Shiwiii

I can appreciate and understand COMPLETELY your position. It is also the reason why I decided to cancel my subscription to participate in the armed forces. Your point is very valid and your perspective is a correct one. I too have a different view of that exact structure and what it fosters. 
I fully acknowledge that the leadership of military organizations is chocked full of folks who have no business being in the positions they are in. It was my personal experiences that led me to reject that form of employment. I worked in many of the places that the "brass" did because of my abilities and training, I was secure comm and was slotted to become one of the elite. What I could not handle and agree with were the very things you mention. I could not continue to support an organization that deliberately went against morality to save face for a few, all the while putting those under them in harms way because of it. So I left. It really is no difference in the corporate world, except your are not there to protect anything but the higher ups bonus and no one is in harms way. 
When this philosophy is attached my eternal destiny, and not just my paycheck, things take a very different course of action. I do not throw my hat in ANY ring! Do I have fellowship? yes. Do I have those whom I seek for help on Spiritual matters? yes. Are they the end all be all and no questions when it comes to their interpretation? no. I cannot allow someone else to take the rudder out of my hands on something so important as this. Am I perfect and have all of the answers? no, but who is the one to answer to God when that day comes? Me and only me. So when I see organizations, such as the wt, make such high demands upon their members without the ability for them to question or disagree, I have to speak up about it. 
I am no prophet nor fortuneteller, but I strongly believe you will never see this happen, no one will. The reason why is the mistakes being made are far to serious and underhanded to be forgotten or dismissed to the educated mind. As our world progresses so does common knowledge (we hope), and it is only a matter of time before the truth about the "truth" comes out in such a way that the society/wt goes the way of the dodo. People are only as stupid as they allow themselves to be. If people choose to hide their head in the sand and ignore what is really going on, they will be ignorant and accept whatever is being fed to them. The history of this org and their claims and practices  should be enough, but at this point it isn't. One must now look into the past and compare the current teachings, if the material isn't lost or changed, and truly see if God is backing their actions. I have researched these things and cannot believe that God has anything to do with this org. Just like you said "All civilizations grow and evolve, and the casualties are ENORMOUS.   The United States of America has committed innumerable sins and evils in it's pursuit of righteousness, equity and Justice ... and is continuing to do so." , but none of the civilizations were the answer to our eternal destiny. It is a growth process, but you can only grow so very far by tyranny. Tyranny like those of the Pharaohs and Pharisees is what we are looking at within the wt from my view.  
 
 

I've read some interesting information that has leaked from the wt through various sources and was curious what this group thought. It has to do with the plethora of known child molesters and the covering of those individuals. I'm sure this isn't too much of new news as we have already experienced the ARC (Australian Royal Commission) and the position made by gb Geoffrey Jackson and the folks in charge in Australia. From what I have heard from the average jw is that the ARC was made all just made up lies by apostates to make the org look bad. Well here comes round two? three? The evidence is pretty damaging to the way in which the org cares for its children and their staunch position to keep the org in a good light regardless of who may be collateral damage. While I won't post the actual link to what has been distributed, it is quite easy to find. Look up Faithleaks and then the latest press release. 
Now I am quite sure there are going to be some here, quite a few actually, who would rather ignore things like this instead of actually finding out if in fact it is true or not. I don't find that in any way unusual from jws actually. When someone is told not to question the answers given, only listen-obey-and be blessed, then the only ones who will actually question those answers are those who actually care about others. After all, isn't that what we are commanded to do by Jesus? Care for others and you would yourself. This is why I am posting this, because if these things were constantly being brought forth about an organization I belonged to, I could not dismiss the claims that ring very similar from country to country. I would have to find out more.  Is this all just apostate lies all around the world made up by people who left the org, or could there be some truth to it? Also, its not like there is a single organization on this planet that is without its faults or bad people who reside within the org, but it is more about how the org deals with these matters. 
So the simple question posed in this thread is do you approve of the way the wt handles abuse (child, domestic, sexual, etc.)? Do you know how the wt deals with such cases? 

Dear Cheepcheep, thank you for your polite response. Although you are trying to look at the organization’s “tacking” objectively, you have not mentioned the light of Christ in your comment.  Each attempt by the Watchtower to “tack” and teach it as truth, which we know they do, corrupts the Word of God.  I am sorry, but there really is no excuse that can be made by their “tacking” example.  You covered a lot of subjects in your paragraph, in which I personally feel are errors in their teaching; perhaps more suitable for another topic.  Appreciatively, Librarian always keeps me in check.
“Therefore, since we have this ministry because we were shown mercy, we do not give up. 2 Instead, we have renounced secret and shameful things, not acting deceitfully or distorting the word of God, but commending ourselves before God to everyone’s conscience by an open display of the truth. 3 But if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 In their case, the god of this age has blinded the minds of the unbelievers to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For we are not proclaiming ourselves (as the Watchtower does) but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’s sake. 6 For God who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of God’s glory in the face of Jesus Christ.  2 Cor 4:1-6
I hope you can see that ChristÂ’s light in the heart of a righteous one, is the knowledge of God; and is accurate knowledge to feed sheep appropriately and correctly.
You said, “It does not take a direct line, but must tack or zig zag back n forth at the angle of the direction of the wind or spirit. This is very well and reasonable if true”
I suppose Wt. uses these words of Christ:  “The wind blows where it pleases, and you hear its sound, but you don’t know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”  (John 3:8)…this doesn’t mean the Spirit takes a faithful anointed one down any wrong path (which failed doctrines – are), as if to teach them a lesson.    It is the Spirit – “breath” -  of God/Christ working in an individual, leading them in knowledge, and as God wills.  Examples of this spirit wind:
“He said to me, "Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man. Say to it: This is what the Lord GOD says: Breath, come from the four winds and breathe into these slain so that they may live! " Ezek 37:9
“Suddenly a sound like that of a violent rushing wind came from heaven, and it filled the whole house where they were staying. Then they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in different tongues, as the Spirit enabled them”  Acts 2:2,4
And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.”  John 20:22
God’s Spirit has not filled Watchtower’s sails and led them in a zig zag pattern through the years.  His ways are perfect.  The tacking theory puts the blame on God for men’s false predictions.  There are ample Bible references telling us to keep on the straight path, the only path, which should warn us NOT to fall for Watchtower’s tacking analogy.  Ps 27:11; 2 Pet 2:15; Jer 31:9; Prov 4:26; Isa 26:7; Prov 15:21; Luke 3:5; Heb 12:13; John 1:23; Prov 11:5; Ps 119:128; 107:7
When I posted my above comment elsewhere, this was the response from two (I believe both were) ex-Witnesses.
“The problem with the JWs use of Prov.4:18, ‘light getting brighter’, is, it is a misuse. Plucked and distorted from it’s true context. They pluck it from scripture and place it in an illegitimate relationship to excuse previous ‘misunderstandings’ of Bible prophecy, passages. They force fit it in use to self-pardon wrong and false prophetic summations and acclamations. By their application as such, they narrow this passage down to nothing more than a generic excuse scripture, missing its true meaning.—..........—Christ said ‘I am the light of the world’ ‘I am the lamp’. In Leviticus Ch.24 the people themselves were to bring flour and oil for the use in the tabernacle. It personifies a savior, Christ. Christ said ‘I am the bread and light’. Our light gets brighter in our continuing relationship with Christ and our Father. The whole context in Prov. chapter 4 is about relationship and the paths of righteousness vs. the path of wickedness.—..........—JWs have relegated it to something far less, missing it’s deeper meaning and structure. They have pawned it off as nothing more than an excuse passage.”
"Flour and oil". I was just thinking about that yesterday, when considering the widow who fed Elijah, with, flour and oil. Jesus told us in John ch.4, that the worship that results in life, is done with spirit and truth. The "bread from heaven" is Jesus Christ, the "way, truth, and life". I see the flour, as a symbol for truth.
The Bible uses golden oil, to symbolize the spirit. Kings and priests were anointed with the holy anointing oil, and since Christ, there is an anointing with spirit. That spirit combines with the truths of God's word, resulting in life. From the spirit and truth given to us, we are expected to prepare an offering to God... the "fruit of our lips" that confesses what we have received. Those who do this, are given more... the real meaning of light, getting brighter.
Yes maÂ’am, and our very lives are confessions of fruitage in that path of righteousness. The light in our relationship grows brighter and stronger, the love deepens.
Unless we step away from Watchtower and its “new light” we can’t see the absurdity of the list of “new light” dates; which are only part of changed, as well as faulty doctrines (“faithful and discreet slave”, who are the “great crowd”, the role of the “royal priesthood”, the “good news”, etc. – Yes! )
I do hope you see this.

Videos for bethelites to come out on the 27th. Stay tuned

WOW!
I hope you have a voice to text software program like "Dragon Naturally Speaking", ( version 12 is excellent!).
That is a LOT of stuff to type by hand, that nobody will read.

Hear, my son, and receive my sayings,
And the years of your life will be many.
 I have taught you in the way of wisdom;
I have led you in right paths.
 When you walk, your steps will not be hindered,
And when you run, you will not stumble.
Are these rejected dates the way of wisdom? If they contained light, why are they not kept as a light source?
 539 A.D.
1780
1798
1799
1829
1840
1844
1846
1872
1874
1878
1880
1881
1891
1906
1910
1914
1915
1917
1918
1920
1921
1925
1926
1928
1932
1935
1940s
1951
1975
2000

"All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not." Watchtower 2013 Nov 15 p.20

What are you going to call it when it is true?   Spiritual food? 
No need for them to be THAT stupid, its already been declared that jws should follow the direction no matter how stupid. 
"All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not." Watchtower 2013 Nov 15 p.20

Famous Christopher Hitchens speech where he said, 
"It is the wish to be a slave. It is the desire that there be an unalterable, unchallengeable, tyrannical authority who can convict you of thought crime while you are asleep, who can subject you to total surveillance around the clock every waking and sleeping minute of your life, before you're born and, even worse and where the real fun begins, after you're dead. A celestial North Korea. Who wants this to be true? Who but a slave desires such a ghastly fate?"
 
They are telling people how to SLEEP.
Incredible.

here is a nice comment or two made in the video: 
 
"The male animal has no season in which he is not willing to engage in the breeding act"
"a brother sits on the lap of one of his male friends..." - Gary Breaux

Videos for bethelites to come out on the 27th. Stay tuned

When I see one walk into Bethel with a pillow, blanket and a dirty mag, and be totally self satisfying.....THAT is a Bethelite. 
 
Seriously, how weird does it have to be there for the wt to have to make videos about self pleasure, one for the guys and one for the girls. Now that is a leaked video, pillowgate 2018 brought to you by wt. Can't wait for the sign language version to come out. 

When I see one walk into Bethel with a pillow, blanket and a dirty mag, and be totally self satisfying.....THAT is a Bethelite. 
 
Seriously, how weird does it have to be there for the wt to have to make videos about self pleasure, one for the guys and one for the girls. Now that is a leaked video, pillowgate 2018 brought to you by wt. Can't wait for the sign language version to come out. 

Oh dear Dee. This looked as complication to me :)) To make other illustration. Old Jew people as nation are physical and spiritual continuation from time of Moses until this day today.
Jehovah Witnesses have its beginning in 1935 as some kind of continuation of Bible Students (from 1879), because WTBTS is/was legal Mother of both group. By that we can talk about some sort of "physical and spiritual" continuation. 
But JW or WT have no connection with 1 century Jesus followers as CONTINUATION. Talking about "spiritual" connection and  continuation in such way is in field of speculation and wishes. :)) 

Here is another:
Matthew 24:24-27  "For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man."
Clearly here we are told that there will come some who proclaim that Jesus returned and you just didn't see Him, because He came invisibly. That just isn't true and doesn't line up with the Bible which clearly states His return WILL be visible. 

my question was about the celebration of Jesus birth, no matter what day it is done. Since Romans 14 tells us that each of us decides in his or her own heart on what day is above another, as long as it is to the glory of God, then Colossians 2 tells us that no one is to judge us by it. I wanted to know if you see it that way as well? or is there some other scripture that you believe overrides this? Or am I just wrong? 
That is what I was asking. 

Huh?
 
Then what you are really saying is that you think Jesus wants you to remain loyal to pagan rituals and rules? You made an oath while pagan, to which you agree is to the side of evil, and you think Jesus wants you to keep that oath? I really don't think you believe that, instead I think you made stuff up to try and look good, and now that you got caught, you have to keep up the pretending. 

hogwash and wishful thinking. If they in fact were a continuation of "spiritual" disciples, then they would have never deviated from what you claim is the "truth". They would have never celebrated Christmas nor worshiped Jesus. So your argument falls flat. You can try and spin with words, but it just doesn't add up. 

Ms DeeDee,
 
I’m not disputing that people can have a relationship with God, I’m saying that they did long before the JW religion came onto the scene. <><

Ms DeeDee,
 
It is amusing how you guys only quote those passages that show Jesus is fully man and there stop, thinking you have proved He is not God. The Bible shows many times that Jesus is worshipped! 
 
JWs claim Jesus is Michael the archangel, now note please how Michael the archangel does not have the authority to rebuke Satan. We see in Jude 9 that Michael must bridle his tongue, so to speak, before the foe of man. We read, “But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, ‘The Lord rebuke you!’” (Jude 9).
 
In contrast Jesus rebuked the devil to his face (Matt 4:10). Since Michael could not rebuke the devil in his own authority and Jesus could (and did), then Jesus and Michael cannot be the same person! <><

Ms DeeDee,
 
Maybe you have been fed false information or you made this all up?

So what you mean is that by knowing that Gonzalo Campo molested kids and making him an elder and putting him with other kids, is just a byproduct of doing God will?
Also, keeping him in the cong keeps him from slipping out and into another one? 
 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-2816630/13-5M-award-Jehovahs-Witnesses-molest-case.html
Isn't this a job for the police? Why is it discouraged to report? Oh and don't give me that BS about "we don't discourage" yes they do. Those "elders" are not even qualified to hold a conversation about psychology let alone actually try and do anything about abuse. 
 
 Keep drinking that glass of water with the drop of poison in it. 

Sadly, you are correct. 
What does that say about the acceptance of such policies and practices? To me it says that the avg jw may not like it, but has to swallow it because the gb/wt says so. The silence is an indication to me of one of two things or both,  shame and/or ignorance. Remember the wt article where they said to accept what we say even if it sounds absurd and against your better judgement (I paraphrased the article)? Is this what they were talking about or is more to come? If this was it, then who in their right mind with ANY morals, biblical or not, can accept the way that the wt org handles abuse of any kind? 

I've read some interesting information that has leaked from the wt through various sources and was curious what this group thought. It has to do with the plethora of known child molesters and the covering of those individuals. I'm sure this isn't too much of new news as we have already experienced the ARC (Australian Royal Commission) and the position made by gb Geoffrey Jackson and the folks in charge in Australia. From what I have heard from the average jw is that the ARC was made all just made up lies by apostates to make the org look bad. Well here comes round two? three? The evidence is pretty damaging to the way in which the org cares for its children and their staunch position to keep the org in a good light regardless of who may be collateral damage. While I won't post the actual link to what has been distributed, it is quite easy to find. Look up Faithleaks and then the latest press release. 
Now I am quite sure there are going to be some here, quite a few actually, who would rather ignore things like this instead of actually finding out if in fact it is true or not. I don't find that in any way unusual from jws actually. When someone is told not to question the answers given, only listen-obey-and be blessed, then the only ones who will actually question those answers are those who actually care about others. After all, isn't that what we are commanded to do by Jesus? Care for others and you would yourself. This is why I am posting this, because if these things were constantly being brought forth about an organization I belonged to, I could not dismiss the claims that ring very similar from country to country. I would have to find out more.  Is this all just apostate lies all around the world made up by people who left the org, or could there be some truth to it? Also, its not like there is a single organization on this planet that is without its faults or bad people who reside within the org, but it is more about how the org deals with these matters. 
So the simple question posed in this thread is do you approve of the way the wt handles abuse (child, domestic, sexual, etc.)? Do you know how the wt deals with such cases? 

right there you just made my point, the first line you wrote. if they needed to change, then they DID NOT continue what the disciples started. You cannot claim they are a continuation and at the same time claim they deviated. Unless you believe that the first disciples got it wrong too.