Anna

22 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

If it is not them, who else could it be?

I think the Pope views himself as trying to fulfill that role also. The question is, is he doing a good job.

42 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

On 11/13/2019 at 6:05 AM, 4Jah2me said:

Elders are supposed to be up to date with all the latest thoughts coming forth from the top HQ, the GB.

:))) yes, supposed. Because "life saving information" have to come from GB onto worldwide elders and from them to flock. That is legal, legitimate and  official way how  "channel" of communication working and is blessed by god. :))))

Well, just shows you can't make people do what you want them to do, people will always do what THEY want to do in the end. The only exception is if they are drugged. It is implied by some on here that the GB controls everyone. Evidently not true 😀

Br. Jackson quote:

"Jesus said that in the last days - and Jehovah's Witnesses believe these are the last  days - there would be a slave, a group of persons who would have responsibility to care for the spiritual food. So in that respect, we view ourselves as trying to fulfill that role".

Whether that view is delusional is subjective 😀

That second video is hilarious @James Thomas Rook Jr.

9 hours ago, Witness said:

You seem to have a lot of mixed feelings about speculation; when its appropriate to speculate, and with whom. And that's okay.  One thing you seem sure of though, David Splane is not telling the truth about the "new light" concerning "this generation".  

No, my feelings are not mixed, everyone is entitled to their thoughts about something, the difference is are you going to make a lot of noise wanting to convince others of your thoughts.

I do not think Splane is deliberately lying. I think he believes what he is saying is the truth.

9 hours ago, Witness said:

Yes, "assumed" in the most wicked sense of the word.  

That's your opinion. Not mine.

23 minutes ago, Arauna said:

In most countries one goes to a technical college to learn a trade - so it is higher education.

But I don't think that's what the WT has in mind. When the WT talks about higher education it means getting a bachelors, masters or doctorate degrees (in the USA). An associate degree is only for 2 years and is more akin to a trade certificate, it seems neither are viewed as "higher education" by the WT.

27 minutes ago, Witness said:

Isn’t it based on a principle that is part of the foundation of the organization?  1914? 

Not sure what you mean by principle. If it's not 1914 it could be1934, or even some other completely different date. Either way, calling whichever date as being part of the foundation of the organization is not important to me.

34 minutes ago, Witness said:

Every teaching on generation revolves around this date, and if anyone verbally rejects this date, they can be disfellowshipped.  

I am not interested in verbally rejecting this date. Who am I to do that? It's either right or wrong, time will tell soon enough and I am not going to lose sleep over it.

38 minutes ago, Witness said:

Can a typical JW distinguish between what is served on “Jehovah’s spiritual table” and what is concocted from the minds of men? 

That I don't know. If someone is like a Beroean, or mindful of the apostle Paul's words regarding this subject, and knows their Bible, then they shouldn't have too much trouble.

43 minutes ago, Witness said:

Yes, anyone has the right to speculate, but does the GB encourage it?  Are you even suppose to “go there” and "speculate" otherwise?

" entice us into discussions of personal speculations or critical conversations"

There is a difference between personal speculations and leaving it there, and forming intense discussions around it as if we want to persuade others to see it our way. Unless it is something extremely important and true, which speculations are not, then who are we to push our personal ideas? As for the GB speculating, well they are in a role where they have assumed the provision of spiritual food. At the same time we are aware they can make mistakes. I shall leave it at that.

28 minutes ago, Witness said:

They will pull another wild card from their sleeve – another David Splane with a chart.......

Will JWs show good sense and finally realize they have been defrauded of truth…for years

Not if you take what they say as speculation on their part. Which is what I think it is. Anyone has the right to speculate. I have no qualms telling Br.Splane that I think his chart is based on speculation. And I'm sure he'd reply that that's my opinion. In which case he is right too. No harm done, we both have our opinion. It's not as if "the Generation" is a fundamental teaching required for salvation is it?

23 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Yes of course Christianity is right, but that does not follow that JW Org is right. Please see my new topic on this.

Here is the link to 4Jah2me topic:

2 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

The Jews would have told Jesus and his disciples that the Jewish way / Mosaic law, was the only game in town.

Yes, of course. But after Jesus established the "new" religion; Christianity, what other game is there? And of course I am not talking about Christendom/Counterfeit Christianity, but about the Christianity that Jesus established. I don't see any other "Christian" religion practicing it in the way that the 1st century Christians did except Jehovah's Witnesses.

21 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

 So tell me what this is all about please ? 

https://ibsaproperty.com/ 

 

The best thing to do would be to write to the UK branch and inquire. Or even call them. It doesn't look like anyone is trying to hide the fact that this is IBSA property. There is even a link to our JW website. So I would definitely call and ask about it. You can post the answer here! Thanks 🙂

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Um, what has happened to me ?  Well I think my head has come out of the clouds and I am now seeing reality. 

Sorry for butting into your conversation, but I feel like I need to comment on this. I am assuming you are at a stage what ex JW's call "waking up" . This is very misleading though because it implies you have been asleep, and now, by finding out all the stuff they have to say, you are getting "real" facts, whereas really, all it is (in the majority of cases) is them letting go of spirituality, and embracing a me only attitude. If that is the way someone wants to go, then they will find many "excuses" which make this transition easier. These people are no longer concerned about what God thinks, this is why the large majority of them have become atheists, because that's so much easier; they don't have to take God into account in what they do in life at all. That's what it's really about. So don't be mislead in thinking you will find enlightment, unless of course you prefer to forget about God, in which case you will agree with everything they say. But if you are concerned about what God thinks, then do your research and you will find that Jehovah's Witnesses, despite their failings and mistakes, are the only true religion, or as even a die hard critic like JTR would say: "Jehovah's Witnesses are the only game in town". 

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

@Anna Well if the GB are right and only those baptised JW's will survive the Judgement time at Armageddon, then one would have to be thinking in line with the Org's thoughts. And as I said originally the 'information' or misinformation was given to me by an elder. Elders are supposed to be up to date with all the latest thoughts coming forth from the top HQ, the GB.  As it matters to me personally because I have hopes of some that have committed suicide getting a resurrection, then I am interested to know how those 'taking the lead'  feel on this subject.   I do find it strange that when i ask such a straight forward question, I cannot get a straight answer. Many here seem to be long standing JW's, some probably are elders, so all I was wanting was a clear answer on the subject.  I must say Anna that your last comment does not show warm Christian love. 

I am sorry, you misunderstood what I meant. I understand your concern about what the GB think, as they are supposed to be providing food at the proper time, and we are supposed to trust that this food is faultless. But sometimes it isn't. We know that although doing their best, the GB can still make mistakes. In that case, what is ultimately more important than what the GB says or thinks, is what Jehovah says and thinks. This is what I had in mind. By reading several related scriptures it becomes evident that the answer to your concern is that we have to leave it in Jehovahs hands, fully trusting that he is the reader of hearts and is perfectly just and loving, and would NEVER destroy anyone unjustly, even if in our opinion they did the most horrible things. So within this framework, it really doesn't matter what the GB think. Again I apologize, I really did not mean it to sound unloving, just factual. 

So when you mention that we have to be in line with the orgs. thoughts, yes, but first and foremost we have to be in line with Jehovah's thoughts.

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I was only asking the present view of suicide from the Organisational point of view.  

Like it really matters though 😀

7 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Well, aren't you the cynical one?

Lol, no, just realistic 😀

I've learned in life, that most decisions, no matter how noble or spiritual they appear, revolve around sex or money or both. Now call me cynical, lol.

2 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

The Catholic church is not afraid to announce that they have had a diocese here and there on the verge of bankruptcy, which is sometimes really no more than loan restructuring. But I don't think anyone is ready for terms like this to be used about us,

Well that is what I had in mind. I agree, we are not ready to have terms like this applied to us. That is why I think that kind of situation is "glossed over" with other terms, such as "Jehovah is guiding this" and "it's for our spiritual benefit to cooperate".

On the other hand, to be fair, I bumped into a couple of single sisters from said KH and they seemed to be pretty happy in their new one. But who knows what the reason is....new hunting grounds perhaps? 😀

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

But I have never had the impression, as Anna has, that they are completely hiding this idea of needing to find new ways to save money

I don't think they're hiding that we need money, (periodic reminders of how much things cost). I just think that sometimes creating new ways of saving money is put forward as a spiritual benefit, rather than what it is, a financial benefit. There's a rumour going round where I live that 25 elders have been demoted because they wouldn't cooperate with the arrangement. I wonder what was on the elders minds? The spiritual benefit, or the financial?

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

The brothers told me that it's not good to build something that looks so much nicer than the neighborhood around you.

Interesting

@JW Insider let me illustrate what I mean, I have mentioned this on here before. After the fall of communism the brothers of one small town in Europe got together and with their own hands and own resources built a beautiful Kingdom Hall. The congregation was thriving well for the next 30 years. Then two years ago, one night at the midweek meeting, it was announced that the KH would be put on the market. No one knew anything about it and it came as a shock. There was a lot of upset, not only about the KH but also about the logistical aspects. There were many old timers there, who did not drive, and relied on the friends in the town to swing by and pick them up for the meeting. Now, the KH everyone was assigned to was 1 hour away.....

This is not an isolated case. I have heard of many other cases similar to this here in the US. We just had a married couple move into our hall for the same reason. They were given a choice where they wanted to go, but every KH was 2 hrs away, so they moved into our territory. It wasn't too much trouble for them as they are a young couple and both pioneers. Not so sure what the older ones did....by the way, the territory this pioneer couple lived in was very country. I guess now it will become one of those once a year worked territories.

PS. I wanted this last bit to be separate, but it still got merged with the previous reply...

18 hours ago, Outta Here said:

"Better use of dedicated funds" is a phrase I hear frequently. Isn't that more appropriate? "Saving" money implies hoarding it up somewhere. I think we are more in the business of using resources aren't we?. Compare Matt.25:24-27 😊

Yes, that is better put, and I have heard brothers say this. Of course we aren't going to hoard any money because we know what the scriptures say about that. But that wasn't really what I was talking about. It was more to do with it being Jehovah's direction. But then JWI will probably remind me that since we are a faith based organization, then anything we do will ultimately be seen as God's direction, even if something isn't.. I don't really have a problem with that. What I don't like seeing is this being used as some kind of tool to make people acquiesce, or as a kind of passive aggressive manipulation by some, or as a cause for being judgemental. ie. If you don't obey, you must be less spiritual than me. With so many unbalanced individuals around, this could cause unnecessary stress I think. What I'm trying to say is I would prefer if it was presented as it really is: a sound financial decision which "makes better use of donated funds" and in order for it to work, your cooperation and support is needed and appreciated, and thank you.  🙂

14 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

Because it's a mind controlling technique to brainwash you into believing that the governing body is Jehovah.

That’s not what I had in mind. In fact every Witness knows that the GB is not Jehovah. But they also know that the Bible talks about obeying those taking the lead, i.e. the elders in a congregation which includes members of the GB since they are also elders. Do you have something against that scripture?

14 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

It is good that you are questioning their tactics.

I don't need your approval 🙂

On 11/7/2019 at 3:59 PM, JW Insider said:

but the Society has learned through very expensive mistakes, to give them leadership roles in these teams.

All the redrawing and reshuffling of boundaries and the sell off of some Kingdom Halls and the merging of some congregations is probably because a few financial experts were finally allowed to sit down and ascertain the efficiency (or lack of) of the way Kingdom Halls were being used. They called it equalizing. When I hear brothers say that obeying the restructuring, and cooperating with moving to different halls is obeying Jehovah, (was also in a video) I can't help wondering why they don't just say it's because it saves money. Why bring Jehovah into it and make people feel like they're sinning against Him if they don't cooperate. 

5 hours ago, Witness said:

I had in mind the Redwood tree, which is related to the Cedar

I had in mind the Cedar, which I think is tree 1 @TrueTomHarley

20 hours ago, JW Insider said:

. D543 R362:3 R5527:1 Q23:7

Which books is this from?

2 hours ago, Tom Henry said:

Do you believe, revision to be a bad thing? Why would anyone want to stay stale with their understanding

No Allen....I mean Tom. Revision is a good thing. The problem is when we state something as fact one year, and then change it the next. One thing is building on an idea, pretty much the way technology and the medical field develop, but another is completely changing ones mind. The equivalent is maybe what psychologists do, they seem to change their minds, one time they say it's better to let a child do what it wants, and then when negative results are reaped, they say it's better to discipline a child. A kind of trial and error approach. Similarly, when what JW's teach does not work out, then we try the next "theory". Think generation.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

To be zealous about something can be seen as obsession,

True. We do however have a positive and negative connotation. In the case of someone obsessed with criticizing an organization made up of mostly good people, doing good things, that is a negative connotation of the word obsession. On the other hand, being "obsessed" about doing JHVH's will would have a positive connotation. In general though obsession seems more negative that positive, therefor zeal in this case would be a better choice in my opinion. Of course you can also be zealous for the wrong thing (apostle Paul when he was Saul).

And then there is the perfume 😀

7 hours ago, Witness said:

Do you remember what fell into his hands?  "Damning contents" of a box of "sins described in the letters ranged from the mundane—smoking pot, marital infidelity, drunkenness—to the horrifying"...and the "secret database of child abuse".

It explains his obsession.  

Yes, all people are sinners and can do horrible things. We all know that. His obsession is unreasonable because he isn't going to change people is he? Plus half the things he says are false, and badly argued. As an example, he puts down the Witnesses for not joining the rest of the world in support of LGBT groups, clearly something condemned by God. Then again he doesn't care what God thinks, as he is a self proclaimed atheist....

Can an obsession be counted as mental disease?

According to the dictionary one of the synonyms of obsession is mania, and the dictionary defines mania as: mental illness marked by periods of great excitement or euphoria, delusions, and overactivity. Further, the synonyms for mania are: madness, dementia, insanity, lunacy, psychosis and mental illness, among a few.

If we are going to use the man whose name is a type of tree as an example, then we can see he fits the bill quite well as he is completely obsessed, totally consumed with the JW's. Not even sure he has a regular job because all his time is taken up by making videos, writing his blog and doing research.

15 hours ago, Witness said:

) “Do you understand that your baptism identifies you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with Jehovah’s organization?” 

There would be no need for this question if "Christianity" was as it was in the 1st century; pure and unadulterated by pagan beliefs and pemissive morals. There would also be no need to be called Jehovah's Witnesses, or Jehovah's organization.

1 minute ago, Shiwiii said:

but you disregard the part " ONLY THEN WILL THEY SURVIVE..."  meaning if one is not baptized a jw, they will not survive. 

you just made my point. 

Baptism is only possible for those who have made those initial steps first. Obviously, not every single person on earth will have been given the chance to even take the first step. Therefor the WT statement cannot apply to those people, but it applies to those who are able to take the steps leading to baptism. That is the context.

3 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

 

Definition of context: the parts of a written or spoken statement that precede or follow a specific word or passage, usually influencing its meaning or effect. - Dictionary.com

This means that what is said prior to a statement, forms the idea behind the thought or meaning. Nothing in the printed publications give the idea you claim here when the wt states that one must be a baptized jw. 

It most certainly  does: "This means trying to motivate people to make the truth their own by applying what they learn, dedicating their life to Jehovah, and getting baptized. Only then will they survive Jehovah’s day".—

Obviously getting baptised cannot apply unless they have first  made the truth their own, applied what they learn, and dedicated their life to Jehovah.