Anna

Please see my original answer to your original question:

22 hours ago, Anna said:

22 hours ago, AlanF said:

Do you really think that God would appoint a homosexual pedophile to the Governing Body of his organization?

Of course I don't think that.

25 minutes ago, AllenSmith-38 said:

How many do you have Anna? Personally, I just regenerated an account yesterday. I keep getting kick off because You, TTH, JWinsider can’t stand being exposed and what your true purpose is for being in opposition of the watchtower that the librarian wink! Wink! Keeps banning me without even posting a word, lol!..........................................etc.

I don't have the time nor patience to respond to this nonsense.

My word @ASF-37 how many identities do you have Allen Smith?

1 hour ago, Vic Vomidog said:

have stopped for too long. I can see that now.

You are a sick dog!

5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

when I stumbled into this site, via Twitter, I was aghast at all the “apostates” operating here with impunity, on what claimed to be a Witness site

I remember when you first posted here, all wet behind the ears and bewildered. You soon realised this was not a 'unicorn pooping rainbows' Witness only site, and stopped taking everything opposers said so seriously. All in all I would say it's been a good learning curve, for me too,  and I bet nothing anyone throws at you in the future will shock you anymore 😀

5 hours ago, AlanF said:

Then how did that homosexual pedophile get to be on the Governing Body? Remember that such men don't start their pedophile activities at age 72, but much younger.
     

It was believed, until quite recently, that every sinner can change. Even homosexual pedophiles. "This is what some of you were", says Paul at 1 Cor. 6:11.  I am assuming when Greenlees was appointed, it was believed he belonged in that category of "some of you were, but are no longer". The appointment, as all appointments are, was based on qualifications outlined in 1Timothy 3:1-7. I am assuming he met those qualifications at the time he was named. It is now understood (although I believe the society balked at first, being convinced that the scripture applies in absolutely every case, no exceptions)  that people with these problems are for the most part incurable, but can fool others, including themselves, into thinking that they are cured. I find it difficult to believe this man would be appointed, knowing he still had that problem. What would be the purpose? Surely there would be plenty of other brothers, and there were, I think 18 at that time. For JWS, the Bible is a template for practically EVERYTHING. Much to the irritation of people who wonder how can someone be directed by a book thousands of years old. Without a doubt, JWS have made mistakes in their interpretation of some Bible passages.  Perhaps one of these mistakes was misunderstanding the scripture at 1 Cor 6:11. It can not mean that those who have "been made clean", will always stay clean or that they are cured. We know that from evidence. Greenlees being a case in point. The scripture is talking about those particular disciples, it does not mean it applies across the board, to every single person especially with regard to homosexuality. The apostle Paul had to pummel his body, and lead it as a slave, and he was just an ordinary sinner, no homosexual or pedophile. So no one is ever going to be faultless and yet, according to the scriptures, they have the potential to be forgiven and accepted by God if they stop.  With regard to the sickness of pedophilia, these people have got to be kept away from children, so that they are not able to molest them, and so that children are safe, because they cannot stop.Today, no one who has a history of CSA, can ever serve in any capacity in the congregation, ever. We have an old man in our cong. who has some kind of history in the distant past, and he is not allowed to do anything, except comment, and he must be accompanied by a brother in FS, without exception.
Part of the changes are no doubt due to the ARC, and the recognition of the truthfulness of some of the issues raised there. But I am sure that some of it has been because it was recognized that in the past, elders had been hoodwinked into thinking that someone with pedophilic tendencies has been reformed, and will never repeat the offense again. This realisation was unfortunately at the cost of other children being molested, not just the original child.

So, if it was today, Greenlees would have never been appointed not only as GB member, but he would have never become an elder or ministerial servant either.

@Vic Vomidog stop it!

2 minutes ago, AlanF said:

It will be entertaining to watch JW apologists try to rationalize their way around this argument.

Looking forward to it, but right now I've got to get ready for my meeting

Just now, AlanF said:

Do you really think that God would appoint a homosexual pedophile to the Governing Body of his organization?

Of course I don't think that.

1 minute ago, AlanF said:

Do you even believe in God?

I do, but I know you don't.

14 minutes ago, AlanF said:

Isaiah 65:20: "And the sinner will be cursed, even though he is a hundred years of age.

 Of course. So I will leave it between them and God.

11 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

" I don't believe in upsetting the elderly "

you do it to me  

Really? How? I thought I did the opposite. You put a smiley for every quote I post.

1 minute ago, AlanF said:

accusations against Leo Greenlees

I believe you

3 minutes ago, AlanF said:

Call Ciro Aulicino at the Watchtower headquarters in Warwick, New York, then read him what I wrote and see if he agrees that it's correct.

I don't believe in upsetting the elderly

12 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

42 minutes ago, Anna said:

All ready 13 pages within a week!

If you haven't realised, it's a Smokescreen, to avoid the real TOPIC. 

It made me realise my spelling had gone all haywire

12 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Unfortunately, the JW Elders running this forum

Sorry to disappoint you, but there are no elders running this forum.

12 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

'What is the worst outcome that can happen to the GB in these 'cases' ? What is likely to happen regarding American law and the GB ? 

I'll have to think about that one. 

This is all very entertaining! 😀

Already 13 pages within a week!

42 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

I have a theory that this Forum is run by JW Elders. The purpose of the forum being to study the feelings and actions of JW's, Ex-JW's, Apostates, et al.

Actually you are completely wrong! The club is ran by an old hen, who got tired of having to listen to all the squabbles and mindless arguments in the chicken coop. She wanted to raise the 'roost' a little higher so she created this, so she could, with the help of some sheep, 'ewesdrop' on some quality human interaction. Actually, to be honest I am not entirely sure about all of this, but one thing I am 100% sure of is that it IS an old hen. TTH says so.

22 minutes ago, AlanF said:

Quote

And we know Jesus's Kingdom won't be full of hypocrites.

Well then, it won't have any GB members in it, past or present,

It won't in your opinion, since you're not a believer anyway....

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

And you think this Organisation has God's blessing. And you think Jesus Christ died for this ? 

There is a lot of evidence that on the whole the organization has God's blessing, in spite of the "scandals". Here are just a few examples of observations from  outsiders: "It is a rare sight for people of widely different nationalities and cultures to bond together with such warm affection, although total strangers to one another........... With such a big crowd reaching several thousands, crowd control could have been quite a nightmare. But what the authorities and others saw surprised them. Pasay City police chief Col. Bernard Yang personally dropped in at the convention area and said, “Your preparations are perfect. We of the police unit assigned here for crowd control had felt no stress. Your people are very disciplined and followed all pedestrian rules. They’re all smiles too.” .............. It appears the convention’s theme “Love Never Fails” has proved not just a matter of faith, but a matter of personal conduct for Jehovah’s Witnesses, wherever they may be, in every aspect of their life......etc.

I do not think so many people could pretend, and make this happen, unless they were genuine, and unless they had a measure of God's blessing. In the congregations, individuals feel blessed that they have learned God's standards regarding living a clean life (not smoking, not taking drugs, morality etc.) because they were able to avoid many of the consequences and heartaches these things bring with them. They also feel confident and blessed about a good future for the earth, which many people, even religious ones, do not feel. They also feel confident and blessed about their reward, whether it be earthly or heavenly.

Yes, Jesus Christ died for everyone.

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

And you think 'Only those in JW Org will be saved ?  

Personally? No I don't think that. It would be illogical to think so because there are so many who will never be given an opportunity to be in JW org. There are 8 million Witnesses, and 8 billion people on earth, so statistically it's an impossibility to reach everyone.

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

And yes, the GB said Apostate lies were behind the Child Sexual Abuse 'rumours'. 

No, the GB said that saying we were trying to protect pedophiles were apostate lies. Not that sexual abuse never happened.

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

How will God, through Christ, sort out this total mess ?  How will Jesus be King of a Kingdom full of hypocrites ? 

Wait and see 🙂. And we know Jesus's Kingdom won't be full of hypocrites.

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

And some say the end is nigh. Give it 10 years maybe. That way God and Christ will have hopefully built an earthly Organisation worthy of THEM. 

Yes, leave it to them.

17 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

I would support evidence that can be traced and verified. Ex-witness accounts don't interest me. Were you a JW in the 70s and 80s? There are certain facts that were escuplitory, but never proven. For one, witnesses turned out to be less reliable not just to the Org, but to secular authority. I however am not referring to the Bethel gossip.

I have found from my experience as a JW for more than 30 years, that although you might never get the EXACT details about something, you can be sure of one thing, and that is: if there is smoke, it's because there is, or was a fire.

43 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

3 hours ago, AlanF said:

As for other GB members, by far the worst I know of was Leo Greenlees, who was removed from the GB in late 1984 for sexually molesting a 10-year-old boy. The parents reported the molestation to the Society, and eventually the GB met as a judicial committee to deal with the accusation.

Since this accusation was never proven, do you have supporting evidence that gives us concrete evidence?

I have the feeling this evidence could possibly be in the orgs. files that certain lawyers are trying to get their hands on.

9 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

The motive should not matter, if the charges are truthful. The difference in motive will sometimes show up in the level of carefulness and honesty. So badly motivated persons will often make claims that are not going to be useful as "constructive." They may even backfire in a court of law and discredit the usefulness and value of claims that could have otherwise been constructive.

We often use a scripture that we apply to the congregation, when it actually appears to have more of an application to "secular" authorities:

(Leviticus 5:1) . . .“‘If someone sins because he has heard a public call to testify and he is a witness or has seen or learned about it and he does not report it, then he will answer for his error."

So, there is precedent for bringing to light those activities that "love" the darkness.

This is what I meant 😀 and not only with regard to CSA but anything that we feel is not right.

I need to edit this: not just anything we feel is not right, but that is actually not right scripturally.

To be practical; all those who are concerned about allegations of CSA cover up in HQ, and these allegations come to light, and it is proved some were made deliberately and harmed children, then no doubt justice will be carried out, if not by human hand, then by God's hand. And the organization WILL be cleaned where necessary. In fact, this cleaning is happening all the time, (whether it be regarding doctrine or organisational procedure) because of the imperfection of man, it is something that is necessary and inevitable. It was going on in Bible times and it hasn't stopped. Some of it is immediately visible, some not so much. Some of it happens quickly, some takes more time, but in the end it happens one way or another and will continue to happen. And this is what we all want, isn't it? Some of us may even contribute to some changes personally, and we know worldly institutions have already effected changes for example in the handling of CSA. 
So what is the purpose of some on here who criticize? Surely they are not expecting, or wishing for the organization to cease to exist? That would be unrealistic of course. But if the criticism is constructive, and hopes for a better way of doing things, then that is a good thing. However, if the criticism is merely to tear down, or vent ones anger and dissapointment, then these people forget that the organization is based on faith in God, and that its members will always rely on God for the ultimate solution. So there is no point in unconstructive criticism (when is there ever?) only to vent. And that's also fine if they feel this is a good place for it.

2 hours ago, Bogdan11 said:

I don’t believe I’m allowed to respond to such criticism unless I can get a green light from the website owner. I will wait to receive the rules of engagement and proper protocol with a point of order.

You are allowed to respond to criticism any way you want as long as you are civil and not rude.

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I beginning to understand why the GB are sick. They are mostly American. Maybe that is why i cannot get any sense here.

But the skit is British 😀

4 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

Would dying by refusing a blood transfusion be suicide?

Would dying by going to war for your country be suicide?

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

 I think you miss the point. In the so called bible study, more time is given to the book than is given to God's word.  And the book is uninspired, so only man's viewpoint.  Many who accept a JW 'bible study' are not so highly educated and will be prepared to accept JW teachings and written words as true. But as I've said twice already, the books are to get people into the JW Org, and the information / doctrines / ideas,  change quite often, so cannot be counted on as true. 

I think you've been missing the point all those years ago when you started studying with JWs.

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

and cannot be a substitute for Gods' word.  

I don't ever remember anyone saying, or thinking, or insinuating that JW publications are a substitute for God's word. Even my Bible study, an educated Chemistry teacher, understood the role of JW publications.

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

but this is a JW forum

Are you kidding? 😀

The real JW forum is in...ahem.... the closed club