Anna

On 12/4/2017 at 2:16 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

You want to.....

 introduce "precedence" :)))?  exceptions from The Rule?

No.......but I can discuss this in the appropriate topic

On 12/3/2017 at 5:18 PM, Noble Berean said:

On 12/3/2017 at 5:03 PM, Anna said:

But maybe we should make this another topic.

Sorry how do I go about that?

There is more than one way, and depending on what device you are using. If you are on a PC, or laptop, there should be an option at the top right hand corner next to "following" and  "reply to this topic" and then there should be "start new topic", you click on that and then put in your title, tags, and the body of your topic and then click submit topic. Or you can go to the complete top right hand side  where you see "create", you click on that and then chose topic, another little window will open and you chose religion -> Abrahamic religions -> Christan -> Jehovah's Witnesses - and then pic one of the subjects you want your topic under, like Bible discussion or whatever, and then you go through the steps I already described to post your topic. Hope that works!

40 minutes ago, tromboneck said:

this generation" is NOT the so-called first group. "This generation" includes both the first group AND the second group.

Not according to that Awake 1968, page 13/14 Quote:  "One way is by noting what Jesus said when he gave his great prophesy about the "last days". After he listed the many events that would mark this period, he also stated: " Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur Matt 24:34. Jesus was obviously speaking about those who were old enough to witness with understanding what took place when the "last days" began.  Jesus was saying that some of those persons who were alive at the appearance of the 'sign of the last days' would still be alive when God brought this system to its end. Even if we presume that youngsters 15vyears of age would be perceptive enough to realize the import of what happened in 1914, it would still make the youngest of "this generation" nearly 70 years old today (in 1968) So the great majority of the generation to what Jesus was referring has already passed away in death. the remaining ones are approaching old age. "And remember Jesus said that the end of this wicked world would come before that generation passed away in death". end of quote

So this is the first group, and like you said, the first group is dead

9 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I was concerned when the GB brought up the topic of 1975 again earlier this year, and think that it was a great error to try to dismiss it by implying that it came from the unauthorized speculation of individuals in the "rank and file" as the GB sometimes have called us.

Maybe we could all explore that VIDEO too. Was that really what it was about, or was there another reason for it?  (I have the convention downloaded on my PC, but I don't know how to cut out just the video part....or is it somewhere on the website now?)

11 minutes ago, Anna said:

I will have to dig this Awake up and look at its contents...

Ooooh, second paragraph; "It's a murder epidemic" declared a Negro student in Atlanta".

LOL

Some things have changed, yet others haven't. It's like reading today's news. No wonder some say " Why,.......... all things are continuing exactly as they were......."

Page 12/13/14: "A crucial question now arises: Is there any indication in God's timetable as to how much time there is left before this system of things comes to its end? Can we know how many more years remain for this violent system of things? The fact that fifty-four years of the period called the "last days" have already gone is highly significant. It means that only a few years, at most, remain before the corrupt system of things dominating the earth is destroyed by God. How can we be so certain of this? (ouch). One way is by noting what Jesus said when he gave his great prophesy about the "last days". After he listed the many events that would mark this period, he also stated: " Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur Matt 24:34. Jesus was obviously (ouch) speaking about those who were old enough to witness with understanding what took place when the "last days" began."  And then it goes into calculating that a 15 year old in 1914 would now be nearly 70 years old. "And remember Jesus said that the end of this wicked world would come before that generation passed away in death. This of itself, tells us that the years left before the foretold end comes cannot be many" Then it goes into calculating the 6000/1975 years etc.  "does this mean that the above evidence positively points to 1975 as the time for the complete and of this system of things? Since the Bible does not specifically state this, no man can say. However, of this we can be sure: the 1970's will certainly see the most critical times mankind has yet known..........If the 1970's should see the intervention by Jehovah God to bring an end to a corrupt world drifting towards ultimate disintegration, that should surely not surprise us"

11 hours ago, JW Insider said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interestingly, "Is time running out for this generation?" would have been quite an appropriate question for what was thought was THE GENERATION (what is now called the first group)....

I will have to dig this Awake up and look at its contents...

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

Of course, it's true that shunning is not a good way of showing that we love our enemies, but I see it as more of an immaturity on our part than a hatred.

I wonder if your post could go under a new topic? I'm not quite finished flogging the 1975 horse, lol. But I don't want this topic to get lost, I definitely think that shunning and disfellowshipping should be revisited.

I personally am not against disfellowshipping, what I am against is being told who and how I must shun, especially when it's a family member. Maybe we all could explore the  VIDEO a little....?

3 hours ago, tromboneck said:

So what? Don't you warn people not to make the same mistakes that you have made if you have found them to be dangerous?

When you put conjecture in print, and then distribute it to thousands of people, who are eagerly looking for a "sign" and then expect them not to get excited, and not talk about it....it is too late!

Plus, it is very likely that those who put this conjecture in print in the first place, believed it was true.

1 hour ago, Anna said:

12 hours ago, AllenSmith25 said:

when we don't heed the counsel of not speculating

Wasn't this a bit of; "do as I say but not as I do" ?

@DefenderOTT you seem to be confused, sorry for not explaining it properly. What I meant was that by their own admission, the FDS had been speculating, but they counseled everyone else not to.

11 hours ago, AllenSmith25 said:

when we don't heed the counsel of not speculating

Wasn't this a bit of; "do as I say but not as I do" ?

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

A psychedelic trip for JWs. Heavy, man.

It seems that whole period was a psychedelic trip of sorts for some JWS!

Nice to have you back. I thought the cat (out of the bag) had got your tongue

1 hour ago, Matthew9969 said:

"prophet" commissioned by Jehovah to declare the good news of God's Messianic kingdom and to give warning to Christendom.

Isn't this what is being referred to as being a prophet in our time? Not someone who comes up with something new to predict. Duh!

Plus, prophet is in quotation marks. I think you know what that means.

3 minutes ago, Noble Berean said:

Keep from becoming causes for stumbling to Jews as well as Greeks and to the congregation of God, just as I am trying to please all people in all things, not seeking my own advantage, but that of the many, so that they may be saved."

Good scripture, but to be honest not sure how it would apply to disfellowshipping, since that is a protective and disciplinary action, which is also meant to bring the person back. 

But maybe we should make this another topic. The video you speak about. I still haven't been able to put my finger on what it is that doesn't sound right about this whole family shunning business, and I wouldn't mind exploring it some more....

P.S. I think if the daughter would be terminally ill, that would be an entirely different kettle of fish

1 hour ago, Gone Fishing said:

Now this raises an interesting angle. Why is that some ex-witnesses can live with their choices and those who remain as witnesses, and others go all nasty and vindictive? Probably for a separate discussion? I might just post it if any think it is worth a look?

I think, in my opinion, those who are nasty and vindictive are those who feel they have been wronged (injustice and all that) and are shunned by their families. Remove the shunning, and I think that would take the wind out of their sails.  Then there are others who just have the need to insist on everyone seeing things their way, and get very upset if you don't agree with them, regardless whether they are shunned or not. 

Perhaps it's not a good idea to take a look. It might bring some rather controversial topics to light...

P.S. Unless you mean discussing the psychological aspect of it rather than any specific reasons...

Just looked at your post again...maybe I misunderstood your question, are you talking about vindictive and nasty Witnesses?

Just going back to the 1967 Charles Sinutko talk, it is eerily similar to what we would hear now, except minus the gore and gloating over the death of billions. Thankfully we have toned down on the descriptive part of the vengeance of Jehovah, including the "see, we told you!" attitude. Also our talks are much more refined in other ways too. But as regards the end, terminology such as "so very near" "on the brink" and whatever other ways of describing the imminent end, that is still the same. Even him mentioning that "many of us have been waiting for the end for many years, and we are getting tired and weary now". I am not criticizing the pep talks to keep us on our toes at all. It was just very strange, listening to a talk given 50 years ago, and it sounding the same as some talks do now. I just thought of that after I read @JW Insider comment regarding Br. Russell imagining people looking back 100 years. Of course we really can look back 100 years now. That is the point JWI was making no doubt.

I wonder if Charles Sinutko is still alive. It would be interesting to talk to him. (There is a story about him in the 2004/8/22 Awake... Interestingly, reading his story, he never mentions 1975).

P.S. "Jehovah has given us a new year.....1975 "meat in due season".......Jehovah has given us.........where have I heard that before? That might explain why I get a little skeptical when I hear this kind of reasoning now....Is it always Jehovah? Or can it be imperfect humans sometimes?

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, tromboneck said:

and 'this generation' includes the first group AND the second group.

Still conjecture I'm afraid....

6 minutes ago, tromboneck said:

There is more to it than the explanation based on Joseph.

Yes, I am aware, I was only being brief. I understand the reasoning behind it. But still, we cannot say that this is what Jesus had in mind....

9 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I gave him my number and told him I'd be happy to talk to him on May 22.

Maybe you should have asked him for his number, and called him!  But no, I don't believe you would be so mean.

I assume he didn't call you. Perhaps he lost your number, but more likely it was this "ego" that has been mentioned on here. Everyone wants to save face, and they do it in all kinds of ways, whether it's selective amnesia, cognitive dissonance...whatever. I wonder what he would have said had you spoken later....

2 hours ago, tromboneck said:

The brothers have instructed us to keep up with fast moving updates when they occur and study to understand the reasons for the changes!

It’s not difficult to understand the reasons at all, as reasons for change, especially with regard to dates or time, are always because the previous understanding was proved to be the wrong understanding. Obviously. For example with the overlapping generation, it was evident that the brothers felt they had to come up with a new understanding for the generation, (what is called the the first group now), since practically all of the first group are dead!  

But you may have not meant that type of reason, since you referred to study. You might have meant the technicality of Bible based explanation that is presented. In this case the “overlapping generation” of Joseph. But that is still conjecture, because we cannot say categorically that this is what Jesus had in mind. And we are back to square one, conjecture, just as it was with the 1975 date.  

29 minutes ago, DefenderOTT said:

All these things, have been misunderstood by many witnesses

I don't see why. Unless all those things were spoken in riddles. Which they weren't. 

3 minutes ago, AnonymousBrother said:

I'm moving back to the US in a couple of weeks (been in Asia 24 years)

Wow, big change! Welcome back

I have a friend who moved to China a year ago, "under cover".

1 minute ago, AnonymousBrother said:

It wasn't. It was an assignment to show biblical references for proper planning.

Supposed to last 6 minutes. Took about 10 (my wife is not native speaker). No one complained and the elders just said "I never thought of it that way."

Amazing what you can do with Scriptures and a little math . . .

I don't know about you, but I have not noticed any discussions about the overlapping generation among the friends. And in my very close circle of friends, most have admitted they have not payed much attention to it, and some even say they do not believe it. Have you found anything similar?

8 minutes ago, AnonymousBrother said:

Pointed out not to ignore things like retirement plans, etc., because this overlapping stuff could easily drag on another 100 years-

Hey! Was that in the outline?

4 minutes ago, AnonymousBrother said:

likely longer as medical tech advances.

Lol!

I've always liked what one father said to his daughter (quoted in one WT): "plan ahead as if Armageddon won't come in your lifetime, but live your life as if it will come tomorrow"

I apologise to those who have heard me say this numerous times before.

Just now, DefenderOTT said:

Under your logic. If people were told NOT TO SPECULATE, then who are the foolish, that didn't LISTEN to the slave?

Once the cat is out of the bag, you can't put it back in, no matter how hard you try.

3 minutes ago, Gone Fishing said:

I think those Americans probably were responsible for the hysteria you know, apart from "Armageddon Ernie" of course

I think you might be right! Enjoyed your post by the way

P.S. I think everyone heard about Armageddon Ernie in the UK, I did too!!