Anna

(Paul walks into a bar with four Centurions, hold up two fingers in a "V" shape, and says "Five Beers!".)

NAILS OR NAIL, HANDS OR WRISTS, AND OTHER SUCH SCRIPTURES. HOW DO CHRISTIANS KNOW WHAT IS TRUE ?
The ONLY reason such considerations are important is judging the credibility of those who claim to have "special insight" about such things, and who in doing so enhance their own authority and perception of their alleged wisdom.
other than that .... the IMPORTANT thing is that Christ did die for the forgiveness of our sins.
Nail or Nails, Hands or Wrists .... who gives a cat's coughed-up fur balls?  ..... the ONLY way to judge a religion is this:
                        "Is it in the long term best interests of Civilization?"
How THAT is judged is , Is it fair, honest, kind, and equitable ...peaceable, courageous, valiant and virtuous?  And noble.
.... and most important, Righteousness .... that is ... doing good because it is God's will to do good.
It is not important if Jesus was stapled to a cardboard shipping container.
.... not really.
 

Ah. Now I see I have said the same as what @Pudgyjust said, only with less color.

Come come. Add hypersensitivity to the list.
Jesus nailed through the hands or wrists? That’s your crisis of faith that causes you to patiently wait?
Who cares? If he was shot with a gun it wouldn’t change the meaning & results of his death, and that’s what you should focus on.
 

It is. You needlessly complicate it by being overly exacting, excessively unforgiving, and too enamored with your own righteousness.
“NAILS OR NAIL, HANDS OR WRISTS, AND OTHER SUCH SCRIPTURES. HOW DO CHRISTIANS KNOW WHAT IS TRUE ?”
They can’t. They need a True Anointed to explain everything. In the meantime, it’s important not to do anything except complain.
Whatever happened to “Exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door?” (Luke 13:24) He didn’t say wait for the doorman to ease your way in.
 

@JW Insiderthank you for all the references to quotes and photos of quotes. A lot of work there. I think you deserve to pour yourself a drink now!

The truth about Jesus' Resurrection... The Bible says that Jesus “was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.” (1 Peter 3:18)
Jesus was put to death, how? In the flesh.... here's one of several teachings of Jesus Christ. "I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever; and for a fact, the bread that I will give is My Flesh in behalf of the life of the world." (John 6:51) So, if for a fact, Jesus gave his flesh in behalf of the life of the world, then proclaiming that he took back the flesh he sacrificed would be wholly inaccurate.   "So from now on we know no man from a fleshly viewpoint. Even if we once knew Christ according to the flesh, we certainly no longer know him in that way." (2 Corinthians 5:16)   So how was Jesus Christ resurrected? So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit." (1 Corinthians 15:45) Spirit creatures/angels, can manifest in the flesh, even eating and drinking with those who entertain them. "Do not forget hospitality, for through it some unknowingly entertained angels." (Hebrews 13:2)   Since Jesus became a life-giving sprit, he manifested in various fleshly bodies and many times without the wounds. Consider the account of Mary Magdalene, a faithful follower of Jesus Christ who went to the tomb for the purpose of dressing his wounds. Notice the account, "After saying this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.  Jesus said to her: “Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you looking for?” She, thinking it was the gardener, said to him: “Sir, if you have carried him off, tell me where you have laid him, and I will take him away.”  Jesus said to her: “Mary!” On turning around, she said to him in Hebrew:“Rab·boʹni!” (which means “Teacher!”) - John 20:14-16     Two points for Consideration at John 20:14-16 Obviously Jesus wasn't resurrected in the same flesh that was sacrificed. No Wounds, otherwise Mary Magdalene would have noticed who this person was...   Account continues: "Moreover, some women from among us also astonished us, for they went early to the tomb and when they did not find his body, they came saying that they had also seen a supernatural sight of angels, who said he is alive." (Luke 24:22-23)   Then some of those who were with us went off to the tomb, and they found it just as the women had said, but they did not see him.”  So he (Jesus) said to them: “O senseless ones and slow of heart to believe all the things the prophets have spoken!  Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into his glory?”  And starting with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them things pertaining to himself in all the Scriptures.  Finally they got close to the village to which they were traveling, and he made as if to travel on farther.  But they urged him to remain, saying: “Stay with us, because it is almost evening and the day is nearly over.” With that he went in to stay with them. (Luke 24:24-30)  Again, they did not see him because Jesus manifested in a different body with no wounds.   They only recognized him from the things he said and did. "And as he was dining with them, he took the bread, blessed it, broke it, and began handing it to them. At that their eyes were fully opened and they recognized him; but he disappeared from them." (Luke 24:31-32)    "And they got up in that very hour and returned to Jerusalem, and they found the Eleven and those assembled together with them, who said: “For a fact the Lord was raised up, and he appeared to Simon!”  Then they related the events on the road and how he became known to them by the breaking of the bread." (Luke 23:33-35) We are not sure of how many Jesus appeared too but they were not of the Eleven Apostles, therefore it is possible to conclude that they were believers and may have been Lazarus and Simon the leper who was a Pharisee whom Jesus dined with just before his execution.  =========================================================================   Another account: "Then they remembered his words, and they returned from the tomb and reported all these things to the Eleven and to all the rest.  They were Mary Magʹda·lene, Jo·anʹna, and Mary the mother of James. Also, the rest of the women with them were telling these things to the apostles.  However, these sayings seemed like nonsense to them, and they would not believe the women." (Luke 24:8-11)    "But Thomas, one of the Twelve, who was called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came.  So the other disciples were telling him: “We have seen the Lord!” (John 20:24) Evidently, they all gave the same witness that Jesus appeared to them but in a different body without wounds. Notice Thomas did not ask to see Jesus' body, "But he said to them: “Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails and stick my finger into the print of the nails and stick my hand into his side, I will never believe it.” (John 20:25)   Well, eight days later his disciples were again indoors, and Thomas was with them. Jesus came, although the doors were locked, and he stood in their midst and said: “May you have peace.”  Next he said to Thomas: “Put your finger here, and see my hands, and take your hand and stick it into my side, and stop doubting but believe.” (John 20:26-27)    Notice the following verses exist for the reason he was manifesting in different fleshly bodies. "To be sure, Jesus also performed many other signs before the disciples, which are not written down in this scroll.  But these have been written down so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and because of believing, you may have life by means of his name." (John 20:30-31)  =========================================================================   Yet, another account: Jesus appears again in a different body without wounds again! "However, just as day was breaking, Jesus stood on the beach, but the disciples did not realize that it was Jesus.  Then Jesus said to them: “Children, you do not have anything to eat, do you?” They answered: “No!” (John 21:4-5)   He said to them: “Cast the net on the right side of the boat and you will find some.” So they cast it, but they were not able to haul it in because of the large number of fish. Then the disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter: “It is the Lord!” Now Simon Peter, on hearing that it was the Lord, put on his outer garment, for he was naked, and plunged into the sea." (John 21:6-7) Simon Peter plunging into the sea is 'an act of faith' my friends!   Jesus said to them: “Come, have your breakfast.” Not one of the disciples had the courage to ask him: “Who are you?” because they knew it was the Lord.  Jesus came and took the bread and gave it to them, and the same with the fish.  This was now the third time that Jesus appeared to the disciples after being raised up from the dead." (John 21:12-14) Accepting Jesus as the Christ can add a profound meaning for your Life.   Read more...

He asked all his followers to pray for it. 
Yes, of course, my bad. I should have been more specific; he had been faithful until death, and that is what qualified him to receive all authority as king. Just like when the anointed die faithful, when they are resurrected they receive the crown of life. 

He asked all his followers to pray for it. 
Yes, of course, my bad. I should have been more specific; he had been faithful until death, and that is what qualified him to receive all authority as king. Just like when the anointed die faithful, when they are resurrected they receive the crown of life. 

Doesn't make sense to me either, this is why I began wondering about how these various scriptures regarding Jesus' kingship could be explained as a whole. I got to thinking about the main purpose of God's kingdom, (as opposed to the other administrations) the one Jesus asked us to pray for, the one that would be the tool to reconcile all things to God, the one that was indirectly referred to in the garden of Eden (when Jehovah said Satan would be bruised in the head) as the solution for putting right what Adam made wrong.
There is no denying that the scriptures say that all things were subjected to Jesus as King when he returned to heaven. But for Jesus to ask his followers to pray for this particular kingdom, God's Kingdom, I think that would make no sense if it already existed since 33CE. True, we were asked to pray for his will to be done on earth as in heaven, so the kingdom could be said to have already been existing, just not exercising dominion over the earth yet, but to me it seems to fit better that it came into existence at the harvest time, since that was one of the purposes of God's Kingdom....to gather the things on the earth. Of course it fits our JW history very well, with the "flashes of truth" "rattling of the bones" etc. (And dare I say it, with WW1....1914)
Revelation also talks about the birth of the Kingdom (God's Kingdom). Something that occurred at a point in history, with Jesus becoming king of that kingdom. I don't see that Revelation has to necessarily be talking about it happening in the 1st century....
Yes I have heard that too. So there is another type of kingdom....
Lol. 
I am not sure if @JW Insideraddressed it, if not, I hope he does! 

Doesn't make sense to me either, this is why I began wondering about how these various scriptures regarding Jesus' kingship could be explained as a whole. I got to thinking about the main purpose of God's kingdom, (as opposed to the other administrations) the one Jesus asked us to pray for, the one that would be the tool to reconcile all things to God, the one that was indirectly referred to in the garden of Eden (when Jehovah said Satan would be bruised in the head) as the solution for putting right what Adam made wrong.
There is no denying that the scriptures say that all things were subjected to Jesus as King when he returned to heaven. But for Jesus to ask his followers to pray for this particular kingdom, God's Kingdom, I think that would make no sense if it already existed since 33CE. True, we were asked to pray for his will to be done on earth as in heaven, so the kingdom could be said to have already been existing, just not exercising dominion over the earth yet, but to me it seems to fit better that it came into existence at the harvest time, since that was one of the purposes of God's Kingdom....to gather the things on the earth. Of course it fits our JW history very well, with the "flashes of truth" "rattling of the bones" etc. (And dare I say it, with WW1....1914)
Revelation also talks about the birth of the Kingdom (God's Kingdom). Something that occurred at a point in history, with Jesus becoming king of that kingdom. I don't see that Revelation has to necessarily be talking about it happening in the 1st century....
Yes I have heard that too. So there is another type of kingdom....
Lol. 
I am not sure if @JW Insideraddressed it, if not, I hope he does! 

Did he ever.
I recall something was written about “the kingdom of the son of his love” into which believers were transferred into.
”He delivered us from the authority of the darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son of his love,” (Colossians 1:13)  
This was written about here, in 1978, (scroll to paragraph 9)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1978165?q=kingdom+of+the+son+of+his+love&p=par
but I don’t recall it has been discussed much since, maybe because I’ve never heard any brother other than @JW Insider postulate that the kingdom in all its fullness begins in 33CE. It makes no sense at all to me to think we have been in the last days for 1/3 of recorded history, yet there are plenty of verses that speak of Jesus reigning before what we now take as the ‘last days.’ It seemed hard to believe that Jehovah’s organization had never dealt with them. Now I see that they have, but not lately.
Does this ‘kingdom within a kingdom’ (like a Matryoshka doll!) account for these verses? Did JWI address that?
 

Oh yes, my apologies...   Thank you for your reply. I read it through three times to grasp it all.
Your comment makes a lot of sense, but I'm not convinced about 1914.
Thank you.
 

You did want to know what WT had to say about the topic. 
 
I see there have been quite a number of contributions since you asked this question, I have not read most of them yet as I just didn't have time, and I just now had a few moments to reply.
This is not just a reply to you but in general. So here goes.
The WT doesn't deny that Jesus was king after his resurrection, since he had proved faithful to the end. When he told the pharisees that the kingdom was in their midst, he was talking about himself as he was from the royal lineage of king David, psalms talks about the greater David. Jesus was also anointed at his baptism, but any of that, his anointing and his being king, could have been made obsolete had he been unfaithful. It is after his death that he became the deserved immortal king. Now, when it comes to him being enthroned in 1914, the WT is looking at it this way I think: It all has to do with the last days. Jesus said he would be with his disciples until the end. So WT understand that to mean that Jesus was their King, ruling over them, but not yet king over God's kingdom as they believe that God's Kingdom did not get established until 1914 (the last days). So really, one needs to figure out when the last days began. Did they begin in the 1st century or much later. JWI went over all this in a lot of detail somewhere.. There are scriptures which definitely indicate that Jesus was king when on earth and was given dominion over everything once back in heaven, as the Aid book says. How I am understanding this is; that Jesus being king while on earth and while in heaven is different from being king of God's kingdom. God's kingdom is a special administration for the purpose of governing the Christian congregation and to do all the things that this Kingdom is promising to do i.e. get rid of wickedness and restore paradise earth. Also, under this administration the dead will be brought back to life and God's will, will be done on earth as it is in heaven. This multiple king idea can be compared to a king being king over more than one country simultaneously.
For example Cyrus the great was King of Anshan, King of Persia, King of Media, King of Babylon, King of Sumer and Akkad.
So I think in a similar way, Jesus was king "of the Jews" while on earth, then King of heaven after his resurrection, and then in the last days when the kingdom called "God's kingdom" is established, he became the king of that kingdom, i.e the chief ruler and administrator of that government/kingdom. This is how I can reconcile all the different scripturest that talk about Jesus as king after his baptism while still on earth, then becoming king on returning to heaven, and then becoming king during the last days (1914).  Same king, three different administrations.
 
 

...sigh ...... I know the feeling.
It's worse when you only have four stubby fingers, and your thumbs are  half way up the back side of your front legs.

This is what the Aid book has to say:
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200012397?q=jesus+baptism&p=par
The outpouring of holy spirit at the time of Jesus’ baptism marked the time of his becoming in actual fact the Messiah, or Christ, God’s Anointed One (the use of this title by angels when announcing his birth evidently being in a prophetic sense; Luke 2:9-11; note also verses 25, 26). For six months John had been ‘preparing the way’ for the “saving means of God.” (Luke 3:1-6) Jesus, now “about thirty years old,” was baptized over John’s initial objections, voiced because John till then had been baptizing only repentant sinners. (Matt. 3:1, 6, 13-17; Luke 3:21-23) Jesus, however, was sinless; hence his baptism testified instead to his presenting himself to do his Father’s will. (Compare Hebrews 10:5-9; see BAPTISM [Jesus’ Baptism in Water].) After Jesus had ‘come up from the water,’ and while he was praying, “he saw the heavens being parted” and God’s spirit descended upon Jesus in bodily shape like a dove, and Jehovah’s voice was heard from heaven, saying: “You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you.”—Matt. 3:16, 17; Mark 1:9-11; Luke 3:21, 22.
God’s spirit poured out upon Jesus doubtless illuminated his mind on many points. His own expressions thereafter, and particularly the intimate prayer to his Father on Passover night, 33 C.E., show that Jesus recalled his prehuman existence and the things he had heard from his Father and the things he had seen his Father do, as well as the glory that he himself had enjoyed in the heavens. (John 6:46; 7:28, 29; 8:26, 28, 38; 14:2; 17:5) It may well have been that the memory of these things was restored to him at the time of his baptism and anointing.
Jesus’ anointing appointed and commissioned him to carry out his ministry of preaching and teaching (Luke 4:16-21), and to serve as God’s Prophet. (Acts 3:22-26) But, over and above this, it appointed and commissioned him as Jehovah’s promised King, the heir to David’s throne (Luke 1:32, 33, 69; Heb. 1:8, 9), and to an everlasting kingdom. For that reason he could later tell Pharisees: “The kingdom of God is in your midst.” (Luke 17:20, 21) Similarly, Jesus was anointed to act as God’s High Priest, not as a descendant of Aaron, but after the likeness of King-Priest Melchizedek.—Heb. 5:1, 4-10; 7:11-17.
Jesus had been God’s Son from the time of his birth, even as the perfect Adam had been “the son of God.” (Luke 3:38; 1:35) The angels had identified Jesus as God’s Son from birth onward. So, when, after Jesus’ baptism, his Father’s voice was heard saying, “You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you” (Mark 1:11), it seems reasonable that this declaration accompanying the anointing flow of God’s spirit was more than just an acknowledgment of Jesus’ identity. The evidence is that Jesus was then begotten or brought forth by God as his spiritual Son, “born again,” as it were, with the right to receive life once more as a spirit Son of God in the heavens.—Compare John 3:3-6; 6:51; 10:17, 18; see BAPTISM (Baptism into Christ Jesus and into His Death); ONLY-BEGOTTEN.

This is what the Aid book has to say:
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200012397?q=jesus+baptism&p=par
The outpouring of holy spirit at the time of Jesus’ baptism marked the time of his becoming in actual fact the Messiah, or Christ, God’s Anointed One (the use of this title by angels when announcing his birth evidently being in a prophetic sense; Luke 2:9-11; note also verses 25, 26). For six months John had been ‘preparing the way’ for the “saving means of God.” (Luke 3:1-6) Jesus, now “about thirty years old,” was baptized over John’s initial objections, voiced because John till then had been baptizing only repentant sinners. (Matt. 3:1, 6, 13-17; Luke 3:21-23) Jesus, however, was sinless; hence his baptism testified instead to his presenting himself to do his Father’s will. (Compare Hebrews 10:5-9; see BAPTISM [Jesus’ Baptism in Water].) After Jesus had ‘come up from the water,’ and while he was praying, “he saw the heavens being parted” and God’s spirit descended upon Jesus in bodily shape like a dove, and Jehovah’s voice was heard from heaven, saying: “You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you.”—Matt. 3:16, 17; Mark 1:9-11; Luke 3:21, 22.
God’s spirit poured out upon Jesus doubtless illuminated his mind on many points. His own expressions thereafter, and particularly the intimate prayer to his Father on Passover night, 33 C.E., show that Jesus recalled his prehuman existence and the things he had heard from his Father and the things he had seen his Father do, as well as the glory that he himself had enjoyed in the heavens. (John 6:46; 7:28, 29; 8:26, 28, 38; 14:2; 17:5) It may well have been that the memory of these things was restored to him at the time of his baptism and anointing.
Jesus’ anointing appointed and commissioned him to carry out his ministry of preaching and teaching (Luke 4:16-21), and to serve as God’s Prophet. (Acts 3:22-26) But, over and above this, it appointed and commissioned him as Jehovah’s promised King, the heir to David’s throne (Luke 1:32, 33, 69; Heb. 1:8, 9), and to an everlasting kingdom. For that reason he could later tell Pharisees: “The kingdom of God is in your midst.” (Luke 17:20, 21) Similarly, Jesus was anointed to act as God’s High Priest, not as a descendant of Aaron, but after the likeness of King-Priest Melchizedek.—Heb. 5:1, 4-10; 7:11-17.
Jesus had been God’s Son from the time of his birth, even as the perfect Adam had been “the son of God.” (Luke 3:38; 1:35) The angels had identified Jesus as God’s Son from birth onward. So, when, after Jesus’ baptism, his Father’s voice was heard saying, “You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you” (Mark 1:11), it seems reasonable that this declaration accompanying the anointing flow of God’s spirit was more than just an acknowledgment of Jesus’ identity. The evidence is that Jesus was then begotten or brought forth by God as his spiritual Son, “born again,” as it were, with the right to receive life once more as a spirit Son of God in the heavens.—Compare John 3:3-6; 6:51; 10:17, 18; see BAPTISM (Baptism into Christ Jesus and into His Death); ONLY-BEGOTTEN.

I do not agree with this. (highlighted for the benefit of others) My reasoning is that the scriptures say that God / Christ will bring to ruin those ruining the Earth. And there has to be a complete Judgement of ALL people living on the earth so that the earth can be cleansed. This has to be done all at one time. 
If Armageddon was 'within' as you say then the 'world' would continue to be ruled over by the Devil and suffering would continue forever. 
 

Our cat was never quite the same after spending a few seconds with head inside the dog’s mouth. Later, he auditioned and actually became the moniker for Top Cat O’Malihan, one of my aliases here, employed to mess with astoundingly obnoxious people like Alan F.
Since the dog and cat did not get along (I thought I could keep them out of each other’s sight, but did not reckon on sense of smell), while the dog stayed with us (it was a temporary resident that later became permanent), I brought it to stay with my dad who had dementia. He took it for one of the barn cats that he had grown up with and left bowls of milk for it everywhere, which it did not touch. “Pop!” I grumbled later since I staying with him overnights for a few months before he died, “I want to pour myself a bowl of cereal but I can’t because you’ve poured out all the milk in saucers throughout the house!”

Some things are straightforward, but other things are a matter of interpretation. The thing that gets me is when someone acts like they have it all figured out. Nope.

.
.
How something is worded often contains subtle nuances and references, and sub-references that escape almost everyone, except those whose thinking is not agenda driven.
The problem is .... almost EVERYONES' thinking is agenda driven.
Without getting into George Carlin's famous comment about sticking a needle in your finger, consider the very real difference between these two phrases, being  "waiting to engage", and being "engaged to wait".
If you work for someone, and are on call 24/7/365. make sure that the phraseology is "engaged to wait", and not "waiting to engage".
It makes a difference as to whether or not you are due payment for your services.
In similar fashion, the nuances inherent in the way Scripture is phrased make a very real difference.
However, if your perception is agenda driven, you will always be wrong.
If you think you are a hammer ..... EVERYTHING looks like a nail.
..... and your theology and carpentry work will be crude, ugly, and unworkable.

Tinkering with the transistors that became the internet has been the source of much income for Al Gore and myself.

I understand that. Also knowing God existed is also not the point. If Satan imagined Jehovah himself was the product of the realm in which he was able to view him, like me being in a room or in a world with defined boundaries and I see someone and imagine that they didn't create the realm that we both reside in, but in point of fact simply was the first on the scene, then you'd be getting the point the author is getting at.

I’ll give PSomH an upvote for this. He doesn’t get that many from me.