Anna

(Revelation 17:8, NWT 1984)  The wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss, and it is to go off into destruction. And when they see how the wild beast was, but is not, and yet will be present, those who dwell on the earth will wonder admiringly, but their names have not been written upon the scroll of life from the founding of the world.
The NWT says above that some would "wonder admiringly" about this beast. The Watchtower in 1919 came out with an article that appears to be a commentary on that same phrase the Federal Council of Churches had used, but they also managed to use words that showed they "wondered admiringly" calling the ideals of this League both wonderful and admirable. But the Watchtower article also compared the League's ideals to show that they were essentially the same as the ideals of God's kingdom, and was even suggesting that this League might be involved in the initiation of the outworking of God's kingdom on earth. Just as the Federation of Churches had done, however, the Watchtower was not saying it was the same as God's kingdom, only that it was a "political" expression of those goals. Just like many in the Federation of Churches, it was realized that it would take more than political goals to actually achieve the full outworking of God's kingdom.
Here are some snippets from the first, last and a middle paragraph of a short article in the Watch Tower,  February 15, 1919,  p.51, with a more complete text of the article below:

 

 
We cannot but admire the high principles embodied in the proposed League of Nations, formulated undoubtedly by those who have no knowledge of the great plan of God. This fact makes all the more wonderful the ideals which they express. For instance, it has been made plain by President Wilson and the advocates of his ideas that the proposed League of Nations is more than merely a league to enforce peace. They would not have us consider it to exclusively from the standpoint of politics or of military relations. It should be considered as fully from the economic and social points of view. The President’s idea seems to be that the League of Nations which he proposes would stand for world service rather than mere world regulation in the military sense, and that the very smallest of nations shall be participants in its every arrangement. In other words, his idea undoubtedly is that the league shall not be established merely for the purpose of promoting peace by threat or coercion; but that its purpose, when put into operation, will be to make all nations of earth one great family, working together for the common benefit in all the avenues of national life. Truly this is idealistic, and approximates in a small way that which God has foretold that he will bring about after this great time of trouble.
So the Watchtower claimed that the Peace Conference and the "virtual reality" of the League of Nations were not merely the evolution of human progress, but were were strides of Jehovah's divine providence. They were a part of Jehovah's day of preparation for the Messianic Kingdom. In a small way this idealistic League of Nations was a political expression of what God's Kingdom would complete on earth.
In fact, one point of the article is that the wonderful and admirable League of Nations is more than just a political expression of God's kingdom, but a social and economic expression of the ideals of God's kingdom on earth, too.

The letter that Rutherford wrote to Hitler around June 25, 1933 uses pretty much the same logic that the Watchtower had used for supporting the League of Nations. The idea is that the Bible Students stood for the same ethical goals as the Nazi government under Hitler, and that they were in full agreement with them. Hitler's goals were just a political expression of purely religious goals of the Bible Students. The letter says:
The conference of five thousand delegates also noted - as is expressed in the declaration - that the Bible Researchers of Germany are fighting for the very same high ethical goals and ideals which also the national government of the German Reich proclaimed respecting the relationship of humans to God, namely: honesty of the created being towards its creator.

The conference came to the conclusion that there are no contradictions when it comes to the relationship between the Bible Researchers of Germany to the national government of the German Reich. To the contrary, referring to the purely religious and unpolitical goals and efforts of the Bible Researchers, it can be said that these are in full agreement with the identical goals of the national government of the German Reich.
Of course, Hitler and his government had done very little by that point in 1933 to show how they would go about executing those "same ethical goals." But it was risky for Rutherford to claim they were identical. It's like giving Obama a Nobel Peace Prize just before he expands the current wars and takes the United States into some new ones.

This claim is about the talk by Knorr in Sept 1942 and the booklet by the same name "Peace - Can It Last?"
Knorr, didn't anticipate it. He knew about the formation of the United Nations because it had already been announced for the past 9 months before the talk. President Roosevelt himself had called it the "United Nations." Knorr even stated in the talk that the name "United Nations" had already been announced by a member of the President's cabinet. Listening to the talk, and reading the booklet, you can see therefore, that this was never a prediction, nor was it presented as a prediction.
It was not spun as a prediction until 1958 when Fred Franz wrote the book "Your Will Be Done On Earth" and this portion implying a prediction was requoted in the 2/1/1960 Watchtower. By July 15, 1960 the claim had become very explicit:
*** w60 7/15 p. 444 par. 19 Staying Awake with the “Faithful and Discreet Slave” ***
. In 1942 the “faithful and discreet slave” guided by Jehovah’s unerring spirit made known that the democracies would win World War II and that there would be a United Nations organization set up. Such wakefulness was concerning events that unerringly took place three years later. At the 1958 Divine Will International Assembly amazing advance information in connection with Daniel’s prophecy was given about events to occur in the immediate future. Such evidence of spiritual foresight is recorded for us in the book “Your Will Be Done on Earth.” Once again the “faithful and discreet slave” has been tipped off ahead of time for the guidance of all lovers of God. Surely one’s present security depends on his staying awake with the “faithful and discreet slave.”
The Watchtower had been predicting that the NON-democracies, the AXIS powers would win WWII, at least up until 9 months before the talk. But then Knorr had also repeated a prior idea that the war would be stopped by treaties with no real winners. Then by the time of the talk, the idea was that the Vatican would compromise but that the win by the Allies would not last long BECAUSE the cry of peace and security after the war would be the immediate end of peace due to Armageddon being triggered. (using 1 Thessallonians 5). Also, this "win" would be declared by the new TOTALITARIAN world order under the totalitarian armies of the UN. The Watchtower was interpreting this situation to support the idea that it would now only be a matter of a very short time for the Kingdom to take over, compared to the length of the war itself. The idea that Armageddon was only MONTHS away, instead of years, was a common theme for the remainder of the war.

Of course. Both @Anna and @Arauna do it all the time.
The thing that rankles about the other woman is that I have never seen such a massive collection of scripture put to no practical use whatsoever other than that of Absalom: ‘Yes, your matter is weighty and valid, but there is no one here from the king’s office who will hear you out—oh, if only I were king!’
Gender has nothing to do with it. It would be tiresome regardless of from where it came.

So true Anna.  It was good for me ..... but I would not advise anyone to visit these sites.... especially if they are not seasoned in reasoning about things.  Young people have too much responsibilities to have time to think.  Older people, in twilight of life, have the philosophical stage kick in... they think more and have more time.
I only visit this forum and find it takes too much of my time and tremendous strain on my eyes. 
I visited another site only once and a exceptionally nasty group used my picture to plaster lies about me all over internet and mocked me.  I discovered the woman who was behind this - and collected evidence to send to her work.... the hospital she was working at.....so her bosses knew what she was doing at work and at home. She was a nurse... but I just left it.... I knew it would go away if I did nothing. 
I am also starting to pick my subjects and avoid certain people who repetitiously just accuse. I am tired of dealing with repetition..... I like a good conversation where I can learn something new or can contribute. 
I like beautiful thoughts but I also like to keep the mind as sharp as I can - sometimes this includes the ugly realities of life.  I can go to the cumbaya groups and post pictures of myself on field service..... but I need more than this in a social interaction. This is why I tend to rather end up here.
 

For people who like to lick their wounds from time to time this is true. True forgiveness takes away all wounds and resentment. A scar is not painful unless you open it again.  It is merely a sign that you got a wound and now know how to avoid it in future so it will not happen again.
People should learn to get on with life. Not look back. Every day is an opportunity to grow into a new and better person.... 
When you rehash the past (if it comes up in the brain by accident) and think too much about it in an emotional way - the brain ends up rebuilding the bad memories and synapses.... In the brain it will tend to come up more... and when emotion is attached to memories one remembers it even better....... new synapses....
When bad thoughts come up...... do not think about them.... get on with making new beautiful memories. 

I'm so glad you mention this. I'm feeling guilty for having abandoned the 1914 topic for the child molestation topic, and now here, the Babylon topic. I'm being tossed about like waves, and totally distracted. By the time I get around to coming to the forum, 20 new comments have piled up on top of the one comment I really wanted to respond to, and mentally saved till later, and now, lo and behold, more stuff! Not only more comments in one topic but more new posts. Don't get me wrong, I would hate for things to get stagnant, but there is only so much time one has to peel back the layers of comments to get to the one you really wanted to reply to. I am still trying to get back to JWI on the 1914 topic! Pity we don't get paid for this....
@The Librarian I wonder, is there away where each individual member could flag comments of choice? And that way it would be easier to find and reply to at a later time?

There is one strictly ex-jw forum I visit periodically (it's been around for more than 12 years) to see what is new, since they always seem to have the latest news 😀. I pick and choose what I want to read, and I don't comment any more, I used to years ago....but now you could say I am a "seasoned non arguer", since I've read it all, and argued it all by now. They seem to be happy the way they are. I do understand a few of their gripes, but mainly their gripes all boil down to really wanting to do their own thing. When you remove all the "fluff" then that's what's left, just selfishness. It's all about them, and what they want to do, and they don't want anyone telling them, especially not God. Same old, same old. Most are atheist.....
I don't regret interacting with them in the past. You learn a lot, research stuff, and nothing shocks you anymore, which is good.  If someone leaves the "Truth" because of an ex-jw argument, then he wasn't convinced of the "Truth" in the first place, and deep down sought an excuse to leave. That's my opinion anyway....

Actually, from my experience the ex-jw groups just like to talk among themselves, and pat each other on the back that they've "escaped" the org., rehash old memories, and tell themselves how much better off they are now. They don't really like "JW intruders" stirring things up. They usually tell them to go away.

@admin ☝️

I will have to think about this one. Thanks for passing along the idea.

Are you for real?  I am starting to doubt if it is really worth wasting time to reason with you on this. You have made up your mind what GBs motives were and decided there are thousands upon thousands of "victims" strewn all over. .... the exaggeration and accusation has no limits.... 

Come on now John, I am beginning to think you are losing your understanding of the definition of worship....

Stop paying the rent then 😀

Come on now John, I am beginning to think you are losing your understanding of the definition of worship....

Stop paying the rent then 😀

I think you should sell give your home away, and go and live in a cardboard box under a bridge. 

I think you should sell give your home away, and go and live in a cardboard box under a bridge. 

You are really a control freak. They bought it for one purpose and years later sold it because it was no longer needed. You ascribe motives to them which you cannot prove.  You expect them to really sit on it when they can sell it?   Even if they sold it at a profit - they can build umpteen kingdom halls in africa for the money they got. That is called wise and discreet - not greediness or avarice.
When you feel like hammering something - everything looks like a nail.

Totally off topic here, but I guess everyone has got bored with the Montana case.....
Reading the comments to the Stanley theater article, there was a reply to one poster who had similar sentiments to "Witness" and "4jah2me".
I couldn't have said it better myself so I am taking the liberty to just copy and paste it here:
"When something is sacred that means that it is viewed as being holy, clean or pure, and should be. So what things are considered holy, or sacred, clean and pure? Well, anything that Jehovah views as such. This includes his name – Jehovah, Jesus and the ransom, God’s laws, our kingdom hope, the Bible, the marriage union and the family, Christian meetings/gatherings, the anointed still on earth are likened to a “holy temple”, physical and moral cleanliness, baptism, worship, responsibilities within the Congregation, God’s people including the anointed, prayer, our relationship with Jehovah, his holy spirit, our ministry, and yes, even our places of worship (not an exhaustive list, mind you).
Indeed, in Biblical times a place (and even days, objects, animals, produce, festivals, etc…) were made holy by the presence of Jehovah; for instance the account of the burning bush or the tabernacle courtyard, or even the camp of Israel was to be kept clean because “Jehovah your God is walking about within your camp” and “your camp must prove to be holy”. Now, was Jehovah actually there? No, of course not, but his holy spirit was. In the same way, places of worship, such as the Assembly hall can be considered sacred because of God’s spirit being upon the people and what it’s being used for.
As for idol worship, Witnesses do not worship any building. Witnesses do not pray to or through a building. Witnesses do not love buildings of worship above Jehovah. Do Witnesses love to have a place of worship? Of course but not in the sense of veneration! Loving a location in itself is not wrong (remember to be balanced) and we love having any place where pure worship is. Do Witnesses want to make sure that they give the best to Jehovah? Of course! We want to magnify and glorify our God with the very best we can, not for show, but for his name. So having a building that gives glory to God at all times is a precious thing. In fact, the temple Solomon built was dedicated to Jehovah, as are all Witness buildings used for worship or in connection with the outworking of God’s purpose. Israelite’s/Hebrews also built temples which brought glory to God and were places of pure worship. Though, places of worship don’t have to be as beautifully restored and detailed as Stanley is. They should, however, maintain a dignified and clean appearance no matter where they are.
The following are sober reminders for all in this time of the end,  – 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12; 2 Timothy 2:16-19,23-25; 4:1-5,7; 6:20; 2 Peter 2:1-3; 2 Corinthians 11:3; Matthew 24:5,11,24; 1 John 2:18,19"
Proof?
 

I'm so glad you mention this. I'm feeling guilty for having abandoned the 1914 topic for the child molestation topic, and now here, the Babylon topic. I'm being tossed about like waves, and totally distracted. By the time I get around to coming to the forum, 20 new comments have piled up on top of the one comment I really wanted to respond to, and mentally saved till later, and now, lo and behold, more stuff! Not only more comments in one topic but more new posts. Don't get me wrong, I would hate for things to get stagnant, but there is only so much time one has to peel back the layers of comments to get to the one you really wanted to reply to. I am still trying to get back to JWI on the 1914 topic! Pity we don't get paid for this....
@The Librarian I wonder, is there away where each individual member could flag comments of choice? And that way it would be easier to find and reply to at a later time?

I'm so glad you mention this. I'm feeling guilty for having abandoned the 1914 topic for the child molestation topic, and now here, the Babylon topic. I'm being tossed about like waves, and totally distracted. By the time I get around to coming to the forum, 20 new comments have piled up on top of the one comment I really wanted to respond to, and mentally saved till later, and now, lo and behold, more stuff! Not only more comments in one topic but more new posts. Don't get me wrong, I would hate for things to get stagnant, but there is only so much time one has to peel back the layers of comments to get to the one you really wanted to reply to. I am still trying to get back to JWI on the 1914 topic! Pity we don't get paid for this....
@The Librarian I wonder, is there away where each individual member could flag comments of choice? And that way it would be easier to find and reply to at a later time?

I find solace that Charlie Watts, the drummer for The Rolling Stones, is a pretty normal family guy who lays low when the others would carry on with women, partying and drugs.
Once upon a drunken time, Mick Jagger pounded on his hotel door at 2 AM, demanding to know: “Where’s my drummer?!” Charlie punched him in the nose. “Don’t you ever call me your drummer!” he said. “You’re my singer!”

No No No! I've got it! Now that you've posted this image, it's become crystal clear. It is the bite that Adam took out of the fruit, which caused everything to go bottoms up, and is symbolized quite clearly by NYC, aka the big apple!