Anna

5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I’ll give 3:1 odds that JWI finds it’s all a bunch of hoopla. Nothing less than $100 bets will be considered.

That's ok, I bet my husband that he's not going to stick to his diet.

I have a sneaky suspicion it won't be a bunch of hoopla though. The flag I mean...

12 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

But Collective Conscience of Elders is Imperative?

They are the ones who put it up. As for the publishers, they just go inside the building. Although I wouldn't agree with it, it wouldn't bother my conscience. In any case, when deciding somethIng like this, the elders will take into account the conscience of others, usually. 

I've seen this letter before. In my opinion it looks genuine. 

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Redraw the parallel red lines from the top of the blue CLOTH, to the top of the shadow OF the CLOTH

That line is parallel too. Although a bit difficult to see because of the fence post

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I suspect the FOLD in the flag, is pointed DIRECTLY toward the camera.

Yes, it must be, and that's what threw me initially.

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

In similar manner, the metal rod on the top of the flag pole is THIN enough and has such specular reflectivity that light has seeped behind it, and filled in the shadow a great deal ... ON THE NUBBIN.

I know what you mean. But it's very way out....In any case, we know there is definitely evidence of a flag pole there as per Google. I think there is a phone number for the hall on jw.org. as well. Anybody know Spanish? Oh...they speak English, it's the English congregation:

Meeting times: Thursday 7:30, Sunday 11am, Chile time (GTM-3)

Tel from the USA: 001 56 32-2978789

Any volunteers? @JW Insider ?

And here's another one with the other shadows. That flag pole definitely seems off...

12 minutes ago, Anna said:

I can already see it would be parallel to the other lines.

Actually it isn't.... not exactly....so what does that mean?

1 hour ago, Anna said:

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

shape for the shadow of the invisible portion of the flag.

I think the invisible portion of the flag is still hanging down, and if it was flapping in the wind as suggested in the shadow, then the pole should be on the right side of it, not on the left of it.....

You are right when you say we need more angles of the shot. Optically the flag looks like it's facing left away from the pole, but now I can see (judging by the shadow ) that it's actually wrapped around the pole with the white portion extending away to the right of the pole! And as JTR pointed out, if the sun is in that low position as he says, then yes, that will create long shadows. And as my diagram above shows, those two corners of the flag,  are exactly parallel to the same corners of the shadow. And without including a third line from the top of the flag pole to the top of the shadow I can already see it would be parallel to the other lines.

10 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

. but agenda driven thinking is ALWAYS delusional.

The problem is....

 ... IT'S HIGHLY CONTAGIOUS !

I haven't been reading his comments, lol

The sun doesn't seem THAT low on the horizon to me....judging by the shadow cast by the overhanging roof...

however, if it is as low as you say then you may be right:

30 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

shape for the shadow of the invisible portion of the flag.

I think the invisible portion of the flag is still hanging down, and if it was flapping in the wind as suggested in the shadow, then the pole should be on the right side of it, not on the left of it.....

25 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

but knowing where the flagpole is from another picture now puts the shadow in exactly the right place (in my opinion)

The shadow might be in the right place, but it's the wrong shape, in my opinion. The flag itself is laying still, but the shadow shows a flag  that is in motion. But yes, there is definitely a flag pole in the front garden of the hall. I took a look on google earth.

24 minutes ago, Witness said:

 

Then why teach GOD needs your money?

 

Nobody said God needs money, where did you get that idea?

24 minutes ago, Witness said:

we also know God doesn't need..... an organization to get His work completed;

True, he doesn't, but he has given that privilege to Christ's followers: "For everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out? Just as it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who declare good news of good things. (Romans 10:13-15)

24 minutes ago, Witness said:

He works directly with His Temple priests who finally acknowledge what it means to worship in spirit and truth. 1 Cor 3:16,17  He works directly with those believers in Christ who want to do the same

He has given the privilege of preaching to the other sheep too. There are more of the other sheep than of the anointed now. Were the other sheep supposed to let the anointed do all the work and sit back and do nothing?

6 hours ago, JW Insider said:

We also have a shadow that indicates the flag is not as close to that corner as it first appears.

Also, the shadow of the supposed flag does not belong to that flag. Someone spent a lot of time trying to superimpose the flag into that picture, but still failed.

10 hours ago, Outta Here said:

You must be kidding?

That foto of a floating flagpole falls on the first fence!

It's magic!

14 hours ago, Witness said:

If God's interests on earth are only of a spiritual nature, then why would He need buildings dedicated to Him? 

I don't even know how I should answer this because it is so obvious. I know you don't think gathering together with people of the same faith is important. But Jehovah's Witnesses do. For that you need a building. 

14 hours ago, Witness said:

Why is Prov 3:9 interpreted by the GB as your donations?

Again, I don't know how to explain such an obvious thing. You can't do much in this world without money. Valuable things can mean anything, including money, obviously.

14 hours ago, Witness said:

Why would one be disfellowshipped from the organization if the entire interest of God was spiritual?

The entire interest of God is spiritual and his congregation has to be kept spiritually clean.

14 hours ago, Witness said:

Why is Warwick called the "House of God"?  Acts 7:48

Because it's the hub of spiritual dissemination, and it's a house. Everyone knows God doesn't live there.

@JOHN BUTLER Have you heard anything from when you tried to contact the Police about the abuse in your old hall?

On 12/12/2018 at 11:43 AM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

the threat of certain punishment would deter almost all of these potential cases, except for the retarded or insane.

Or.....they would make damn sure they never got caught. But yes, I agree, report all child abuse to the relevant authorities, clergy privilege or no clergy privilege.

10 minutes ago, Witness said:

"This became the Christian congregation made up of not only anointed Jews (Israelites) but also anointed Gentiles. Hence, this new nation came to be known as "spiritual Israel", who with those not anointed (the other sheep) became one flock. 1 Pet. 2:9"

But after reading again, I come up with the same interpretation.  

Perhaps that's the problem all along. Your interpretation. I will rephrase it: Spiritual Israel became one flock with the other sheep or, conversely,  the other sheep became one flock with spiritual Israel. John 10:16

10 minutes ago, Witness said:

“Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth,

Again, wrong interpretation of what I said. God's interests on earth are of a spiritual nature. Proclaiming of his Kingdom and making disciples. That's what the organization is organized to do.

2 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The preponderance of evidence, as I saw it then, and as I see it now, as shown leads me to believe that it happened EXACTLY as Jack Ryan just posted.

As I said: Has it not occurred to anyone that maybe this KH, with a porta potty outside, might be rented, and the building is owned by a non JW who put the flag up? I mean if someone would take pics of the stage at our assembly here in town, they would see the American flag right above it. Well we didn't put it there...

We used to rent space above a pub, there were drunks outside every meeting night. I'm sure Jack Ryan and Witness would take pics and say those were brothers who had had one too many.....

5 minutes ago, Jack Ryan said:

 

Has it not occurred to anyone that maybe this KH, with a porta potty outside, might be rented, and the building is owned by a non JW who put the flag up? I mean if someone would take pics of the stage at our assembly here in town, they would see the American flag right above it. Well we didn't put it there...

6 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

8 minutes ago, Anna said:

Nice to see you commenting again. Thought something had happened to you. I know, you can't even take a vacation right?

If I recall correcty, the idea was that there is a day of independence or something like that where the flags are put up for a day or two. But I'm sure the KH would rather pay the fine than put up a flag.

What's that got to do with you being gone?

2 minutes ago, Witness said:

Spiritual “Israel” does not include both anointed and those not anointed

I didn't say it did, I said the two groups became one flock.

4 minutes ago, Witness said:

dedicated to an organization, which they serve.

Well fist they are dedicated to God. Second, they support God's interests here on earth. Like I said, you are confusing things....

12 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

I told him that I had checked about 20 Kingdom Halls in Chile using Google Street View.

Just go to JW.ORG and get the addresses of all the different locations

I did that too, just earlier, but got tired after I'd looked at about 8, lol. Needless to say, I saw no flags or flag poles. Some of the "Kingdom Halls" are in private homes I noticed on our website. I'd like to find the KH in question, but gave up too soon....

Nice to see you commenting again. Thought something had happened to you. I know, you can't even take a vacation right?

P.S. I have a friend from Santiago, I will ask her if she knows anything.

4 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The picture I saw had the Chilean Flag behind the metal bars in the windows, behind the glass, inside the building, facing out, and there was a high steel rod fence with a gate around the property, with the flagpole on the property, on the grounds.

It may have been put there by Eskimos for all I know.

... but that is not probable.

 

 

I've seen the same one. It's funny, but certain anti JW websites will caption that as  "Kingdom halls in Chile" and then post the same Kingdom hall from various angles.

26 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I don't know anything other than what was in the news several years ago ... that on a particular national holiday, Chile requires  Churches to display the National Flag for that day on their building or flag poles ... and the Elders put one inside the building, showing through the windows, and put one on a flag pole (what's a Kingdom Hall doing with a flag pole ...anyway..?), to avoid paying a fine, somewhere around $240.

I have several photos on my hard drive somewhere, from several angles.

That's all I know.

You may have photos, but you don't know who put the flag there...do you? Makes me think the same group that took the pictures perhaps....?

20 hours ago, Witness said:

Are you devoted to the organization?

Are you motivated and dedicated to serve its needs?

Do you believe it can lead you to salvation?

Is the organization your refuge?

Can you be devoted to God AND an organization?  

"Jehovah God rightly expects each of us to maintain a devoted attachment to him and his visible earthly organization."  Ps 30:4; 31:23  km 8/82 pp. 1-3

Check out the scriptures they use.  Do they mention any other recipient of devotion, other than to God?  So then, does God expect us to be devoted to an earthly organization?  They can't back up their expectations with scripture.  

A devoted attachment is equally given to God and the organization by JWs.  Break it down.  What does having a devoted attachment to God mean to you?  

 From your Bible:   “I Jehovah your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion.”  Exod 20:5

“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. "

 

Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it.  Deut 12:32

Every word of God is flawless;
    he is a shield for him who takes refuge in him.

Do not add to his words
    lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar.  Prov 30:5,6

 

 

 

 

You are all confused. Did God have a nation in the past? Yes, the house of Israel was God's nation. God's Kingdom on earth, with a fleshly king representing it. There was nothing idolatrous about that idea. But as you know, the nation of Israel was later rejected by God and as Jesus said to the Jews: "This is why I say to you, the Kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits". This became the Christian congregation made up of not only anointed Jews (Israelites) but also anointed Gentiles. Hence, this new nation came to be known as "spiritual Israel", who with those not anointed (the other sheep) became one flock. 1 Pet. 2:9.

JW.org is a website. The Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses is the worldwide congregation of anointed and the other sheep. If you want to call it an organization there is nothing wrong with that, since it is organized to accomplish  God's will on earth, which is the preaching of the Kingdom and making disciples: "Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.” ( Matthew 28:18-20) This worldwide congregation is not lead or headed by a fleshly King like in Israelite times, nor any other human,  but a heavenly king Jesus Christ. He is the head of the congregation. Matthew 23:10 

There is nothing idolatrous about that arrangement, and giving support to it is not being idolatrous but it is supporting Jesus' arrangement.

And again I repeat, jw.org is a website, it is not the Christian Congregation, but merely a modern aid to disseminating the Kingdom good news.