Anna

You left?
 

Yes indeed. It's a bit like:
Caleb and Sophia - English Philipp und Sofia - Deutsch Lucas og Sofie - Dansk Kevin och Sofia - Svenska Jakob og Sofie - Norsk Priidu und Pauliina - Eesti Ignas ir Kotryna - Lietuviu Leevi ja Sofia - Suomi Stefcho and Lily - Bulgarski Marci és Zsófi - Magyar Kuba s Luckou - čeština 😊

Yes of course, Satan is in control of the world, and that perfectly explains the "mess", but by discussing these things we are not making ourselves a part of it are we? Not only that, but notice that my reason for my initial comment was because I have someone who is interested in the Bible, but who is actually involved in one sector of what we are discussing. The reason for me to "educate" myself, at least with what the various terminology means, is so that I can better understand what this person is talking about. If I have no idea, then how can I address anything they say properly? Besides, there is no harm in educating ourselves, no matter what it is. Being ignorant can make someone believe things are false to be true, or conversely, things that are true they may believe are false,  and that in turn can lead to bad decisions and as a consequence a host of other undesirable things. So I don't think anyone is trying to sidetrack or smokescreen. On the contrary, these kind of conversations help to establish facts. No one knows everything, so although you say you are uneducated, you probably know a host of things others don't. I wouldn't say I am educated, but I do have a thirst for knowledge, and I crave facts Of course a Christian's prime focus should be in gaining accurate knowledge about God and his purpose. That's a given.

No, you definitely don’t want to pretend, but have never been convinced of what you believed was the truth and later changed your perception of it, and adjusted it, in the light of more information? I think we have all done that. It seems like you naively think that truth will just pop up the first time, or that it will be miraculously revealed. On the contrary, it's hard work. The Bible says we have to search for it, because it’s a hidden treasure (Prov 2:5, 6). So finding the truth isn’t a sudden revelation, it’s a journey, and on the way we may stumble over rocks, have to climb hills and descend valleys, before we even know where to dig.  But like I said before, fundamental truths (God’s name, God’s personality, God’s purpose for mankind, the way God wants us to live etc.) are there; so that people seeking those truths are able to go to the “mountain of Jehovah”  Isaiah 2:2,3.

@JOHN BUTLER  I like this quote from JW Insider;  " I think the only way we can see past the human error and focus on the leadership of Jesus under the headship of Jehovah, is to avoid putting the human leadership on so high a pedestal in the first place".

@Arauna   we  have a topic started along similar lines HERE
Right now it's a little all over the place, but hopefully will get re-focused. Perhaps you could post your video there too?

Hello Anna, you are right. Some are so obsessed with the sins of the Governing Body that they twist every negative figure in the Bible and apply them on the Governing Boby. Some twist the scriptures about the man of sin, the wild beast, the false prophet in Revelation and falsely apply on the WT organization and on the GB, instead of correctly applying those scriptures on political worldy entities, of which some have not even yet shown up.
And I see from your post that you have educated yourself about how the world is run in the reality. 
I found a few years back this documentary done by a history teacher about how secret societies run the world and the wars in the world. And interesting that he came to the conclusion that they are the mystery woman Babylon the Great guilty of all the deaths. At 1:58:00 he starts to comment about that. And he points out that the secret societies the last 100 years have had New York as their capital city.
 

@JOHN BUTLER  I like this quote from JW Insider;  " I think the only way we can see past the human error and focus on the leadership of Jesus under the headship of Jehovah, is to avoid putting the human leadership on so high a pedestal in the first place".

Interesting article and video.....
On 11 December most countries will sign the UN Compact in Morocco.  It is part of the "Agenda 21" plan for the 21 st century  started in 1992.  Read up about Agenda 21, agenda 2030 and about this Compact for Migration which will criminalize anyone saying anything against the UN plan.  Those countries who signed are obliged to assist migrants financially and basically all people have a right to migrate....(no more borders).   About 20 nations are now fighting  it and will be forced by fines for not complying.  It is part of the UN plan for one world government...  Is this real? Or a conspiracy.... ? Watch this little video and give comments of the implications.    I have the original documents and on this Youtube link you can also download the UN document "agenda 21".   NGOs have already been receiving funds to implement it for the past 20 years and both republican and democratic governments has been changing laws to implement is..... It has been going on  under our noses and the general public does not know.  My interest in this is the fulfillment of prophecy which indicates the UN or coalition of governments to rule for short period of time before Armageddon.  There are huge implications to this .... but first watch this little video to begin the discussion....   here is the link.....
 
 

Anna and Outta Here have already said it and pointed to material that says it, and I'm sure you have heard the argument before while associating with Witnesses. But here it is again: there is a logical problem with your argument. God's name in Hebrew is YHWH, true, but this doesn't automatically mean that Yahweh is the correct pronunciation. Why not Yehowah? In fact, there are languages today where the most common pronunciation of the Divine Name is exactly that: Yehowah.
Admittedly this was influenced from English, and a major contributor to the popularization of that form of the name was a Catholic monk. But as Anna said, there are other names where we use a modern English or other modern-language equivalent. The name for Jeremiah was YRMYH. Do you argue,  why not Yarmayah? It's possible (though highly unlikely) that this was how it was pronounced. But some modern languages will pronounce it Yeremiah, even in the WTS publications in those languages. The divine name is a special case and perhaps this means we should give it special scholarly treatment in selecting the most likely pronunciation. However, even here, if it turned out to be Yahweh, that form in English would be Jahveh. We don't say Yeshuah, we say Jesus (because that form of the name Joshua had already been "hellenized" to Yesous.) Sometimes the change is even more significant, like Yakob to James or even Santiago.
To me, these arguments sound a bit like straining the gnat, but not very consistently.

That has happened, but it's not what I said. There was a time when the focus was always on Russell and how great he was as one of the major historical contributors to the "faithful and discreet slave." We had a doctrine that claimed that there were always members of this faithful and discreet slave alive at any given time on the earth since the Christian congregation was formed just after Pentecost of 33 CE. 
In fact, there was a research assignment for history buffs that was supposed to become a part of the "Proclaimers" book, that was supposed to go into a lot more detail about some of the groups that our publications had identified in the past, who were typically persecuted for not believing in the Trinity (Arians, for example), and those who stood up against the powerful religious leaders of their time and tried to publish truths for wider distribution to everyone. The GB members behind this effort were so disappointed in the results that they dropped the idea from the "Proclaimers" book, and began to drop the teaching altogether, so that we rarely spoke any more about about Arius, Wycliffe, Tyndale, the Waldenses, etc. 
The focus of that book became a chance to show how Russell stood out among those he had learned from: Grew, Stetson, Brown, Miller, Paton, Seiss, Storrs, Barbour, etc. But even this effort began to show that Russell was rather eclectic, and was just as apt to pick up a wrong idea as a good idea and run with it. But the biggest "new" issue that was being learned about Russell was that so many of the early Bible Students who followed Russell were actually in an end-times chronoloy cult. This was not Russell's fault, but he had the kind of convincing personality that drew people to him. Rutherford was a Russellite cult member too for many years. But it was in 1919 that Rutherford realized this. If Rutherford had not used shrewd (and technically illegal) means to grasp the Watchtower organization from the majority of the Russellite leadership that Russell had chosen, then the Watchtower would probably still be just another Russellite "cult."
The real cut-off from Russell began in 1919, and it took another decade for Rutherford to completely figure out how to do that. And this is one of the reasons that the Watchtower today, since 2012, teaches that the true "faithful and discreet slave" no longer includes Russell, even though for many years up until 1919, Russell was had been considered to be the ONLY member of the "faithful and discreet slave."
I'm not saying that the current Governing Body necessarily did the right thing in identifying only themselves as the current FDS, but at least, since 2012, they have taken measures to remove much of the emphasis on Russell himself, by removing him from any identification with the  "faithful and discreet slave."

I have never heard this expression "human foundation stones of the JW. org, but I know what you mean. However, I see that you still have some trust in the organization. You must have at least had some to be able to say that it is now less.
But this wasn't the point. I think people make too much of the humans who have been used and involved in the history of the Org. It is what it is, and for me the organization represents the most respectable attempt in recent history to present an international teaching ministry, making Bible teaching available for free to nearly the entire world. It's a teaching that is consistent, gives hope, encourages high morality, and presents a Christianity that has excellent advantages over other forms. You may disagree over some of the basic fundamental teachings of JWs, I happen to agree with the basics. I disagree with what I consider a lot of less significant issues, and for most of these disagreements, it means almost nothing in the scheme of things. There are a few moderately important issues that I disagree with, but I think these are also already on the way out. (I notice that, as an organization, we are almost able to laugh at ourselves with respect to some of these past errors and false doctrines. -- And, yes, one of the things I disagree with is our general inability to use the term "false doctrine" to refer to a past teaching that turned out to be false.)
I know your biggest issue, you said, was the child abuse issue, and I agree that it is big. Much bigger than most Witnesses realize. But as many have said, we don't produce pedophiles and child molesters. We may have needed big improvements in our processes, just as so many other institutions have needed. We should all push for more improvements even if this means exposing the seriousness of injustice to children, and exposing these issues to the light. But you sometimes give the impression that anytime a serious sin is seen in this organization that it means God has removed his blessing from all of us, especially the leadership. I don't expect so much out of the leadership as others, and from what I know, they are trying to do a good job going forward, and have a weakness in the area of admitting mistakes of the past. I think the only way we can see past the human error and focus on the leadership of Jesus under the headship of Jehovah, is to avoid putting the human leadership on so high a pedestal in the first place.
If we can see the human leadership as just as sinful and imperfect as the rest of us, this is a GOOD thing, in my opinion. And there are plenty of good reasons to make note of their imperfections and sinfulness. It's not to find fault and make you trust them less; it's to make us trust the leadership of Jesus and Jehovah, all the more.

We don't appear to be overly dogmatic about this anyway. Yet another non-issue.

Yes of course, Satan is in control of the world, and that perfectly explains the "mess", but by discussing these things we are not making ourselves a part of it are we? Not only that, but notice that my reason for my initial comment was because I have someone who is interested in the Bible, but who is actually involved in one sector of what we are discussing. The reason for me to "educate" myself, at least with what the various terminology means, is so that I can better understand what this person is talking about. If I have no idea, then how can I address anything they say properly? Besides, there is no harm in educating ourselves, no matter what it is. Being ignorant can make someone believe things are false to be true, or conversely, things that are true they may believe are false,  and that in turn can lead to bad decisions and as a consequence a host of other undesirable things. So I don't think anyone is trying to sidetrack or smokescreen. On the contrary, these kind of conversations help to establish facts. No one knows everything, so although you say you are uneducated, you probably know a host of things others don't. I wouldn't say I am educated, but I do have a thirst for knowledge, and I crave facts Of course a Christian's prime focus should be in gaining accurate knowledge about God and his purpose. That's a given.

No, you definitely don’t want to pretend, but have never been convinced of what you believed was the truth and later changed your perception of it, and adjusted it, in the light of more information? I think we have all done that. It seems like you naively think that truth will just pop up the first time, or that it will be miraculously revealed. On the contrary, it's hard work. The Bible says we have to search for it, because it’s a hidden treasure (Prov 2:5, 6). So finding the truth isn’t a sudden revelation, it’s a journey, and on the way we may stumble over rocks, have to climb hills and descend valleys, before we even know where to dig.  But like I said before, fundamental truths (God’s name, God’s personality, God’s purpose for mankind, the way God wants us to live etc.) are there; so that people seeking those truths are able to go to the “mountain of Jehovah”  Isaiah 2:2,3.

I do not believe Jehovah would allow some human/humans to silence his anointed, especially as you say, the anointed would be of paramount importance in disclosing the truth about Him in the “last days”. I am satisfied that these fundamental truths have been disclosed. I do not find them all together in one place anywhere among Christendom’s religions and sects, I don’t find them in Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism or any other religion but Jehovah’s Witnesses.
To your other point, saying that we cannot be sure how God’s name was pronounced, and why not call him Yahweh etc. well sure I would call him Yahweh but I speak English, and in English it is Jehovah. Many names are written and pronounced quite differently depending on what language you speak. So concerns and arguments about the exact pronunciation of God’s name are moot and kind of pointless really.

It's definitely a side-track. But it's an interesting one to some people. Also, I see that this topic was in a religiously neutral part of the forum, and an admin has now  moved it into the "Jehovah's Witnesses Public Club."
To me, this will make it interesting because of how politically-influenced our own prophetic explanations have been over the years. Russell himself wrote to the President of the United States to tell him that Filipinos were lazy and that we (USA) should give a large portion of the Philippines to Japan. Rutherford was constantly involved in the political trends of his day. In fact, Rutherford, wrote to Hitler to tell him that he thought that what Hitler was "preaching" in the early 1930's was kind of like a political expression of what the kingdom of God stood for, and therefore, Rutherford expressed appreciation for what Hitler was saying. This only lasted a short time because Hitler didn't buy it. In fact, Rutherford for a short time also stated that the League of Nations was like a political expression of the Kingdom of God on earth. That only lasted a few months. But he was famous for taking sides between capitalists and labor, and just like Russell, predicted that the chaos of Armageddon would be triggered by a clash between the interests of Capitalism and Labor's interest in social justice. This developed into the idea of the West (Capitalists) being the key representatives in the King of the South, and the socialist/communist powers being the key representatives of the King of the North.
Watching this idea develop between the old Daniel book (Your Will be Done on Earth) and the Babylon book and the new Ezekiel book is EXTREMELY interesting to me.

Yes of course, Satan is in control of the world, and that perfectly explains the "mess", but by discussing these things we are not making ourselves a part of it are we? Not only that, but notice that my reason for my initial comment was because I have someone who is interested in the Bible, but who is actually involved in one sector of what we are discussing. The reason for me to "educate" myself, at least with what the various terminology means, is so that I can better understand what this person is talking about. If I have no idea, then how can I address anything they say properly? Besides, there is no harm in educating ourselves, no matter what it is. Being ignorant can make someone believe things are false to be true, or conversely, things that are true they may believe are false,  and that in turn can lead to bad decisions and as a consequence a host of other undesirable things. So I don't think anyone is trying to sidetrack or smokescreen. On the contrary, these kind of conversations help to establish facts. No one knows everything, so although you say you are uneducated, you probably know a host of things others don't. I wouldn't say I am educated, but I do have a thirst for knowledge, and I crave facts Of course a Christian's prime focus should be in gaining accurate knowledge about God and his purpose. That's a given.

The following is just my opinion, of course:
Religious fervor begins with a religious group believing that they know something important that others do not know. For some this has been "knowledge of the times and seasons" i.e., the dates or time range or signs that show how close we are to the end of this system. For some the differences between their religion and others will seem small, but to the religion that believes it has more important knowledge, these differences will seem huge.
The same thing is true of political views, some people see differences in left and right as no big deal, but others are convinced that they know something important about the correctness of their own view and the incorrectness of the other person's view. These ones will display political fervor in the same way that religions can show religious fervor.
In other words, politics is just like religion (and religion is just like politics).
Most of politics, just like most religion, is based on misinformation, or the beliefs of parents, or the general traditions and propaganda of our national group, or the beliefs of our most outspoken and convincing friends.
I've seen a curious uniformity in the way many JWs would position themselves if they had to identify which of their beliefs align more with the US "left" and the US "right." The US is aligned generally with the "International West" (UK, France, Germany, Australia) and sometimes includes Japan, Israel, Saudi Arabia and other nations when interests align.
This might make an interesting topic of study about JWs, assuming that the person behind the study could be trusted to know the true differences between "left" and "right." Also, they'd have to understand the limitations of political knowledge that all Witnesses receive only through specific target-driven sources. Many JWs would still think of "FoxNews" as right, MSNBC as left, and CNN/ABC/CBS/NYTimes as generally neutral. In fact all these sources have their own interests which are often hyper-partisan, but often go far beyond "left" and "right." It would surprise most Witnesses, and much of the world, to see just how many interests of the "left" and "right"overlap in the very areas where most see them as different.

Yes of course, Satan is in control of the world, and that perfectly explains the "mess", but by discussing these things we are not making ourselves a part of it are we? Not only that, but notice that my reason for my initial comment was because I have someone who is interested in the Bible, but who is actually involved in one sector of what we are discussing. The reason for me to "educate" myself, at least with what the various terminology means, is so that I can better understand what this person is talking about. If I have no idea, then how can I address anything they say properly? Besides, there is no harm in educating ourselves, no matter what it is. Being ignorant can make someone believe things are false to be true, or conversely, things that are true they may believe are false,  and that in turn can lead to bad decisions and as a consequence a host of other undesirable things. So I don't think anyone is trying to sidetrack or smokescreen. On the contrary, these kind of conversations help to establish facts. No one knows everything, so although you say you are uneducated, you probably know a host of things others don't. I wouldn't say I am educated, but I do have a thirst for knowledge, and I crave facts Of course a Christian's prime focus should be in gaining accurate knowledge about God and his purpose. That's a given.

I don't mind you keeping this topic, although I do believe I wasn't off topic since it discussed the 1percenters, and they are supposed to be the "Globalists" and those behind the "deep state" . There is only so much you can discuss about; "How much money you need to be part of the 1% worldwide" lol. Most of those 1 percenters can print money, legally, because they own banks, so they dictate the amount you need, to be the 1%. And who knows what that amount is? It's not even "Pretty Woman" caliber, but more like owning a country. But I understand it became off topic since it started involving JW ideology. So how about changing the title to something like: An interesting take on politics, conspiracies, and prophecies

1. This topic is not by Anna
2. Whoever put the title of this topic here needs to know Anna never started exploring "deep state" after reading a question on the 1%. Anna started exploring this way before.
Here is a suggestion: 
1. Don't start a topic on my behalf unless you ask my permission
2. Get your facts right
Thank you.
 
 

I don't mind you keeping this topic, although I do believe I wasn't off topic since it discussed the 1percenters, and they are supposed to be the "Globalists" and those behind the "deep state" . There is only so much you can discuss about; "How much money you need to be part of the 1% worldwide" lol. Most of those 1 percenters can print money, legally, because they own banks, so they dictate the amount you need, to be the 1%. And who knows what that amount is? It's not even "Pretty Woman" caliber, but more like owning a country. But I understand it became off topic since it started involving JW ideology. So how about changing the title to something like: An interesting take on politics, conspiracies, and prophecies

I just noticed this topic here, and it's funny because I had recently been doing some research into things such as "deep state" etc. I am for the most part a complete political ignoramus. I mean the worst there could be. My husband had to explain to me what the difference between the right and left wing was. I thought it had something to do with birds. Just kidding, but almost. Politics has never interested me, probably because of my JW upbringing and because I have never really had the need to, until recently. I have met a very interesting person recently who is involved in a certain branch of expertise and they started hurling terms such as "the Globalists" "deep state" etc. at me. They are also very interested in what the Bible has to say. I realized than in order to carry on a fruitful conversation I will have to educate myself politically a little. So that at least I know what they are talking about. They mentioned they spoke with a JW many years ago who told them about Daniel's prophesy and the statue. They said that they can see all the things this person told them coming true. I cannot really say much more because, well, it can get a little dangerous. A colleague of theirs was recently found dead...
I do not believe conspiracy theories. I do not think the Rothschild family is the mastermind over all of earth's affairs, for example, but logic tells me that those with money, automatically have an insurmountable amount of power.
I like this quote: When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes… Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” – Napoleon Bonaparte 
Anyway, while I was researching I found out about the "Bilderberg Meetings" which some of you might be familiar with, but I knew nothing about. There are many conspiracy theories about the actual function of these "secret" meetings, which as I said I do not buy into, however, it is interesting to see how these meetings could in theory be a part of some kind of "deep state". It is also interesting to see the topics  discussed each year, and the list of those who are invited, and even more interesting seeing members of the clergy involved, although it is to be expected (this year; Pietro Parolin, Cardinal, and secretary of Vatican state). One conspiracy website mentions the "trinity of Globalist control" as being:  City of London Corporation – Financial power centre, established in 1067, District of Columbia – Military power centre, established in 1871, Vatican City – Religious power centre, sovereign in 1929. Kind of prophetic for us JWs wouldn't you say?
Here is the official website for the Bilderberg Meetings: https://www.bilderbergmeetings.org/
 
 

I see @TrueTomHarley is getting very bored so called on his alter egos to mix things up a bit. I don't like vomit dog though. Never have.