Anna

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

It would be another 3,000 years before Adam was created, etc., etc.

If we are to trust the dating of the archeological site in question, then it looks like Adam must have been created a lot earlier then 😃

1 minute ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I envy you

I know.

22 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

it is merely a false prophesy, intended to keeps the troops motivated, afraid, and keep the money rolling in.

I do not believe that. But we are both entitled to our opinion 🙂

1 minute ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

sarcastic and insulting

Sounds a bit like you 🙂

24 minutes ago, Bubba Johnson Jr said:

 

#2 I would never add anything to an illustration developed by the "faithful and discreet slave" to help us to understand what Jesus Christ is saying to us NOW.

I understand you may be concerned about adding anything to scripture (or taking away), since that is a very serious thing, but adding something to what is after all human speculation, surely is not a big deal?

Also, what Jesus Christ is saying to us now, is what he said 2000 years ago, and is recorded in the Bible for anyone to see.

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The question is, and should be  ... Where did THEY come from?

This is just a quick reply, have no time to post any support for this, but I remember researching this at one time since I also had the same question. It would appear that since there is no time frame on what happened from Adam to when Cain left to wander somewhere else, it is possible that the people he might encounter were his distant relatives, who had already procreated sufficiently to establish several communities.  Also, the scriptures do not always detail everything. It was Moses who supposedly wrote about this, perhaps he had no need to explain where the other people came from, if he believed they came from Adam and Eve, since as Melinda mentions, he said that Eve became the mother of everyone living. So it makes sense that Adam and Eve had a heaps of children during their long life, besides the main characters of Cain and Abel, and these children had heaps of other children. I even did a hypothetical diagram of possible families and relatives, and it seemed quite feasible that after several generations there were quite a number of people scattered all over the place. Granted, not to the extent that "science" tells us. For me, scientific evidence, especially in the area of evolution, can be dodgy, and I am not sure everything can be believed as facts, even though you say there is hard evidence for it. However, I cannot argue with you on this because I have not investigated this "hard evidence" myself. Not thoroughly anyway. 

8 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

during the time of Abraham, if you were NOT of his blood line, all people of the Earth were pretty much ignored by God, and were NOT a special possession of God, so salvation has not always been for all people

The Bible says that by means of Abraham's seed all nations will be blessed. This means that those of Abraham's blood line became the special possession that produced the Messiah, the means for potential salvation for ALL mankind, dead or alive.

8 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The unsubstantiated story of Cain and Abel, before he was murdered, having sex with their sisters, who were NEVER mentioned,  to progenate the human race always seemed silly and contrived to me

Why does it seem silly?

8 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

and there is no Biblical support whatsoever for that idea.

"That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned" (Romans 5:12)

If there was the possibility of more than one person* being directly created by Jehovah, then how could the above scripture apply?

*Edit: I should really say 2 people. One of each sex.

6 hours ago, JW Insider said:

The way we defend or dismiss the material from our past history can be an indicator as to whether we too have succumbed to cult thinking.

A few years ago I was in Pittsburgh visiting one of my husband's relatives and since we were right there, at the "nucleus" of where it all "began" we went to see Russell's grave, saw the Pyramid (which actually is not his tombstone as some think) and we also went to the Allegheny congregation. The brothers there regularly do unofficial tours of Russell sites if any visitor asks about it. I mentioned to the brother about pyramidology, he laughed, a little uncomfortably, and said "we don't talk about that". I understand it's a little bit of an embarrassment, but if you know the facts about it, it is nothing bad, and I would say it's quite understandable for men of God at that time who were searching for truth to have looked into all kinds of things along the route. It becomes a problem when opposers twist or embellish facts and make it look like Russell was into the occult and freemasonry etc. So in my opinion it would be better to explain where Russell was coming from, rather than trying to bury or ignore it. But, and this is the sad thing, perhaps the brother in question really didn't know the facts, and this is where the cult thinking comes in. You are a follower despite some unexplained beliefs. But perhap's I am doing the brother an injustice, perhaps he knew all about  Russell's "theories", but just couldn't be bothered to go into it....

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

15 hours ago, Anna said:

On the other hand, I wonder what actual good does it do to know?

to disturb us

to put us in uncomfortable zone

to make us suspicious

to loose faith in .... human and perhaps in god

to make us to think

to open possibility how we based our believes on false ideas

....etc 

Those are not good things by most people's standards. However, I do agree with the last two. Thinking is always a good idea, and everyone should make sure their beliefs are not based on false ideas.

2 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Mike & Kim, P Asare, J Redwood, Average Joe, B Bowen and Wifibandit.

Well thank you Billy for giving us a list of activist ex-JWs for us to peruse. Know any more? (sarcasm)

16 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

that are engineered to make a slave of you, and separate you from your money.

Come on James, you don't have to put yourself in that dark place. Think positive thoughts.

18 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

The arguments may take things to an excessive conclusion, based on added marginal notes, but all this is still a REAL part of the history of the organization that should be understood correctly. We do take pride in the history of our organization, and an honest person would never leave out this information, even if our explanation for it is more generous than we might expect from ex-JWs. 

For some, ignorance is bliss, or at least preferable to knowing these things. But a fully honest Witness will want to know what really happened and what others might think of these issues, and prepare for any possible question that might come up based on these issues. (1 Pet 3:15)

I agree. The thing is, many would rather not know. At least that's how it appears to me. On the other hand, I wonder what actual good does it do to know? I mean of what practical benefit? (looking at it from the point of view of those who do not want to know, or would rather not know). The only thing I can think of is it equips you better to defend your faith and as you say prepare you for any possible question that might come up based on these issues. This is perhaps the only reason that I started reading these things, so if my son read something, and had questions, I would already know what he was talking about.

13 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Represents an awful lot of work. Thanks.

I believe this was compiled by an ex-JW whose name I cannot remember. (I mean the first part that Noble posted, the bit about flip flops on rape etc.). He prided himself on only using WT publications to discredit the org.

3 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

Looking forward to hear what is going to be said about animals/pets at the assembly.

Don't go to the rest room, you might miss it!

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It represents training a child that not everything is about her, and that used to be seen as a good thing.

Exactly. Plus, it's not as if Sofia will never have any ice cream again @James Thomas Rook Jr.. You of all people should agree with that type of upbringing, in a world where the kids think the world owes them. Parents need to do society a favor and read the latest Awake: https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/awake-no2-2019-jul-aug/

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Yes, the same company WT owns shares in, where thousands of JWs preach on the organization's behalf, with many joining M. Stephen Lett's personal page. 

Please tell me you're kidding

4 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

 "We thank You Jehovah"

Used to be sung at the close of every assembly /convention years ago. Made me tear up.

When singing with her sister, my mum would always sing second voice, and she still does that at the KH with some of the songs. I can't do it....

4 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

My take is that these gifts are from God, and that they were allowed to come about to uplift mankind when things were especially dark in the world; e.g. lack of human rights, slavery, inquisitions, concentration camps, etc. It is still dark after the Renaissance, there was even a period called the "Dark Ages".  Some pieces of classical music are so good that you feel you were transported "out of this world" for a few minutes.

I agree. It makes me also think of the amazing artists from the Renaissance period, all of them heavily influenced by the church. But then there was nothing else at the time was there? They didn't know any better.....

I also love Handle's Messiah and Schubert's Ave Maria. And Gruber's "silent night" is beautiful when sang by a professional choir. Of course I would never sing it in front of anyone for fear of stumbling them.

6 hours ago, JW Insider said:

...very suspiciously for all his classical records, and a few other styles, too. Mozart, Bach, Beethoven etc., were generally considered to represent false religious church music by other Witnesses.

I guess Missouri is mostly country folk?

You played both songs magnificently, JW Insider. I wish I could contribute to this thread with an instrument or even song, but alas I do not play anything, and my voice is nothing special. I wish I had listened to my mum and learned to play the piano, but alas, I was more interested in running through the fields and climbing trees to read a book. HOWEVER, I do think I have some musical talent though, that was just never channeled (lol, lol) and I love singing and music of all sorts (in the classical department Mozart is my favourite, especially his operas, but then I also like many of the groups and bands from the 80' up to the present. I discovered a talented young rock band not long ago; "Greta van Fleet" sorry, I digress,  this is supposed to be about kingdom songs).

I wish that the friends were more into singing and playing instruments, it seem that it was quite common in years past where brothers and sisters would get together to play and sing Kingdom Songs. Trying to get them to do this now is like pulling teeth. At least in America it seems. Maybe this is why the organization has introduced the "original" songs, which sound more like something younger people would like.

I remember as a young teenager getting together with friends who played the guitar and we would sit around the campfire, cook bratwursts and sing "tramp" songs, a kind of folk genre. This original song reminds me of a "tramp" song: https://www.jw.org/en/publications/music-songs/original-songs/just-around-the-corner/

There are a few older ones, in our hall in their late 70's and older who remember the days when they would get together to sing. One brother in particular (he is 94) could have sang professionally but he didn't chose that path. I can tell his voice was amazing at one time, because despite his age he still sounds great. I try to do a sing song gathering every other month in our house, and it's so much fun once everyone relaxes a bit. I got quite frustrated with some of the younger ones (the under 60's)  at one time, but discovered the beauty of wine or bourbon. Everyone seems much more cooperative once they've had a few. I also grow mint for Mojito. Whatever it takes!

I apologize, I know the intention of this topic was to post music, and not my blabbings...

8 minutes ago, Melinda Mills said:

Yes, posted a video and it was nice. He was playing a classical piece. on the harmonica.

 

Awww I missed that! I would have liked to hear it. I wonder if he will send it in a PM @JW Insider ? Pretty please?

26 minutes ago, Melinda Mills said:

I decided to continue my music as it is said to help the brain. If you don't use it you lose it.   Music helps us to use a part of the brain that is not frequently used.  It also helps to build a high level of discipline, listening ability, appreciation, tolerance and other good qualities. 

I agree. My mum plays the piano, well, I should say played. She and her husband moved to a small more manageable flat (they had a big house before) but she couldn't take her piano with her as it would never fit. I am trying to encourage her to at least get a keyboard so she keeps her hand/brain coordination fresh, and all the other things you mention. I will bring it up again!

1 minute ago, Melinda Mills said:

You are world class!

What's that about? Was it @JW Insidershowing off or something? 😃. I know he deleted a post, but I didn't see it before he did so....

14 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Are all the talks at assemblies just outlines given to brothers to make up the talks ? 

I know that Public talks for Sunday meetings are just outlines from the GB / Org and the elders make up a talk from the outline. That will mean that every time that same outline is used, the actual talk will be different, at different KH.

If assembly talks are the same type of thing then every assembly will have same outline but the elders/brothers will actually have made up a different talk.  What I'm saying is that at each assembly within that year the talk may be completely different depending how the brother uses the outline. It will not be word for word the same at every assembly. 

Hence what may be said at one assembly may not be said at another assembly. Well that is my line of reasoning, so tell me if I'm wrong.  

 

As far as I know, there are strict outlines that are closely adhered to, and from my experience of conventions, the same talks by different brothers sound pretty much alike. Not word for word of course, otherwise it wouldn't be an outline but a script. But the likely hood of them sounding completely different is unlikely. That is not to say some elder couldn't slip in his own ideas, something he maybe feels passionately about.  Especially at a KH.  This happens very rarely now though, and especially not at conventions. I remember one elder years ago, had something against Teenage Ninja Turtles, and counseled parents in his talk about how it was not appropriate for a Christian to allow their children to play with those toys. You know that was NOT in the outline. Nevertheless, there were parents that made their kids throw away all their treasured Ninja Turtles.... talk about imposing your own conscience on others! This is one reason why the outlines now have become very specific, and have to be strictly followed, so that this kind of thing does not happen.