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Anna

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Everything posted by Anna

  1. Anna
    I thought that the main concern is that there is an inquiry done by the authorities, as most on here commented that: THAT is a proper inquiry: "leave it to the authorities who are qualified" . So even if elders used some kind of buddy system to cover up for each other, the authorities would perform their own PROPER inquiry and investigation, the elders sticking up for one another and saying there is no internal case to answer will make no difference to the authorities who are qualified to investigate these matters because an allegation has been reported to them, and they will do their work.
  2. Anna
    Ok, you don't want to discuss it, fair enough, although you were the one who brought the two witness rule up and said it was a problem. So I will reiterate for others in case it is not clear to them either: The two witness rule only applies to the elders handling an accusation of child abuse in the congregation. The two witness rule does not prevent anyone from taking the matter to the police as stated clearly in par 15 of the study WT May 2019 : https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-may-2019/love-justice-face-of-wickedness/ which says: .".......Does this mean that before an allegation of abuse can be reported to the authorities, two witnesses are required? No. This requirement does not apply to whether elders or others report allegations of a crime. I am not quite sure, because John won't explain, so I will have to guess: Despite this clear black on white statement in the WT, it seems that John's concern was that elders would not actually follow through. Well....I would think that since this WT article is going to be studied by almost all of Jehovah's Witnesses, then I would think that any one of those Jehovah's Witnesses would feel free to report an allegation to the authorities even if there were no two witnesses, in other words even if the elders were unable to handle the situation congregationally because of a lack of two witnesses. So IF an elder for some reason would feel that a publisher should not report it, because there isn't enough evidence, (two witnesses) then all the publisher has to do is show him this clear statement in the WT. Done.
  3. Anna
    I was just trying to remind you of our last conversation that we had, since you said you were lost....
  4. Anna
    @JOHN BUTLER I wanted to know why you were so upset over this conversation we had about the two witness rule: Paragraph 15 :................ Does this mean that before an allegation of abuse can be reported to the authorities, two witnesses are required? No. This requirement does not apply to whether elders or others report allegations of a crime. Read more You really cannot be bothered to understand what I'm saying so i cannot be bothered to continue answering you. Read more Please explain what you mean. * Paragraph 15, last sentence: https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-may-2019/love-justice-face-of-wickedness/
  5. Anna
    Obviously there are some who push the boundaries and think it's ok as long as there is no actual intercourse/oral sex involved. You know, they rationalize.... a bit like Clinton, when he said he wasn't being unfaithful to his wife because oral sex isn't really sex. The WT wouldn't have printed this unless it was a problem.
  6. Anna
    Lol
  7. Anna
    What have you been smoking? I didn't even bother replying to that. It's just too ridiculous...
  8. Anna
    Paragraph 15 :................ Does this mean that before an allegation of abuse can be reported to the authorities, two witnesses are required? No. This requirement does not apply to whether elders or others report allegations of a crime. You really cannot be bothered to understand what I'm saying so i cannot be bothered to continue answering you. Please explain what you mean. * Paragraph 15, last sentence: https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-may-2019/love-justice-face-of-wickedness/
  9. Anna
    I am very bothered, please explain. What is it that I misunderstood?
  10. Anna
    Paragraph 15 :................ Does this mean that before an allegation of abuse can be reported to the authorities, two witnesses are required? No. This requirement does not apply to whether elders or others report allegations of a crime.
  11. Anna
    What part of the world do you think it conveys, if not the whole earth? "those who are a part of the congregation" excludes elders?
  12. Anna
  13. Anna
    Same answer I gave to John: https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-may-2019/love-justice-face-of-wickedness/ https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-may-2019/comfort-victims-of-abuse/
  14. Anna
    If some don't know anything abot it, they will by now, or at the latest in July. https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-may-2019/
  15. Anna
    I don't see a problem there at all. The two witness rule is irrelevant when it comes to reporting to the police, as has been mentioned several times already. The two witness rule is only for elders handling the issue.
  16. Anna
    Before I respond, I would like to say, and I am sure you would agree, the main objective of ANY action would be to protect children by preventing child abuse from happening. So in view of that: How would that help? How would that be helpful in preventing child abuse? Would this list be posted on JW.org? And would their addresses be there too? I am sure this is actually illegal, at least in the United States. Only the Police have the right to make such a list, it's called the sex offender registry. Do you have something similar in Croatia? How would that protect children? This is one point I agree with. I do know that elders have apologized to victims on an individual basis if they have mishandled a case. But it's unrealistic and unfair to have to apologize in all instances. How can elders apologize for the sexual misconduct of a father against his children, especially if the elders have no idea such molestation has been going on? Because remember, molesters do this in secret and they are very good at hiding what they do. It may be years later, when the child grows up, that the elders find out. As for collectively, as an organization....perhaps it will happen.
  17. Anna
    It says: "Depending on the facts of the actual situation, this COULD constitute sexual immorality". In other words if the actual situation involved intercourse/oral sex, then that would constitute sexual immorality.......(and would be grounds for divorce).
  18. Anna
    Yes, there would have still been an inquiry. The ARC wasn't concerned about church discipline or ex- communication. The ARC wanted the police informed. Which practically no one in society did in those days. This is why the ARC was set up in the first place, to address a national problem, so that the government could put specific laws in place so that the issue of child abuse could be addressed better. You didn't answer my question: Do you have all the facts and detail regarding those cases?
  19. Anna
    What do you think they should say?
  20. Anna
    so what DID you see?
  21. Anna
    Do you have all the the information on all 1006 cases?
  22. Anna
    adjective: permissive 1. allowing or characterized by great or excessive freedom of behavior. "the permissive society of the 60s and 70s" synonyms: liberal, broad-minded, open-minded, nonrestrictive, free, free and easy, easygoing, live-and-let-live, latitudinarian, laissez-faire, libertarian, unprescriptive, unrestricted, tolerant, forbearing, indulgent, lenient; More No, Jehovah Witnesses have never been permissive or tolerant towards immorality of any kind. Anyone practicing these things is disfellowshipped.
  23. Anna
    I am assuming you are talking about your personal experience in your congregation hiding an abuser? I am sorry John, but you make it sound like there is a pedophile lurking in every congregation. Let’s get real here, people from the “outside” are more at risk of being raped and their children molested than inside a congregation. Also, most of the cases have been familial, as you mention later on, which means it would have happened regardless of being part of a congregation or not. Just because someone claims to be a faithful JW doesn't make him so. First of all, to be effective in being against something you have to have all the facts about that something. It’s no good throwing accusations around based on limited information. Then you’d be like the tabloid newspapers, all about sensationalism and misleading selective quotes. And no matter how much objective information you've read, and how many court cases you've studied, you still will not have all the facts. You'd only have those if you were a fly on the wall. So are you here talking about your congregation? Or in general? I disagree with you there. I am not sure how you dealt with it, I know you wrote a letter, but did you give the elders a chance to explain themselves? No one is disfellowshipped for being worried and showing genuine concern. Especially when they take this worry and concern to the elders, rather than the congregants. It’s the elders who are responsible for the congregation. They are the ones who need to know. We can add other atrocities, incurable ailments, and all kinds of tragedies. This is the legacy that Adam and Eve have left mankind. Remember, the whole world is lying in Satan’s power. No one is immune. True, you can talk all you like, but it’s not going to be effective if no one listen, is it? And I thought that was your motive, for people to hear you.
  24. Anna
    I think you must have missed my post about that. Lett didn't say child abuse was apostate lies and propaganda, he wasn't denying there was a problem. What he said was that us denying there is a problem, and ignoring child abuse, is apostate lies. I will reply to the rest of your post later. I can't right now.
  25. Anna
    Yes, you are not in a good position to talk anymore. It's too late. The time to say anything is when you are still a member of the congregation. And that's when what I said in the previous post applies. I still think you were too hasty in your assessment of the child abuse issues. When something is going on, that I feel is not good, I always think of this scripture: "For there is nothing hidden that will not be exposed; nothing is carefully concealed that will not come out in the open" Mark 4:22 When the Australian Commission inquiry first started, I spoke with a faithful, long time sister in Australia, I wanted to know what she thought about it, and she quoted that same scripture to me. What I am saying is there is no reason to jump ship. We may not agree with something, or may believe something is downright wrong. But we have to put things into the right perspective. The worldwide brotherhood has many many good things, and most brothers and sisters have genuine love for each other and a desire to walk modestly with their God, and a desire to live a good clean life according to the Bible. If we stick with our brothers and sisters, and wait on Jehovah to sort things out, that need sorting out, we cannot lose. And IF the leadership (GB) would go down, so what, we still have our brothers and sisters and most of all Jehovah.
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