There are 4 red boxes in the cart, assuming those are Macallan then one of those bottles costs anywhere from $1,700 to $1,900 USD

4 hours ago, Witness said:

"I see you're a fan of scotch, do you know anything about Irish whiskey?", says the man videotaping Mr. Morris.  Why would he say that if he hadn't seen what was in his cart, since Mr. Morris wasn't holding a bottle in his hand? 

Because the man was assuming that was Morris's cart,  and Morris responding is no proof it was his cart, after all he was in the whiskey isle and looking at the whiskey. His cart could have been anywhere.

4 hours ago, Witness said:

He removed the bottles from their boxes before going to the register, a security protocol at this store.  Also, he had them throw away the individual boxes, which to me shows he wasn't purchasing them as gifts

Like I said, he only had one box that he was putting into the car. One box that holds a max 6 bottles. Where did all the other whiskey bottles go that were in the said cart? Even at the checkout, where Morris is seen getting his card/money out to pay, there are only up to 6 bottles on the counter, and his cart is empty.

Coming back to this video. I had time to watch it again and noticed that the cart that we see in the store has a lot more in it than what Br. Morris is seen putting into his car. The box he puts in his car could hold a max 6 bottles. The cart in the store has at least 13 bottles from what I could see. Has it occurred to anyone that perhaps that wasn't even his cart?

5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I think the Kid's point was that vigilante justice does not get back at the accused, but to many the accused is the GB and whole JW Org, so if KH's are being destroyed then it is getting back at the accused in a big way. 

It disrupts meetings, causes worry to congregants, and costs the Org money. I would say that is getting back at the accused.

Yes, very true. But when he/they (the "vigilantes")  get caught they will be punished. The authorities aren't going to be interested in the reasons why they did this. So eventually they will lose out. In any case, saying this is because of child abuse is just speculation. We really don't know....

4 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Perhaps that is why the Society discourages education and reading anything other than it's own publications.

Come on James, you know that's not a fair statement. All education is not discouraged, but putting Kingdom interests first is the point. Same with books. Nothing wrong with reading books other than JW publications, as long as they are not the only thing you read. 

23 minutes ago, Witness said:

Here's another one,  @TrueTomHarley

 

 

 

 

 

"What an astonishing bit of footage"  Really? The man going out to the liquor store to buy some whiskey? 

"This is not how Tony Morris would like to be seen by Jehovah's Witnesses" Why on earth not? It's more like Lloyd Evans doesn't want to see Anthony Morris like this, because Lloyd Evans has some weird ideas about Br. Morris, and now his weird ideas have been shattered. Now he knows Anthony Morris is just like anyone else. Surprise!

Grow up Lloyd!

P.S.

There are Sunday afternoon meetings too.

2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

My contribution to "Global Warming" is limited to accidentally leaving my bathroom window open.

 

REMEMBER !   Every home, office, factory and other building that is heated ... every single one ..... without exception ... eventually loses that heat from the inside, to the outside.  Think of 5 BILLION hot spots on the Earth, sucking up natural gas, oil, electricity, propane, coal and uranium, and turning it into HEAT!

Even in the summer, air conditioners pump HEAT to the outside air.

 

Now that you are excited, and hyper-ventilating in an ecological save the planet or we are all doomed panic ....  what does that mean as a practical, real life matter?

 

Absolutely NOTHING!

 

 

What about all those nasty cow farts?

18 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I’m glad the brother wrote it.

It's not a brother, lol. In fact it's a woman who is not, and never has been a JW 

https://www.gabrieleyonan.com/bio

19 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

There is no possible way that Lloyd would ever read it. At absolute most he would skim it & it would have no effect upon his overall program.

That's probably true. What intrigues me though is where he got those ideas from in the first place, if not from disgruntled Christendom.

On 3/30/2019 at 9:56 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

Scoundrels always disassociate remarks from the settings in which they were written so as to create a false impression.

Yes. And I don't know if you noticed, in that book extract, Gabriele Yonan states: " When the entire text of the Declaration of 25 June 1933 and the letter to Hitler are seen today in the context of the history of Jehovah's Witnesses during the period of National Socialism in Germany and the history of their religious resistance and their stand during the Holocaust, then the text does not present itself as an "antisemitic statement" or an attempt at "currying the favor" of Hitler. These accusations, stemming from present-day church circles, are deliberate manipulations and falsifications of history, seemingly motivated by guilt over the churches' own involvement or lack or involvement in the persecutions.

So active haters like Lloyd Evans are merely piggy backing on the Churches reasons for criticizing Rutherford's letter. They do not have their own original criticism. This is hilarious since LE is an atheist, but as you see, when it comes to being hateful about JW org, he has no qualms about being one with Christendom. But that is to be expected.

47 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

2 hours ago, Anna said:

I will have to dig up an apologist explanation for Rutherford's seeming sympathizing sentiments. It was written by a non JW, you may have seen it, 

No.

Here you go: http://www.jwhistory.net/english/yonan-journal1999.htm

It's a little off topic here...maybe when you have copied it I should make a new topic?

8 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

  you stood up for Rutherford over his vile antisemitism,

Tom, people like Loyd Evans will take anything, and everything JW's have ever done, said, and written for the last 100+ years and insinuate either bad motives, sheer ignorance, or evilness.

The stunning thing is that nothing, absolutely nothing we have ever done, said, and written has ever been good in their eyes. I think Hitler would fair better. The thing is, LE is an obsessed activist, that's all he does with his life. (I am not sure he even works...) but you already know that. The sad thing there is absolutely no reasoning with him, I think you already know that too. As regards the Rutherford letter, I will have to dig up an apologist explanation for Rutherford's seeming sympathizing sentiments. It was written by a non JW, you may have seen it, I will dig it up and post a link to it here. 

9 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

But technically .... I did race against Paul Newman.

 

In my teens I skied downhill with Princess Caroline and her sister Stephanie of Monaco. I don't think it was a race though. They didn't even see me of course and they were much better skiers than me anyway. Later that week I got an autograph from Roger Moore. My cousin who is a few years younger than me went up to him and said "hello 007". I know that doesn't impress you at all though. Sorry, I wish it was Sean Connery.

On 3/22/2019 at 10:31 PM, The Librarian said:

@TrueTomHarley I still getting used to this theme.

I think I will actually ask the @admin to go back to the default. 

It was giving me a "headache" and put me off coming here. Glad it's back to normal.

10 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

This is pretentious and belong to arrogant statement - in my opinion :))).

But it's true . Also, there would be no war.

22 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

NOTHING is said that JW people actively contributing in effort to less pollution  of Earth. Just prayer for Kingdom.

Actions speak louder than words. Personally I know that many JW's recycle, they prefer to purchase energy saving appliances, ride bikes instead of drive a car, conscientiously try to conserve water and be careful about littering and dumping contaminated things where they don't belong. Why would they do that if they didn't care? On top of that, as the article mentions, most of our new buildings are "green" .

https://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/united-states/gbi-awards-four-green-globes-sustainable-design/

http://www.constructionmanagermagazine.com/onsite/witness-model-construction-project/

It is our earth, given to us by Jehovah. Knowing that God will sort things out, is no excuse to treat the planet he gave us with disrespect. On the contrary. And as far as I know, that is every JW's attitude, including mine.

As for some kind of activism, well no, JWs don't take part in that because they know it is futile. And people who believe activism will help, then they are being naive, because the matter of money always comes first, and then concerns about the environment. Money will always win.

20 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Just another example of people bowing and scraping and acqiescing to my every whim. It gets so old.

You should be able to change your own post (including the heading) just by going to "edit" on the bottom....just like with other posts..

On 3/18/2019 at 2:18 AM, BillyTheKid46 said:

In one account, a group of Chilean youths stormed the KH, took down the JW.org flag and replaced it with a Chilean flag.

Who told you this? But one thing doesn't seem believable, and that is actually replacing a jw.org flag. I cannot imagine there was a jw.org flag in the window. In fact why would the Chilean brothers have a flag, its usually just a plaque outside the KH. 

On 3/18/2019 at 3:03 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

So, "my truth" about it till the 2015, the year of my leaving JW,  was true also.

Actually, the elder I mentioned previously has had a beard for many, many years, while an elder, well before 2015.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Are you saying that 'outsiders' cannot believe in the Anointed

They do believe in the anointed. They believe every single person is anointed because they all believe they will go to heaven...

1 hour ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

That is why, when some rich friends headed to Chile, I made it a point for them to get the “answers” on those 3 KH in question.

So, what were the answers?

4 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

In some ways, I am impressed that it's a step in the right direction. Allowing for some differences on conscience matters is still better than saying everything must be done a specific way because that's the only way a Bible-trained conscience should allow for. 

The brother is probably 70, so I didn't press him, but he was the one who used the terms "strongly encouraged" and "strongly discouraged." It's true that it implies that no one was told they must do it this way or that way, but it also implies that "loaded" or "leading" language would be used. We all know that this produces the implied idea: "I'm not telling you what to do, but you you know what you must do . . . 'wink, wink,' . . . 'nod, nod.' "

Right. So they are effectively being told what to do, (in order to show the government it's a matter of conscience for the congregation) therefor where does the matter of conscience come into this? It's another one of those paradoxes! Actually it's more like a contradiction.

36 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

"Because if some congregations do and some don't, the government will see that this is a matter of conscience, and will realize that they [local JWs] aren't being ordered to handle the matter one way or another [based on a directive] from the [Watch Tower] Society."

I didn't have the heart to point out that this is a strange way to prove that something is really a matter of conscience.

If this fact, then the WT really needs to revisit the definition of conscience!

42 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

beard you mentioned is mostly forbidden in every cong., or if you (not you but some bro :))) want to have it such person is almost less then sister,because sister can have presentation on stage, beard man not

Actually that is not true. One of the brothers in my mum's congregation has a full beard and is an elder and WT conductor. Then there is another brother, a ministerial servant with a goatiee. He does the microphones. I would post a picture of them but can't because of privacy reasons. Also I have a number of friends in England who have short beards. Now it's coming to the USA as well. There are brothers in some congregations who have beards. So far no privileges, but they go out in field service. 10 years ago you would have not seen that here (USA).  I guess it's because of this Sept 2016 WT : ¹⁷ What about the propriety of brothers wearing a beard? The Mosaic Law required men to wear a beard. However, Christians are not under the Mosaic Law, nor are they obliged to observe it. (Lev. 19:27; 21:5; Gal. 3:24, 25) In some cultures, a neatly trimmed beard may be acceptable and respectable, and it may not detract at all from the Kingdom message. In fact, some appointed brothers have beards. Even so, some brothers might decide not to wear a beard. (1 Cor. 8:9, 13; 10:32) In other cultures or localities, beards are not the custom and are not considered acceptable for Christian ministers. In fact, having one may hinder a brother from bringing glory to God by his dress and grooming and his being irreprehensible.—Rom. 15:1-3; 1 Tim. 3:2, 7.    After that WT our CO at the time said that he is expecting some beards soon. And he was right.

53 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Flag issue was raised to highly doctrinal matter because of significance for  Neutrality Issue. And it is General Issue and not just Local Elders Dilemma. In this i have little different view than You.

Saluting the Flag was raised to a highly doctrinal matter. The flag itself is not the problem. Its just an emblem, or identifier of a country. Just like money is not the problem, it's the love of money.

57 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Bible say "before sun went down" aka sunset :))) 

True. But with some things it is not possible. Sometimes patience is the way to go.

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

too many of them are blind and deaf and mute, only humans but on powerful position. Haha, complains comes to their ears because of whistlers.

Not the elders I know! But yes, there can be some that are not very good. But I have only met about 3 in my life time. Things always get sorted out in the end though. Yes, the whistlers are good sometimes.

20 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I ask this, because some issues in congregation are handled exactly by Votes of all baptized congregants. In the same time there is also questions that is matter of interest for all members but elders body not making matter public, to make Resolution, but they push own decision. This i see as discrepancy and intended changing of rules of those who have power when they see  it is in their "interest" or if they perhaps not have "faith" in members.    

it's a difficult situation and you make some valid points. What I do know is that congregations are not "policed" from HQ but that each congregation has some relative autonomy, depending on local practices and customs of the country they are in. A typical example is that of beards. It is the elders as a body, who decide whether brothers with beards will be given privileges or not, not HQ. Also, one of the reasons the CO visits every 6 months is to make sure that the congregation is happy, and that the elders are not "lording it over the flock". There are congregations that are thriving and doing very well, and then others that are not. There are reasons behind that. And those reasons will be made known to the CO. (By either some elder, who does not agree with some decision, or publishers). Let's say for example that the elders decided it's ok to fly a flag, but most in the congregation are upset about it. So some publishers move away, or stop going, or stop answering, or stop field service etc....The CO will detect the spirit of the congregation and will see something is wrong.   The CO knows one important thing that all elders must do, and that is consider the congregation's spiritual interests first. As shepherds, they must treat the flock with care. So when the CO comes back in 6 months, and the congregation is the same or worse, then the CO knows things did not get resolved and some further action has to be taken.

20 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

In last sentence you mentioned how they will take in account conscience of others. This is possible to found or to get to know by; Voting system or by Referendum or by some sort of Survey. 

That is one way of doing it. But the elders should know their flock well, and they should know how individuals feel. And I can tell you, if someone complains (about an important matter) then the elders WILL know about it. (Unless they are blind and deaf).

20 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Letter from HQ say nothing about this, but put on elders body exclusivity to decide. Well again, what sort of system is Congregation? Religious/democracy shape where people sometimes have privilege to vote and sometimes they don't? Management established by WT HQ in Elders body structure? Theocratic structure where all persons making unite decision UNDER lead of holy spirit?  Or something else? 

I already partially answered it above. It depends on what it is. But regardless of how it's done, it should always be done in the spiritual interest of the congregation. And if it is not, then the congregation will show signs of suffering and this will be seen by the CO and will be remedied. But I do agree with you, some things should be put before the whole congregation.

9 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I will definitely remember to ask him about the Chilean flags.

That will be great! Can't wait to hear what he says.

9 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I can't imagine that he doesn't know. But if not, I volunteer to call one or more of the KH's in Chile. BTW, at most it's a very low charge, sometimes just a few cents to call through Google Phone, or other IP phone services.

That would be great too! Thanks! I was wondering about the cost, I didn't think of Google phone etc. The hall I posted the telephone number to is actually the same hall we have been discussing on here, and the one with the flag pole you posted a street view of. There are two English congs. that meet there. The Vina del Mar, and Santiago. But you probably already know that.

P.S. Ignore the previous. I did another check, and it actually looks like the KH with the flag on Manuel Antonio Matta 2925, Viña del Mar, Valparaíso, is no longer there. At least it's not on jw.org "find a meeting". At first it looked like it was, but then I checked again, this time looking at the map on the right, and it does not indicate a hall there.... So the English congs. are actually on 2 Oriente 1076 VIÑA DEL MAR . It looks pretty posh compared to the one on Manuel Antonio Matta. I didn't notice a flag pole.