Shiwiii

we are getting off on a whole different topic. 

quite true, but this is just an exercise for thought.
It ultimately destroy's the logic of interpreting Romans 6:23 and 6:7 the way that jws do. 

As to what part is it what I said here that is of confusion to you? To be brief, if a sinner dies, he would no longer be able to sin, for a dead man cannot do anything at this point, a dead man cannot sin at all as he would in life, however any sin he has done when he or she use to walk the earth, they'll have to answer for, for because of God's Purpose, His Will, His Order, such ones would indeed be brought back to be judged, this goes for all men, even those who commit suicide in regards to the situation of as to why they did so to begin with.
Jesus died so that man can believe in him. For God his Father, is spoken of as loving the world, that is, the world of mankind in need of redemption from sin, the very reason the sacrifice was in play here, we know this because of John 1:29, as with any verse that connects to this verse via reference.
Of course there are those who reject him, but you must take into account even those who reject him end up turning back around, thus accepting the Christ and accepting that he is Lord and believing that the God of the Christ raised him [Jesus] from the dead, for God wants all kinds of men to be saved to gain salvation and to endure until the conclusion of the End Times and the Day of God's Judgement that will be unleashed to those who strongly reject what is true and those who contend against God's Word, those who assume and or think such that is being asked is burdensome when such is to be done.
Even with Jesus' sacrifice we are to maintain faith for it is something that is a hard fight to contend for it, according to the slave of the Christ, of which I professed before in what was said in Jude 3.
Romans 6:23 isn't being misused here. Death itself is a sin, or as the Bible puts it, the sting of Death is sin, and to us of mankind, such a thing will continue to creep on to us until Death is done away with for good.
When someone dies, mainly if someone is rejecting the truth, he/she will have to answer to God in front of the White Throne, even should that person take his or her life willfully depending on the situation, some, who do take their life although the act is indeed a sin, such ones will have to answer for God still, and as I said before, God is a God of mercy.
Like I said, the reason why suicide is viewed as a sin by most is because of what the Law in the Torah stated about murder, taking a life, thus committing murder, mainly if it is done so in a situation that is not the best, is sin, be it if you take the life of others and or yourself, granted that life itself is indeed a gift from God, that being said, such things usually depends on the the individual and as to the reason as to why the act was committed.
Other than that, this view has been around for a while, predating all of us, hence the very reason I mentioned City of God.
In the end, no one can escape judgement, for every decision we make, mainly if some are in the wrong, we will have to answer for and God will be the judge of that.

Oh...I see.
A few alternatives to the usual "wages of sin is death"
"Sin pays off with death" CEV
"For sin pays its wage--death" GNT
"For the payoff of sin is death" NET
"But the product of sin is death" Aramaic
Along with:
"for he who has paid the penalty of death stands absolved from his sin." Rom 6:7 (Weymouth)
Seems to indicate that death is indeed the penalty for sin. This was experienced by the first sinners I believe, as they were warned it would. Of course, the scriptures indicate that even now, those who are dead (in sin) can be made alive spiritually thanks to the atonement of Christ's sacrifice, thus enabling a reconciliation with God through him.
But it is apparent that the power of Christ's sacrifice reaches even into the grave in that "neither death nor life.....will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Rom.8:38-39. And "God elevated him to the place of highest honor and gave him the name above all other names, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth," Ph.2:9-10.
So for me, sin results in death, figuratively, spiritually, and literally. Life, whilst originally a gift from God dependent on obedience, is still a gift from God, dependent on acceptance of the atoning power of Christ' sacrifice.
As for who will or will not receive the benefits thereof, including victims of suicide, there is "one decreed by God to be judge of the living and the dead. To him all the prophets bear witness, that everyone putting faith in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name." Acts 10:42-43. The one decreed by God is best left to the execution of his assigned duties in this regard.

“Dear friends, don’t let this one thing escape you: With the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day”. 2 Pet 3:8
All confusion is based on the erroneous teaching of when the symbolic Thousand Year reign of Christ takes place.  From the day he took his throne alongside God, he has been ruling.
This is the declaration of the Lord
to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies your footstool.”
2 The Lord will extend your mighty scepter from Zion.
Rule over your surroundingenemies.  Ps 110:1,2
“Then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father, when he abolishes all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he puts all his enemies under his feet.”  1 Cor 15:24,25
“He is now waiting until his enemies are made his footstool.”  Heb 10:13
Since the first century, each anointed under Christ must personally defeat the enemy, Satan.  Those proven faithful, sacrifice their life for Truth, in imitation of their Master.  John 12:24,25; Rom 6:5; Rev 6:9-11  Satan has demanded to sift each one as “wheat” to prove each one’s faithfulness to God.   Rev 2:10; Luke 22:31
Rev 20:4 – “Then I saw thrones, and people seated on them who were given authority to judge. I also saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and who had not accepted the mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.”
( Luke 15:24,32; Rom 6:11; Eph 2:1-6; Rev 5:9,10; [Rev 3:1])
Rev 20:4 is speaking of those anointed since Christ who successfully defeated whatever Satan threw at them during their physical lifetime.  But, during the last days, Satan crafts a new plan to take down the remaining anointed, the last of the “woman’s seed”.  Rev 12:17
The abyss/Hades is darkness, a place of “not perceiving”.  When Satan was “chained” and thrown into the abyss by Christ, he had no ability to fabricate his last scheme to come against the remnant.  He was “restrained” for the symbolic “thousand years”. Rev 20:3  When let loose from this restraint, he then instigated his “Beasts” of Revelation that CONQUER the “saints”/”holy ones”.  THEY receive the “mark of the Beast on their foreheads or their hands.” 
“He (Beast/false prophet)  causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.” Rev 13:16,17
Buy or sell what?  Spiritual provisions or “wormwood”, issued from the mouth of false prophet/beast, and “sold” under the name of the Beast. Rev 8:10,11  The price?  One’s dedication and “worship” to this powerful, most amazing Beast of Rev 13:1,3,4
So, the “beast and its image” of Rev 20:4 doesn’t make an appearance until after the thousand year reign of Christ is completed, and who’s existence culminates during the Great Tribulation. Jesus pointed out how difficult the time period would be for God’s “elect”. 
“For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.”  Matt 24:21-25
“The beast was given a mouth to utter boasts and blasphemies. It was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. 6 It began to speak blasphemies against God: to blaspheme His name and His dwelling—those who dwell in heaven. 7 And it was permitted to wage war against the saints and to conquer them. It was also given authority over every tribe, people, language, and nation. 8 All those who live on the earth will worship it, everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the bookof life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.”
The “dwelling” of God is His Temple - the anointed ones – 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22
 The Beast image is directed by a false prophet/Harlot who “breathes” life into the image. (footnote in NKJV says, “or spirit or life” which equates to a “spirit-directed” image) God’s people succumb to the delusion.  2 Thess 2:9-12   Watchtower calls these Beasts, Christendom and the United Nations, but the UN has not “conquered” the “dwelling” of God.  Every one of the anointed, from all tribe, people, language, and nation have not lost their life for their “testimony to Christ”.  They bear the mark of the Beast.  Also, everyone else under the Beast, from all tribe, people, language and nation are under the “authority” of the Beast.  They must obey, or be “killed”.
Those who resist the Beast and its false prophet, although decreed as spiritually “dead”, come alive in Christ if they choose to listen and follow, God’s Son.   
“Then I was given a measuring reed like a rod, with these words: “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count those who worship there. 2 But exclude the courtyard outside the temple. Don’t measure it, because it is given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months. 3 I will grant my two witnesses authority to prophesy for 1,260 days, dressed in sackcloth.” 4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.  Rev 11:1-4
“When they finish their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war on them, conquer them, and kill them.” Rev 11:7
How does the beast come out of the abyss?  Satan, who has been let loose from the abyss, brings with him, his fabrication to deceive. He uses the false prophet/beast of Rev 13:11 to introduce it.  From that point, the Beast from the (“Gentile”) Sea (Rev 13:1) takes on a life of its own as “spirit-directed”.    Rev 13:1,2; Rev 9:1-6
“But after three and a half days, the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet. Great fear fell on those who saw them. 12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” They went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies watched them.”  Rev 11:11,12
These are the anointed who successfully overcome the Beast.  This can happen while still living on the earth.  Heb 12:1; 12:22; Rev 5:9,10
Rev 20:5 – “The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.”
All who “worship”/revere the “inspired” Beast, are not written in the Lamb’s Book of life.  Rev 13:8
The book of Revelation exposes the end time assault to come against God’s anointed servants under the “woman covenant”.  Rev 1:1; Gal 4:26; Rev 12:3,4
Gog and Magog give other characteristics of the two Beasts.  They surround the “encampment of the saints”/anointed holy people, who have been deceived by the devil.    Rev 20:9    The "saints" are found "gathered" in the Watchtower.  No other alternate "organization" or leaders have the ability to know who they might be.
“The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet are, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”  Rev 20:10
There is no escape from the “lake of fire and sulfur” to deceive twice.  This event could not occur after Armageddon, and after a “thousand year” time of peace, since it is the anointed “saints” that Rev 20:9 addresses.  The faithful, sealed anointed will be ruling with Christ in God’s Kingdom after Armageddon, which brings an end to all evil, and of Satan.
Again, 1 Cor  15:24,25 - “Then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father, when he abolishes all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he puts all his enemies under his feet.”   
The end time tribulation is all based on deceit – what we spiritually want to perceive. If we “conquer” the deceit, our heart truly desires to know and walk in truth. This is how we gain life.  We must overcome the deception, “wormwood”, slavery to men, all falsehoods, and the fear that men have more say over our spirituality than Christ himself. Dan 8:11
Leaving all of that behind is what Jesus’ faithful disciples had to do in the first century and what is happening to those who are "killed" - disfellowshipped - by the Beast.
“Therefore, everyone who will acknowledge me before others, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever denies me before others, I will also deny him before my Father in heaven. 34 Don’t assume that I came to bring peace on the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to turn
a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
36 and a man’s enemies will be
the members of his household.
37 The one who loves a father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; the one who loves a son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever doesn’t take up his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Anyone who finds his life will lose it, and anyone who loses his life because of me will find it.”
The faithful are killed by the Wild Beast because of their testimony about Jesus Christ and his glory – not “Jehovah”, and not “Jehovah’s organization”.  Rev 12:11,17;19:10;20:4  They stand only for him and the Father.  John 4;23,24
How difficult it is for JWs to realize their love for the organization – the Wild Beast -  takes precedence over any love they may have for Christ. 
John 16:13,14; 17:1-5,24
 
 

Well is quite simple, is not in their priorities and interest plus if all of us knew what went on in the whole royal commisions the great crowd will down to a small crowd, the biggest dissapointment i saw on TV while i was following this was elders admitting of not knowing why they were called in for questioning amd also one of GB answering to a sinple question as "is the GB the only channel that God speaks through in now days" and answering "that will be naive for me to say that" would have a huge influence if this will publicised in JWorg

I agree with the Scriptures posted here.
If  I was a cowboy from Texas or Oklahoma and would show up at Bethel in Levis and a Western style dress shirt and cowboy boots,  would  I be turned away?
My guess is YES.
Do you think Prince or Michael Jackson in their "native costume" dress  clothes would have been turned away?
My guess is NO.

How do you know this to be true? Because they told you it was? 

But is this God's rules or MAN'S ?

Bahahahaha, Nice deflection. I think you are dodging the topic because you know what I said is true, you just can't accept it. 

Are you both serious? Really? 
You mean to tell me that you cannot see the similarities between passing the plate and requesting money? Had this come from the Catholic church encouraging their members to fork over some money, you two would be going over some dialog in your minds of how jws are so much better because the jws don't do that. The fact of the matter is ALL churches do it. They all do it for the same exact reasons stated here and elsewhere, to cover expenses. Do some spend it frivolously and are wasteful? Sure. Is any one group innocent in their dealings with the peoples money 100% of the time, probably not. Are there some who try to use the money responsibly? No doubt. But to look down your nose at another group while ignoring your own actions is the perfect definition of hypocrisy.    

“Whoever drinks from the water that I will give him will never get thirsty at all, but the water that I will give him will become in him a fountain of water bubbling up to impart everlasting life.”—JOHN 4:14. nwt
 
This morning i found post on my g+. And inside picture someone put this verse. And some sort of idea, "new light" came to my stupid head.
WT explaining that according to verses in Bible "faithful and discreet slave" is: 
10 Who, then, is the faithful and discreet slave? That slave is made up of a small group of anointed brothers who directly prepare and give out spiritual food during Christ’s presence. https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/402013533
 
Well, according to Jesus, His Water will become Fountain in YOU, as single person. If You drinks from His Water You became source for spiritual truth, food, water. 
By this verse in John something is very wrong in WT explanation how only "small group of anointed BROTHERS" (not sisters) aka GB are the only one who giving food, water that leads to Life. 
 
PS   Jesus told to Samaritan woman this words about source and water and life. He offered her to drink this everlasting water and as result of that, she will become source of water (without need to go to "fds" for spiritual food). Mutual encourage and sharing of this fountain water is not under restriction or obligation inside particular organized religion requirements .
 
 
 
 

I think you are right, honestly. With the broadcast by mr. splaine, or it could have been mr lett, stating they had more going out then coming in, you just might be seeing the beginning  of the end......Armageddon of the wt. 

Which scripture do you have in mind to support this? I'm just curious. 

The wt IS offering children to Molech by means of allowing pedophiles to hide within. 
It is super simple, report abuse to the police........period.
Quit trying to be above the law. 
In fact we are to pray for those in charge, government leaders/police/mayors/etc. 
1 Timothy 2:1 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, 2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way.

you are correct John. 
Not only that but the continuous payment on building loans to wt headquarters after those loans have been paid back to the bank in full by the wt.  

So what you are saying is that its ok because it is the wt doing it for economic reasons and its not ok for other groups to do it for economic reasons. Gotcha.......sheesh. You're speaking out of both sides of your mouth. 
 
no problem at all from me about what jws want to do with their money and time. 
The problem I have is, the hypocritical stance of doing the same thing, but yet condemning others for the same practices. 
that is pure speculation, unless you have some reports of Hindu money practices. what isn't speculation is the numerous court cases that the wt is fighting across the world with your funds. I know you don't care about those issues nor that your money is being used in this way, but it is the facts. 

lets try this another way. According to the publications produced by the wt:
What group solely has any scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system? 
 
What group must one identify with to gain salvation?
 
If we left a group and lost the hope of life in God's new world because of leaving this group, what group would that be? 

Are you both serious? Really? 
You mean to tell me that you cannot see the similarities between passing the plate and requesting money? Had this come from the Catholic church encouraging their members to fork over some money, you two would be going over some dialog in your minds of how jws are so much better because the jws don't do that. The fact of the matter is ALL churches do it. They all do it for the same exact reasons stated here and elsewhere, to cover expenses. Do some spend it frivolously and are wasteful? Sure. Is any one group innocent in their dealings with the peoples money 100% of the time, probably not. Are there some who try to use the money responsibly? No doubt. But to look down your nose at another group while ignoring your own actions is the perfect definition of hypocrisy.    

what do you want me to do about your struggle? 

hear hear! 
 
 
Only problem is that:
"you're gonna make Jehovah sad"
"you're going to bring reproach on Jehovah's organization" 
"you're going beyond what is written"
"listen to us, even if it sounds bats#it crazy"
 
 
 

It's interesting that the org uses man-made laws when it supports their control, but when those same laws hurt them it's either Satanic or the work of opposers.

First off, Witnesses basically believe in an immortal soul, though they would be offended at that statement. They get around the issue by calling it "Jehovah's memory". An instance of this is in the Watchtower (w07 11/1 p. 26 par. 16) where it says:
So, for example, let's say that some pioneer elder who has fifteen kids (that he's successfully raised in the 'Truth') dies tragically while doing business territory and helping an old lady cross the street. He's pretty much guaranteed a spot on the ole list, so he gets 'remembered' by Jehovah and his wife and kids.
Time passes, Great Tribulation comes and goes, Armageddon happens with lots of screaming and pain and clergymen getting crushed by collapsing steeples. New System arrives. (Geez! Took long enough!) Now it's resurrection time.
So Jehovah consults his list and sees our elder's name (we'll call him GA for 'Good Associate' and decides it's time to bring GA back.
So what happens? Does Jehovah scrounge around for all of GA's molecules and put them together again? Nope, that part of him is gone (and potentially being used in other humans - Ewwww!!!). The Watchtower explains (w00 7/15 p. 16 par. 2):
So Jehovah doesn't need to search for anything - that's great news! He can just sink a shovel in the dirt and get all he needs to build a hunky bod for GA. He gets to work and makes our buddy a body.
So now God is standing there with a lifeless assembled corpse in front of him. What's next? Oh, right. We need crank this thing up and get it started. This is where it gets interesting, and complicated... and confusing... The Reasoning book (rs p. 333) says:
So GA gets infused with his own personal identity. What is that? I don't know. No, seriously, I don't know. It's not his body, that's already been discussed. Is it his memories? No, because that's just GA's memories, that's not GA, you can download them into anyone or everyone. Is it his personality? That's not GA either, that's just wiring. What the heck is GA?!?
To put this into perspective, let's put ourselves in GA's wife's shoes. Here is her resurrected hubby, young and hot, and just like she remembered (she's hot too btw). But how does she know it's him?  How does she know it's not just some conglomeration of molecules that was downloaded with GA's memories and wired to act like GA? She doesn't! And GA's no help either, because all he can remember is the good things about being GA. So neither of them know if GA is the real deal. They're both useless!
And to really complicate things the Insight book (it-2 p. 786) says:
Wait! What?!? Now, to be fair, this sentence is in a paragraph about those with the creepy heavenly calling. But it specifically says that the soul is different than the body - it's the person, apart from the body. In fact, it sounds a lot different than just being in Jehovah's memory. If I take GA's soul and put it back into some body (any body) - that's GA? Apparently, but don't ask me to explain, cuz' I don't get it. To me, it sounds like something survived when GA's body didn't, and when that got implanted in a new body it became new GA.
This brings us back to Witnesses believe in an immortal soul. They really really want to believe that their dead loved ones will live again. But they also believe that there isn't anything that actually is the person, just memories in Jehovah's head. In that case, they can never be sure that their resurrected loved ones are who they used to be. This would terrify them if they ever took the time to think about it. But thankfully we can rest assured that Witnesses won't think about this and therefore we won't ever have to talk about GA ever again.

about as difficult to get most jw congs to report child abuse in the first place. 

As reported by the Australian Royal Commission on Child Abuse  No. 29 ... we still have the record of over 5,000 cases by 1,006 perpetrators.
STILL ... almost completely unknown by most Jehovah's Witnesses.