give authority to a group of men who are no more trained than I is absurd. To be held accountable and receive discipline in the magnitude that is dished out, merely based on standards imposed by men, is just plain foolishness. I guess that may also be why the gb doesn't want people to go and receive higher education, to learn to think for themselves. 
I apologize if I may offend anyone with my statements here, but it is "the truth". 
 

Ok, maybe my opinion isn't needed here but I am sure to give it anyway.
 
What happened to individual morals? If two people are adults, and I mean mature enough to understand the dangers of being alone together out of public view after a wonderful evening, etc. , why must other adults....err....grown men stick their noses in other people's business? Sure there can be some accountability held by informing a friend or family member of the evening plans or whatever, but to have an adult principal to oversee your dance party/movie night/dinner date is actually pathetic and demonstrates a lack of self control and a willingness to let others dictate YOUR life.  This whole idea that elders have some sort of authority over how you live your life is expressing that jws as a whole cannot make their own decisions and must sneak and hide like high school kids. If you have no personal boundaries, then you are going to do what you are going to do, its just like integrity, you have it or your don't. 
I just don't get it.

oh yes, I totally understand this point. To assimilate the jw elders to police, while a very accurate analogy, is going  a bit far. Without going into the qualifications of these "police elders", they aren't even versed in the ways they are supposed to be, ie CSA. They are merely told to call someone else. I don't even buy the whole "well they are imperfect people", that is a complete cop out and a perfect excuse for the blunders they've committed. If they are not qualified, then they're not anything more than advisers. Advice is great if it is accepted and put into practice, but in reality that's all they are is advisers. 
again spiritual cops? hardly. In the end we, individuals, are held accountable for what we have done, not a group of uneducated men dictating the "standards" of an organization. While on this topic of standards, Can anyone show me in the Bible where beards are looked down upon? how about higher education? birthdays? and the list goes on. Its not found anywhere, its man made. 
 
isn't this where parents and the Bible come in? It is.
Integrity is learned by following the morals instilled in you from either your dedication to the Bible/God, your parents (family), friends, observation, etc. Even then, some choose to disregard those morals and thus do not have it. 
that is wishful thinking. We already know people are flawed. Sure we all make mistakes, get speeding tickets, lie, cheat, steal, etc. Its our human nature, but to give authority to a group of men who are no more trained than I is absurd. To be held accountable and receive discipline in the magnitude that is dished out, merely based on standards imposed by men, is just plain foolishness. I guess that may also be why the gb doesn't want people to go and receive higher education, to learn to think for themselves. 
I apologize if I may offend anyone with my statements here, but it is "the truth". 
 

Aranua, I think you were replying to me on this post. I don't think I am leaving YHWH out of anything, but rather it is the men who call themselves elders who have left YHWH out of it and took it upon themselves to determine who is repentant and who is not. I mean, think about this for a moment, Who establishes the "rule" or criteria for how long a person must "study" WT material before they can be baptized? Is it YHWH or is it men? Looking at the Bible, specifically Acts 8:29-39, what did the Ethiopian have to do? What were the requirements for him? None, but yet there are these requirements made by men within the Org? How about the requirement to show up late and leave early for meetings to prove your repentance to the elders, if one were disfellowshipped, and for how long must one be under this bondage to be considered "good enough"? Did Jesus require this of the thief next to Him in Luke 23:42&43? What was the requirement?

Right, and I agree with you on the point that God knows,  but Is there a real difference between willful and out of weakness? Even in weakness we have a conscience. Where in the Bible does it say the degrees of severity of sin? 
 
My thought on this matter is who does elder so and so think he is by determining who is and who is not repentant? Is that not God's job? 

easy tiger,
sarcasm, with a little taste of wt to go with it. 

easy tiger,
sarcasm, with a little taste of wt to go with it. 

Laughing at the idea that we are 'helping Jehovah' by setting aside a specific, pre-planned amount of money in advance every month so that we don't forget to donate -- and automatically get a receipt. "Because this way, I can help Jehovah every month" a sister says at 2min20sec into the tutorial video.
We can help Jehovah's people, help Jehovah's organization, even help Jehovah's "cause" in a sense. But only persons who have an extreme ego, or who confuse Jehovah with the organization believe they are "helping Jehovah." 
*** w91 12/1 p. 31 How Can We Repay Jehovah? ***
Such giving is not restricted to a tithe, or tenth, and there may be circumstances in which an individual is moved to give more to advance Kingdom interests.—Matthew 6:33. The apostle Paul said: “Let each one do just as he has resolved in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.” (2 Corinthians 9:7) If you give cheerfully and generously in support of true worship, you will fare well, for a wise proverb says: “Honor Jehovah with your valuable things and with the firstfruits of all your produce. Then your stores of supply will be filled with plenty; and with new wine your own press vats will overflow.”—Proverbs 3:9, 10. We cannot enrich the Most High. To him belong all the gold and silver, the beasts on a thousand mountains, and valuable things without number. (Psalm 50:10-12) Never can we repay God for all his benefits to us. But we can show our deep appreciation for him and for the privilege of rendering sacred service to his praise. And we can be sure that rich blessings flow to those who give liberally to promote pure worship and honor the loving and generous God, Jehovah.—2 Corinthians 9:11.  

Be cautious and evaluate, yes of course. 
But not be blind or pretend not to see the truth about the JW Org. 
Unless you too are saying all the Child Abuse Victims are telling lies. Are you ? 
I agree with the Proverbs scripture, but the naive ones are the JW congregants that believe every word of the GB. 

I wonder why there are no comments from jws on this thread? 

Item about child sexual abuse within community of Jehovah's Witnesses, RTL Nieuws (Netherlands), October 6th, 2018 English subtitles included
 

What should a member of the JW community do?

JW TV and publications does not provide balanced news regarding events related to the WT organization and the legal aspects involved, such as court cases concerning pedophilia and failure to report such events to secular institutions.

It also forbids JW members to contact the former JW, even to say simple "hello" on street or wherever. Even when they (GB of WTJWORG) allowing a JW member to talk to their excluded family member who living in the same family (house, under same roof - literally, because if exJW not live in same family place, instructions are that JW have to cut all possible contacts), WT prohibits them from discussing so-called "spiritual things." Because they consider that the former JW could be repulsive and "fool", spoil the true JW witness with "inaccurate proofs" and "apostate teachings".

What does the magazine "Awake" say about whether to listen and to be familiar with the opposing views? Here is what WT consider as "positive". It is in context of "evolution issue" but we can see "the principle", don't we? Would you, do you use the same principle and be careful and wary about WT claims how "all is apostates lies"?! Quotes are as following;
 
Examine the Evidence
IF YOU were on trial in a court of law, would it be fair if only your opponent was allowed to present evidence? No, you would surely want the court to hear your side of the matter.
Reasonable persons agree that the only fair method is to examine the evidence on both sides, both for and against a disputed theory. That is how one arrives at the truth.
But, as physicist L. Dolphin wrote to the San Francisco Chronicle: “It is intellectually dishonest to fail to answer some of these problem areas in textbooks, and to exclude other scientifically based models on the grounds that they are merely fundamentalistic religious beliefs.”
Truly it is “intellectually dishonest” not to want any opposing views heard on such a disputed matter. It has to make reasonable persons ask, Why?
Reasonable persons also consider it unworthy of serious scholarship to try to stamp out criticism of evolution by dictatorial methods, by intimidation, or by attitudes such as that of prominent American scientist Isaac Asimov, who said that questioning the theory of evolution is like “attacking the theory of gravity.” He added: “It’s a fact, not speculation.” But gravity can be demonstrated, tested, and proved in the laboratory and elsewhere. Evolution cannot, which is why so many are challenging it. No one is challenging the idea of gravity.
Trying to insult the intelligence of critics of evolution to silence them is especially “intellectually dishonest” when many evolutionists themselves admit that the theory has not been proved.
No, it will no longer do to try to browbeat or insult persons who challenge evolution, or to imply that they are intellectually deficient. To get to the heart of the matter, we have to put the “guessing” aside and honestly analyze the facts that are available.
What happens when we do examine the facts, without the “guessing”?
 
end of quotes from https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101973762    Awake 22 10 1973, page 7.
How do you feel about this? "Old truth" but truth :))))
 

Elders will be deleted if a family member is pursuing a university education. 2nd paragraph bullet point 3.

But no beards!!!!

Oh it’s sorta like when you want to grow a beard, but thereÂ’s no Biblical basis for not being able to grow one, but the elders say NO simply because itÂ’s “cultural”. You mean like that?

Yes, this type of report will come up time and time again but the JW puppets will not believe it, ever.
Of course the Elder puppets know it's all true but they keep it all secret as far as possible. 
People like Tom tom, and others that think the GB and the Org are wonderful. 
Let's get to the nitty gritty. THE GOVERNING BODY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR MAKING THE RULES. THEREFORE THE GOVERNING BODY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL THIS ABUSE BECAUSE OF THE RULES THEY HAVE MADE. 
Unless that GB are removed and replaced then the JW org has no chance in being clean. 
What does the scripture say.  That Wicked slave will be thrown out into the street and that is where the gnashing of his teeth will be. 
Well soon may it happen to them. 
 

So, to those that would criticize me for only talking about the JW Org, then it seems what i am doing is correct. 
As to whether you agree with my comments that is another matter. 
Thank you Admin for your comment especially this line.
"This club is about JW’s and @The Librarian is the main moderator."  
So, with no disrespect to a certain 'space traveller' my only interest in the issues I raise are JW's, JW Org, the Governing Body of same, the Child abuse problem within that Org and some of its teachings.
Those are the reasons I visit this forum. I do not wish to know what Muslims do, what Catholics do or what the rest of the world does.  
I do like it that Tom recognises that the JW Org 'bosses' are not happy with the congregants investigating / researching / enquiring for information or discussion outside of JW material. 
I would like to make something clear however. I do think the teaching programme / bible studies / door to door ministry are good ideas when done properly. So I am not wholeheartedly anti-JW Org as some may think. 
The problem begins when the GB / Org starts to misinterpret Bible teachings, and adding things to it. When it changes a meaning of a scripture three of more times over a few years, then it not only makes the GB and Org look silly, but it lessons the confidence that a person has in the GB being guided by God. And when it completely changes a viewpoint on something then one has to question any authority of the GB.
It would not have helped Noah if he was half way through building the Ark, then God said to him,  'Hang on Noah, something is wrong here, dimensions need altering, take it all apart and start again'. .... This is what the GB do, and they call it 'new light'.  
Hankulan, from what i have seen here, there are people that defend the JW Org as well as people that find fault with it.  And if you find that there are many others that criticize the JW Org, then ask yourself why are they doing so. Also, look deep into the allegations that i and others make, you may find that these allegations are true. Then you will have your reason as to why we make our comments.  
 

damn typical fashion!!!! UGH, distracted this from the main topic by means of the shell game. 
You're good mr gone away, very good. I bit. 
 
Back to our regular scheduled program. 
 
 
So which is it? Alliance with the Bible on who is still here after Armageddon or the wt and its publications? 

I believe it is new.
it's on the website

Pure Worship of Jehovah—Restored at Last! is the title of this book
 
 

It is possible to understand your position. You are person who cannot stand some situations and emotions in other people life. Perhaps you think how they alone are "guilty" for theirs problems. It can be and it does not have to be so.  
Please explain how do you "survive" Mr. Lett and some other JWTV presenter who "crying" for money on behalf of WT Corporation? :)))

You are entitled to your opinion and thank you for adding it. 
I suppose all the Victims of Child Abuse in the JW Org are cry babies to you also. 
If all JW's 'tried to live according to the bible' then there would not be over twenty years worth of CHILD ABUSE  within the Org. 
I see you are using the devil's tactics, working on emotions.