Anna

That is what the USDA (United States Department of Agriculture) would hope too.

That is truly a sad situation. It would be nice if there was some organizational provision whereby these old ones would be taken care of. It is always hoped that the elders, who have the sheep in their care, take care of their sheep in this matter also. The problem is that the situation can get quite complicated. The elders do not want to and shouldn't interfere in the affairs of others. For example when the older parent moves in with unbelieving family, then the elders have no right to tell that family what the parent should be and should not be able to do. I know sometimes the elderly parent has no choice but to be dependent on and live with unbelieving children. It would be good in those cases if, as you say, if these elderly parents could go and live in a JW run assisted living not just in America but all over the world. We still do not have a charitable arrangement whereby this could be done. Also when it comes to lifesaving surgery, there is no fund for those Brothers and Sisters who cannot afford to pay these medical expenses. It is usually left up to charitable acts by worldly organizations, or other ways to raise money. For instance the little girl Phelicity Sneesby who was featured in one of our videos (and is also part of the video for the Courage song), her family went into enormous debt to pay for all her expensive surgeries and she received most of the funding for her flight home from worldly charitable donations and from other brothers and sisters. I am not saying the JW organization didn't contribute, I don't know, and I have not heard. I know our organization's main mission is spiritual, however, I am sure Jesus also spoke about looking after his sheep physically. We seem to be doing quite well when it comes to disaster relief, but we do not have anything in place for other types of disaster.

Thank you for your expressions. I wanted to respond a little sooner than this but I ran out of time. Here are my thoughts on some of the things you mention. Just my two cents 😀. I used to think the same way, but just because it says update, doesn't mean the actual content is changed (like different wording of a scripture for example) but it is more to do with technical updates to make things compatible with constant changes and updates in the way various operating systems work, similar to windows system, Firefox etc. It is normal for any websites to do that. If there are any doctrinal or organizational changes, then we are usually made aware of them in a WT study. That would be a cool thing for those who like to dig deep.I noticed sometimes there are references to further reading, but not often. I don't know, but perhaps because everything is being simplified, sort of like we've already researched all the subjects, so no need to keep bringing it up, time to move on kind of thing. The publications with all those references are still available for anyone to read and research though. I understand some of the things you are saying regarding this subject. I especially agree with your last two points. I suppose striving for hours is an incentive some people need. It would be great if the friends would put in pioneer hours without actually pioneering. But we mustn't forget that if a publisher signs up to be a pioneer, then they know what they are doing, they know they are committing themselves to a certain promise. The problem is why are they doing it. Is it because they need an incentive, or is it because they like the title? If I am not mistaken, there is no specific regulation which says you can't do those things you have described. For example when going door to door in a remote village in one Easter European country, the brothers do not wear a tie because the locals would get confused and suspicious, and not be open to discussions. It is always a good idea to adapt our preaching according to local circumstances. We should never be stuck on just one way. With the counting...I read somewhere that JWs keep the best and most reliable records. If there is any kind of worldly survey carried out, for example with regard to the numbers (members) of a particular religion, they always seem to trust the JW numbers the most. Haha, that would be funny. I don't think that will ever happen because it's too judgmental. But I understand your point! I think it's obvious that the reaction to a new Bible would be very positive. Therefor I don't think this was so much a request for information, but a confirmation of a "work well done". However the questions you propose, are on a different level and would require an awful lot of work sifting through the submissions. But I agree. I think JW Insider mentioned something about a "suggestion box" option on our website. Or even a "ask questions" box. I think both would be a very good idea. At the moment as you say, it is left up to the CO's to give some kind of report. But the thing is, many friends do not like to bring an issue up which they think might be viewed controversial or even rebellious. I know I don't. But if these comments could be made anonymously on the website, then I am sure the organization would get a much better idea of the state of the congregations and friends. The problem is some kind of mechanism would have to be put into effect that prevented just ANYONE from commenting. That way people who were merely trouble makers (opposers etc.) wouldn't clog up the whole site, or give the wrong impression that the friends were having these problems, whereas it would really be ex- witnesses. To be honest we don't have that problem in my congregation. There are many excellent auxiliary answers given. I suppose it depends on the congregation. Although we are all united, each congregation has its unique style/character. That's why you get some people "shopping" for a congregation they like, if they are not happy in the one they are at. I agree completely! I always go to sleep when they do that. I don't see the point. I think that this is already going on to a certain point isn't it? Also I know that things have been simplified where there are no longer room cleaners, each person must clean their own room for example. I think something like that exists in the USA. https://jjha.community/about/ But I don't think it is organized by the society. Yes. Don't you just love it when an older single brother with no children tries to give you counsel about yours? Oh yes, the notorious beard issue! 🐵 A few weeks ago, in my mum's congregation, a young ministerial servant decided to grow a beard. My mum told me that the elders told him that if he wants to keep on carrying the mikes he will have to shave the beard off. This is in a country where beards are socially acceptable, and in some congregations there are elders with beards. Not many, but I know one personally. I told my mum that usually it is up to the body of elders to decide because they should know the territory well and know whether it would offend an outsider or not. She then told me that 1. my dad (an elder) wasn't told about it, and 2. there is absolutely no aversion to beards by the public as many people wear one. I asked her if this young brother was a "rebellious" type. She said not at all. Logically, he must have been qualified in order to become a min. servant. So as you can see, there is already a problem because certain elders have taken it upon themselves to decide on the matter without consulting the whole body. Who knows, these elders may not like beards, so it becomes personal, rather than theocratic. They have the Co's visit right now, so she told me she would let me know what happens. The other thing is, which I find odd, is that apparently if he shaves it off, they won't address the issue (!) I feel like telling the brother, don't shave it off, because this issue needs to be handled properly first. And once it's handled properly, and they still ask him to shave it off, then that is a different matter. As regards the photos, yes, I agree, on the one hand we are told in the WT that beards are ok in some cultures, but then on the other hand shaving a beard off is used as an example of spiritual progress. It confuses people. (P.S. Quite a large number of elders I know grow a beard while on vacation, and don't mind posting pictures on Instagram or FB, so they are not hiding it, but then once they go back to the meeting they shave it off). I will comment on the doctrinal part next time. (when I have more time).

No. Unless she is very very subtle. The main thrust of the laws do not even specifically target religion, though she may be no friend of it. Others have point it that way. It doesn't have to be the main thrust does it? You have probably researched this subject a lot more than I have in view of your book about it . I do know that the main thrust of the law is counter-terrorism, however, it appears that certain amendments to it definitely target evangelism, in other words "restrictions on sharing beliefs, including where and who may share them" and "the amendments to the Religion Law restrict those who can share beliefs to people with permission from members of state-registered religious groups and organisations" and "the amendments also restrict the beliefs that can be shared, specifies a restricted list of places where beliefs may be shared, and explicitly bans any beliefs from being shared in residential buildings, or on another association's property without permission" quotes from HERE. I am sure there is more, but to me just this, appears not even subtle, since there would be no problem IF permission was given. The question is, in the case of Jehovah's Witnesses, why isn't permission given? It looks a lot like somebody was doing somebody else a favor....in return for other favors perhaps? Politicians are just people after all...

Did he explain what we were before then? I wonder if Rutherford would think the same today, since we are a religion now. He probably would, because religion IS a snare and a racket, except for the true religion 🙂.

I see you are trying to bring something positive to a negative post 🙂. The truth is though, apostates are an entirely different category to the average person who never was one of Jehovah's Witnesses. The average non Witness would probably side with us, and not Apostates. Nobody likes bullies, and would wonder why all the vitriol. There are a number of people who are for us, even doctors concerning the blood issue for example. (Found on our website). Just the other day on the ministry I had a lady who thanked us and told us she admired what we do. This wasn't the first time someone said something like this, and I am sure all of us had someone like that at some time. On the other hand we should expect to be hated (by the public) because Jesus said so. And we should also expect opposition from those who were once among us. A few days ago I was doing some reading on the Yarovaya Law (the law responsible for all the trouble for the Witnesses in Russia), and found that this law was created by a woman named Irina Yarovaya. This got me to wondering whether her "attack" on religion (besides Orthodox) was actually personal, and whether her attack on evangelism specifically, was even more personal. Then all kinds of ideas came to mind. Did she have a family member who became a Witness and refused blood, or higher education etc. did she blame the Witnesses? Then a plethora of other situations came to mind but I will not post them here because they could be deemed defamatory. (All I will say is pictures speak a thousand words and Russian women are in a league of their own. I can think of a few lady Bible characters though as well).

I think I must know you quite well by now because as I typed "medium", the thought immediately crossed my mind that you might jump at the opportunity to somehow take the Mickey..... No, stop, leave Mickey alone

Then there's the happy medium with no villains but friends who are realistic. These are to be found on the JW closed club here. You should try it sometime . (I know you've been there, but not nearly often enough)

I agree. As you said, Chronology could be one of those things where we can still do our best with all the good things we have, without having to be convinced about something like this. In any case, many actively don't want to research or be presented with arguments against it (1914). As if the 1914 doctrine is somehow infallible. And those who have tried, found themselves on the carpet or the proverbial room 101 and subsequently disfellowshipped. In my opinion, not feeling free to make sure if all things is dangerous because it can be likened to the laity in Christendom, who just believe because they were born into the religion. They just take their spiritual leaders word for it, and prefer it to stay that way (trinity, hellfire, immortal soul). How many of those rank and file in Christendom can really defend their teachings? I think most of us Witnesses however could defend our belief on these subjects and include unambiguous scriptural backing, without mental gymnastics. With 1914 though, that is an entirely different story. This is why when I share the "good news" with people, I like to use the Good news brochure's simple and brief scriptural explanation and leave it at that*. Generally people accept it and don't ask for further detail because those scriptures are what completely suffices. I think we get ourselves into a pickle when we try and explain WHEN will these things happen and put a kind of time frame on it. But on the other hand, can we be blamed for that? Didn't the disciples ask "when?" In answer, and among other things Jesus told them : “Therefore, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken about by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place (let the reader use discernment), then let those in Ju·deʹa begin fleeing to the mountains". (Matthew 24.) In its initial fulfillment, we believe the disgusting thing was the pagan Roman army plundering the 'holy place' the temple in Jerusalem. Regarding its modern day fulfillment, the wt99 5/1 p. 16-17 says this: A Modern-Day “Disgusting Thing” 7. What prophecy of Jesus is being fulfilled in our time? 7 Since World War I, we have seen the larger fulfillment of Jesus’ sign recorded in Matthew chapter 24. Yet, recall his words: “When you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation . . . standing in a holy place, . . . then let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains.” (Matthew 24:15, 16) This aspect of the prophecy must have a fulfillment in our time too. 8. For years, how have Jehovah’s Witnesses identified “the disgusting thing” in modern times? 8 Demonstrating the confidence of Jehovah’s servants that this prophecy would be fulfilled, The Watchtower of January 1, 1921, focused on it in connection with developments in the Middle East. Subsequently, in its December 15, 1929, issue, on page 374, The Watchtower definitively said: “The whole tendency of the League of Nations is to turn the people away from God and from Christ, and it is therefore a desolating thing, the product of Satan, and an abomination in the sight of God.” So in 1919 “the disgusting thing” appeared. In time, the League gave way to the United Nations. Jehovah’s Witnesses have long exposed these human peace organizations as disgusting in God’s sight. 9, 10. How did an earlier understanding of the great tribulation influence our view of the time when “the disgusting thing” would stand in a holy place? 9 The preceding article summarized a clarified view of much of Matthew chapters 24 and 25. Is some clarification in order regarding ‘the disgusting thing standing in a holy place’? Apparently so. Jesus’ prophecy closely links the “standing in a holy place” with the outbreak of the foretold “tribulation.” Hence, even though “the disgusting thing” has long existed, the link between its “standing in a holy place” and the great tribulation should affect our thinking. How so? 10 God’s people once understood that the first phase of the great tribulation began in 1914 and that the final part would come at the battle of Armageddon. (Revelation 16:14, 16; compare The Watchtower, April 1, 1939, page 110.) So we can understand why it was once thought that the latter-day “disgusting thing” must have stood in a holy place soon after World War I. 11, 12. In 1969, what readjusted view of the great tribulation was presented? 11 However, in later years we have come to see things differently. On Thursday, July 10, 1969, at the “Peace on Earth” International Assembly in New York City, F. W. Franz, then vice president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, gave an electrifying talk. In reviewing the previous understanding of Jesus’ prophecy, Brother Franz said: “The explanation was given that the ‘great tribulation’ had begun in 1914 C.E. and that it was not allowed to run its full course then but God stopped World War I in November of 1918. From then on God was allowing an interval for the activity of his anointed remnant of elect Christians before he let the final part of the ‘great tribulation’ resume at the battle of Armageddon.” 12 Then a significantly adjusted explanation was offered: “To correspond with the events of the first century, . . . the antitypical ‘great tribulation’ did not begin in 1914 C.E. Rather, what took place upon Jerusalem’s modern antitype in 1914-1918 was merely ‘a beginning of pangs of distress’ . . . The ‘great tribulation’ such as will not occur again is yet ahead, for it means the destruction of the world empire of false religion (including Christendom) followed by the ‘war of the great day of God the Almighty’ at Armageddon.” This meant that the entire great tribulation was yet ahead. 13. Why is it logical to say that there will be a future ‘standing in a holy place’ by “the disgusting thing”? 13 This has a direct bearing on discerning when “the disgusting thing” stands in a holy place. Recall what happened in the first century. The Romans attacked Jerusalem in 66 C.E., but they abruptly withdrew, which allowed Christian “flesh” to be saved. (Matthew 24:22) Accordingly, we expect the great tribulation to begin soon, but it will be cut short for the sake of God’s chosen ones. Note this key point: In the ancient pattern, ‘the disgusting thing standing in a holy place’ was linked to the Roman attack under General Gallus in 66 C.E. The modern-day parallel to that attack—the outbreak of the great tribulation—is still ahead. So “the disgusting thing that causes desolation,” which has existed since 1919, apparently is yet to stand in a holy place.* How will this happen? And how can we be affected? Ummm.....OK, sorry, this needs to be in a different topic 🙄 *Good news brochure -What is Jesus doing now? When on earth, Jesus cured the sick, raised the dead, and rescued people in peril. He thereby demonstrated what he will do in the future for all obedient mankind. (Matthew 15:30, 31; John 5:28) After Jesus died, God restored him to life as a spirit person. (1 Peter 3:18) Jesus then waited at God’s right hand until Jehovah gave him power to rule as King over all the earth. (Hebrews 10:12, 13) Now Jesus is ruling as King in heaven, and his followers are announcing that good news worldwide.—Read Daniel 7:13, 14; Matthew 24:14. Soon, Jesus will use his power as King to bring an end to all suffering and to those who cause it. All who exercise faith in Jesus by obeying him will enjoy life in a paradise on earth.—Read Psalm 37:9-11.

An example of an anti type, and we know what we think of anti types lately: " Over the years, Jehovah has helped “the faithful and discreet slave” to become more discreet, or cautious. In what way? Now the faithful slave is careful to say that a Bible account represents something greater only when there is a clear Scriptural reason to do so." ws15 3/15 p. 6 Is there a good scriptural reason to use Nebuchadnezzar's rulership as applying to Jesus? I don't know, I haven't researched it enough. And this is the crux of the matter. I am a perfect example of an average Witness, who really just takes this particular doctrine as matter of fact without thoroughly "making sure whether it is so". Why? Because it is darn time consuming and complicated. And I would say at least 95% of Witnesses feel the same way. Which means 95% of Witnesses believe this doctrine without having convinced themselves whether it is really true or not. Hmmmm.......

I don't know, I might argue with you on that one..

Yes, that is exactly what I was alluding to. So I wonder, is this perhaps the reason why we do not generally use this prophesy to convince people of the Bible's accuracy? Because it is just too ambiguous, and you can't really prove the fulfillment of it because most of it was invisible. By the same token, why are we, the insiders, expected to believe this as fact? The answer 👇

Really well written @JW Insider. Funny you should mention the magazines. Just the other day I was reading the #1/2020 WT "The search for Truth" which I think is also excellent. But it got me wondering about something. Under the subheading Why you can trust the Bible,- prophetic truth, it gives the example of a Bible prophesy and its fulfillment. So what I started wondering about is do we ever talk about the fulfillment of the prophesy about Jesus' kingship as happening in 1914 in the same way as we do about other prophesies that were fulfilled? For example, why wouldn't we use this prophesy to convince people that they can trust the Bible in place of the one that was used. In theory, we should be able to. I am not saying 1914 has never been mentioned previously in magazines meant for the public, but has it ever been used as proof of the fulfillment of Bible prophesy with regard to Jesus and his enthronement. (I am not talking about things happening a proof of the "last days"). Am I making any sense? Excellent point. I once called those other things "fluff" on a JW only forum and got reprimanded

Everything that is good belongs to God.

I would know that's you without a doubt!

Yes please, do post some examples. Although all this is hugely off topic, who cares.

Sounds like Allen Smith is in a tizzy for having to create multiple new accounts........AGAIN! Allen, you can come out now, we know it's you!

Can you tell me how that is possible in practice? How can someone cause a division among the brothers if no one hears of it because it's in private?

I'm almost willing to put money on it, that the new 'trio' is you know who....

Yes, common sense is great! A few weeks ago, we had the video about the brother getting a bit materialistic and buying a big TV, a fancy coffee maker and fancy car. After study and meditating he realised it was not a good idea so he went and took these things back and he replaced the TV with a really small one. On the way home, the COBE and his wife joked about it in the car (I was getting a ride with them). She said; "did he really have to replace it with the size of a computer monitor"? (lols from all of us) "I mean come on, you'd need a pair of glasses to see that!" (more lols). Me: "so on Sunday when you are at our house for FS you know what you're going to see on our wall" (now really cracking up...tears rolling down face). This back and forth and laughter lasted till we almost got to my house. Of course the conclusion was that this extremism was for illustrative purposes only, and not to be taken literally. However, we all agreed that in the past, and even now, some friends might take it literally... Later on my husband made a point that on a very small TV, one could still watch the bad programs, if you sat really close that is (lol).

Sniff, sniff, sniff.....I can smell Allen Smith

Well you've got to be reasonable. The question is; is our employment closely and consistently tied with false religion. One off things don't count I'm sure. One thing is fixing a church HVAC, and another is specializing in polishing church steeples.

Read the club guidelines and that might give you an idea. It is up to you what you want to discuss, and the tone you want to set, especially when you create your own topic. No one is going to make you be part of any discussion, helpful or unhelpful. It is up to you what discussion you join. And the good thing is, if you don't like the club, then there is a button at the top right hand corner which says "leave club" and that will delete your membership.

That's because they DON'T just get up and move on.