Anna

14 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Logic and reason is not your best characteristic, is it?

You are being too harsh, maybe this is just a 14 year old kid you're talking to.

12 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

http://brebuzz.net/2017/06/19/first-ever-breeam-communities-innovation-credit-is-claimed-by-temple-farm-development/

Interesting article. Basically like it was a couple of hundred years ago, before people started commuting to larger cities for jobs. Funny how people mess up in the name of technology, which is tought oh so brilliant at the time, and then have to back pedal. I wonder how things will function in the new system. People will have to eat and clothe themselves, and not everybody likes to dig in the dirt or sew. Oh, never mind sewing, you got to grow the cotton, make thread, and weave the fabric first...!

You were saying....?

52 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

"Beware, my brothers. In the last days there will be false apostates among you."

Oh it's just vomit dog being bored. And like a naughty bored child he's looking for attention through engaging in outrageous behaviour. This of course will get him the wrong kind of attention because as soon as @The Librarianreturns from sipping Margaritas by the pool, he will find himself out on his rear, I mean ear. For now, he is just collecting more negative points....

8 minutes ago, Vic Vomidog said:

I FIND THIS HIGHLY OFFENSIVE, MISS @The LibrarianANNA IS MAKING FUN OF MY NAME. THE VOMIDOG FAMILY HAS PROUD ROOTS REACHING BACK TO NIMROD. IT IS NOT 'VOMIT DOG!' I AM INSULTED! MAKE HER STOP!

No luck there Vomi, she's on some tropical island tanning her hide and doesn't wish to be bothered

3 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

James, that would not have worked.

I don't think so either Melinda, who would want to be turned upside down

18 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

"This concludes this evening's performance of 'The 1914 Overture,' with Maestro Bruce Q conducting the Forum Orchestra and Chorale, with JTR acccompanying on the cymbals. Maestro Q brilliantly led the orchestra through a strident interpretation of 'Hail to the Chief,' before finally rallying all for a stirring rendition of 'We Will Be Loyal With Caveats!' Our thanks to @The Librarianfor keeping the concert hall open past her bedtime. Tune in next week when we will hear a performance of the timeless opera 'The Overlappers.'"

He he he! By the way, I think the Librarian is on holiday again, otherwise surely she/he wouldn't be tolerating that sewer discussion between you and JTR, and the Rolex affair with me...

10 minutes ago, Vic Vomidog said:

Let's start up a thread on those CAVEATS!

Already been done, vomit dog, they're old hat. Besides, you have a reputation of -2, you don't qualify to make any suggestions in this orchestra

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

Sounds like a shibboleth. Closet apostates would likely let their yes mean no.

Yes, reminds me a little of when some elders in the past (I don’t know if they still do it) would ask a “dubious” brother a similar question, as if the answer solved all of the other problems. I don’t think this was necessarily Bruce’s intent, but it’s nice to see, after all the misunderstandings have been cleared, all at the party are mates again!

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Yes, of course I'll go along with that. When I bought my ticket from Holy Bus Lines, it was their photos I saw on the terminal wall. That was never hidden from me.

I also know that they may hit a pothole or three, for the weather is abysmal and the road is uncharted.  Moreover, they do not require me to sit up straight at all times - they allow me to stretch, talk to my neighbor, and use the bathroom.

I'd be surprised if the date goes. It's been around forever and it was reaffirmed at the Regional. The herd is running another way at present, but we all know about running with the herd. Perceptions can change.

Still, if it goes, it goes. It's not why I'm here. Nobody else can explain why God permits suffering. Nobody else can explain what happens to the dead, why we die at all, and what hope for those who have. Nobody else can explain why human governments do nothing but foul the nest, so that I am not stuck with the pathetic hope that the next leader, this time for sure, will fix things. Nobody else preaches the good news of the kingdom, nor unifies those responding. Nobody else would have kept me safe from the new morality.  Perhaps my marriage would not be intact, for few teach the Bible's message of yielding to the other person. The Bible would be an unassembled jigsaw puzzle in my closet were it not for the GB spearheading the work others feel free to criticize but do not offer to do. I owe them loyalty. I will pay it.

If understandings change, you do damage control, hope for the best, and pray for Jehovah's continued goodness.  It has been that way ever since Jesus spoke about 'drinking his blood.' 

You can't change people, Bruce. They'll be what they'll be. To some extent, the more one carries on, the more fuel is added to the fire. The less fuel offered, the quicker it goes out.

Well I wasn't going to go into a detailed explanation right here, because I was hoping for a new thread, but since you've already carried on, all I have to say is; I go along pretty much the same lines as you.  I like to go by not what they say, so much, but by the testimony and overall history and reputation of what has been achieved while these men have been in office as the FDS, (regardless of whether some believe that or not). Although inevitable blunders and embarrassments have been apparent, on the WHOLE, because of evidence, I believe the organization of Jehovah’s witnesses is definitely keeping itself morally and spiritually clean, seems to have Jehovah’s backing, and last but not least  we owe this organization (with the GB at the helm) our thanks, because without them we might still be believing that we will burn in hell, that God has three heads and no name, and that, if we are lucky, we will float off  someplace to play the harp for all eternity, after dying of lung cancer or some complication due to a dubious life style....I am sure I could think of many more but this will suffice for now...actually True Tom has already mentioned most.

7 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I left the picture resolution at 1600 so you can download it for a better look.

You crack me up!

P.S. Warning totally off topic:

7 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

What evidence do you have to counter my conclusion, Anna?

That's just it! Sometimes there is no absolute proof possible (either way) because of our human limitations. I mean I could call Br. Herd out on it personally, but he could lie. However, logic tells me there is quite a number of other possibilities which are much more likely (and which have already been discussed on an appropriate thread). Actually my statement really should have included the question "was 20K of the society's money spent on Br. Herd's watch?" That's the real issue. So, my motto is, if it doesn't sound right, it probably isn't. And spending 20K of the society's money on a watch does not sound right. And so I will go with that until somebody arranges a break-in to Br. Herds closet, retrieves said watch, and after having it duly analyzed by an expert, breaks into Br. Herds room while he is sleeping, binds him hand and foot and interrogates him under a bright light with the threat of (whatever is most effective) if he doesn't tell the truth. Of course that someone would have to be you, because how can you trust somebody else to be saying the truth about the truth?

I wonder along the lines of Eoin, could there be an illustration in there somewhere?

2 hours ago, bruceq said:

Poll Question:

"Does the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses have the right and authority to interpret to us any given Bible teaching? Yes/No.

No! I mean no, you are never going to get only a yes/no answer from me, and I doubt from anyone else either because it's not that simple if they're honest, because a yes or no answer will only be opinion again, and we all have one right?Therefor I agree with Eoin, a new topic would be appropriate.

13 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Please quote ANYTHING I have ever stated that is NOT TRUE.  

PICK ONE ... and challenge me.

Samuel Herd's supposed $20K Rolex. (sorry Librarian, off topic)

15 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

In view of the latest writing about types/anti-types, ('We're done') I wonder if there will be spillover as to how we view Revelation, which fairly begs for the application of anti-types

We are due for a new Revelation book. I hope it's in my lifetime as it should be pretty interesting!

On 7/4/2017 at 10:08 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

There is nothing worse than a brother or sister who rattles on and on

We've had a few of those in the past, no doubt being responsible for the  birth of the 30 seconds or less "policy"

2 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

He's not tripping ME up with his flattering speech, let me tell you that.

5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I actually do not recall pointing it out. If I did, then it is 'silly me,'

Actually I think it's me that pointed it out....so silly me

11 hours ago, bruceq said:

  JTR,  insider and some others on this blog have repeatedly  quoted from apostate books {Ray Franz} and visited and pasted from apostate sites {you can do a search right on this blog for proof}. You wish to associate with apostates since you have read and promote their teachings by QUOTING from them, that IS apostasy and makes one in fact an APOSTATE. {wt 86 3/15}.

 "and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves". Acts 20:30.

"Now I urge you, brothers, to keep your eye on those who create divisions and causes for stumbling contrary to the teaching that you have learned, and avoid them.+ ¹⁸  For men of that sort are slaves, not of our Lord Christ, but of their own appetites,* and by smooth talk and flattering speech they seduce the hearts of unsuspecting ones".  Rom 16:17,18. Titus 3:10,11.

    You both have stated in the past that you still go to the meetings and thus pretend to be a brother yet you find you can reveal your true self by hiding your identity in a forum. You of course would say that you love the truth, the brothers and even have a clean conscience. The Bible says apostates would do the same. {Read entire book of Jude}.  Why even Satan had concern for Jesus and quoted Scripture to him as well. That did not prove his LOYALTY  to Jehovah or those taking the lead. But true loyal Christians would not read apostate books and teachings and you both have definitely not hidden the fact that you have read and promoted the teachings of Ray Franz in this very thread! .

   Because of listening to the Devil and not rejecting his lies, the first human pair apostatized. So, then, should we listen to apostates, read their literature, or examine their Web sites on the Internet? If we love God and the truth, we will not do so. We should not allow apostates into our homes {via the Internet} or even greet them, for such actions would make us ‘sharers in their wicked works.’ (2 John 9-11) May we never succumb to the Devil’s wiles by abandoning the Christian “path of truth” to follow false teachers who seek to “introduce ruinous ideologies” and try to ‘exploit us with well-turned phrases.’—2 Peter 2:1-3, Byington. {See also W06 1/15} 

Therefore you as well as insider and your followers are not approved to give any kind of interpretation or teaching of any kind at all on any subject because by your actions against Jehovah you have confessed to be promoting apostate teachings  : "They publicly declare that they know God, but they disown him by their works,  because they are detestable and disobedient and NOT APPROVED FOR GOOD WORK OF ANY SORT."  Titus 1:16.

  So "anything" they now post is now considered as false teaching by your own confession of promoting apostate ideas of Ray Franz and other apostate websites.

  If you believe Jesus did not become King in 1914 or unrepentant ones should not be disfellowshipped then start your own religion, I am sure the 30,000 other apostate "Christian" religions who agree with you will welcome you with open arms as some do here as well.

"Promoting" the apostate teachings of Christendom against the teaching on 1914  does not make one a loyal Witness of Jehovah, it IS apostasy !!!

Why should we get so upset and cry “Apostate!", over a date?

You are just attacking the person, not presenting a reasonable and valid counter argument. A few others don’t agree with everything JWInsider says on here, however they are able to present a respectful reply, keeping to the topic, without ad hominem attacks and insults. Perhaps we are making a mistake holding onto 1914 as if it was some precious oracle that under no circumstances could ever change. We tend to get frustrated with Trinitarians and criticize them for believing in the trinity because  that word is not even in the Bible, but neither is 1914. In the grand scheme of things Jesus became King and is King, and as such he will bring about what sincere Christians pray for, and what we as Jehovah’s Witnesses preach to all people. There is no doubt that 1914 and the generation teaching keep us on our toes spiritually, whereas on the contrary, Christendom is sleeping. Just yesterday the brother who gave us a local needs part reminded us of how close the end is. The convention is about how close the end is. We’ve been saying how lose the end is since Russel’s days. The common thread is, that ALL would like to see the end come in THEIR life time. Russel hoped it would come in 1914, Rutherford hoped it would come in 1925, Franz and Knorr hoped in 1975, then after that there were no more dates, but the former generation teaching as taught by the old school GB of the 80’s suggested within the end of the 20th Century, and now, with the latest formation of the GB, and the refined teaching of the overlapping generation, within the next 35 years, in which case the two youngest members of the GB could still be alive to see it. I personally do not have a problem with that. There is absolutely nothing wrong with anticipating and wishing the end would come in one’s life time. There is nothing unscriptural about it. In fact the opposite, it has scriptural backing as we know. And it WILL come in somebody’s life time. But to staunchly insist on something despite obvious evidence to the contrary is crazy. This is why we have adjusted our understanding on so many things! We do not staunchly insist on something that just doesn’t seem right (although sometimes it takes a while). However, there are some individuals, even on this forum, who insist on believing something even when it makes no scriptural sense and even insist we must be loyal to an idea even if it is bad!

IF the system goes on for another 50 or so years, I very much doubt 1914 will remain. It will be adjusted somehow, it will have to be, because elapsed time will become the dictator for a new understanding  just like time made necessary the creation of the overlapping generation. And who knows, perhaps JWInsider’s scriptural interpretation will be adopted, or some other interpretation. It would not be the first time. On the other hand, if the end comes before that, then obviously there will be no need to even think about 1914. So either way, it doesn’t make much difference in the grand scheme of things. Just think, when we are all (hopefully) sitting at dinner in the new world, and someone mentions 1914, or 1975, or the overlapping generation or any other chronological theory,  we will probably just smile and think “those were the days, when we were still in nappies (diapers), and we just did the best we could”. I don’t think anybody is going to be saying “see, you were wrong”! either way.

As regards the scriptures you quoted about apostates, Acts 20:30, Rom 16:17,18. Titus 3:10,11. Do not apply to anyone on here, really.  I mean JTR, flattering speech? Are you kidding? And I don’t think JWInsider is interested in drawing disciples after himself.

And as for this one:  "They publicly declare that they know God, but they disown him by their works, because they are detestable and disobedient and NOT APPROVED FOR GOOD WORK OF ANY SORT."  Titus 1:16.Well, that’s a bit judgemental isn’t it? Do you know their works? I mean respectfully discussing alternative scriptural ideas of ambiguous scriptures (not core teachings!) means that those are bad works?  Are you saying that those who discuss these things are automatically detestable and disobedient and unapproved for good work of any sort? I discuss these things quite often with my step dad. He is an elder.

As for Ray Franz’s book, I have heard it is in the Bethel locked library, or used to be (can someone verify this?) In any case, his book has led many away from Jehovah and the organization. Many of them have become atheists. I don’t think Ray has come up with any new teachings, he merely related what he heard and saw when he was privy to what goes on behind closed doors on Wednesdays (and other days).  Of course some of it was intentionally coloured, (after all he was upset that he got the boot)  and a lot of it was his opinion and/or interpretation of what was going on. But he did succeed in demystifying the GB, and unfortunately for some, this spelled the end of their trust in them and the organization and with it Jehovah. Why? No doubt because these people were basing their faith on dates and men.  Nowadays, the GB are "demystifying" themselves for us. Increasingly, WT articles, books and assembly items remind us of their imperfection, remind us that they are also the domestics, and remind us that they need our prayers and that in the end each man and woman will stand for themselves in front of Jehovah....

7 hours ago, Queen Esther said:

Its here my post about a  FIRE - TORNADO....  and not about Caleb and Sophia !  Thats another theme under another post, ok?  Thank you very much 

( again,  in Germany we also using Caleb and Sofia, NOT Philipp...)  thats it ! 

Greetings from Germany  

But we got nothing to say about a fire tornado 

2 hours ago, Gnosis Pithos said:

To the LIBRARIAN

I FIND THIS COMMENT HIGHLY OFFENSIVE FROM THIS PERSON "JAMES THOMAS ROOK JR." A DEROGATORY REMARK TO THE DISABLED AND HAS NO PART OF THE CHRISTIAN CONGREGATION. I EQUALLY FIND OFFENSIVE THAT JWinsider AGREES WITH THE ASSESMENT BY PLACING A "LIKE" ON SUCH An OUTRAGEOUS COMMENT.

You must be new here. Most things JTR says has to be taken with a pinch of salt, and definitely not personally. And this is how those who reacted probably took it too, just JTR black humour. 

16 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I hear it's only in Germany that he got a name change.

In the Czech Republic he is called Kuba and Sofia is Lucka. Just very common names.

7 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

. The trouble is, will any of them be 30 seconds or less?

I cannot ever imagine ANY of your comments lasting 30 seconds or less

I kind of feel sorry for Ezekiel. Especially when he had to lie on his side for 430 days, eating nothing but bread and water. I think I wouldn't want to have anything to do with Israel after that! But joking aside, I was wondering how that actually went on in practice, and how his wife (did he have one?) felt about it. I mean it would be physically impossible (unless you're dead) and detrimental to health to lie on your side for that long without taking long breaks, (I mean imagine the "bed" sores and clogged up arteries) so I wonder if he had to lie down like that for say an hour each day. That would be quite doable, just take a nap. I haven't found anything in our publications regarding that yet.

31 minutes ago, Gnosis Pithos said:

Therefore, political correctness as subscribed would be an incorrect observation, since it would speak more of those without understanding than what the governing body was attempting to convey.

You sure sound like Allen Smith, he suggested something similar. However, no matter how you wish to turn it, the responsibility rested with the GB, who themselves admitted that the way they conveyed the idea became more a probability rather than a possibility at convention talks. Some still have tapes, or remember these talks where GB members spoke about 1975 as a probability.  Not only that, but as others on this forum have pointed out, WT publications assured its readers that we would not see the end of the 20th century before Armaggedon came. That is a fact because you can check these publications yourself.

8 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

"You know laddie, your Armageddon came the day you heard the good news, because what you do with it will make an everlasting difference to your future!".

Beautiful and spot on reasoning. Thanks for sharing. He sounds like a lovely brother, will have to go and read his story!

Reminds me a little of another quote, by an equally astute and wise brother, which I have quoted before " Plan ahead as if Armageddon won't come in your lifetime, but live your life as if it will come tomorrow"

1 minute ago, TrueTomHarley said:

"How many times do I have to tell that @Annato not put her books in the right category?" fumes @The Librarian "She should start another topic, as I have told her again and again till I am blue in the face." 

"She is getting to be like that bad @TrueTomHarley. Lord, I think he just throws in off-topic remarks to aggravate me! Here is a book he replaced upside down! Here is one dog=eared! THIS one he just left lying on the table! And, ARRRGGGHHHH, did he WRITE in this one?!"

"When I see @Anna again, I will tell her to start a new topic on the new subject! @TrueTomHarleywill probably join her, UNLESS he sees that it is actually in the right place, and refuses just to annoy me. Nice clean, straight rows - that's all I ask. Is it too much to do for an old lady?"

 

Actually, it did cross my mind that I should have added a clause with "sorry, a little off topic". So, does someone want to start a topic on that? I thought I pretty much covered it (said with a humble tone). Although of course someone else might have a different understanding to me.