AllenSmith

This is actually not the answer I expected. It's because Jesus is the Head of the congregation that I would think we'd know better. It's because we look to a spiritual Head of the congregation instead of physical men that we should know better.
(2 Timothy 2:16-19) 16 But reject empty speeches that violate what is holy, for they will lead to more and more ungodliness, 17 and their word will spread like gangrene. Hy·me·naeʹus and Phi·leʹtus are among them. 18 These men have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred, and they are subverting the faith of some. 19 Despite that, the solid foundation of God remains standing, having this seal, “Jehovah knows those who belong to him,” and, “Let everyone calling on the name of Jehovah renounce unrighteousness.” How are we obligated to believe something and we are obligated to reject it at the same time?
Today we also live in a time when the Governing Body has inherited a tradition that claimed that the resurrection has already occurred. You don't feel like as if you are required to test this doctrine and make sure before you begin believing it and promoting it yoursel?
 

I am so sorry @bruceq if you think such experiences would need turn someone sour and bitter. I am happy for all the experiences I've had in the organization, and a few eye-opening experiences can enhance our appreciation. A look at our history might cause some embarrassment now and then, but look what Jehovah has been able to accomplish. We look at the history of God's people in the Scriptures the same way. There is no reason for responding the way you describe. Such things are easily dismissed by those who focus on the more important things. There were legalistic men leading the Jewish religion in Jesus' day, and they bound heavy burdens on people, telling them that they must follow them. But Jesus said to go ahead and do whatever they tell you to do.
(Matthew 23:3-4) 3 Therefore, all the things they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds, for they say but they do not practice what they say. 4 They bind up heavy loads and put them on the shoulders of men, . . . We don't "grouse" about such burdens but come to love and respect all our brothers, because none of us expect perfection from each other. Besides, such burdens are to be considered as "nothing" among the true Christian congregation. Activity properly motivated is a joy. Our load is light and we find daily refreshment in spiritual things.
Do you ever see someone read about David and Uriah, and say, "Oh No! Now I'm bitter and sour"? Instead it makes us all the more aware that Jehovah can allow grave imperfections and still love us, and all the injustice that goes on in this life is easily made up for in Jehovah's timetable. Anything happening to us now can be overcome with Jehovah's help. Everything that ever happened to us, happened to us in the past. We should not be so self-centered as to think that we need to carry issues from the past and pretend that we still need to carry them today.
(Matthew 6:34) . . .So, never be anxious about the next day, for the next day will have its own anxieties. Sufficient for each day is its own badness. We can certainly LEARN from past problems, and we should. All things can be for our instruction and discipline. If we see lessons in these experiences, we can help others learn from those experiences and lessons.
On your points about doctrine, well that is just a philosophy that works for you. There are certain traditions that are strongly entrenched, and some of these can make the word of God invalid. If you lived in a congregation in the first century and the the body of elders taught that the resurrection had already occurred, you really think you would be obligated to believe it, just because the Bible said that you must be obedient to those taking the lead among you? Following the lead referred to imitating the faith of those whose examples strengthened faith. It meant following the instructions of those who took the lead in good works. When it comes to doctrine, we are required to use our powers of reason, we are required to test it, we are required to question, if we wish to be noble-minded. We have the Bible itself to speak in agreement about, not someone's specific or current interpretation. One of the reasons I bring up past issues with doctrines is so that we can remember the lessons learned. For example, you can replace the date 1914 with the date 1925, since the Governing Body taught that as an undeniable truth, even more sure than 1914. During those years are you really saying it was your obligation to believe and teach and promote 1925, or was it your obligation to "make sure of all things"?
I'm really interested in your answer to that question. Are you willing to respond to it?
 

I am completely missing how  the references you made have anything to do with what I knew as a comedy line off of an LP comedy album in the 1960s.   Of course, my entire sense of humor was formed in my early years by MAD Magazine, which upon refection had at least as many "Universal Truths" as most of the drivel today that is only self-aggrandizing fluff pieces.
But, a great piece of philosophy embedded itself into my psyche from MAD Magazine ....
"WHAT, ME WORRY?"
 

I disagree ..... I know that the filter I used on the front of my camera to photograph the Solar Eclipse today keeps out harmful visible and infrared light so it does not burn up the camera sensor.
When someone says the filter is actually used to prohibit the incandescent  screaming pain filled and raging demons from Hell from entering my camera, ( I suppose these hypothetical people would think the Sun is "Hell"?), I can assuredly tell you THAT IS NOT WHY I FILTER THE LIGHT, without getting into how EXACTLY the filter material is made to  do the "voodoo, that it do, so well".

21  "In that very hour he became overjoyed in the holy spirit and said: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved". Luke 10:21.   " but God chose the foolish things of the world to put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world to put the strong things to shame";  1 Cor. 1:27.   Gotta love the foolishness of Jehovah's Witnesses and their Governing Body to give us Jehovah's "revealed" interpretation rather than Christendom's haughty teachers and internet bloggers who promote and agree with them.    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/402015202   Hydrogen and Oxygen are both flammable. But when you put them together H2O then they can put fire out = UNITY. 1 Cor. 1:10 and Ps. 133, Rev. 7:17.   https://www.jw.org/en/publications/videos/respect-jehovahs-authority/#?insight[search_id]=2e3e97e6-1b34-49fb-bf32-013cebc18ec1&insight[search_result_index]=2    

What you quoted above your question has nothing to do with COJ. I don't even know what you mean by "this is what COJ" did. Did what?
I don't dismiss it at all. All I am saying is that I have looked at the evidence. And of course I don't think ANYTHING is centered on 587/6. It just happens to coincide with Nebuchadnezzar's 18th/19th year based on the same evidence you use for saying that Cyrus captured Babylon in 539. The evidence makes me think both these dates are correct, but nothing is "centered" on either of them.
There has been a kind of obsession with COJ here. I would guess that most of the persons who have studied the evidence never heard of COJ. I certainly don't need to rely on anything he said to understand the evidence for the Neo-Babylonian timeline.
 
What you list here are not questions. They are not even attached to any ideas. Going back to questions that people in the 1800's and early 1900's had is like saying we should ignore all the new and updated doctrines of the Watch Tower Society and just focus on things that Russell didn't understand. You remind me here of those JW opposers who just throw things out there like:
Pyramidology. Miracle Wheat? The Solon Society. 1844? Rose Ball. Russell's father married Russell's wife's mother?  There is no burden on any of us to get into those topics unless they are being used to make an actual point related to the topic.
So if you would like to ask a real question, or show what the evidence was and how the question from the 1800's was already resolved and why you think that the resolution isn't good enough, then we have something to discuss. But you seem unwilling to do anything more than tack up some cryptic pseudo-questions. I'm more concerned with why anyone would need to fall back on such weak tactics. I'm guessing that you already know the answer to that.
We will certainly miss you. I don't care about defending COJ or concerning myself with anyone's obsession about him. Pretending that these questions center around COJ seems disingenuous unless you truly don't know any better. 
I believe that you are aware than most all of the questions that early writers had on the subject have already been resolved. You probably know about books such as  Assyrian and Babylonian Chronicles, Albert Kirk Grayson, so I am sure you already know the answer. Still, if you really have a question, form it as one. Ask it! Say what you believe it would do to the timeline of the Neo-Babylonians. Show the evidence for it. No one can discuss a question that has no evidence for it. Or perhaps you are aware that the evidence is not valid.
That's why I gave that ridiculous analogy to what kind of proposal one can make with tablet data - assuming no one will check it against other evidence. I literally could propose that absurd theory that the Neo-Babylonian timeline is 40,000 years long. I can show some evidence for it, too. I could start with a tablet dated to Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year, and I can show another tablet dated to Nebuchadnezzar's 17th year. Then I merely assume that these were two different Nebuchadnezzar's and we therefore "know" that these two different kings must have reigned at least 37+17 years = 54 years. Then I find another tablet for Nebuchadnezzar's 17th year and assume that this is another Nebuchadnezzar and know that these three different Nebuchadnezzars ruled for at least a total of 37+17+17 = 71 years, and so on, ad infinitum, or at least until I've done this with 2,000 different tablets until I reach 40,000 years. Of course, we know that the Egibi data on many of these very same tablets will contradict all my supposed evidence.
This is why you have to show your question and/or your proposal and/or your evidence, or else people will know that you don't have anything serious.
Then ask it; no one is stopping you.

What is this nonsense about male egos?
"One man in a million may shout a bit. Now and then there's one with slight defects. 
One perhaps whose truthfulness you doubt a bit. But, by and large, we are a marvelous sex."
It is discouraging to me that you would so quickly write off an entire gender with – HEY!! BIG BOY, @James Thomas Rook Jr.!!. THAT’S ANOTHER SLAM AT THE GB YOU JUST MADE!!     
Oh YEAH?!
Oh YEAH?!
Oh YEAH?!
Field service, punk! Let's settle this in field service!! Working together - YOU and ME!! High Noon! Or are you too CHICKEN?!!

Yes, what Arauna said is true, humans LOVE to share their bits of knowledge, and if it’s something they’ve discovered themselves, so much more so. But it’s natural for us to do it and it’s not always bad, and nor are the motives behind it always bad.  I believe when Carl Olof Jonsson first “discovered” what he did when he researched the Gentile times, he had no bad motives. He obviously believed he had found the truth regarding that subject, and believed the WT didn’t realize they were in error. Put yourself in his shoes. Imagine how you would have felt if your “exciting” discovery was met with reservations almost bordering on indifference. His downfall was not the research, nor his discovery, nor his writing to the society about it, but his hurt ego, and pride that HIS discovery was not recognized.  We all want to be recognized for the effort we put into something, and he had put a lot of effort into it. It doesn’t feel good if someone tells you “you leave the thinking to us and you go and play in the sand”. However if someone tells you that they do not accept your opinion, that they see things differently, then humility should move us to let it go. No point in arguing or forcing our opinion on others. In the end the truth will eventually always come out.  But unfortunately he (COJ) was “trapped by his own cleverness”.
I like what one GB member said, that everyone is entitled to their opinion, and that we should respect that. We do it in FS all the time. Don’t we just love it when someone gives us the opportunity to explain some aspect of the Bible to them, but don’t we also just have to accept that it may not change their previously held opinion? It happens all the time, and we just have to move on.  Just think the many times you reasoned with someone on the trinity, and showed them the many scriptures to refute it. But we don’t stand there browbeating them until they see things our way do we?
Similarly in our brotherhood,  we are not all cookie cutter the same. We don’t all have the same opinion on everything. We may even have differing views on some aspects of the Truth. A very good friend of mine, a very spiritual and zealous sister, who doesn’t just talk the truth but she walks it too, does not believe in the new interpretation of the generation. She doesn’t go around trying tell others why not, I only know about it because we are very close. She doesn’t make a big deal out of it, it’s just her opinion after all, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I am sure there are many who do not believe in the overlapping generation and I am sure there are quite a few who are not convinced about 1914 either. Does that make them a “bad” Witness?  @Arauna if we were in the same congregation, and you knew me from here, would you avoid me? I am sure FS would be lovely with you, would you let me go with you, or would you say no, because I have my own opinion on the generation and 1914? I would really be interested to know your answer because your answer will show whether it really matters what I (and by extension others) believe regarding these subjects or not.

This was already covered previously in this thread, but I'll be happy to answer this again, too. Although I know that Ann also knows the Bible's answer to this topic, and it's always great to see anyone take the side of the Bible's advocate, here.
Yes we agree that Jesus knew more than Daniel did. And Jesus actually gives us the ACTUAL length of the "appointed times of the nations."
Here's a quote from the NWT of Luke 21:24, where Jesus spoke of the appointed times of the nations to trample Jerusalem, followed by a place where Jesus attached a specific length of time to these "appointed times of the nations."
(Luke 21:24) 24  . . . .into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled. (Revelation 11:2) . . .to the nations, and they will trample the holy city underfoot for 42 months. In case anyone missed the connection, let's try a paraphrase of both of them:
(Luke 21:24) 24  . . . .into all the nations; and Jerusalem, the holy city, will be trampled underfoot by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled. (Revelation 11:2) . . .to the nations, and Jerusalem, the holy city, will be trampled underfoot by the nations until 42 months, 1260 days, are fulfilled. Of course, you could argue that one said "Jerusalem would be trampled underfoot by the nations"  and the other one said "the holy city would be trampled underfoot by the nations."
(Nehemiah 11:1) . . .to live in Jerusalem, the holy city, . . (Isaiah 52:1) . . .Clothe yourself with strength, O Zion! Put on your beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city!. . . (Daniel 9:16) . . .may your anger and wrath turn away from your city Jerusalem, your holy mountain; . . Of course, you could argue that one said the city would be "trampled on by the nations" and the other said the city would be "trampled underfoot by the nations."
But the Watch Tower's Kingdom Interlinear Translation puts that argument to sleep. It's the exact same word. For ease of lookup I'll include the Strong's Dictionary reference for each
Luke 21:24 -- g3961   πατέω pateō  : to trample, crush with the feet Rev. 11:2   --  g3961   πατέω pateō  : to trample, crush with the feet In fact, the NWT prior to 2013 prided itself on always using a consistent English word or term to translate specific Greek words wherever they came up, but not here. There is not even a cross reference here, and no explanation in any Watch Tower publication about why this verse in Revelation 11:2 echoes Luke 21:24.    Revelation 11:2,3 is also an excellent citation for showing how 3.5 times = 42 months = 1,260 days, which could have been used in the "Bible Teach" book that was just quoted. But notice how this verse is always avoided for making that point. And Revelation 12:6,14 is used instead.
So one of the verses says there will be appointed times for the Gentiles trampling the holy city, and the other says that those appointed times were 42 months, or 1,260 days. The Watchtower must avoid this verse for any purpose except to apply it to a time from December 1914 as literal days so that they end in the spring of 1918. And what do we say happened in December 1914? Good question. Nothing! It just happens to be where 1,260 days lands if we work backwards from the spring of 1918!
 
 

On everything important, I agree.
 
I'm not claiming that we need to interpret it. After all the Bible already gave the interpretation. As you said before: "No need for another interpretation but thanks anyway." [Emphasis added.]
If the Bible says that it already gave us the interpretation, don't we risk adding to or taking away from the words of the scroll if we decide that we need another interpretation? And it can also lead to all kinds of scriptural problems and inconsistencies, which so far no one has responded to with scripture. (Changing the topic isn't the same thing, and, fwiw, I don't celebrate Christmas.) A mere claim that "the Governing Body" has all interpretational authority is probably fine for most of us. But when the scriptures demand that we search them and not accept "a letter as though from us" on the topic of the parousia, but suggests that we use "reason" my own conscience tells me that I have a responsibility to follow the Bible as best I can and follow the lead of the Governing Body as best I can, too. Wherever there might be a difference, however, I think we know who we should obey.
(2 Thessalonians 2:1, 2) 2 However, brothers, concerning the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ . . . we ask you 2 not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here. (Luke 21:8) . . .He said: “Look out that you are not misled, for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, . . . ‘The due time is near.’ Do not go after them. . . (Galatians 1:10) 10 Is it, in fact, men I am now trying to persuade or God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still pleasing men, I would not be Christ’s slave.
(Acts 5:29) . . .: “We must obey God as ruler rather than men.
 

All I see is JW.org's unsubstantiated assertions that there is a second fullfillment. So please, highlight the relevant part that gives Scriptural basis.

Blowing smoke then. You cannot make a robust defense, @bruceq. Perhaps someone else can help you. Anyone?

So, JWI,
Why don't you take your theories, very heavily tinged with preterism as they are, and communicate them to the Governing Body? Well, if we are to believe you, all you need to add in your submissions of your theories is that some of them are somewhat like Ray Franz' theories, and like other responsible, not-disfellowshipped Bethelite brothers' theories, but who were not disfellowshipped because they did not promulgate them. Oh, but here your situation is not quite like those other brothers' situation, because you do promulgate what you feel are theories that have greater merit than what are currently identified as the doctrines that are preached by Jehovah's Witnesses, preached with Jehovah's blessings! 
Tiago

Yes @JW Insider please refrain from spreading your light in public.
Keep it hidden from us simple folks like @TiagoBelager and me.....
Let our clergy class in New York do all the bible research for us..... preferably only speaking in Latin from a pulpit.
Please stop preaching about your truths.....
I personally am heading over to a non-latin bible burning now so I'll check in later.

The upside is that his Adam to Armageddon sermon is shorter.

While I was at Bethel, I never spoke with Ray Franz. He kept a very low profile, and stayed very active with his congregation after work. I did know some of his close friends, and I was good friends with several of the people who had worked closely with him on their assignments for the previous decade or more. Only two of those good friends (that I knew) were sent home from Bethel, and dismissed from the Writing Department, due to their friendship with Ray Franz. It was known that both of these brothers no longer held 1914 to be true, but this had been known for nearly 10 years, and it didn't stop them from receiving assignments to write Watchtower study articles, or books for the assembly releases. They were sent back to their congregations as elders with a special pioneer stipend. At least one of them continued to receive Writing and Research assignments from both Swingle and Barry over the next 10 years, or so, too. Several of the other brothers who could no longer conscientiously believe in 1914 remained in their positions in the Writing Department, Service Department, and even on the Governing Body. According to Ray Franz, he came to understand the problems of 1914 while researching the Chronology article for the book Aid to Bible Understanding. That was researched in the late 1960's, and was released in 1969. He was not disfellowshipped over this matter. Neither were the researchers who worked with him. I was working for Brother Schroeder from late 1977 to 1982, who also had his own ideas about 1914 that could not be published.
The point is that no one was "aligned" with Ray Franz as far as I knew. Many brothers were "exposed" in the late 1960's for their beliefs about 1914, and this was not considered a reason to dismiss them, nor stop them from contributing as Jehovah's Witnesses. Even more persons admitted their doubts about 1914 when asked to respond to Carl Jonsson's manuscript. Even John Albu, another friend of mine who shared his books with me, and who was considered the primary person to try to respond to the COJ manuscript, had his own personal views about 1914 and Matthew 24.
It actually sounds funny to me, when I see it happen so commonly here that someone tries to align an argument with Ray Franz as a means of dismissing it. It sounds a bit like saying that the Devil believes in God, therefore we should not believe in God.

JWI,
There were "several people" at Bethel and elsewhere who were aligned with Ray Franz, but when they were exposed . . . well, you know or should know their history.
You preach on this forum that Revelation does not show us that it would be sometime future to the apostle John's writing of Revelation that Jesus would became enthroned over mankind. Since that event, he has power by holy spirit for building up and protecting true Christians for their continued existence in these last days as an international brotherhood, despite Satan's increased activities for bringing about great woe for the earth, and bringing about persecutions designed to crush the international brotherhood of Jehovah's Witnesses. Existence of the only international brotherhood is a miracle of holy spirit, and only in these last days has it become of sufficient strength and organization for giving a worldwide witness to Jehovah's satisfaction. But all of that is owing to the Lord's last-days enthronement. One of his first acts following 1914 when he was made the specially empowered King over mankind was the casting of the Devil and his angels out of Heaven. You cannot preach such things in good conscience, can you? Then you do not belong among us Jehovah's Witnesses. Just bring the preachments you have posted on this forum and lay all of them before the eyes of the elders in your congregation, and see if they agree with you that you deserve recognition as one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

The SIGN (pt 2 of 2)
In the first part (The SIGN, pt 1 of 2) it was indicated that Jesus had been asked about a sign because the disciples wanted to know when this complete destruction of the temple was going to occur. Jesus indicates that they can expect all kinds of troubles right up until the judgment on Jerusalem begins, but that there would be no advance warning signs. Of course, people would be claiming that this or that sign was the evidence, but these would be from people who misunderstand, some sincere, some just false prophets, who would claim they understood various events as part of the sign. This becomes more evident, I think, when we pick up in the middle of Jesus' answer that ended above with the paragraph that loosely matches Matthew 24:21-22. I'll repeat that last paragraph before going on:
Jesus: This is the beginning of a true judgment event the likes of which you have never seen. Nothing like it has ever happened upon Jerusalem before. It's going to be worse than even the tribulation upon Jerusalem back in Daniel's day. It's only because there will be a break in the tribulation that any persons in Jerusalem will survive at all.
When you now find yourselves in the midst of this judgment event upon Jerusalem [this Parousia], it is even more important that you are not misled by false signs. Expect people to say that the Christ is here or there. Or you might meet someone who claims to be Christ. And they could even be performing powerful works. This can even mislead the chosen ones. But I am warning you in advance.
And people are also going to say that Christ is around here or there, but you just can't see him right now because he is in some other place, like out in the desert, or he's here but he is just not visible to you now because he is in some inner room. Don't believe it. You'll know that can't be true because the true PAROUSIA is going to be like LIGHTNING that shines from one end of the horizon all the way over to the other horizon. You personally will have no reason to doubt it when you see it anyway, because circumstances will make it obvious, the same as if two people were working or sleeping together and one just suddenly disappeared, leaving the other behind. Anyone could spot these circumstances from a mile away. (L17:37)
Because the true SIGN that you are asking about can't appear until immediately AFTER those days when the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven. That's the significance of the change that will come about for you when Jerusalem falls completely. There will be no more Jewish system of things. Your entire world will change. Only THEN will the TRUE SIGN appear: the SIGN of the Son of Man [the equivalent of the Parousia judgment event now ready to come upon the entire world at any time].
When the full and complete SIGN of the Son of Man does appear in heaven AFTER those days, it will be when ALL the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, when they will ALL see the Son of Man appear in heaven with power and great glory. This is when he will send out his angels with a great trumpet sound to gather together, to "HARVEST," the chosen ones from one end of the earth to the other.
(1 Corinthians 15:51, 52) . . .We will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we will be changed.
(Matthew 13:39-43) . . .The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels. . . . 43 At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father.. . .
[So it should be clear that you aren't going to get any specific sign or signs until the TRUE SIGN, the SIGN of the Son of Man. And since that's the ONLY sign, then it's only when you see ALL these other things have happened [right up until the darkening of the sun and moon, and the falling of the stars, that you know that the SIGN, the Son of Man, is now finally NEAR at the doors. [So again, this is a reason why you won't be misled by anyone claiming that I had already arrived, here or there performing powerful works or giving signs to fool even the chosen ones, or that I had arrived over here or over there, but that you just couldn't see me because I was not visible, and off in the wilderness or hidden in a room.] Because NOW you know that I am NEAR, and just about to arrive. You won't need any advance sign, and you won't get any advance sign, because you already know what season you are in. You are in the final season before the harvest. Just like the fig tree that grows young branches and leaves you know that summer harvest is near. You, too, are in the final generation that will come to see this particular "harvest." It will happen as sure as you know that summer comes around.
[But you might still wonder why I give you no advance warning sign.] It's because "Concerning that day and hour, NO ONE CAN KNOW, not even the angels. Not even the Son knows. Only the Father knows. [Because the times and seasons are in HIS jurisdiction.] It's going to be just like it was for most of the people before the Flood in the days of Noah. The PAROUSIA, judgment event, back then came as if with no warning. [It's true that Noah did some preaching, and the people should have repented when they found out what God purposed to do.] But those people just went right on living there life without a care, RIGHT UP UNTIL THE VERY DAY that Noah went into the ark and the judgment event surprised them and swept them all away. That's the same as it will be with the PAROUSIA of the Son of Man. [The PAROUSIA will also come upon the world just as it came upon the people of Sodom, who had no idea what was going to happen to them RIGHT UP UNTIL THE VERY DAY that Lot went out of the city and it rained fire and sulphur, and the judgment event took them away by surprise. It's as if two men were in the field, and without any warning, one gets taken along -- disappears -- and the other, to his surprise, is abandoned. [That's how sudden and surprising and without warning it will be.] It's as if two women were grinding at the same hand mill, and one woman suddenly disappears, and the other is suddenly abandoned. Imagine the surprise. [But that's the way it's going to have to be, and of course, it couldn't be that way if I gave you any kind of advance warning sign.]
[You might think that because you are part of the chosen ones, that I would certainly grant you some kind of sign, but it won't be that way this time.] It's just like when a thief comes to your house one night. If there had been some kind of announcement then the householder would have known and would not have been surprised. But you need to be ready at all times, because you, even though you are chosen ones, you won't know when I am coming. It will be at a time you don't expect it.
So I'm going to give you a few more illustrations to help you remember what is required to be ready at all times. First is an illustration about a faithful slave and an unfaithful slave. What happens when the master leaves a large household full of servants, and must leave the servants in charge of running the household smoothly until he returns? What happens when that return might be delayed? How do the servants usually act? What kind of actions would show a servant to be faithful and wise? What kind of actions would show a servant to be a wicked slave?  etc...
Here's another illustration about foolish and wise virgins. [Same idea.] Here's the situation . . . what would show these virgins to have been wise? What would show these virgins to have been foolish? etc...
Remember the point: keep on the watch because you will not know the day or the hour.
Here's another illustration about foolish and wise slaves who are given investments by their master. Here's the situation . . . What would show whether these slaves were foolish or wise?
Here's another illustration about how when the Son of Man comes in glory, and all the angels with him, about how the "harvest" separates sheep-like persons from goat-like persons. . . What would show whether these persons were sheep-like, or goat-like? etc. . .
 

I am not a preterist. That's because I believe the PAROUSIA and SYNTELEIA and APOKALYPSIS and EPIPHANEIA and THERISMOS (and millennium, of course) are still future. I also believe that Jesus has already been enthroned in kingdom power, sits at God's right hand, and that his invisible presence has begun, and that we are living in the last days, and that the times we are living in give proof that the only real solution to man's problems is the intervention by the Kingdom of God through Christ Jesus. This is the message that I preach, because I look for agreement in the congregation not disagreement.
(1 Corinthians 1:10) 10 Now I urge you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you should all speak in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.
What I think might be true, or it might not be. I hope and expect to be set straight if these scriptures and evidence are not understood correctly. There are several people at Bethel who know exactly what my questions are and they know why these questions should be dealt with. I know that people have been thought of as not true Jehovah's Witnesses for having these questions, but I have never caused trouble** with my beliefs, have never been sanctioned for them, and have never lost privileges over them except to the extent that I have turned down a few assignments and have always been able to swap assignments with others if I felt I could not conscientiously present the material as assigned. My public talk assignments typically cycle through 5 of the outlines talks, and I have given at least 20 different outline talks, and a few different non-outline talks over the years, and there is not one thing in any of those talks that I disagree with in the slightest.
**If you think that being on a discussion forum is "causing trouble," remember that anyone here can easily think of me, or at least pretend to think of me, as merely expressing the kinds of questions that can come up in field service due to the fact that all of these arguments have existed in some form or another for hundreds of years. Consider this a chance to practice overcoming objections, just as we sometimes hear in sample demonstrations at the midweek meetings.
If you have been to the convention this year you might actually hear some preterist-sounding discussion on Sunday regarding Daniel 12. In effect, believing all of it was fulfilled in the past produces nearly the same effect as preterism. But what must have sounded the most preterist in my previous post is actually found in the Watchtower, although these points have gone through some slight adjustment, but never explicitly abandoned. Here's an example regarding the destruction of Jerusalem and the "great tribulation."
*** w78 8/15 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
In view of the terrible destruction of Dresden, Stalingrad, Hiroshima and Nagasaki in World War II, how could Jesus describe what befell Jerusalem in 70 C.E. as a ‘great tribulation such as had never occurred before, nor would occur again’?
That prophecy had a future application beyond what occurred to Jerusalem and on the Jews in 70 C.E., but it also was true as to the history of that city and nation.
These words are in Jesus’ prophetic reply to the apostles’ question about his future presence and the conclusion of the system of things. (Matt. 24:3, 21; Mark 13:19) Jehovah’s Witnesses have often pointed out that much of what Jesus there foretold had two fulfillments: First, a limited fulfillment in the developments leading up to and including the Roman destruction of Jerusalem and the Jewish system of things in 70 C.E. . . .
For Christians living in Jerusalem and Judea who would be directly affected by the end of the Jewish system of things, the warning to keep alert was vital. The Roman armies surrounded the city in 66 C.E., but then unexpectedly withdrew. That was the specific signal that Jesus had mentioned in Luke 21:20-22. And history tells us that obedient Christians responded by fleeing from the city of Jerusalem and from Judea. So it is reasonable to apply also to the literal city of Jerusalem and Judea what Jesus next said, about the “great tribulation.”
The destruction brought by the Romans in 70 C.E. was more extensive and terrible than when the Babylonians destroyed the city of Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E. Also, the tribulation in 70 C.E. brought the permanent destructive end to the Jewish-built city and temple and the system of worship centered around it. So Jesus was correct in prophetically describing the events in 70 C.E. as “great tribulation such as has not occurred [on that city, nation and system of things] since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again.”
. . .
And since then we have many times expressed that these words had an exact meaning for the first fulfillment, even if that fulfillment is considered miniature compared to the judgment event that brings a "destructive end" [SYNTELEIA] upon all the nations.
*** w81 11/15 p. 18 pars. 8-9 ‘Stay Awake and Keep Your Senses’ ***
8 However, Christians who had stayed awake and had kept their senses were already out of Jerusalem and all Judea, having fled to places of security when the opportunity came after the year 66 C.E. By believing the prophetic words of Jesus and acting upon them, they survived. But, when that “great tribulation” came upon the Jews in 70 C.E., there was no longer any time for them to flee. Several thousand who tried to get out of the city through the Roman encirclement were caught by soldiers, who even cut open some of those Jews to get the gold that many of them had swallowed. . . .
9 That was indeed a severe “tribulation” that came upon the Jews, exactly as Jesus had foretold. (Luke 19:43, 44)
*** w83 8/1 p. 24 par. 9 “The Israel of God” and the End of the Gentile Times ***
What the inquiring apostles witnessed down to the end of the first century C.E. was a miniature fulfillment of Jesus’ prophecy, in the way of famines, earthquakes, pestilences, wars and persecutions, as well as the wiping out of “the Jerusalem today.”
There have even been Watchtower articles that indicated that all of the features, up until the actual "sign" were fulfilled in the first century. This included the wars, famines, earthquakes, pestilences and even the preaching of the good news in all the inhabited earth had a fulfillment in the first century:
(Romans 10:16-18) 16 Nevertheless, they did not all obey the good news. . . . the word about Christ. 18 But I ask, They did not fail to hear, did they? Why, in fact, “into all the earth their sound went out, and to the ends of the inhabited earth their message.”
(2 Timothy 4:17) 17 But the Lord stood near me and infused power into me, so that through me the preaching might be fully accomplished and all the nations might hear it; . . .
(Colossians 1:23) . . .of that good news that you heard and that was preached in all creation under heaven. . . .
The view that Jesus words had a fulfillment in the first century does not in any way discount a larger fulfillment.

Possibly they are overstating matters a bit

JWI,
I would not want you at my side in field service. You do not preach the same message of the Kingdom that Jehovah's Witnesses teach. Your last post shows me that you are a preterist. Your message that you preach here does not cohere with the Scriptures. You say that you are one of Jehovah's Witnesses? No, you are not; in your heart you are not one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
Tiago.
 

Awh, shucks!  I think you made all that up!   

Very interesting so far JWInsider. Enjoying reading your analysis.
I got into a discussion once with a "Bible Student" and he wanted to know the difference between Christ's coming (to execute final judgement) and his parousia (the invisible extended period of time prior to that). He said it was one and the same thing. It does get kind of confusing when Jesus apparently "came" in 1918...
I'm sure you are aware of the July 2013 WT, where the writers attempted to explain the new understanding.  (I realise this is bringing another element into the equation, namely the faithful and discreet slave)
16 Regarding the faithful and discreet slave, Jesus says: “Happy is that slave if his master on arriving [“having come,” ftn.] finds him doing so.” In the parable of the virgins, Jesus states: “While they were going off to buy, the bridegroom arrived [“came,” Kingdom Interlinear].” In the parable of the talents, Jesus relates: “After a long time the master of those slaves came.” In the same parable, the master says: “On my arrival [“having come,” Int] I would be receiving what is mine.” (Matt. 24:46; 25:10, 19, 27) To what time do these four instances of Jesus’ coming refer?
17 In the past, we have stated in our publications that these last four references apply to Jesus’ arriving, or coming, in 1918. As an example, take Jesus’ statement about “the faithful and discreet slave.” (Read Matthew 24:45-47.) We understood that the “arriving” mentioned in verse 46 was linked to the time when Jesus came to inspect the spiritual condition of the anointed in 1918 and that the appointment of the slave over all the Master’s belongings occurred in 1919. (Mal. 3:1) However, a further consideration of Jesus’ prophecy indicates that an adjustment in our understanding of the timing of certain aspects of Jesus’ prophecy is needed. Why so?
 18 In the verses that lead up to Matthew 24:46, the word “coming” refers consistently to the time when Jesus comes to pronounce and execute judgment during the great tribulation. (Matt. 24:30, 42, 44) Also, as we considered in  paragraph 12, Jesus’ ‘arriving’ mentioned at Matthew 25:31 refers to that same future time of judgment. So it is reasonable to conclude that Jesus’ arrival to appoint the faithful slave over all his belongings, mentioned at Matthew 24:46, 47, also applies to his future coming, during the great tribulation. * Indeed, a consideration of Jesus’ prophecy in its entirety makes it clear that each of these eight references to his coming applies to the future time of judgment during the great tribulation.
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20130715/jesus-prophecy-last-days/
I am looking forward to what your final conclusion is, summarized in just a few paragraphs I hope!

I know this is you pet subject @JW Insider . Maybe you should send this to the writing department at HQ .
I look forward to reading more when time allows,  and perhaps contributing my tuppence worth 

Yes, instruction is fine, but with this instruction comes honesty. For years we have bashed the Catholic church for shutting their eyes to child sexual molestation. Although our situation is different to that of the Catholic church,  we are not immune to those in authority using their position to get away with such things as child molestation, wife beating etc. Although not prolific like opposers would make out, still, in the words of our own organization "one molested child is one too many". The facts are; there have been elders and ministerial servants who have sexually molested children, and who have got away with it for a long time because no one would believe something like this could ever happen in our organization, after all we ARE Jehovah's organization! I do not believe the GB should hold our hands, just admitting this problem does exist in Jehovah's organization would suffice. Sooner or later this admission will be made, but the longer it's evaded, the worse the results will be as there will be a lot of publishers who will wonder why this information has been withheld for so long.....