Anna

48 minutes ago, Eoin Joyce said:

Doesn't a professional opinion count as a second witness??

I think it does to a point. But regardless whether it does or not, if a professional opinion finds the alleged perpetrator guilty, then he/she will be dealt with accordingly and the brothers can then also act accordingly. The problem arises when a suspect is not reported to the authorities and the brothers try and establish facts by themselves....the brothers really should not try and investigate, and should report it to relevant authorities as soon as possible. 

So what I want to say is that I think the two witness rule will become irrelevant and will only be used in congregational judicial settings when secular authorities find the perpetrator not guilty.

13 hours ago, JW Insider said:

No. The idea was more of a mess than I thought at first. It's a humbling task, and I'm not cut out for it. Through my own small attempt, I could tell that Brother Jackson must have put some real effort into the same kind of task. I'm sure you felt that too. But I also felt that something prevented him from getting too pro-active about making it comprehensive.

And I didn't even try. I had exactly the same thoughts. I put some ideas down, but then saw the difficulty in implementing them because several "what if's" popped into my mind, and those "what if" scenarios scrapped that idea. I don't know if that's what you meant by humbling task, I agree, it's not as easy as some make it out it to be,  for example the "report all to relevant authorities" might make our brother's tasks easier, and will definitely curb the lawsuits,  but it will not necessarily eliminate the problem. I can think of one problem immediately; (as I am sure you can) will the knowledge that whatever disclosure regarding child sexual abuse, will immediately be made known to the authorities, prevent some from disclosing? I know for a fact it will. Social workers are obligated (in the US) to tell their clients that if the client decides to disclose things of that nature, the social worker is mandated to report to the authorities. This has prevented many from making that disclosure. Candace Conti was one of them. She only disclosed everything many years later when she filed a lawsuit against WT and the congregation. Probably at Bill Bowen's "brilliant" (not!) prompting. (She most likely ended up without a penny, and despite all the propaganda around the case, the only people who know who she is are ex-witnesses, lawyers and a few journalists. And we will most likely never hear any more from her or her lawyer, Rick Simons (who had plenty to say on You Tube prior the settlement) because NO ONE is allowed to talk about it now).

I think what prevented Jackson becoming too proactive about making it comprehensive (at least at the hearing) was that he obviously could not speak for only himself and that any decision obviously has to be made collectively with all the GB members present. Plus every single scripture pertaining to that subject, and every scriptural principle has to be carefully scrutinized. This is why I am so curious to see the outcome of the March hearing, as in 2015, the Chair (McClellan) said he expected to see some improved policies by the next hearing in 2017.....

9 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

hook us into his own blog where he presumably has many more.

If you are talking about Witness, then that is not his/her blog but some crazy woman's, who thinks the GB and the WT are the antichrist....

12 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Toleration is not a black and white idea. It's on a spectrum. 50 shades of gray, and sometimes shades of black and blue.

Yup. As soon as I wrote that, a hundred different scenarios raced through my head, as you say, 50 shades of grey and some. This is what the whole child sexual abuse affair is about, 50 shades of grey. I should have perhaps clarified that and used a different description…..something like: most human beings hate the thought of a child being sexually abused.

12 hours ago, JW Insider said:

But I think that all sexual abuse is a kind of rape, and I think rape is a crime, and I think that any organizations that get out front and show that they are more concerned with the little ones, the victims, will have made themselves even more appealing in the area of recruitment, too.

I agree with you totally of course. The problem is with the fact that it’s not that simple to identify sexual abuse. It’s not like murder, where we have an obvious victim, (a body), and obviously a murderer. But even then, in many cases, the murderer is not found. Without concrete proof, everyone is innocent…..until proved guilty. I remember following the Casey Anthony case, to me, all the signs were there that she killed her two year old daughter, but the Police could not prove it. So she got some prison time for lying, and now is free.

By the way, did you ever manage to put together a draft of what you thought might be the best policy for us when handling child sexual abuse? I know we talked about it a while ago when the ARC first started. You had some ideas of what you thought should be done. I did too, but never put anything together. It looks like we will be seeing a new policy soon, come the hearing in March, and I wonder if it will look like anything we would have come up with….

You misunderstood me. I did say (reporting child abuse) "will free the elders to concentrate more on helping the victim spiritually, and leave the rest to the authorities". I did not mean elders would investigate the crime. If, lets say a parent, suspicious of their child being sexually abused by someone, approaches an elder with that concern, it is logical that the elders should ask some questions. (Unless of course the parent already volunteers enough information which convinces the elders something might be going on). It wouldn't be right for the elders to contact the authorities with every allegation of child abuse  (read this paper) unless they have a reasonable evidence themselves to suspect something (whether that is based on information from a parent/other member of the congregation or the victim) Of course the parent/other member of the congregation can bypass the elders and go straight to the police. Once the allegation is reported to the relevant authority, by the elders or others, then if the alleged perpetrator is a congregation member, and especially if they hold some responsibility, the elders do have to act in a congregational manner since the alleged perpetrator is now no longer "irreprehensible" even if the accusations are eventually proved wrong. What about the victim and their family? Do the elders have to wait until what the authorities establish? This may take months. In the meantime, surely the elders should be able to perform pastoral work, especially at a time where it might be needed the most. I understand why it is important not to interfere with professional work, but the elders cannot just ignore the family and the victim. No doubt there will be guidelines published on what the elders should and what they shouldn't talk about so as not to inadvertently hamper investigation.....

8 hours ago, Ann O'Maly said:

Google other church child abuse policies. You will find that JW policies are nowhere near as robust

Policies are no good if they don't work in practice. Read this interesting report (first posted by CMP)

8 hours ago, Ann O'Maly said:

Why does it have to be that a law needs to be passed to make 'Jehovah's Earthly Organization' do the right and responsible thing? 

Because the right and responsible thing might not necessarily be to report every allegation of child sexual abuse. Why do you think it has taken states this long to make reporting mandatory? Think about it.

2 hours ago, Ann O'Maly said:

There's plenty of testimony already recorded during the 4 days of trial to give us a picture of what really happened. 

Where can one get a hold of it?

On 2/26/2017 at 1:05 AM, Arauna said:

.... So I learnt through hard experience that we must focus on  "spiritual enrichment " first.

Thanks for sharing your experiences Arauna. Most of us from the West have never encountered situations like that and it's good to remember that those who are stricken in some way, does not necessarily mean they have a spiritual need....I am thinking of the refugee situation in Europe, I was there a couple of months ago and saw some very pity full looking families. The friends try bring them hope, but often times they view us like a charity that merely provides materially. This is the kind of reputation the churches have, so this is what they expect from us too....

Very interesting article. Thank you. I hope our situation will be a lot more simpler come the hearing on March 10th. It seems that there is a lot of red tape in the Catholic Church, (not surprising) but really we should not have that kind of problem. Our concern is simple, whatever we do, will it be in harmony with Bible principles. Geoffrey Jackson alluded to that when questioned by Council Assisting (who also recognized the importance the Scriptures play in our decision making)

Council Assisting (Stewart): “Leaving aside the question of overriding mandatory law from the civil authorities, do you see the possibility within the scriptures as you have identified them for a change in the practice of Jehovah's Witnesses?  In other words, would it be within the scriptures for the Jehovah's Witnesses organisation to adopt a policy which says that in cases where there are others at risk, a report must be made to the authorities”?

G Jackson: “That is a possible thing for us to consider, and I think, already, the assumption is there, that if any elder was to see that there was some definite risk, that their conscience should move them to do that. But the point I was trying to make, Mr Stewart, is there are other scriptural factors that maybe make that a little complicated, and it would certainly be a lot easier if we had mandatory laws on that”.

So that's should be our only "red tape" and of course I say that not meaning that the Bible is some kind of excessive and unnecessary bureaucratic formality, but it is something that we JWs, as opposed to Christendom, make our only guide and standard. Nowhere in the discussions of the Catholic Church with the ARC have I heard the Bible mentioned once.

1 hour ago, ComfortMyPeople said:

mentioning that apostates slander us, saying we tolerate child abuse. I thought “it’s crazy, who could think so, if we don’t tolerate smoking, let alone child abuse.”

Of course. You are right. No one in their right mind tolerates child abuse, individuals in the Catholic Church don't either. The only institutions that not only tolerate it but make money off it are the child porn industry and sex slave trade.

As you say, it's all about the policies. Lets hope that very soon our policies will be the best possible...

On 2/26/2017 at 11:23 AM, Ann O'Maly said:

THAT is a very good question. I cannot find publicly available information on the internet. Maybe it happened and didn't hit the news, or doesn't show up on main searches, or it was a closed prosecution or maybe it is something in the works, or for some reason the authorities aren't actioning it. I don't know. But I'd like to know.

 

Well...it looks like Stephanie Fessler settled....we will never find out what really happened now....

http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/02/jehovahs_witness_sexual_abuse.html

It’s impossible for us physical beings to even imagine what it’s like to be a spirit being. Those who will go to heaven won’t know until they get there. Obviously it’s a totally foreign dimension to us, hence anthropomorphic expressions are helpful. However most of Christendom’s adherents imagine heaven like what physical paradise earth will be; trees, streams, mountains etc.One of my Bible studies, a scientist, knew that a spirit universe couldn’t be anything like a physical universe. It’s scientifically impossible. She told me that she could never understand how people could think that when they went to heaven they would be playing cards with their grandpa.....and the harp. I guess she forgot that not everyone thinks like a scientist. The strangest thing of all is that the Mormons believe that the physical person, literally flesh and blood, will go to heaven....(and own a planet) I don't think even the Catholics think that, but they do believe they will have wings

27 minutes ago, TrueTom said:

Anna said: I know, but no one will notice that really, because the first thing they will see is the topic title followed by "started by Anna"...

That Anna's a real troublemaker.  

Yeah!  The thing is, I don't even really want to talk about "Ignorance of child abuse within the JW community" as this topic has already been discussed ad nauseam on here in various forms, ask the others. It looks like I keep letting myself be sucked into it though  

28 minutes ago, TrueTom said:

The children's mother specifically tells the children "even if it is someone you know or trust."

I know, but that's my point, will someone you know and trust look and act like a sleazy monster..

47 minutes ago, The Librarian said:

@Anna The first post will show you were responding to JTR on a different thread with a completely different topic.

 

I know, but no one will notice that really, because the first thing they will see is the topic title followed by "started by Anna"...

By the way I never started this topic!

I wish admin. wouldn't keep doing this.......taking the liberty to move threads from topics started by a specific person and then claim it was a topic started by someone else without asking and/or clarifying. 

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I don't think too many Australian Witnesses are holding their heads very high when the topic is brought up during witnessing activities.

I have a friend in Australia, a very spiritual, zealous, sweet and humble sister, her husband is an elder and coordinator, and when I asked her about the general consensus of the friends there, she quoted a scripture "But there is nothing carefully concealed that will not be revealed, and nothing secret that will not become known" Luke 12:2 .

4 hours ago, TrueTom said:

Even on sexual abuse, they have produced one of the best videos out there: Protect Your Children.

I don't mean to be negative, although it is a good video, in my opinion though I've always thought that depicting the "bad guy" as a monster type looking thing is a little misleading (for the children at least) because it makes it look like the "bad guy" is going to be easily identifiable, because.....well he LOOKS bad, and acts CREEPY, whereas in reality a sexual predator grooms his victims and appears very nice to the children, and others. Many times the child molester is a member of the family. The children might be looking for someone sleazy, and might be thrown off guard if the person is a "nice" brother in the congregation, a friend of the family, or even sadly a parent. I might be wrong, just my thought...

2 hours ago, TrueTom said:

"No wonder Geoffrey Jackson pleaded with the Australian Government to make mandatory reporting the law in every territory!"

Did he really?

He wasn’t able to address the law makers directly as he was talking to the Australian Royal Commission. But it is very clear that this is what he was saying at least on three occasions. Here are three quotes from the transcript:

G. Jackson: “Thank you for the opportunity to explain this. I think very clearly Mr Toole pointed out that if the Australian Government, in all the States, was to make mandatory reporting, it would make it so much easier for us”.

G. Jackson: “The point being, here, another aspect that an elder needs to consider is he does not have the authority to lord it over or take over control of a family arrangement, where a person - let's say it is a victim who is 24 or 25 years of age - has a right to decide whether or not they will report that incident. They also respect the family arrangement that the appointed guardian, who is not the perpetrator, has a certain right, too.  So this is the spiritual dilemma that we have, because at the same time, we want to make sure that children are cared for. So if the government does happen to make mandatory reporting, that will make this dilemma so much easier for us, because we all want the same goal,that children will be cared for properly”.

Council Assisting (Stewart): “Leaving aside the question of overriding mandatory law from the civil authorities, do you see the possibility within the scriptures as you have identified them for a change in the practice of Jehovah's Witnesses?  In other words, would it be within the scriptures for the Jehovah's Witnesses organisation to adopt a policy which says that in cases where there are others at risk, a report must be made to the authorities”?

G Jackson: “That is a possible thing for us to consider, and I think, already, the assumption is there, that if any elder was to see that there was some definite risk, that their conscience should move them to do that. But the point I was trying to make, Mr Stewart, is there are other scriptural factors that maybe make that a little complicated, and it would certainly be a lot easier if we had mandatory laws on that”.

2 hours ago, TrueTom said:

Nothing in the world should be easier than to pass laws mandating reporting in every jurisdiction? Why have they not done it?

I hope I am not being too cynical if i suggest that it is because some like it just the way it is

In my opinion mandatory reporting will definitely make the elders less culpable, but it will not necessarily solve the problem in protecting children. Yes, perhaps you are being a bit cynical. The reason why some states/countries are hesitant to enforce mandatory reporting may be due to the reasons found in this paper:

http://www.nccpr.org/reports/mandatoryreporting.pdf

12 hours ago, JW Insider said:

because the word-order in the sentence is not standard English. Now I know that the style was that of Fred Franz, who could sometimes sound like he could "speak Yoda"

I think that's just "old" speak, maybe wanting to sound a little Shakespearean perhaps? "Cowards die many times before their deaths; The valiant never taste of death but once. Of all the wonders that I yet have heard, it seems to me most strange that men should fear; Seeing that death, a necessary end, will come when it will come"......

But then guess what, I found this!

http://prestwickhouse.blogspot.com/2009/12/plain-english-how-yoda-helps-students.htmlo

So I wasn't too far off the mark after all

37 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

nothing like living in an evironment with aborted fetuses that never grow up, playing with foggy tribbles.

I cant help it but this absolutely cracks me up!

Seriously now, you might have made them think, but do you ever get the opportunity to follow up? What do you call highly effective besides not wasting gas?

4 hours ago, Anna said:

With mandatory reporting any disclosure will immediately be reported to the police. This will free the elders to concentrate more on helping the victim spiritually, and leave the rest to the authorities

This is the kind of situation that will be ideal for the Elders as they will not need to worry about what to do with a child sexual abuser and will just leave it all to the police. Gone will be the days where Elders are accused of leaving an alleged child molester at large in the congregation or community, this will be the authorities problem. No wonder Geoffrey Jackson pleaded with the Australian Government to make mandatory reporting the law in every territory!

21 hours ago, INTREPID TRAVELLER said:

What is the WTBTS going to do to remedy ITS policies on the matter ?

The WTBTS is going to report any allegations of child abuse to the authorities where mandated to do so.

4 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

With the ARC commencing its public hearing on Monday next I am hoping for a more objective and rational assessment of matters under Justice Peter McClellan's capable steer.

I believe the hearing is scheduled for Friday 10th March. There is no time allocated yet but since Sydney is GMT + 11 it will likely be on Saturday for most of us....but it's not that big of a deal, because there will be transcripts of the whole hearing available.

8 hours ago, Ann O'Maly said:

This is exactly why trained professionals should handle all allegations, rather than untrained elders. Besides, when laypersons bumble in, trying to ascertain the truth of an allegation, they can (unintentionally) corrupt any evidence-gathering which, in turn, compromises the case, making it harder to successfully resolve.

Allegations disclosed to the elders are disclosed to the elders for a reason. If it's an allegation against a congregation member, by a congregation member, then it is expected to be handled at congregation level. Elders do not claim to be substitutes for secular authorities. The elders job is to keep the congregation clean spiritually and morally. In order to be able to do that, the elders need information, I am sure you will agree with that. However, how much and what kind of information is required is different to what secular authorities require and something that will probably change. With mandatory reporting any disclosure will immediately be reported to the police. This will free the elders to concentrate more on helping the victim spiritually, and leave the rest to the authorities. Right?

4 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

YOU HAVE A CHOICE .... Remain ignorant, and by extension deliberately choose to be a fool .... or find out what is REALLY going on around you.

It’s always easy to see what should have been done after the fact. It’s not always the case when you’ve been thrown head first into a situation, one perhaps you have never encountered.  Reminded me of the  movie Sully (about the pilot who landed his plane in the Hudson) where he is being accused by the transport safety board of a bad decision;  for not having taken the plane to LaGuardia, as all the flight simulations showed he could have landed the plane there quite safely. Instead, he opted for the risky landing on the Hudson. In the hearing, Sully reminds the Board that the flight simulations, although using live pilots, are devoid of the human factor. The pilots in the simulation already knew what they were going to do, they knew that immediately after the bird strike they would turn the plane around and head straight for the airport. They had practiced this 17 times! However, in real life, this would have never happen of course. A pilot confronted with this situation would need time to decide what his best options were and he would only have one shot at it. To take this into account, the Board gives Sully 35 seconds to allow for this human factor. Needless to say, in the revised simulations, the plane never makes it, and crashes. Also, the preliminary investigation of the engines showed that one engine was still functioning. This was later found to be false, both engines were rendered useless by the bird strike.  Sully got away with being a hero, and rightly so. However, had the Board not been generous in admitting the human factor, and had the second engine not been found, his eventuality may have been quite different. He could have been charged with pilot error, and of needlessly putting the lives of 150 people at risk. Had some lives been lost, he would have been held responsible.

Child sexual abuse is much more complex than people would like to believe. One can never be sure of exactly what happened and the situation surrounding it. There is no black box or flight recordings.  Many of these cases are brought to light many years later.  There may be all kinds of evidence, but there is no guarantee that this evidence is wholly true or is fool proof. Many times elders involved in these cases have encountered them for the first time and due to human factor have not reacted perfectly or according to the book. On top of that, secular attitudes and laws keep changing.  What doesn’t help in the case of Jehovah’s Witnesses is that most of the abuse occurs in the home, and many times in dysfunctional families.  The world hasn’t got it right either. Hence the institutional investigations. These will hopefully improve the way child sexual abuse is handled across the board in all institutions, and thus will help to safeguard as many children as possible.....

4 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

This March the Australian Royal Commission on Child Abuse #29 will have a week long follow up, Case #54, or #57, if memory serves.   THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS ALL ABOUT THIS, as Intrepid Traveler's links show.

The whole world does not know about this at all. It's not as important to many people as you think. (And I mean non JW people). Besides commissions set up to investigate this problem, the people it interests most are journalists, Lawyers, opposers, ex-JWs and JWs who know about it.

4 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

and if Justice interferes with the cash flow ... Justice is the FIRST thing that is abandoned."

Don't put JWs in the same basket. You should know better than that JTR

5 hours ago, ThePraeceptor said:

It seems fake to me. More like some poor attempt to troll jws...

Well of course you are right. If it's something JTR has posted then you can be sure that at least half of the time it's something he got (directly or indirectly) from apostate Web sites. He really should stop that habit, he's not helping himself at all, just helping to feed his already negative experiences and cynical viewpoint...like pouring salt on a wound. And although it's meant in jest many times, and sometimes it IS actually funny, sadly, one day it could bring him down to the point of no return. 

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

I say " ilah" when I speak about god but it has become common among Christian Arabs to use Al Lah - which actually means "
the god" and has become so common everywhere.    It is almost as though it has become a higher form when speaking about god.  The reason why Arab Christians use Allah is because they deny the name of Jehovah - which is sad.  Sometimes it is harder to speak to them than to Muslims because they love their idol worship and will tell you directly that they want nothing to do with you because JWs do not worship Mary.  They see Mary as interceding for women and Jesus as interceding for men..  I was flabbergasted when I had a long discussion with a very religious Greek orthodox man and I gave him a good chance to explain to me where Mary fits in in his church!

I try to avoid Muslims greetings and stick to marxaba / aHlan was Sahlan instead of Salaam Alaykum and should consciously only stick to Jehwah Ilah (Jehovah God).  I also do not use the word Isa for Jesus but use Jeshua because Isa is a character who will come back and bow to Mohammad after he has fought the one-eyed jew - the antichrist (Dajjal) and his Jewish followers in battle.    

 

Interesting.

I had an uncle who was a Christian Arab, but I never knew what he believed as I was only little at time.

On 2/23/2017 at 7:34 PM, Melinda Mills said:

People who are successful in this life made sacrifices to get where they are now, and some continue to make sacrifices.

See quote below from a successful writer/journalist, Thuy Yau.

“We have to make the choice between our immediate desires and the needs that will propel our dreams forward.

Fact is, it’s not wrong of us to have these immediate desires, these temptations to choose the ‘easier’ option’. It’s normal to feel that way. However, when we sacrifice what we want right now, we are saving our time and energy for something more important. Something that will bring us one step closer to our real goals. Something we truly want, not just something we want right now.

Maybe we don’t want to sacrifice our time, stability, personal life, sleep, health, stillness and sanity. Maybe it just feels too difficult. But I’ll tell you right now, I’ve sacrificed every one of these things at one point or another. I wouldn’t have gone from writing on a personal blog to working as a freelance writer/journalist, if I had chosen the easier option. I wouldn’t have grown as a person if I hadn’t made those sacrifices either.

If you want to be successful and achieve what you really want in life, you’ll have to make sacrifices. But when you reach the end of that mountain, you’ll be so very glad that you never gave up the journey.”

==

Note the sacrifices it took to arrive at the success she attained as a writer.

If people can make sacrifices to attain transient goals and treasures, what is so wrong for true Christians to choose to make sacrifices and focus on the real life (everlasting life in perfect conditions) which is promised in the scriptures. Paul’s letter to Timothy encourages us to choose the real life and not the illusions of this system of things.

(1 Timothy 6:18, 19) . . .Tell them to work at good, to be rich in fine works, to be generous, ready to share, ¹⁹ safely treasuring up for themselves a fine foundation for the future, so that they may get a firm hold on the real life.

 

Jesus Christ said to seek first the Kingdom of God not worldly things.

 (Matthew 6:33) “Keep on, then, seeking first the Kingdom and his righteousness, and all these other things will be added to you.

 

 (1 Corinthians 15:19) If in this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are to be pitied more than anyone.

 

(Hebrews 6:9, 10) 9 But in your case, beloved ones, we are convinced of better things, things related to salvation, even though we are speaking in this way. 10 For God is not unrighteous so as to forget your work and the love you showed for his name by ministering and continuing to minister to the holy ones.

 

We make decisions taking into consideration the real life promised in the Bible.

 

We talking about excellence in everything we do -  we are not talking about sloppiness, carelessness, leaving school without any qualifications or skills. We are talking about not using the world to the full so we may have more time to do God’s will.

 

(1 Cor 7: 29-35) 29 Moreover, this I say, brothers, the time left is reduced. From now on, let those who have wives be as though they had none, ³⁰ and those who weep as those who do not weep, and those who rejoice as those who do not rejoice, and those who buy as those who do not possess, ³¹ and those making use of the world as those not using it to the full; for the scene of this world is changing. ³² Indeed, I want you to be free from anxiety. The unmarried man is anxious for the things of the Lord, how he may gain the Lord’s approval. ³³ But the married man is anxious for the things of the world, how he may gain the approval of his wife, ³⁴ and he is divided. Further, the unmarried woman, as well as the virgin, is anxious for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in her body and in her spirit. However, the married woman is anxious for the things of the world, how she may gain the approval of her husband. ³⁵ But I am saying this for your personal advantage, not to restrict you, but to move you to what is appropriate and to constant devotion to the Lord without distraction.

 

People are not coerced to apply these scriptures.  Jehovah God has confidence that persons who understood the scriptures and the urgency to get on the side of His approval would do this willingly. He said prophetically on his Son’s coming to power as the King of God’s kingdom, people would offer themselves to do the King’s bidding.

 

 (Psalm 110:3) “Your people will offer themselves willingly on the day of your military force. In splendid holiness, from the womb of the dawn, You have your company of young men just like dewdrops.”

 

The important work that they would buy out time for is the preaching of the good news of his Kingdom which would solve all the problems now plaguing the world. People need to hear the real solution. (See Matthew 24:14 and Matthew 28:19,20.)

 

Paul further showed that we should buy out time for this.

 

(Ephesians 5:15, 16) ¹⁵ So keep strict watch that how YOU walk is not as unwise but as wise [persons], ¹⁶ buying out the opportune time for yourselves, because the days are wicked.

 

He warned also about materialism.  The more “successful” you are the more gadgets to care for, and service; more travelling, more appointments, parties, etc.  If you simplify your life there will be more time to get down to doing God’s business.

 

(1 Timothy 6:9, 10) But those who are determined to be rich fall into temptation and a snare and many senseless and harmful desires that plunge men into destruction and ruin. ¹⁰ For the love of money is a root of all sorts of injurious things, and by reaching out for this love some have been led astray from the faith and have stabbed themselves all over with many pains.

 

It was true in the first century too that some had left the faith because of reaching out for things that the love of money brings. The precursor to getting more money is usually higher education.

 

People who discern what God’s will is will cut down on or avoid things that would prevent them from living a simple life where they will have time for God and his purposes.

 

The apostle John also encourages us not to love the world and the things in it.

 

(1 John 2:15-17) Do not love either the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him; ¹⁶ because everything in the world—the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one’s means of life—does not originate with the Father, but originates with the world. ¹⁷ Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but the one who does the will of God remains forever.

 

True Christians want to do God’s will and remain forever after the disobedient world passes away. (Rev 7: 14). Those who fall asleep in death look forward to a resurrection to life in heaven or on a paradise earth. (John 10:16; Luke 12:32; Ps 37:10,.11)

 

So some persons make sacrifices to obtain more money and prominence in this life, whereas true Christians make sacrifices in this life to attain the real life, everlasting life.

Some good reasoning there Melinda. In a nutshell, the worldly way is all about ME. The Christian way is about others, and putting Kingdom interests first.

On 2/23/2017 at 11:26 AM, David Normand said:

A couple of Jehovah's Witnesses got married indicates that two of Jehovah's Witnesses got married. 

And what would one say if four Jehovah's Witnesses got married? 

On 2/23/2017 at 11:26 AM, David Normand said:

A Jehovah's Witnesses couple got married also indicates that two of Jehovah's Witnesses got married, but indicates that they were attached in some way. 

And the other two, that were just a couple of Jehovah's Witnesses that got married were not attached in some way?