Anna

If this fact, then the WT really needs to revisit the definition of conscience!

Actually that is not true. One of the brothers in my mum's congregation has a full beard and is an elder and WT conductor. Then there is another brother, a ministerial servant with a goatiee. He does the microphones. I would post a picture of them but can't because of privacy reasons. Also I have a number of friends in England who have short beards. Now it's coming to the USA as well. There are brothers in some congregations who have beards. So far no privileges, but they go out in field service. 10 years ago you would have not seen that here (USA). I guess it's because of this Sept 2016 WT : 17 What about the propriety of brothers wearing a beard? The Mosaic Law required men to wear a beard. However, Christians are not under the Mosaic Law, nor are they obliged to observe it. (Lev. 19:27; 21:5; Gal. 3:24, 25) In some cultures, a neatly trimmed beard may be acceptable and respectable, and it may not detract at all from the Kingdom message. In fact, some appointed brothers have beards. Even so, some brothers might decide not to wear a beard. (1 Cor. 8:9, 13; 10:32) In other cultures or localities, beards are not the custom and are not considered acceptable for Christian ministers. In fact, having one may hinder a brother from bringing glory to God by his dress and grooming and his being irreprehensible.—Rom. 15:1-3; 1 Tim. 3:2, 7. After that WT our CO at the time said that he is expecting some beards soon. And he was right. Saluting the Flag was raised to a highly doctrinal matter. The flag itself is not the problem. Its just an emblem, or identifier of a country. Just like money is not the problem, it's the love of money. True. But with some things it is not possible. Sometimes patience is the way to go. Not the elders I know! But yes, there can be some that are not very good. But I have only met about 3 in my life time. Things always get sorted out in the end though. Yes, the whistlers are good sometimes.

it's a difficult situation and you make some valid points. What I do know is that congregations are not "policed" from HQ but that each congregation has some relative autonomy, depending on local practices and customs of the country they are in. A typical example is that of beards. It is the elders as a body, who decide whether brothers with beards will be given privileges or not, not HQ. Also, one of the reasons the CO visits every 6 months is to make sure that the congregation is happy, and that the elders are not "lording it over the flock". There are congregations that are thriving and doing very well, and then others that are not. There are reasons behind that. And those reasons will be made known to the CO. (By either some elder, who does not agree with some decision, or publishers). Let's say for example that the elders decided it's ok to fly a flag, but most in the congregation are upset about it. So some publishers move away, or stop going, or stop answering, or stop field service etc....The CO will detect the spirit of the congregation and will see something is wrong. The CO knows one important thing that all elders must do, and that is consider the congregation's spiritual interests first. As shepherds, they must treat the flock with care. So when the CO comes back in 6 months, and the congregation is the same or worse, then the CO knows things did not get resolved and some further action has to be taken. That is one way of doing it. But the elders should know their flock well, and they should know how individuals feel. And I can tell you, if someone complains (about an important matter) then the elders WILL know about it. (Unless they are blind and deaf). I already partially answered it above. It depends on what it is. But regardless of how it's done, it should always be done in the spiritual interest of the congregation. And if it is not, then the congregation will show signs of suffering and this will be seen by the CO and will be remedied. But I do agree with you, some things should be put before the whole congregation.

That will be great! Can't wait to hear what he says. That would be great too! Thanks! I was wondering about the cost, I didn't think of Google phone etc. The hall I posted the telephone number to is actually the same hall we have been discussing on here, and the one with the flag pole you posted a street view of. There are two English congs. that meet there. The Vina del Mar, and Santiago. But you probably already know that. P.S. Ignore the previous. I did another check, and it actually looks like the KH with the flag on Manuel Antonio Matta 2925, Viña del Mar, Valparaíso, is no longer there. At least it's not on jw.org "find a meeting". At first it looked like it was, but then I checked again, this time looking at the map on the right, and it does not indicate a hall there.... So the English congs. are actually on 2 Oriente 1076 VIÑA DEL MAR . It looks pretty posh compared to the one on Manuel Antonio Matta. I didn't notice a flag pole.

That's ok, I bet my husband that he's not going to stick to his diet. I have a sneaky suspicion it won't be a bunch of hoopla though. The flag I mean...

They are the ones who put it up. As for the publishers, they just go inside the building. Although I wouldn't agree with it, it wouldn't bother my conscience. In any case, when deciding somethIng like this, the elders will take into account the conscience of others, usually.

I've seen this letter before. In my opinion it looks genuine.

That line is parallel too. Although a bit difficult to see because of the fence post Yes, it must be, and that's what threw me initially. I know what you mean. But it's very way out....In any case, we know there is definitely evidence of a flag pole there as per Google. I think there is a phone number for the hall on jw.org. as well. Anybody know Spanish? Oh...they speak English, it's the English congregation: Meeting times: Thursday 7:30, Sunday 11am, Chile time (GTM-3) Tel from the USA: 001 56 32-2978789 Any volunteers? @JW Insider ?

And here's another one with the other shadows. That flag pole definitely seems off...

Actually it isn't.... not exactly....so what does that mean?

I think the invisible portion of the flag is still hanging down, and if it was flapping in the wind as suggested in the shadow, then the pole should be on the right side of it, not on the left of it..... You are right when you say we need more angles of the shot. Optically the flag looks like it's facing left away from the pole, but now I can see (judging by the shadow ) that it's actually wrapped around the pole with the white portion extending away to the right of the pole! And as JTR pointed out, if the sun is in that low position as he says, then yes, that will create long shadows. And as my diagram above shows, those two corners of the flag, are exactly parallel to the same corners of the shadow. And without including a third line from the top of the flag pole to the top of the shadow I can already see it would be parallel to the other lines.

I haven't been reading his comments, lol The sun doesn't seem THAT low on the horizon to me....judging by the shadow cast by the overhanging roof... however, if it is as low as you say then you may be right:

I think the invisible portion of the flag is still hanging down, and if it was flapping in the wind as suggested in the shadow, then the pole should be on the right side of it, not on the left of it.....

The shadow might be in the right place, but it's the wrong shape, in my opinion. The flag itself is laying still, but the shadow shows a flag that is in motion. But yes, there is definitely a flag pole in the front garden of the hall. I took a look on google earth.

Nobody said God needs money, where did you get that idea? True, he doesn't, but he has given that privilege to Christ's followers: "For everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out? Just as it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who declare good news of good things. (Romans 10:13-15) He has given the privilege of preaching to the other sheep too. There are more of the other sheep than of the anointed now. Were the other sheep supposed to let the anointed do all the work and sit back and do nothing?

Also, the shadow of the supposed flag does not belong to that flag. Someone spent a lot of time trying to superimpose the flag into that picture, but still failed.

It's magic!

I don't even know how I should answer this because it is so obvious. I know you don't think gathering together with people of the same faith is important. But Jehovah's Witnesses do. For that you need a building. Again, I don't know how to explain such an obvious thing. You can't do much in this world without money. Valuable things can mean anything, including money, obviously. The entire interest of God is spiritual and his congregation has to be kept spiritually clean. Because it's the hub of spiritual dissemination, and it's a house. Everyone knows God doesn't live there.

@JOHN BUTLER Have you heard anything from when you tried to contact the Police about the abuse in your old hall?

Or.....they would make damn sure they never got caught. But yes, I agree, report all child abuse to the relevant authorities, clergy privilege or no clergy privilege.

Perhaps that's the problem all along. Your interpretation. I will rephrase it: Spiritual Israel became one flock with the other sheep or, conversely, the other sheep became one flock with spiritual Israel. John 10:16 Again, wrong interpretation of what I said. God's interests on earth are of a spiritual nature. Proclaiming of his Kingdom and making disciples. That's what the organization is organized to do.

As I said: Has it not occurred to anyone that maybe this KH, with a porta potty outside, might be rented, and the building is owned by a non JW who put the flag up? I mean if someone would take pics of the stage at our assembly here in town, they would see the American flag right above it. Well we didn't put it there... We used to rent space above a pub, there were drunks outside every meeting night. I'm sure Jack Ryan and Witness would take pics and say those were brothers who had had one too many.....

Has it not occurred to anyone that maybe this KH, with a porta potty outside, might be rented, and the building is owned by a non JW who put the flag up? I mean if someone would take pics of the stage at our assembly here in town, they would see the American flag right above it. Well we didn't put it there...

If I recall correcty, the idea was that there is a day of independence or something like that where the flags are put up for a day or two. But I'm sure the KH would rather pay the fine than put up a flag. What's that got to do with you being gone?

I didn't say it did, I said the two groups became one flock. Well fist they are dedicated to God. Second, they support God's interests here on earth. Like I said, you are confusing things....