Anna

10 hours ago, JW Insider said:

primary purpose of God sending the spirit into the hearts of Christians, a kind of anointing by holy spirit, is so that we will produce the fruitage that grows from that spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness and self-control. LHM highlighted love and faith and added obedience. This is appropriate too,

True, and this is why it can be said that those who leave the Christian congregation, or those who become Christians in name only, generally stop producing the fruitage of the spirit because Jehovah no longer gives it to them.....they "receive" a rebelious spirit instead. I see this plainly whenever I visit the ex-JW website and read their banter with each other. For the most part there is no mildness, patience, faith or self control. More like selfishness, sarcasm, haughtiness, and of course no faith....

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

My best guess?

China knows one or more  of its weaponized viruses got loose.

They went berserk ..... because they did not know which one(s).

Corvid-19 may be the only one they are ADMITTING to.

That's what my hubby is thinking

21 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

My guess is that if you treat Wuflu with a CONSTANT barrage of treatments as you would for someone with severe asthma, who also has the "normal" flu, it is VERY survivable.

I tend to agree with you there. What I find curious though is that China went into overdrive about this virus as if there is something more to it.....every year there are new flu strains and yet no one makes a fuss about them although these flu strains also kill. Not sure about the percentage compared to the Covid-19. I suppose it's difficult to get accurate morbidity statistics because you would have to compare apples to apples, i.e. all patients being of similar health and age, and receiving the same treatment.....

I thought it was funny when he kept repeating "this is HUGE!"

Personally, I did not see anything amazing about this although the guy used every facial expression, emotive tone and dramatic pausing he could to convince. 

There is no hard evidence showing how many Christians there were in the 1st Century, and applying 1986 to 2019 calculations of exponential growth on the growth rate in the 1st Century just cannot be accurate (with or without miracles). Besides that, after the death of the apostles, the Christian congregation apostatized, which means that not every so called "Christian" would have been of the anointed. 

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

"proof" and "proves" were being used. This is evidence, not proof.

Thanks for drawing my attention to that. I must remember to use the word evidence rather than proof. "Evidence" is a lot more forgiving 😃

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Leadership position? But JW members would say: We don't have human leaders, because our Leader is One, Jesus. :)) If JWorg has no leaders than no single leadership position is available for any of member. 

We are getting tied up in semantics here. There is always going to be someone "put in charge" of a group who have some assignment to do. Did you never get put in groups at school, perhaps a sports team, with a "captain" ? There is nothing sinister about that, just makes practical sense. Also, in the JW arrangement, someone taking the lead is to lead mainly by example. JW 'leadership" roles are modeled on the first century Christian "leadership" roles. The apostle Paul designated brothers to take the lead in various assignments.....and of course the elder arrangement is Biblical also. 

Hebrews 13:7, Acts 6:3, Acts 14:12, Romans 12:8...etc..

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I believe this is true, although I'm not sure what it proves. It seems that only just over 10 percent of the abusers in that list were Elders or MS. (Taken only from two samplings of 200 near the front and 200 near the end.) With Witnesses, even parishioners have a "title" or "role" in the congregation.

My post was mainly in response to 4jah, who was questioning what TTH said:

On 2/18/2020 at 9:51 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

In virtually every case except Jehovah’s Witnesses the ones committing the abuse were the ones holding authority or office within the institution

With Jehovah’s Witnesses, that is rarely the case. Their organization is being asked to assume responsibility for any of their members who have ever committed the crime.

It is not exactly apples to apples.

From 4jah's previous comments elsewhere he implies that the majority of the abuse is committed by elders.

As a side note: it seems the issue here is the American database. We are under NO obligation to hand over this database to lawyers, and if for some reason Lawyers do get a hold of them, then they are forbidden to make them public. By law, they have to keep all such documentation strictly confidential. However, if something like the Australian commission was set up here (USA), then perhaps a nameless database would be made public, just like in Australia. But the lawyers aren't interested in that kind of a database, they are interested in names of perpetrators so they can encourage survivors to file lawsuits against the organization and then rake in the cash. Like this they have to rely on survivors coming forward and filing a lawsuit. Most JW survivors are not interested in filing lawsuits against the organization because they see it's obvious the organization cannot be held responsible for every Tom, Dick, and Harry perpetrator (or those mishandling the case).  In contrast, many ex-JW survivors want to sue the organization because they hate it and want to see it "burn".

@4Jah2me   Here are ALL the cases in Australia (since 1950 I believe). Proof that the majority of cases involves "parishioners" being the perpetrators, not those in leadership positions.

(JW Aust sexual abuse list) - public - Sheet1.pdf

12 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

You play the same old record but you have no proof at all. 

Tom you do not know who has or is committing the abuse in JW Org. 

1. Because it is hidden in congregations around the Earth

2. Because the GB / Lawyers are still hiding that 23 year American JW Database. 

So how can you know Tom ?

You just make it up as you go along, and most times it's just to promote your own books. 

Very selfish Tom. 

 

Actually there is proof. ALL cases in Australia were submitted to the Australian Royal Commission. I have a copy of the file on my pc. When I get the time I will post it. You can peruse it at your leasure and see that the majority of abuses were not committed by elders. There is no reason to believe it would be any different in the other countries....

See @TrueTomHarley you did it!

Dr. Nancy Messonnier, director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases Regarding the novel Coronavirus: "The virus “has demonstrated the capacity to spread globally"

Is it just me, or is that a really stupid statement. I mean surely ANY virus that is inside a host, and the host travels from one side of the globe to the other, will have the same capacity? (Don't blame the virus).

1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

"So next time a conflict arises between you and any of your brothers or sisters

This hardly applies to Child Sexual Abuse which is a crime and a sin, not some conflict. Didn't you know that?

54 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

If exponential, deriving from current rates, then a million people could have it in 3 months where 2 percent is 20,000 deaths.

But China shared the full genetic sequence of the virus back on January 10, so if everyone rushes this would typically mean that vaccines would be developed in a matter of 1 to 2 months.

I have heard it is supposed to take over a year to develop a vaccine. If that's the case then Armageddon might have to come earlier!

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

Perhaps his real, full name is: Mr. Authentic J. Winsider. No relation.

A.k.a Allen Smith

On 1/31/2020 at 9:21 AM, JW Insider said:

15 million people in the US have gotten the flu and 8,200 people have died from it, including at least 54 children. Flu activity has been elevated for 11 weeks straight, the CDC reported, and will likely continue for the next several weeks.

It's good to put things into proper perspective. 

The problem with this new virus is just that: it's new, and that's obviously always scary for scientists because they cannot be sure what they're up against. Mutated viruses are apparently more insidious because they become "super viruses" i.e. harder to kill, multiply quicker and are easier to pass on. Besides these reasons, I wonder if there is something the scientists aren't telling us that's so scary about this particular corona virus, besides there being no vaccine yet. 

19 hours ago, JW Insider said:

strange winds

That's what my dog gets when I give him some of my chili..

20 hours ago, Witness said:

Maybe, you should ask a JW after they hear both Jackson and Travis Brooks give their weather-related accounts.  That will give you your most accurate answer.

What does the average JW think when hearing both of these examples?  God provides, through the actions of weather when the organization is facing an obstacle...relief or aid, through a weather-related event. 

Really the question should be why does Jehovah allow a Kingdom hall in the Philippines to be destroyed including several brothers and sisters with it, and then why does he seemingly provide sand for another kingdom hall to be built?

Most witnesses will tell you that they do not expect divine protection at this time. But when they do experience a life saving situation, they thank Jehovah for it. They will also tell you that they can see Jehovah's blessing in their life and in the life of the organization as a whole, regardless of negative events that are beyond their control. If a tornado came tomorrow, and destroyed the new HQ in Warwick, what do you think most JWs would be saying?

That will give you your answer.

 

2 minutes ago, Witness said:

2 hours ago, Anna said:

No one in the video was saying Jehovah literally caused a mild summer, nor that Jehovah caused sand to be brought by a typhoon.

Anna, this is a cop-out.  

Well did they say that or not?

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I could just mention how God protected Noah and his family, protected the Israelite Nation at the Read sea

See, here again, you are stating the obvious  🤔 . I did say that:

18 hours ago, Anna said:

death...... this included God removing his blessings from mankind in general.

So here's the explanation: Everyone dies, but those who do his will God blesses. ....he becomes the rewarder of those earnestly seeking him Hebrews 11:6 - Also, as has been stated before, the days of miracles (such as the flood) are over for now, waiting for the greatest manifestation of God's power at Armageddon. "But by the same word the heavens and the earth that now exist are reserved for fire and are being kept until the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly people" 2 Peter 3:7 

Those who love God can expect spiritual blessings now, but they do not expect miracles such as weather control  ".....my righteous one will live by reason of faith,” Hebrews 10:38. Why? Because right now "the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one". 1 John 5:19

1 hour ago, Witness said:

He needs to watch this video:

No one in the video was saying Jehovah literally caused a mild summer, nor that Jehovah caused sand to be brought by a typhoon. They are merely grateful to Jehovah for any good that happens because: "Every good gift and every perfect present is from above, coming down from the Father of the celestial lights,..."  James 1:17.  Do you not thank God for a good outcome, even when you know that he probably did not have a direct hand in it? In any case, as I said above to 4Jah, those who do God's will, can expect spiritual blessings. 

Of course Lloyd Evans wouldn't understand any of this as he is a self proclaimed Atheist. Funny you find his videos so inspiring.

6 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Do you really know how stupid that sounds ?  Have you really though it through ? 

You are saying that Satan had / has control of God.  Truth is that God decides who He will protect and when.  

I know you said you are not very educated. Well I will explain it to you.  Obviously Satan does not have control of God. But you are forgetting that the punishment for disobedience was death, and as I already mentioned above, this included God removing his blessings from mankind in general. Therefore: "Satan, by his action, deprived all humans of God's protective power" is obviously meant that God would carry out his sentence, as he said he would, not that Satan was controlling God to carry out the sentence. In other words, it was God's own righteous principles and a promise God couldn't break (because God cannot lie) that caused God to keep his word and punish by removing his blessings and protection. And it was Satan's fault because he lied, and caused the first human couple to obey him instead of God and thereby incur God's punishment. 

Some advice for you as well; try to differentiate between what is obviously meant in a manner of speaking and what is meant to be taken literally.

I can see you sitting at your computer trying to think up another ridiculous argument. Now don't worry, I can't literally  "see you" so no need to close the curtains!

I will let you guys discuss this among yourselves. You seem pretty adamant at twisting what was really being said there, and no amount of logical reasoning will change your minds 😊.

5 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

 

Does Watchtower's worldwide possession of  properties, real estate (buildings) is part of "sign" of the Last Days ?

 

Yes. "And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come". You are forgetting that ALL this is only there to further Kingdom interest. Which in simple terms means preaching the good news of the Kingdom.

This also explains why we can say:

15 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

construction program and buildings will be tangible proof about God's Kingdom reality on Earth

In other words; Satan, by his action, deprived all humans of God's protective power when it comes to the elements, and over other things too. When Adam and Eve were thrown out of the garden of Eden, God said to them: " Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate from the tree concerning which I gave you this command, ‘You must not eat from it,’ cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life. It will grow thorns and thistles for you, ...."  To me this indicates that if they had not sinned, the ground would not have been "cursed" so to speak, and there would be no "thistles and thorns" and no natural disasters. In this way, Jehovah removed his protective power from the earth, and this affects both good and bad people of course. He does not cause natural disasters, he just doesn't stop them. It is assumed that in the new world, God will control the weather (miraculously) for man's benefit, just like Jesus did when he calmed the storm.

1 hour ago, Claudia Sanchez said:

Something about the 20s

And now it's a double 20!

It was political opinion, (although based on scriptures in his mind), that got Rutherford and his associates in trouble and throw in prison in 1918 on charges of sedition....

5 hours ago, JW Insider said:

But you might not believe the level of politics in the 1910s through the 1940's among Bible Students and early Jehovah's Witnesses. It was driven by hundreds of articles that delved into political matters at great length and great depth.

Yes, it always surprises me when I read snippets from publications of that period. The other day I was clearing up some stuff in the garage and found some more old books that belong to my mother in law. As always I can't resist reading a few pages. It's obvious that Rutherford was very in the know as regards politics. And so was Russel (from reading old 1913 WT). It's evident though that the reason they were discussing politics was not because they somehow wanted to be a part of the world as @4Jah2me insinuates, but because the political scene convinced them of the fulfillment of Bible prophecies, and also that we are living in the time of the end.