Anna

I remember a while back, when I was "super holy" browsing a brother's library and noticing Bible literature that was not from our source. In my self righteous judgemental previous self I was shocked and almost stumbled. The said brother then proceeded to recommend some of those books saying how interesting they were especially if we are into deep research. I was beside myself with disgust and loathing, wondering how an elder could be saying this...and is he even an elder, probably more of a closet apostate.  Well that was then, and this is now. Looking back I see how immature I really was, thinking myself spiritually superior to someone else just because they read other things besides "our" things. It works the other way too, do we consider ourselves somehow more intelligent and superior to those who only read "our" literature? Everybody is at varying stages of spiritual maturity and it is ultimately between them and Jehovah what they chose to, or not to, research.
The brother by the way is still our brother. His daughter sings some of our songs.

I remember a while back, when I was "super holy" browsing a brother's library and noticing Bible literature that was not from our source. In my self righteous judgemental previous self I was shocked and almost stumbled. The said brother then proceeded to recommend some of those books saying how interesting they were especially if we are into deep research. I was beside myself with disgust and loathing, wondering how an elder could be saying this...and is he even an elder, probably more of a closet apostate.  Well that was then, and this is now. Looking back I see how immature I really was, thinking myself spiritually superior to someone else just because they read other things besides "our" things. It works the other way too, do we consider ourselves somehow more intelligent and superior to those who only read "our" literature? Everybody is at varying stages of spiritual maturity and it is ultimately between them and Jehovah what they chose to, or not to, research.
The brother by the way is still our brother. His daughter sings some of our songs.

I suppose reasonableness and balance is the key 😀

I remember a while back, when I was "super holy" browsing a brother's library and noticing Bible literature that was not from our source. In my self righteous judgemental previous self I was shocked and almost stumbled. The said brother then proceeded to recommend some of those books saying how interesting they were especially if we are into deep research. I was beside myself with disgust and loathing, wondering how an elder could be saying this...and is he even an elder, probably more of a closet apostate.  Well that was then, and this is now. Looking back I see how immature I really was, thinking myself spiritually superior to someone else just because they read other things besides "our" things. It works the other way too, do we consider ourselves somehow more intelligent and superior to those who only read "our" literature? Everybody is at varying stages of spiritual maturity and it is ultimately between them and Jehovah what they chose to, or not to, research.
The brother by the way is still our brother. His daughter sings some of our songs.

I suppose reasonableness and balance is the key 😀

I remember a while back, when I was "super holy" browsing a brother's library and noticing Bible literature that was not from our source. In my self righteous judgemental previous self I was shocked and almost stumbled. The said brother then proceeded to recommend some of those books saying how interesting they were especially if we are into deep research. I was beside myself with disgust and loathing, wondering how an elder could be saying this...and is he even an elder, probably more of a closet apostate.  Well that was then, and this is now. Looking back I see how immature I really was, thinking myself spiritually superior to someone else just because they read other things besides "our" things. It works the other way too, do we consider ourselves somehow more intelligent and superior to those who only read "our" literature? Everybody is at varying stages of spiritual maturity and it is ultimately between them and Jehovah what they chose to, or not to, research.
The brother by the way is still our brother. His daughter sings some of our songs.

Speaking of retrospectives....I was reminiscing on a place I lived as a kid and found this
This is the sort of thing a lot of people don't get about Mexican culture. They look for and see magic everywhere. What's interesting to me is that you have JW's who aren't that different from these people. I'm not sure what's worse - seeing God acting everywhere or never seeing his hand in anything at all. (This is what I grew up around. My parents hired a sitter for me and my sister before we went to school and they later told me that she was a curandera)

Bingo.
It’s the pure nastiness of one, not to mention the pure dodo-headedness of another. These annoy far more than the posts themselves, though sometimes the two are hard to unravel.
After Paul makes his speech in the Areopagus, he says: “Okay. Been there/done that. If I don’t keep looking upon all these idols, maybe I won’t keep getting so irritated. Maybe I can get around to writing some of those epistles that have been kicking around in the back of my head.”
People have different interests. Most friends only have so much time for reading, and many have only so much interest. If they choose to read Watchtower-only material, why would I have a problem with that? They trust the source. If I recall correctly, @Thinkingmentioned a circuit overseer who acknowledged that spiritual food must be written for the masses, necessitating those with extra reading appetite to do extra study projects. I wrote about some of that here:
https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2019/01/what-witnesses-are-allowed-to-read.html
If you go somewhere that ordinary theocratic reading does not take us—looking into the nitty-gritty of this or that complaint, for example, you have a responsibility to frame things in accord with the brotherhood, unless, like Rulf, you decide your complaints are so stellar and overriding that they justify your leaving the brotherhood, in which case you should do so. But where is he now? Doubtless the “scholars” he consoles himself that he will hang out with are few and far between—most “scholars” have concluded the further they get from God, the better—and his new best friends become some of the smarter adversaries here. Instead, I sort of like JWI, who comes up with some orthodox things, but still says “God’s people obviously need headship, as does everyone else, and the present arrangement is overall doing a good job.”
One long-ago article said, what if you come across some Bible account that seems hard to reconcile, even shocking? Do you do a 60-minutes blow-the-cover-off expose of God? Or do you reflect on how good he’s been to you, that you don’t have all the facts, and if you did, no doubt it would make a difference? Do you do a Jesus, who was overall quite merciful toward his disciples, even when they made blunders or veered into self-importance?

..... I know ... I feel the same way about cats.

I see a problem in isolating ones thoughts from those around us, however. On the one hand we could be exploring areas which are faith-building to us, but not touched on in any depth by the society and there are some who have controlling personalities who view with a jaundiced eye this sort of thing.
I remember years ago when I took the Bible tapes the society produced and with the aid of the Aid Book and the societies other materials, I spliced the recordings of all the synoptic gospels into one long, but completely chronological account. Then when I was running or driving about I'd listen to these.
The brother who was my book study conductor at the time submitted that this "de-canonized the scriptures". I ignored him of course.
But if no one knows what we're thinking and reading and we have no parity with others with whom we share common beliefs we could easily become lopsided. We are also engaging in a hierarchical judging of sorts w/regard to our brothers and sisters, rating some more highly than others because these share our viewpoints on these matters.
Quite frankly I'm not sure there's a perfect solution to any of this. I know from experience that there are things I think about that others would  consider off, and even wrong, but I can't help thinking what I think when I think what I thing to be true. I can't "un-believe" or "un-think" or "un-see" things I've come to see. But because I don't feel comfortable in sharing does that say more about me or about them, or is this just the human condition that we'll always have to contend with on this side of armageddon? I don't know.
It does feel a bit like sneaking around though. I've found myself even annoyed at times when listening to some brothers insert their own opinions which are simply one of many ways of applying a given scripture as if there was only one right way during meetings and madly scribbling my annoyances in detail in my personal notes (good thing no one has found them - instead it may simply be that others would see Bro X furiously taking notes and imagining these were notes of approval, when at times it's just the opposite, especially if it's when there's some idolatrous worship being given of organizations or men in certain positions as I've never held anyone in high regard as I know Jehovah could "raise up children to Abraham" from the dust of the ground and as Jesus said "no one is good, but God" so any hint of creature worship gets me pissed off. )

Yes. I think this is pretty much the reason some of us like to come here (and even more so the closed club where we can discuss deeper things without the distraction of opposers). If one has been in the truth for a long time, and has had much experience in the truth, then the basics just repeated over and over are not enough for some. There are always new things to learn! And sometimes these things can be a bit controversial and frowned upon by others, but I don't feel bad, in fact I feel positively enlightened 😀

Well I didn't say you should block him, just not respond. But I guess you have no self control Tom, so if blocking is what it takes then that's the way to go 👍😀

Yes. I think this is pretty much the reason some of us like to come here (and even more so the closed club where we can discuss deeper things without the distraction of opposers). If one has been in the truth for a long time, and has had much experience in the truth, then the basics just repeated over and over are not enough for some. There are always new things to learn! And sometimes these things can be a bit controversial and frowned upon by others, but I don't feel bad, in fact I feel positively enlightened 😀

Yes. I think this is pretty much the reason some of us like to come here (and even more so the closed club where we can discuss deeper things without the distraction of opposers). If one has been in the truth for a long time, and has had much experience in the truth, then the basics just repeated over and over are not enough for some. There are always new things to learn! And sometimes these things can be a bit controversial and frowned upon by others, but I don't feel bad, in fact I feel positively enlightened 😀

Nor is there anywhere else. 

Yes. I think this is pretty much the reason some of us like to come here (and even more so the closed club where we can discuss deeper things without the distraction of opposers). If one has been in the truth for a long time, and has had much experience in the truth, then the basics just repeated over and over are not enough for some. There are always new things to learn! And sometimes these things can be a bit controversial and frowned upon by others, but I don't feel bad, in fact I feel positively enlightened 😀

In Finland the government considers any suppression of the right to vote to be a violation of basic human decency and God-given rights of dignity and self determination. As such as they threatened Jehovah’s Witnesses with revocation of the charity status if they were involved with anything and violated basic human rights. Jehovah’s Witness charity status entitles them by law to siphon off tax money in relationship to how many parishioners they have and in this case it’s about $12 million a year. The Society does not want to lose that money, so they have made a dispensation for Finnish Jehovah’s Witnesses, and there’s no congregational sanctions of any sort if a Witness wants to vote in Finnish elections.
I know of one brother locally who the Elders called him up and ask if he had voted because they saw he was a registered voter. He related the incident above and they had nothing to say.

Uh oh.
So much for the mystery of how Dr Max “Ace” Inhibitor landed that vote for County Coroner.

There are other ways --for free-- to get names tied to addresses tied to phone numbers, and these are usually about to 90% up to date. When you sort them by address you can get entire apartment complexes. My son is an attorney and merely requested them through FOIA and has on separate occasions, obtained the entire counties of Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn, Nassau (Long Island). You can't legally use the data for any specific non-political purpose, and you definitely can't use it to look up specific people one might wish to know about. But, if I looked at it closely, I could even tell you whether a specific Witness voted in a previous election.

I did exactly the same thing. Working a unit at a time. On my final run, with no bad experiences, I called on the manager. “There! See? Nobody cares if we call or not.”
Are you kidding me, she said. ‘The phone’s been ringing off the hook. It’s just that nobody found you in time.”
Apartments were a pain, heightened because some of the friends were LOUD. You’d want to be discreet and there they were as though using a megaphone behind you. I had some good experiences working my apartment territory, though. One fellow said repeatedly (like 4Jah might) that he and Jesus were tight. There was no need for me to come calling because he loved Jesus. He Jesused this and Jesused that. All the while, his wife was in the background urging him to not talk to me. Suddenly he whirled about: “WILL YOU SHUT UP!!” he screamed. And without missing a beat, he resumed for my benefit his lovefest with Jesus.
Exiting the building, a door opened. I had spoken to the man before who had blown me off. Now he was interested. “That’s guys a real yo-yo,” he said, and then invited me in for the nicest conversation.

Then there was crusty, cranky old Bro Manera. I remember being at an elders meeting w/him and floated the idea of turning unassigned territory into telephone territory that congregations could GET assigned and these could then work them any way they'd like - phone, physical, letters - the closest to in person was best, but the point would be to get to these people more frequently.
He didn't get it. He said "I think it would be confusing to the ones who were working it.". I blurted out "I don't think you get it. No one's working the territory because it's not assigned. Why not just assign it and get the job done w/whatever means can be made?" As all the other elders (except one) looked at me like I'd lost my mind.
 

I'd like to know more about him and his background (or have a zoom chat). One thing I've had to navigate, as have many others is that there's often this misunderstanding that being interested in exploring subjects such as the ones that we as JW's profess to be interested in (like Jehovah and the Bible) is somehow disloyal if we decide that we on our own wish to explore further.
A person can be faithful and quite frankly bored by material which is repetitive and containing nothing novel. It's not surprising that when you are truly interested in the material, that you eventually "make the truth your own" and strike off in some ways exploring areas not of interest to the average.
This doesn't mean you're a "bad person" or "unfaithful" or even "unappreciative". It just means that you're not learning disabled or perpetually fascinated by spiritual milk ("Yes, I know. God's name is Jehovah. Fascinating").
Of course this is where the novelty in exploration can cause people who don't appreciate things this way to assume that one finds something deficient in the relationship or that it is failing them in some way or that these have failed the other.
It can also (and understandably can) create conflict in the congregation. "Why is that brother reading that? Doesn't he appreciate the organization?". So if a brother or sister does have interests which aren't currently satisfied in this area it would be nice to know how these have managed to balance it out.
Are these living a double-life? They realize that many people simply don't have the capacity to be AS interested in these things and they keep it to themselves?
How do they do it? Should they have to do it?
My sister (a non-JW) once asked me (she's high functioning autistic w/160 IQ) "What do you DO at those meetings? Just believe the same things together?" and I laughed and said this is how it goes Mary "Bro X to Bro Y. I believe Z. and "Bro Y says so do I whereupon Bro X responds, his eyes slightly squinting "Mighty fine! Mighty fine!""
She laughed (apparently I'm one of the few family members who can make her laugh).
This reminds me of people who don't understand why when they value the same things, they still have problems in their relationships. The answer, I've read somewhere is that when there's a conflict of valued things, the relative importance of each to the other values isn't the same - hence the friction.
So you may have some who say they value learning about Jehovah and the world he created and they value the Bible, but they may value the relationships between people and stability and continuity more than the novelty which might come from a new idea or a new discovery or even the prospect of further exploration.
Take the great commission. I thought it was THE most important thing, but not everyone looked at it the same way.
When I was first appointed as an MS I remember how happy I was we had a project to remake the maps for our territory. Well I knew that we weren't really working the apartment complexes properly because no one liked getting kicked out or having the police called on them, so I knew they really weren't getting worked at all and to me it was a lie when people checked these back in.
So I decided to break every apartment complex into a separate territory so that people who really wanted to work these would work them. I redid all the territories in this way.
Then after six months the CO came by and did his inspection and asked me about the territories and I explained what I did and why and he seemed satisfied. ("Where is the history of workage for these territories?") Of course no one really wanted to work these and so because I was a pioneer I decided to do them and I'd make raids on the apartments by working a few buildings and then running out before security got me. But truth was that no one wanted them at all.
BUT we actually we finally telling the truth about our territory coverage. YAY!
Then Bro Brandt (I remember him now) came back and checked the territories the next time, and complained about me to the elders and I remember being behind the counter when he came up to me and asked me the same question he asked me before, and I said "For the same reason I told you the last time you asked." (I was a little sharp, but I didn't like the tone of his voice). Then he said "What am I going to tell the society?" and I said "Why don't you tell them what you told them last time." (pretty much knowing I'm not going to be an elder ANY time soon. But quite frankly he pissed me off. The black brothers w/me behind the counter were a bit surprised by me. One (who'd been a gang member) later asked me if I'd grown up in the hood, because I didn't show any fear. I said, no, but I did grow up in Laredo where you'd get picked on all the time for being a gringo.
The elders decided maybe someone else should be territory servant, but nobody wanted the job.
Next time around, though, I did have a private talk w/Bro Brandt and he apologized. He said "Bro X, what did the elders tell you to do w/the territories?" and I said "Nothing." and he said "They didn't tell you to try to estimate workage?" and I said "No. I haven't heard a thing. Which elders did you tell? Let's go get them, get a room and straighten this thing out." We did and these elders had some really shameful looks on their faces.
Thing is, now our congregation was finally having to take their commission more seriously because my remapping the territories made us look bad.
I remember thinking how maybe getting the phone numbers of a number of these which we were totally locked out of might help. This was before telephone witnessing became a thing.
So I looked around for telephone directories on disk and I found a few, but they weren't up to date. Then I did more research and realized that I could get a reel-to-reel tape from the utility department with names, addresses AND phone numbers! Everyone had to pay their utilities and their phone number would be up to date.
Yay! But before I could get the brothers to approve of the $800 for the adventure ( I would have paid for it myself, but I had to also pay this third party to perform some extractions of the data to csv so we could put these  in spreadsheets.
So for the lockouts we tried calling the numbers I could get even if these were old off the disks I bought at work for other telemarketing efforts and coupled this with direct mail to get the rest.
We did have one brother from Guyana who was up for innovation so we got all the difficult apartments and he acted as a general, we would get assigned maybe two doors and the congregation carpooled and parked outside and at 10 AM sharp, we'd all knock at the same time on our prescribed doors. BOOM! And we were gone before security could zip up their fly!
 
 

Of course, neither Dogs or Jehovah's Witnesses vote.
For Dogs it is because of the failed French Poodle rebellion of 1870, and we have had to eat from dishes on the ground, since then.

I also subscribe to academia.edu. Yes, I think you are talking about Gerard Gertoux. (Although the link you provide somehow doesn't go to that article)  I believe JWInsider has been in correspondence with him quite a few times..
 

Sen-yor Chavez ... if I may pose a relevant question ....
It seems that from what I have been reading in the past few months here on the Archive, that EVERYBODY without exception is mentally ill .... except you?
My Guardian is ASD .... he even labels my dog water bowl and food bowl with a tape label maker, which I have noticed is also labeled with a yellow tape "Label Maker" on the label maker.   And on the label of the label maker's label that says "Label Maker", is a tiny label that says "Label",