Anna

1 hour ago, Jack Ryan said:

@The Librarian @JW Insider The whole idea of you guys following other men as to what is "permissible" is repugnant to people who have been taught critical thinking skills.

Science has left religion and customs of desert nomads from 5,000 years ago literally in the dust.

Time to find newer books to spend your days on.

Have you considered learning a new skill in coding? Maybe medicine / health?

Much more productive than spending your time as a people wondering if beards are ok or why you are all forced to wear suits and ties for walking down the street.

 

Hey critical thinker, why are you on here?

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Because that is the real world. If you had a good childhood then you probs will not understand, but if you had a very strict JW upbringing then you might. 

I did have a good childhood. My mum was baptised when I was 6. I still remember celebrating our last Christmas and birthday. Since then I didn't miss either of them one bit. I guess I was lucky to have a mum who although very spiritual, was also very balanced, and had her own mind. We never missed one meeting unless sick. We were regular in service. We really lived the "truth" which included having fun. So yes, my childhood was pretty cool. Of course when I hit teenage-hood I balked at some things, and the only thing that worked was not what my mum said, it was not what the elders said, but it was what the Bible said. I could not argue with the Bible. Mum figured it out real quick so as long as she could support anything with scriptures, I was good with it, albeit a bit reluctantly sometimes.

As regards very strict upbringing, I guess you mean where the parents are unreasonable and rule the house in a kind of dictatorship rather than a Christian way. Most of the kids brought up that way are no longer JW's. And in some cases neither are the parents. The funny thing is, they blame the org. but the org. has never endorsed unreasonable parents, on the contrary, all the publications out there, for children and teenagers and parents encourage reasonableness and are full of excellent advice. In fact here is the latest magazine about rearing children. If you find anything wrong with it let me know: https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/awake-no2-2019-jul-aug/

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

they knew it was totally wrong in the late 1800's

You have evidence for that?

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Mature ones would not be stumbled by his eating meat that had been sacrificed to an idol.

With beards, the situation was the complete opposite. New ones and unbelievers generally had no problem with them, but mature ones would balk.

Good observation there TT

7 hours ago, Outta Here said:

free of food debris

"That is if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again have food debris in my beard"

16 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

So as i say it then becomes 'traditions of men'. 

It's not so much about the traditions of men but more about not stumbling someone, the principle of which Paul spoke about in 1Cor 8:13. "That is why if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat at all, so that I will not make my brother stumble". Some communities really have something against beards, and others do not. Therefor it is up to the elders in each congregation and country to discern if a brother wearing a beard could somehow stumble someone, whether a JW or not. As Space Merchant said, a lot of it is down to culture and also down to respect for others. JTR shaved his beard off to make his dad happy. Nothing wrong with that. It's all about unselfishness really, and putting the other persons interest first. That is a Christ like trait. 

41 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

...and I will endure things like this also.

  "But the one who has endured to the end will be saved". ( Matthew 24:13)

OMG, you two stop!

27 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

but I do have a feeling you do not have much experience of real life in the real world. Have you always been hidden in the JW Org, kept behind that fence, not allowed to do any research or even to go out and see real life for yourself ? 

It's like a jungle out there, sometimes i wonder how i keep from going under.'  (Just a bit of rap or hip hop, but oh so true)

....One problem is that children get baptised very young and then regret it. When they then get to teenage years they don't want to follow through on serving the JW Org so they turn against it.

But John, we are not discussing the big wide world out there. We are talking about JW parents chucking their underage children out of the house. And again you have confirmed that there is safety within Jehovah's Witnesses, since as you say "it's like a jungle out there", in the big wide world, and that we are all deluded not knowing the "real" life that's out there, because our life.......ahem.....must be pretty calm in comparison.

Like I said, there are always two sides to a story. In any case, the mind boggles as to why a teenager would prefer living on the streets and sofa surfing to living at home abiding by a few rules until they are able to leave home and fend for themselves properly.

11 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

have you now come to embrace the Trinity and hellfire for the miscreants?

Well this is sooo funny too. Someone on my FB Ex-JW page has today asked me the same questions ? 

Is this normal JW training then ? To try to insult people by asking such stupid questions.

How about TRUTH ? Oh of course the JW Org knows nothing about that does it ? 

Just piping in here. You might think it's an insulting question, but who taught you the TRUTH about the Trinity and hellfire? I sure know it wasn't any of Christendom's religions....

"Would you chuck you children out on the streets to live like that" ?

As has been mention already on here, it's not that simple and there are always two sides to a story. Always.

99.9% of the time both sides have a choice. The parent has the right to set ground rules. He is not going to chuck anybody out just because of some trivial triviality or argument (unlike what I've seen in the world). Plus, it's illegal to toss out a minor, which in most civilized countries means no younger than 16/17y. In a JW household, in most cases, the young adult is given an ultimatum, and chooses to leave or stay on that basis. If they choose to leave, most immature young adults will call that "being chucked out".

Of course there is the occasional 15 year old that runs away, and also calls it being "chucked out"

2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

 

It has helped make me the man I am today!

😅

8 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Also, I think it will help make sense of my post.

Yes, I read a brief synopsis and I see where you are coming from. It sounds like the kind of movie I would enjoy. Have to see if Netflix has it...

1 minute ago, JW Insider said:

Did you see the movie? Did you like it?

No, I didn't see the movie. Is it a must see?

14 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

You see how some guys use this world     Love of the world and it's food. 

Of course, I never denied any of this, if you read my reply....

9 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

It would be a week in the late 1960's before I got totally 'drawn into' the Jehovah's Witnesses. A nice young lady from Ireland came to live in a bedsit in the house right next door to the one I lived in. The landlord owned both houses and both front doors were always open. Of course each person had the key to their own room, so no one could just walk in, but it was nice when i got invited in. Unfortunately she was a Catholic and I was just beginning to learn about Jehovah, so the 'friendship' didn't last more than a year, but it was lovely whilst it did last. 

Hope your wife isn't reading this!

16 hours ago, JW Insider said:

So I ended up watching Bill Murray in Groundhog Day about 30 times in one week.

Or maybe that was just a dream. . . . Or maybe I just made this up. .

Why would you want to re-live that? (Even if it was a dream or you made it up).

What's this about allowed/not allowed to have a beard? You can do what you want. You will just be limited in what privileges you get in some congregations. So it's up to you. Thankfully sisters don't have beard restrictions. A sister with a beard can still pioneer 😀

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Or same as to humans but on different level. Searching for food, or even growing and collect food, creating family and offspring, care of them, fight for survive, showing affection to same and other species, etc. Cows give more milk after listening classical music :))) Speaker didn't done enough research on subject.

I am sure the speaker wouldn't argue with you on that. But the main point remains: animals were not created in God's image, whereas humans were.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I would say 99.9% of the human race love the things of the world, including most JW's. Remember it was not that long ago I was one. JW's here in the UK are still having new houses built for them, still working long hours, still buying new cars. Still having parties, rather strange fancy dress parties actually, Elders dressing up as Batman and Incredible Hulk and putting photos up on their Facebook pages. No different to people of the world. Those things are not bad of course but what I'm saying is that most JW's here in the UK are 'still using the world to the full

Thank you for supporting the point I was trying to make. Yes, the majority of mankind, which includes many, many JWs, love the things in the world. So as you see, it's not enough to

6 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

 know that there will be a judgement time

I am sure you will agree that anyone who is concerned about this situation is moved to frequently remind the brothers and sisters of the urgency to keep on the watch.  Hence the magazine  "Why we must keep on the watch"

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-july-2016/why-keep-on-the-watch/

3 minutes ago, Melinda Mills said:

This is what I understood the speaker to say: Don't elevate animals to status of man. Man was made in God's image and has the ability to love, appreciate wisdom, reasoning, music and poetry and worship. Animals can't do that.  The speaker also cited the  Leona Hemsley  and what she left in her will for her dog (and to have him buried beside her). He said to show love to our great God, Jehovah. Jehovah will provide for us as he provides for the birds who are assured of confident eating ( Matt 6:26).

Seems pretty reasonable to me.

Request please:  would people refrain from down voting or up voting the arrow on the left because it throws the whole thread out of sinc and makes it harder to follow replies. It seems to be automatically set on "sort by votes" so if you want to see the chronological order of comments you have to keep clicking  "sort by date". It just gets to be a pain after a while.

23 minutes ago, Melinda Mills said:

I will post what I heard

I wonder if you could post this in the topic where this was previously discussed.

7 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

 After such an uplifting Convention?

 

Melinda, sorry, off topic in this topic, but as discussed prior to your convention, (forget under which topic it was) did you notice anything said about "not loving animals"?

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

It is enough just to know that there will be a judgement time. And it is enough to know that God will decide when. 

Anything beyond that goes beyond the things written. 

Keep on the watch does not mean make false announcements. It does not mean frighten people into staying in an organisation.  People should be content with the 'mana', God's word the Bible. People should not need threats or blackmail. 

As the song goes 'Where is the love?' 

These are the things that are written:

"Do not love either the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him; 16  because everything in the world—the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one’s means of life—does not originate with the Father, but originates with the world" (1John 2:15)

John, honestly, what percentage of people would you say "love" the things in the world?

"....... you know the season, that it is already the hour for you to awake from sleep, for now our salvation is nearer than at the time when we became believers. 12  The night is well along; the day has drawn near. Let us therefore throw off the works belonging to darkness and let us put on the weapons of the light. 13  Let us walk decently as in the daytime, not in wild parties and drunkenness, not in immoral intercourse and brazen conduct, not in strife and jealousy. 14  But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not be planning ahead for the desires of the flesh". (Romans13:11-14)

 “But pay attention to yourselves that your hearts never become weighed down with overeating and heavy drinking and anxieties of life, and suddenly that day be instantly upon you  as a snare. For it will come upon all those dwelling on the face of the whole earth. 36  Keep awake, then, all the time making supplication that you may succeed in escaping all these things that must occur and in standing before the Son of man.” (Luke 21:34-35)

The above scriptures I conveniently extracted from a July 2016 study WT article "Why must we keep on the watch". 

The article concludes: "Through the pages of the Bible, God and Christ tell us what they have in store for us in the immediate future and how we can keep on the watch. We have to pay attention to our spirituality, to our relationship with Jehovah, and to Kingdom priorities. We must be aware of time and events so that we can be ready for what is coming. (Rev. 22:20) Our life is at stake!

Perhaps you might want to peruse the article to check that there is nothing beyond what is written in the scriptures.

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-july-2016/why-keep-on-the-watch/