2 hours ago, Indiana said:

Do JWs see permanent makeup the same way as they see tattoos? 

Most of them don't. Microblading is all the rage right now, and all the sister's eyebrows seem to look the same lately.

27 minutes ago, Witness said:

But...the jw dot org flag symbolizes Watchtower's treasure; the treasure of a homeland.  

No, it doesn't symbolize anything. It advertises the website*. If you can see crosses and other "symbolism" in things that are not there, then that explains everything else you say.

* which has been set up solely for the purpose of Bible education, with a small portion dedicated to JW news. 

Get with the times Witness. You are not still wearing 1st century fashion are you?

10 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

But not using it when they want to accuse ADULTS of fornication. 

Yes they are.

3 hours ago, Witness said:

Inukshuk - among the oldest and most important objects placed by humans upon the vast Arctic landscape - are a sacred symbol. The figure is the Inuit symbol of their homeland and these people tradition forbids the destruction of these objects.

If it wasn't a symbol of veneration, it wouldn't be forbidden to remove it.  

I doubt the Canadian Bethel would go so far as to adopt the northern territory flag of Canada with an Inuksuk already on it, because it is a FLAG representing another nation; and JWs don’t “venerate” flags of other nations.    However, the organization does have its own flag that symbolizes a homeland, so why not put the Inuksuk on the jw dot org flag to symbolize the preaching work of a nation?

 

 

Now you're getting ridiculous. Not every flag out there symbolizes a nation. Some flags advertise an organization, company, product or a cause. They are called advertising  banners, and some are in the shape of a flag.

3 hours ago, Witness said:

If your words were true and that’s all there was to it, no one would be shunned or disfellowshipped for rejecting “Jehovah’s organization”.  Rev 13:1,5-7,11,15-17 

Ok, I agree there is more to it. As opposed to other organizations, this one also strives to be morally and spiritually clean. The apostle Paul said to remove, and have nothing to do with those who do things contrary to scripture.

What even does shunning and disfellowshipping for rejecting the org. have to do with worshiping the org. ? You may need to revisit your understanding of what worship means.

I do not see any relevance of your  Rev. citation.

17 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

He grinned, but said "Well.... they have their place ..."

I rolled my eyes, but did not say anything more.

Come on James, it's just for the children. Nothing to do with marketing. When Caleb and Sophia came out I thought my kids were too old for it, so we never watched the cartoons or little videos. Now my kids are full grown. So what I am trying to say is our family has not really had much to do with that fictional family. Perhaps if my children had been younger, we may have been more involved. But regardless, kids grow up (real quick) so even if someone has had the pleasure of having Caleb and Sophia in their life, it's only temporary. After that, us adults like to get on with other things (hopefully). The only time I hear about Caleb and Sophia is when you bring it up on here. Honestly!

17 minutes ago, Witness said:

JWs already venerate an idol - the organization

There you go again. No, the organization is there to get one from A to B and to preach the Kingdom. That's why it's an organization.

or·gan·i·za·tion

1. an organized body of people with a particular purpose, especially a business, society, association, etc.

7 minutes ago, Witness said:

I knew someone would come up with an "explanation" that it''s not the same as any other pagan idol.  I really can't believe your reasoning.  This isn't just spring water, or salt or a cow.  It's a well-known sacred idol that the Watchtower has adopted as their mascot in Canada, for the preaching work.  

Sacred ‘Sign Posts’ Of The Inuit People

A. Sutherland - AncientPages.com - The mysterious stone figures known as Inukshuk can be found throughout far northern areas of Alaska, Canada, Siberia, and Greenland. Inukshuk (the singular of 'inuksuit') means "in the likeness of a human" (or "that which acts in the capacity of a human") in the Inuit language.

They are man-made stone landmark, with many different meanings, used by the Inuit for communication,  navigation, as a marker for travel routes, fishing places, camps, hunting grounds, places of worship, drift fences used in hunting or to mark a food storage.

The traditional meaning of the Inukshuk is "Someone was here" or "You are on the right path."

For the Inuit people living in the circumpolar regions, Inukshuk arrangement of stones, especially its arms and legs, indicates the purpose of the marker.

Inukshuk - among the oldest and most important objects placed by humans upon the vast Arctic landscape - are a sacred symbol. The figure is the Inuit symbol of their homeland and these people tradition forbids the destruction of these objects.

An inukshuk (also known as inuksuk) is often venerated as symbolizing an ancestor who knew how to survive on the land in the traditional way. The figure can be small or large, a single rock, several rocks balanced on each other, round boulders or flat. Built from whatever stones are at hand, each one is unique.

The so-called the Hammer of Thor,  a 3.3 me (10.8 ft) tall, t-shaped, man-made rock formation is located along the Arnaud River in the Ungava Peninsula, Quebec, Canada. It was believed to have been erected by Vikings in reference to the hammer-wielding Thor of Norse mythology. However, it most likely is an artifact of Inuit culture.

Today, the inuksuk statue continue to serve as an Inuit cultural symbol. It is the centrepiece of the flag and coat of arms of the Canadian territory of Nunavut, and the flag of Nunatsiavut.

http://www.ancientpages.com/2018/09/04/sacred-sign-posts-of-the-inuit-people/

 

You can post as many explanations as you like, but with your previous arguments about the supposed crosses I am of the impression that you are desperately looking for anything that signifies some dark intentions of the WT.  And yet, if it wasn't for the org. you would most likely be holding the cross sacred today.

From reading your extract from ancientpages.com I can still see that the inuksuk was not made for veneration but "is often venerated as symbolizing an ancestor". Two different things. I guess my point about humans finding anything to venerate was lost on you. Jehovah's Witnesses are not opposed to cultural heritage, and that is why the inuskuk is at the Canadian Bethel. I wouldn't read anymore into it than that.

11 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

.... however, as I told my CO one day when he asked what I thought about the organization "I can do without Caleb and Sophia".

Who knows, the CO might have felt the same....

On 3/11/2019 at 11:03 AM, Witness said:

Why not put a clay Buddha statue on the living room coffee table simply because he appears so benevolent?  Or, a gilded wooden cross on the wall because it is a superb piece of art.  Or, a statue of Mary, Peter or Joseph in the garden.  Again, they are just formed of earthen clay. 

Because the Buddha, gilded wooden cross, and statues of saints were made specifically for the purpose of veneration.

It seems that the primary and original purpose of the inuksuk was navigational aids and not objects of veneration.  But as with everything, humans who do not know the truth about Jehovah attach spiritual significance to just about anything they want. In India the cow becomes holy,  for Christendom salt becomes holy (blessed salt), For Muslims a natural spring of water (the Zamzam well) becomes holy...etc. etc. The point is a cow is a cow, salt is salt, a spring is a spring. Just because people decide to turn something that originally had no such significance into something different, that’s their problem. The inuksuk has no such significance at the Canadian Bethel. It would be like saying we can’t use salt because some religion blesses it and makes it holy. Now it would be totally different if this item was made to have spiritual significance from its creation, like your aforementioned examples. But it is clear that the inuksuk originally had no such significance.

On 3/11/2019 at 1:54 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

WT publications shows how JW people have to be obedient to secular law but with exceptions. Disobedience to Secular Law is right way in two cases: If God forbid something or command something different than Secular Law. And second is, if your Conscience told you to do or not to do no matter what is obligated by Secular Law. 

But WT publications going further to explain to their readers how Your Conscience is not trustful, so it is not good to listen conscience which is not trained by Bible. How person training his conscience? By reading Bible. But reading Bible alone is not enough.Quote:  - What does this illustrate? That our private reading of the Bible is not enough. Jehovah, by his spirit, uses the faithful and discreet slave class to help us to understand his Word at the right time. How is this done? - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2002883#h=22

Well, take then in consideration main thing in this issue - Listening God and what He say you should doing. But here we have again the same problem. WHO will explain you what God teaching people. Again, you need Class of People aka GBFDS Class who will told you, interpret You, what is God Will for You.

Enjoy.

 In France, for example, people are generally reasonable and fair-minded. However, a few opposers have promoted laws aimed at crippling the Kingdom work. How have Jehovah’s Witnesses there reacted? They have intensified their activity in the field as never before and with thrilling results. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2005925

But how far does this subjection to political authorities go? Is it unlimited? Is obedience to human law even more important than obedience to the law of God? Certainly not! Notice that in the scripture just quoted the “compelling reason” for obedience is said to include “your conscience.” So, one’s conscience is not to be ignored, especially if that conscience has been trained by the Word of God. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101968018

Thus, your conscience is designed to enable you to evaluate situations, make right choices, and judge yourself on the choices you have made. But can you trust it?...So it is wise to listen to your conscience. But it is wiser still to compare all that we do with God’s will as revealed in his Word. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101993489

Because our work was banned, the brothers needed to be alert when witnessing.....We often started conversations with those who did not support the Communist government—the so-called dissidents—who tended to be more open-minded.” - https://wol.jw.org/ase/wol/d/r266/lp-asl/202011198

Every law and statute that is in harmony with righteousness the true Christians will obey in an exemplary fashion. But any law and demand made in conflict with the superior laws and commandments of God they will not obey, for that would mean to render to “Caesar” what belongs to God. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1950841

We obey the government because that is what God wants us to do. But if we are told to do something that God says we should not do, what should we say?— We should say what the apostles said to the high priest: “We must obey God as ruler rather than men.” - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102003048

We accept Jehovah’s authority and obey him even if we do not fully understand the reason for some requirement set out in his Word. This is not credulity; it is trust. It reflects heartfelt confidence that Jehovah knows what is good for us.... In accepting Jehovah’s authority, we need to guard against an independent spirit. A haughty attitude can cause us to feel that we do not need guidance from anyone. For example, we might resist counsel given by those taking the lead among God’s people. God has established an arrangement by which a faithful and discreet slave class provides spiritual food at the proper time....14 Accepting Jehovah’s authority involves responding to counsel based on his Word. For example, the faithful and discreet slave class has been admonishing us to “stay awake and keep our senses.”...Spiritual food from the faithful and discreet slave class is disseminated to local congregations by appointed elders. The Bible admonishes us: “Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over your souls as those who will render an account; that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you.” (Heb. 13:17) Does this mean that congregation elders are infallible? Of course not! God sees their imperfections more clearly than any human can. Still, he expects us to be submissive. Cooperating with the elders, even though they are imperfect, gives evidence that we accept Jehovah’s authority. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2008451

I see scriptures that support every idea mentioned.

53 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I am 72 years old... and am a BIG fan of Pooh Bear!

 

 

 

That's OK. He's a bear.

6 hours ago, Witness said:

Because they believed then that Christ died on a cross. They no longer do. Is it that flabbergasting?

They used to have the cross and the crown emblem as well, it's to the left of the same WT. The cross stood for Jesus's sacrifice and the crown symbolized the crown of life that the anointed would receive after death.

As for the castle windows, as @James Thomas Rook Jr. says: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrowslit

40 minutes ago, Witness said:

If a “branch” is part of the “vine” of Christ, it’s fruit also would be well worth “eating”. 

And if it's not, it gets lopped off. So leave it to Jehovah.

6 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

"I can do without Caleb and Sophia".

And you know why, because if you were into Caleb and Sophia that would be really weird, since you are an adult.

6 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I STRONGLY suspect there is another  horizontal piece obscured by perspective below the ones shown here, looking like a "cross", exactly like the one shown, below on each vertical member, to attach to the sheets of plate glass, through holes in the glass,  to keep it from flexing, in high wind.  

 I don't think you have to suspect:

8 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

What we do know is that JW Broadcasting has turned GB members into media stars and they are not especially happy about that. Thus the Bethel tour requests not to ooh and aah if you see one of them in the hallway, and the published counsel that they do not want to be accosted for selfies. Prior to this, they were not publicly recognizable figures to me, though I’m sure they were to some, nor did I necessarily know how many of them they were at any given time.

This is not a reply to you TTH, just general. What would someone do, anyone, if Moses came back,  or Abraham? Of course I am not comparing members of the GB to those particular characters, what I am comparing is the aspect of fame due to the simple fact that they are known by a large number of people. To be known by many people means that as a rule you will be famous, whether you like it or not. That's all there is to it. What I do know is that members of the GB try their best to blend in where they can, and most Witnesses respect that. A few years back we had Br.Losch at out convention. Him and his wife sat just one row in front of us, with everyone else. After the session, he did not get inundated with friends trying to speak to him. In fact he was able to eat his lunch in peace, and even afterwards there was no commotion around him. On the other hand, as some have noticed, Br. Lett likes pictures with the br. and. sis. So what? Some people are more people persons than others...

On 3/9/2019 at 6:26 PM, Witness said:

I posted a picture of a pagan idol

Isn't an idol something you worship? Otherwise it's just sticks and stones in the shape of a man isn't it?

Or firewood:

"He plants a laurel tree, and the rain makes it grow. Then it becomes fuel for a man to make fires. He takes part of it to warm himself; He builds a fire and bakes bread. But he also makes a god and worships it. He makes it into a carved image, and he bows down before it. Half of it he burns up in a fire With that half he roasts the meat that he eats, and he is satisfied. He also warms himself and says: “Ah! I am warm as I watch the fire. But the rest of it he makes into a god, into his carved image. He bows down to it and worships it. He prays to it and says: “Save me, for you are my god.” They know nothing, they understand nothing,Because their eyes are sealed shut and they cannot see, And their heart has no insight.  No one reflects in his heart Or has knowledge or understanding, saying: “Half of it I burned up in a fire, And on its coals I baked bread and roasted meat to eat. Should I, then, make the rest of it into a detestable thing? Should I worship a block of wood from a tree?”” Isaiah 44: 15-19

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

The Best what exist in this World ? 

If they are based on the Bible then yes.

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

(written in WTJWorg publications and other Not Public documents aka "For Elders Eyes Only" books and memos, letters from HQ, with Rules, Laws and Procedures how to deal with Sinners, Disobedient One, Dissidents and other Hostile Elements in Congregations, 

Actually, these things are not secret, any publisher can read about them in various publications. ("Organized to do Jehovah's Will" and WT articles.).

5 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It is the disunited world that Christians came out of. Why on earth would anyone want to go back into it.

Exactly!

40 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

@Anna  I do worry about you. And when you said 'we' I almost knew you meant the Elders. So then it got me thinking are you in fact a man, an Elder.

However, you seem to talk in different manners at different times, making me think that you are different people. Possibly two or more people using the same name on the same computer, working as a team.. 

The expression 'My bad' seems to only come from one of your personas. But in other cases you talk correctly.  Confusing to say the least. 

You are overthinking it John! I am just an ordinary sister. And I explained why I said "we".

3 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

Aren't all jws consider ministers? 

Yes, they are. But not all ministers are considered clergy, because not all ministers are shepherds.

So my saying "we" was still wrong.

2 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

And just as important ..... who does the Watchtower consider to be Clergy, and who does the Watchtower consider among us NOT to be Clergy.

The question above remains unanswered by the Society .

It is answered. And I just answered it too. It's not rocket science James

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

who does the Watchtower consider to be Clergy, and who does the Watchtower consider among us NOT to be Clergy.

Those who are considered clergy must obviously  be those who are Shepherds (pastors, performing pastoral duty) of the congregation. I'm not a shepherd, so I'm not clergy.