Anna

I must admit I have not heard anyone express themselves about the collective brothers on the GB as if they were one person.. Usually the brothers will say: "the brothers at HQ", or "the brothers who are taking the lead", when referring to the GB. I am sure Shirley meant each individual, as she later qualified her statement by saying she met some of the members individually. The GB view themselves individually as the "domestics" just like all brothers and sisters are the "domestics" when it comes to spiritual nourishment. Collectively though, they do apply to themselves the term the slave or GB. None one of them can act independently, but only as a body. There has to be majority vote for any any organizational or doctrinal decission to pass. But I am sure you already know this

Dear sister, I don't think anyone here was questioning Jehovah.

I think the idea IS to have plans. But personally I don't think we should need plans as God can save anyone anywhere at any time regardless where they are. Only the ones who "worship" the organization might panic. I think at that time supernatural things WILL happen, because after all, Armageddon will be from a supernatural source, and to survive it, will have to involve miracles.

If the dilemma is whether there is a right/precise answer, then "God allowing" things does not solve it. If you believe there IS a right and precise answer then there is no dilemma, you just have to keep looking until you find it.

Because the mistakes that the WT has made are not comparable to the mistakes Christendom has made. Read history. See the results past and present. It seems only those JWs who have a bad conscience are afraid. I don't see how being baptised and living your life as if Armageddon will come in your lifetime is a bad thing. Didn't Jesus say we should become his followers and disown ourselves? "Then Jesus said to his disciples: “If anyone wants to come after me, let him disown himself and pick up his torture stake and keep following me" Matt 16:24.

I think the situation that was raised was that of: "a fairly successful method of keeping people in a state of anticipation". You are familiar with the scriptures that urge Christians to be in a state of anticipation. I don't think I need to quote them all here. Of course I do not think mistakes are from God or Jesus. But they obviously allowed them. By whatever misguided means this state of anticipation was achieved throughout decades by the organization is not the question here. The fact is it was achieved and still is being achieved. No one can accuse the JWs of not being "on the watch".

They are doing that; through the scriptures I do not think that.

Yes, I think that's the idea.

The whole point is that anyone can do whatever they want. Only if a person wants to serve Jehovah, then they must abide by his rules. They must hate what Jehovah hates. This is why it can be said that JWs are neutral with respect to what the world does. But they are definitely not neutral with respect to what the congregation does.

The only message I know of is the message of the Good News and salvation for all those who want to live under God's Kingdom. Are you calling God a liar then? Are you saying God's Kingdom won't come? I find that disturbing.

"As President of the United States, George Washington proclaimed the first nationwide thanksgiving celebration in America marking November 26, 1789, "as a day of public thanksgiving and prayer, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favours of Almighty God" wikipedia. As you know, Jehovah's Witnesses don't need a special day to thank God. They do this every day. They definitely don't need George Washington to tell them when to do it. As for eating turkey on that day, there's nothing wrong with that of course. Jehovah’s Witnesses can eat turkey any day they want.

Yes. It's natural for every generation to want to live to see all the good promises fulfilled in their lifetime. With the right attitude, this should not be a disturbing thing to anyone, at best. At worst, it is a disappointment when it doesn't happen and can make you downhearted temporarily. With the wrong attitude it can make people angry and throw out the baby with the bath water.

I didn't say anything about the ARC being a good role model. It merely helped us to see areas where we could improve. Yes, the WT did react to the suggestions of the ARC. I know because I listened to the whole thing, I heard the suggestions, and I could see those exact suggestions were being implemented in the 2016 WT study, and the "Child protection" packet on the website. This had never been done before the ARC inquiry. There was never one place accessible to everyone outlining our policies regarding child protection. It was always in articles here and there, and in letters to the elders. Never in one place like this. Now everyone can be on the same page. The changes that were made were changes suggested by the ARC. Of course not. The old advice was good advice. But it lacked in certain areas, and those areas were identified in the ARC hearing. After the 2016 WT study article, many brothers and sisters were extremely grateful for it.

I don't know anything about that. All I know is that after ARC, we published the child protection packet on our website, and had WT study articles discussing child sexual abuse in the congregation, something that had not been done before....

Possible. Jehovah has used "worldly" authorities before to put his people on the right track. Regarding the protection, and handling of child sexual abuse, the ARC has definitely helped us to make clearer and transparent information available to all in the congregation, not just the elders.

What they are saying is that the final attack (that prompts Armageddon) is not made up of separate attacks. I don't know. But regardless who the attacks come from, they are usually because JWs do not compromise Bible principles. As for the inquiry into CSA, it is usually the intention of the inquiring institution to help establish better policies, to protect children, not to ban or persecute Jehovah's Witnesses. As you know, this involves many other establishments, not just JWs. So I would say this would not be considered an attack. Some of the advice was considered very good advice and JWs have taken that advice on board, as long as it did not go against Bible principles.

There is a simple explanation to your questions. The attack on JWs in Russia is not considered to be the attack that will happen during the great tribulation. What is happening in Russia is viewed as regular persecution. Perhaps close to the great tribulation, but not quite. It is true that other religions are also being targeted. But nowhere as much, and with such viciousness as the JWs. And yes, throughout the centuries Christians (and others) have been persecuted, but only those who did not support the system. On the contrary, the leaders of Babylon the Great love to share a bed with Kings and politicians, and always have.

I choose to ignore the content without the "You've chosen to ignore content by ........." You can try that one too 😄 You don't have to read everything you see in front of your eyes,. But then you are in the wrong forum, if you ignore posters here, in the JW open, then you might as well not be here 😄

Why would I suddenly not understand Tom's sense of humour if I have been posting on here for as long as Tom? I also messaged you to let you know who is who since you were new here. That should have told you that I was familiar with most of the posters. But I will give you the benefit of the doubt 🙂

Why is it so hard, for some of the JWs on here to simply admit that yes, 1975 was a debacle, and a mistake made by imperfect people, eager to see the new world. There is nothing wrong with that kind of eagerness. Rather than denying and defending that 1975 was not a debacle, why not talk about what this teaches us, and how it can help us on a personal level to avoid getting sweap up by that kind of reasoning in the future? If the conventions suddenly started mentioning 1930 as a possible date for Armageddon, because of some calculations pertaining to the generation, for example (or any other calculations for thay matter) how would we react? Emma mentioned we would just wait and see. Well yes, that is definitely an answer, and can be the answer for absolutely anything that we are not sure about. But maybe it should go deeper than that. Maybe we should look at ourselves, and refresh the reasons why we are in the truth in the first place. Like those who are now ex-JWs should have done prior to 1975...

I have a feeling you are not being entirely honest. Have you listened to Charles Sinutko's talk? If so, what do you have to say about it? And tell me, how many times did he mentioned the year 1975, and in what context?

Thus far, I've seen it open up a variety of confusion 🙂

It is shocking, but then should we be surprised when people do that? After all, it wouldn't be the first time. I have stopped reading those kind of posts a long time ago.....if Derek intends to stay here, maybe he should do the same. This is not a place for that kind of righteous indignation. This is a place for discussion. If he feels righteously indignant, then he should be able to express that in ways that makes a person think. Otherwise the discussion may just end up being: "You're an idiot" "No, you're' and idiot" etc.... So you are right, he does not belong here.

It was a hypothetical situation I used for the sake of illustration. Or did you really assume I thought I knew your circumstances? And if you think you are being humorous with your reply, then I don't believe that, it appears more like you have nothing better to say. If you don't have a proper answer, then it's ok to say you don't know. After all, you have been lecturing others about humility...

I don't call what Derek posts a sense of humour either. Calling people rats, idiots, and judging that they will die....is that a sense of humour to you? Sadly, not only do I think he lacks a sense of humour, but he evidently lacks in other departments too.... Now Tom, there's a sense of humour 👍