Anna

18 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

you said you didn't think it was fair that i stated this, but it's fair because i wasn't the one to disclose it. as i said above he self-identified. note the words i highlighted in red, from his own words, just three weeks ago...

 

Sure. I didn't even see that comment. But the post you commented on was addressed to me. Of course I'm not saying you can't comment on posts addressed to other people,  but I was just wondering why you had to mention that, since we are supposed to be discussing topics and ideas rather than people and their motives and levels of competence. That's all. But sometimes I guess those things are inseparable.

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Neil Mc Fadzen has self-identified as 'scholar' on another forum and as @scholar JW here

I already had that figured out, as might have others. But I don't think it's fair you state it.

16 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

they have no concern when they misquote or take out of context other sources...

You know that do you?

19 minutes ago, DeeDee said:

and I saw that the JW's had a book that REALLY taught the Bible, I KNEW that I had FINALLY found the TRUTH!!!

Ok, but I don't think that really answered my question. Just because someone says they will tell you what the Bible REALLY says doesn't guarantee they are telling you the truth does it. 

20 minutes ago, DeeDee said:

Anna's post: So what was the KEY that finally helped you to find the Truth?

A brother came to my door and showed me the book "What does the Bible REALLY Teach?" I said to him: "That is what I have ALWAYS wanted to know!!!" I started a Bible Study immediately and have been grateful that Jehovah rescued me from Satan's system ever since!!

P.S. That is why the work that we do is so VERY important...We are helping Jehovah to save the lives of people who love him so very much, but don't know how to find him.

So what convinced you it was the Truth?

9 minutes ago, DeeDee said:

12 minutes ago, Anna said:

2 hours ago, DeeDee said:

Satan had used my love for God and zeal for the truth and turned that zeal into an "idol" to mislead me AWAY from the TRUE God...

If you don't mind me asking, how?

I spent YEARS of my life searching for the truth in other religions.

So what was the KEY that finally helped you to find the Truth?

1 hour ago, DeeDee said:

We have to make sure that our love and zeal does not get misplaced.

It's funny, but our love and zeal can get misplaced without accurate knowledge! As you know, there are many persons of other religions who have love and zeal but not according to what we say is accurate knowledge.

1 hour ago, DeeDee said:

Satan had used my love for God and zeal for the truth and turned that zeal into an "idol" to mislead me AWAY from the TRUE God...

If you don't mind me asking, how?

1 hour ago, DeeDee said:

If we are not careful, our deep love for knowledge and the truth can become more important to us than our love for Jehovah and doing his will

I think what you mean is that we should not allow head knowledge to override our emotional attachment to Jehovah?

On 1/2/2018 at 2:45 PM, scholar JW said:

Dates are not essential for salvation but accurate knowledge leading to Wisdom is a most worthy spiritual pursuit.as I am sure you appreciate.

Yes I do, but you do realize not everyone has the opportunity to study chronology for themselves, I mean really study. Not only that, but going to original sources for this kind of research is not really encouraged by the Slave.

On 1/2/2018 at 2:45 PM, scholar JW said:

I omitted Gerard Gertoux not because he is a competent Chronologist but because his Witness status is uncertain and he has been publicly vague on this point. If I remember correctly he stated that as he was a PhD candidate he did not want his Thesis compromised in any way so has minimized his activity. Perhaps I should have mentioned his name as follows: Gerard Gertoux?

Of course we both know that Gerard does not support 607. I assume you are not mentioning that aspect because that would only confirm what I said before; Witnesses are judged by whether they believe in 607 or not. 

The fact is he WAS a witness at one time but as you say, his present status is uncertain. But why are we doubting his Witness status in the first place? Why does the fact that he does not support 607 automatically change his status from being a brother to maybe not being a brother?

28 minutes ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

Meanwhile, I'll tell you what will happen soon.
The preaching work will be prohibited in all countries of the ex Soviet Union (stay to watch).
The king of the north will launch an attack on Israel (first they will only be strong denunciations and after military attack).
This will lead to war between the king of the north and the king of the south.
Obviously the brothers will say that "the great tribulation has begun" (exactly as it happened in the first and then in the second world war).
As the king of the north wins victories, the work of Jehovah's Witnesses will be banned in other nations.

Well, that could be another alternative. But it doesn't make any difference to those who will keep on doing God's will no matter what.

5 hours ago, DeeDee said:

5 hours ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

Can we honestly say that we love God if we do not love His Word?

 

Obviously, No…but we must be sure that we do not make the Bible an “idol” or love it more than loving Jehovah and wanting to please Jehovah by doing his will.

I agree with a lot of your sentiments, but I find this statement of yours really strange. I believe you may not have meant to write it this way.  We only find out about Jehovah through the Bible (and creation). We can make idols out of what he has created, but to make an idol out of his inspired word? How would that be possible? Without his word we wouldn't even know his will would we? We love Jehovah by loving his word surely. There are many scriptures that show approval of people loving his laws.  Can we say we love his laws more than we love him? Wouldn't you say the two are intrinsically tied together.

Will someone post page 208?

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I wonder how they could have known that for sure. Did they take a survey of 9,500 different persons?

That could be a good "Question from readers". Why don't you send it in? 

4 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

The org has made 2 statements that when combined are concerning:

1. It is the exclusive source of true spiritual food. 

2. Its content is copyrighted.

I just can't bring myself to understand this to mean that they are attempting to copyright the Bible. I mean when they say they are the exclusive source of spiritual food, who do you think they are talking to? Surely not people in general? Do you think that Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Catholics etc. view our publications and the website as true spiritual food? So aren't they logically just talking to Jehovah's Witnesses? And it's nothing new when they say the Slave is the source the of true spiritual food. We wouldn't go to a Catholic website  (for example) for spiritual food would we? 

So they are saying to Witnesses that only those websites and apps they cite in the article are the real and official ones, and that if you want spiritual food, those are the real and official sources of it. Not some Joe Witness who has set up his own, and plastered it with jw.org logos and Caleb and Sophia images, which he shouldn't have because they are copyrighted, for the very reason to prevent people like him from doing what he did and inadvertently causing gullible Witnesses to assume his website came straight from Bethel.

4 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

If the org truly believes both of these things, then they must believe they legally own true Bible discussion and interpretation.

Funny. People can discuss whatever they like, as long as they don't misquote the org. But there is such a thing as "fair use" as well

https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/more-info.html

56 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I would think you would be cheered by recent direction of Jehovah's Witnesses. Magazines will be but 6 a year, and then they will repeat. No more countenancing of those who fall into magazine placing

Also, I like the new system at our midweek meeting for "sample conversations" which will now be formatted to systematically develop one  Bible thought at a time, from the initial call trough to the first and second return visit.

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

We don't take no selfies with nobody.

Except Br. Lett. He loves selfies with the friends. I can attest to that as he was present at one of our circuit assemblies and my friend took one with him. There was a whole long line waiting to do the same thing. Ironically it was after one of those talks about Idol worship, or something like that. As we passed our friends, my husband and I said to each other loudly so they would hear "see those Idol worshipers". It's OK, they know us well and laughed. We like to rib people.

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

When JW explaining to other people in preaching, for example,"how is possible that people doing so bad things, as killing in wars, when all people in fact want peace?, then JW provide explanation that all World are under influence of devil. That also means how one person under influence of devil can make also influence on other people and drag them into the violence with or without their deep, inner consent

But you know it’s no excuse to say “the devil made me!" (made me do something bad). So even though the whole world is under the influence of the devil, people can still chose to do the right thing .  But to analyze the statement you made; people want peace, but the problem is they want it on their terms. This is where the devil's influence comes into play. Do you think that such traits as pride, nationalism, racism, lack of self control etc. contribute to actual peace? Those are the devil's traits and the world is saturated with them. There will be no peace as long as people refuse to clothe themselves with “a Christ like personality”.

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Ap. Paul was under influence (did he want to renounce, deny Jesus willingly or not??).......

But also history make weak such claim, belief. People can doing something against their will because they can be DECEIVED. If you are deceived then you are doing someone else's will not your. :))) Because you are without your full awareness and consciousness of what is happening in fact. Question of cognitive dissonance is just problem more that can make this situacion harder. But then we are on a doorstep when we are in moment to found the real truth or to go back to the image of the truth.  

We can take the concept of “free will” into the realms of philosophy, and it gets very complicated. I believe common sense triumphs over philosophy any day, in that it’s actually useful and practical! I am just talking about the good old classic free will, where I decide to do something regardless of whether I was deceived or guilted (or whatever) into it. In my opinion, one has accepted the true concept of free will when one also accepts the consequences of it, and quits blaming deception, guilt, cognitive dissonance, imperfection or “whatever” for making a particular decision.  Although you meant Peter (as @Melinda Mills pointed out) the apostle Paul did lament the effects of imperfection in Romans 7:15-21. However, he was not just washing his hands off the whole problem and blaming imperfection for his decisions if they were wrong, what he was doing was acknowledging that it was a frequent battle to do the right thing, and he pointed out that one can win that battle with God's help.

Peter denied Jesus 3 times. No one made him do it. He was not under Satan's influence. It was his own weakness, and fear of man, his imperfection, just like what Paul mentions, that caused him to fail for a few moments. It was still his choice at that moment though and I don't recall him putting the blame on anyone or anything else for that choice.

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Within reason, there is nothing wrong with ad homenem attacks

The only problem with those is when used in the wrong setting they are distracting and take away from the real issue. It's annoying when the messenger is attacked, instead of the message.

13 hours ago, Arauna said:

16 hours ago, Anna said:

How many friends that you know actually do this??

How many worldly people do this? 

No, I actually meant friends in the truth.

13 hours ago, Arauna said:

I always ask:  why am I doing this?  or this other person doing this?  This is why I ask the questions here on this forum when I see scriptures being misapplied or so much credence given to secular material (that is not proven to be infallible) and this held up to discredit the dates given by the slave and therefore the entire "administration" of Jehovah throughout the ages being called into question.  

I understand, but maybe you did not read my other post to you* where I mention that I haven't seen you presenting any valid counter arguments which could convince an unbiased observer to side with your explanation. What I said was that your arguments would not stand up in trial.  It's like the opposition is talking about apples and you are talking about oranges. The opposition is talking about dates (not the fruit ) and numbers, and you are talking about feelings and motives and evidence on the ground....

13 hours ago, Arauna said:

Failing to understand 1914 really water's the truth down somewhat and allows one to automatically reject many of the scriptures that are available to show where we are in the stream of time such the dream of Nebuchadnezzar relating to the gentile time

How is that? As far as I know, probably more than 90% of the friends (Jehovah's Witnesses) do not understand 1914, or to be more specific, do not understand how we arrive at 1914, and don't even try.

13 hours ago, Arauna said:

Faith is important - but Jehovah knew that us simple folks - we always need small steps to look forward to and he lovingly gave it to us.... and what is more.... the proof of the pudding is the eating....... world events since 1914 has proven that it is a 'reality'...... We will soon be seeing the last prophecies regarding Babylon the great, the call to peace and security...and the 8th king in action.... as a matter of fact - religions seem to be riding the beast as we speak..... 

Yes. Us simple folks need numbers. Numbers are nice. People like numbers and dates. They help to tangibly anchor ideas or situations in the stream of time. Without dates it's just not the same. Try reading a biography or a report without them. And of course not to mention the fact that dates are essential for establishing time periods in history and a billion other things. Jehovah is the arbiter of time, and is the great timekeeper. BUT that does not mean the dates and numbers and lengths of periods we simple folks put together are always correct are they? What has happened to the millions that were not supposed to die? (they did). What has happened to the generation that was not supposed to pass away? (they have, practically) What has happened to the children that were not supposed to even finish school in this system? (they did, and they have children of their own). What has happened to the world that can't get any worse? (it did, and still might) As you say, the proof is in the pudding.

So that is why, when the rubber hits the road, we need to have faith in Jehovah, not man.

(*I wish the posts were numbered so that they could be easily referenced @admin @The Librarian)

4 hours ago, Ann O'Maly said:

"Stick with what we have authorized. You'll be safe." The article just underlines AMIII's admonishment and warning that 'unauthorized' internet activity exposes JWs to "spiritual danger."

Is this forum and those like it GB authorized and approved? Of course not. 

And remember the Question Box from the km 9/07?

"Stick with what we have authorized."

There will always be those who love to research and openly discuss their views online, and thereby have to rationalize away the GB's clear counsel. I say GOOD! because this new article is another attempt at information control.

 

Well Ann, I've got news for you

No one on earth can make anyone do something that they don’t want to do. This has been proved throughout history, when even under duress, and with the threat of death, people have stood their ground.  As you know, only Jehovah can make people do what he wants, but he has only done so on extremely rare occasions under specific circumstances. He created us with a free will and wants us to use that free will. We are completely free to make choices in our lives. But the problem lies in people having a hard time accepting consequences. 

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

so now I have only five ... a rebellious lot ... as we have a fenced in yard, and they romp about STARK NAKED ... their collars with rabies tags hanging on a nail on the front porch.

Sounds like a fun group!

Or the knees did not measure up to the required standard of quality for female legs, and so had to be covered up.

Yes, the skirts on the right have been photo-shopped to go over he knees of the sisters. I suppose some brothers were getting....ummmm...a little..... excited..... at seeing knees?

29 minutes ago, scholar JW said:

 

Anna

Well, I did say that Chronology is 'extremely complex subject so it is not surprising that only a very few Witnesses would be competent in explaining 607 and 1914. In fact, amongst the entire worldwide brotherhood there are possibly only two brothers who have publicly demonstrated competence in Chronology and these brothers are Rolf Furuli in Norway and Neil Mc Fadzen from Australia.

scholar JW

 

Ok. So how is what you said previously even relevant then? And does it make sense that something that is a complex subject, frequented only by a minority, should play such a decisive role by which all are judged either favorably or unfavorably as @Arauna seems to point out.

And by the way what's wrong with the French brother Gerard Gertoux, is he not competent in chronology?

On 12/31/2017 at 10:45 AM, Noble Berean said:

So, basically, the organization has claimed legal ownership of all Bible discussion and Bible interpretation.

No, that is not at all what it means. The Church of Christ's Holly Slippers can claim legal ownership of their Bible discussion and Bible interpretation, as can the WT claim legal ownership of their Bible discussions and interpretation. But to mix the two together, or exchange them whereby it is unclear who says what, could constitute a legal breech of the other party.