Anna

Request please: would people refrain from down voting or up voting the arrow on the left because it throws the whole thread out of sinc and makes it harder to follow replies. It seems to be automatically set on "sort by votes" so if you want to see the chronological order of comments you have to keep clicking "sort by date". It just gets to be a pain after a while.

I wonder if you could post this in the topic where this was previously discussed.

Melinda, sorry, off topic in this topic, but as discussed prior to your convention, (forget under which topic it was) did you notice anything said about "not loving animals"?

These are the things that are written: "Do not love either the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him; 16 because everything in the world—the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one’s means of life—does not originate with the Father, but originates with the world" (1John 2:15) John, honestly, what percentage of people would you say "love" the things in the world? "....... you know the season, that it is already the hour for you to awake from sleep, for now our salvation is nearer than at the time when we became believers. 12 The night is well along; the day has drawn near. Let us therefore throw off the works belonging to darkness and let us put on the weapons of the light. 13 Let us walk decently as in the daytime, not in wild parties and drunkenness, not in immoral intercourse and brazen conduct, not in strife and jealousy. 14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not be planning ahead for the desires of the flesh". (Romans13:11-14) “But pay attention to yourselves that your hearts never become weighed down with overeating and heavy drinking and anxieties of life, and suddenly that day be instantly upon you as a snare. For it will come upon all those dwelling on the face of the whole earth. 36 Keep awake, then, all the time making supplication that you may succeed in escaping all these things that must occur and in standing before the Son of man.” (Luke 21:34-35) The above scriptures I conveniently extracted from a July 2016 study WT article "Why must we keep on the watch". The article concludes: "Through the pages of the Bible, God and Christ tell us what they have in store for us in the immediate future and how we can keep on the watch. We have to pay attention to our spirituality, to our relationship with Jehovah, and to Kingdom priorities. We must be aware of time and events so that we can be ready for what is coming. (Rev. 22:20) Our life is at stake! Perhaps you might want to peruse the article to check that there is nothing beyond what is written in the scriptures. https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-july-2016/why-keep-on-the-watch/

If we are to trust the dating of the archeological site in question, then it looks like Adam must have been created a lot earlier then 😃

I know.

I do not believe that. But we are both entitled to our opinion 🙂

Sounds a bit like you 🙂

I understand you may be concerned about adding anything to scripture (or taking away), since that is a very serious thing, but adding something to what is after all human speculation, surely is not a big deal? Also, what Jesus Christ is saying to us now, is what he said 2000 years ago, and is recorded in the Bible for anyone to see.

This is just a quick reply, have no time to post any support for this, but I remember researching this at one time since I also had the same question. It would appear that since there is no time frame on what happened from Adam to when Cain left to wander somewhere else, it is possible that the people he might encounter were his distant relatives, who had already procreated sufficiently to establish several communities. Also, the scriptures do not always detail everything. It was Moses who supposedly wrote about this, perhaps he had no need to explain where the other people came from, if he believed they came from Adam and Eve, since as Melinda mentions, he said that Eve became the mother of everyone living. So it makes sense that Adam and Eve had a heaps of children during their long life, besides the main characters of Cain and Abel, and these children had heaps of other children. I even did a hypothetical diagram of possible families and relatives, and it seemed quite feasible that after several generations there were quite a number of people scattered all over the place. Granted, not to the extent that "science" tells us. For me, scientific evidence, especially in the area of evolution, can be dodgy, and I am not sure everything can be believed as facts, even though you say there is hard evidence for it. However, I cannot argue with you on this because I have not investigated this "hard evidence" myself. Not thoroughly anyway.

The Bible says that by means of Abraham's seed all nations will be blessed. This means that those of Abraham's blood line became the special possession that produced the Messiah, the means for potential salvation for ALL mankind, dead or alive. Why does it seem silly? "That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned" (Romans 5:12) If there was the possibility of more than one person* being directly created by Jehovah, then how could the above scripture apply? *Edit: I should really say 2 people. One of each sex.

A few years ago I was in Pittsburgh visiting one of my husband's relatives and since we were right there, at the "nucleus" of where it all "began" we went to see Russell's grave, saw the Pyramid (which actually is not his tombstone as some think) and we also went to the Allegheny congregation. The brothers there regularly do unofficial tours of Russell sites if any visitor asks about it. I mentioned to the brother about pyramidology, he laughed, a little uncomfortably, and said "we don't talk about that". I understand it's a little bit of an embarrassment, but if you know the facts about it, it is nothing bad, and I would say it's quite understandable for men of God at that time who were searching for truth to have looked into all kinds of things along the route. It becomes a problem when opposers twist or embellish facts and make it look like Russell was into the occult and freemasonry etc. So in my opinion it would be better to explain where Russell was coming from, rather than trying to bury or ignore it. But, and this is the sad thing, perhaps the brother in question really didn't know the facts, and this is where the cult thinking comes in. You are a follower despite some unexplained beliefs. But perhap's I am doing the brother an injustice, perhaps he knew all about Russell's "theories", but just couldn't be bothered to go into it....

to disturb us to put us in uncomfortable zone to make us suspicious to loose faith in .... human and perhaps in god to make us to think to open possibility how we based our believes on false ideas ....etc Those are not good things by most people's standards. However, I do agree with the last two. Thinking is always a good idea, and everyone should make sure their beliefs are not based on false ideas.

Well thank you Billy for giving us a list of activist ex-JWs for us to peruse. Know any more? (sarcasm)

Come on James, you don't have to put yourself in that dark place. Think positive thoughts.

I agree. The thing is, many would rather not know. At least that's how it appears to me. On the other hand, I wonder what actual good does it do to know? I mean of what practical benefit? (looking at it from the point of view of those who do not want to know, or would rather not know). The only thing I can think of is it equips you better to defend your faith and as you say prepare you for any possible question that might come up based on these issues. This is perhaps the only reason that I started reading these things, so if my son read something, and had questions, I would already know what he was talking about.

I believe this was compiled by an ex-JW whose name I cannot remember. (I mean the first part that Noble posted, the bit about flip flops on rape etc.). He prided himself on only using WT publications to discredit the org.

Don't go to the rest room, you might miss it!

Exactly. Plus, it's not as if Sofia will never have any ice cream again @James Thomas Rook Jr.. You of all people should agree with that type of upbringing, in a world where the kids think the world owes them. Parents need to do society a favor and read the latest Awake: https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/awake-no2-2019-jul-aug/

Please tell me you're kidding

Used to be sung at the close of every assembly /convention years ago. Made me tear up.

When singing with her sister, my mum would always sing second voice, and she still does that at the KH with some of the songs. I can't do it....

I agree. It makes me also think of the amazing artists from the Renaissance period, all of them heavily influenced by the church. But then there was nothing else at the time was there? They didn't know any better..... I also love Handle's Messiah and Schubert's Ave Maria. And Gruber's "silent night" is beautiful when sang by a professional choir. Of course I would never sing it in front of anyone for fear of stumbling them.

I guess Missouri is mostly country folk?

You played both songs magnificently, JW Insider. I wish I could contribute to this thread with an instrument or even song, but alas I do not play anything, and my voice is nothing special. I wish I had listened to my mum and learned to play the piano, but alas, I was more interested in running through the fields and climbing trees to read a book. HOWEVER, I do think I have some musical talent though, that was just never channeled (lol, lol) and I love singing and music of all sorts (in the classical department Mozart is my favourite, especially his operas, but then I also like many of the groups and bands from the 80' up to the present. I discovered a talented young rock band not long ago; "Greta van Fleet" sorry, I digress, this is supposed to be about kingdom songs). I wish that the friends were more into singing and playing instruments, it seem that it was quite common in years past where brothers and sisters would get together to play and sing Kingdom Songs. Trying to get them to do this now is like pulling teeth. At least in America it seems. Maybe this is why the organization has introduced the "original" songs, which sound more like something younger people would like. I remember as a young teenager getting together with friends who played the guitar and we would sit around the campfire, cook bratwursts and sing "tramp" songs, a kind of folk genre. This original song reminds me of a "tramp" song: https://www.jw.org/en/publications/music-songs/original-songs/just-around-the-corner/ There are a few older ones, in our hall in their late 70's and older who remember the days when they would get together to sing. One brother in particular (he is 94) could have sang professionally but he didn't chose that path. I can tell his voice was amazing at one time, because despite his age he still sounds great. I try to do a sing song gathering every other month in our house, and it's so much fun once everyone relaxes a bit. I got quite frustrated with some of the younger ones (the under 60's) at one time, but discovered the beauty of wine or bourbon. Everyone seems much more cooperative once they've had a few. I also grow mint for Mojito. Whatever it takes! I apologize, I know the intention of this topic was to post music, and not my blabbings...