Anna

We are still living in the real world you know.  We use money like everyone else for our needs.  Manna not yet falling from heaven again - only spiritual food.  And one needs a computer and a roof over your head for that too!

I do not know if you believe in the bible at all but this question reminds me of the pharisees who asked Jesus about the woman who had seven husbands and the resurrection. Jesus gave a good answer.

@Jack Ryan You really need to read into the context of things and what it means to gain and maintain salvation. That last one I can easily spot. God knows his people and he knows who the meek ones are and those who have not heard his word, such ones will hear it after all things have concluded. The teaching of God and his Kingdom does not end there, and the enemy has yet to be done away with until after judgement has concluded.

What I remember is Ronald J Sider’s book ‘The Scandal of the Evangelical Conscience—Why are Christians Living Just Like the Rest of the World.’
After reviewing dozens of verses on conduct, he says “if Paul is even close to being right on what it means to be a Christian, these verses ought to drive us to our knees in repentance, and then determination to reform.
He is an evangelical leader with suggestions for reform. Of course, they are of an organizational nature. And, of course, JWs are already doing them, and yes, they do resolve the problems he details.
I wrote several posts about this
The reason that people organize is so they can get more things done, and get them done effectively—an obvious plus when it comes to gathering, teaching, and shepherding a worldwide congregation.
The reason that people oppose such organization is that they do not want such things done. It is no more complicated than that.
And the reason the Christian organization applies for money that is legally owed it is....do I really have to explain this?
 

It sounds like a lot of money 2.5 million dollars is not that much when other religions were receiving subsidies but we were discriminated against for  12 years.   Divide it by twelve and it is just over 2 million per year.  They are, I think, just asking what was due to them including costs.

Well? Of course. The only verb that has probably been added is “demand.” Change it to “asserted that the consequences of the wrong classification should be addressed” and one could not expect anything else.
Maybe no religions should get state funding. Maybe no charitable organizations should. That is a separate issue. 
But if they do, and JWs alone were excluded due to a prior incorrect classification, then of course that should be rectified.

Sorry for butting in, but I think she meant JTR's family too. I am sure JTR getting arrested has had a negative impact on them (his wife etc.), regardless whether he is guilty or innocent.
edit: Ok, I just saw she explained it...

Sorry for butting in, but I think she meant JTR's family too. I am sure JTR getting arrested has had a negative impact on them (his wife etc.), regardless whether he is guilty or innocent.
edit: Ok, I just saw she explained it...

Sorry for butting in, but I think she meant JTR's family too. I am sure JTR getting arrested has had a negative impact on them (his wife etc.), regardless whether he is guilty or innocent.
edit: Ok, I just saw she explained it...

I disagree - as do child abuse prevention agencies.
Also see this article: https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/protecting-children-sexual-abuse/202008/language-matters-child-pornography-no-longer
Now to JTR. We do not know the exact nature of the material or the circumstances leading to his (alleged) possession or viewing of it, and I'm not going to speculate. I will be most interested in the outcome of his future trial, whichever way it goes. I'm sure other members here feel the same. As he was a frequent poster here, that outcome should, imo, be shared on this forum just as his arrest was. There's nothing shameful about posting publicly available, factual information on a person we interacted with and which could help explain his cryptic message and sudden absence, @Thinking. The shame is in being arrested for that crime.
I just hope his family and the (alleged) victims are coping OK because this whole saga must be turning their worlds upside-down. Too often we focus on the accused and forget the other lives upended by this.

I think Thinking thought you were talking about JTR, whearas in fact you were talking about Ann O' Maly 😂. Another classic example of how misunderstandings can happen. It stems from trying to be too diplomatic and not mentioning names. Sometimes it's good to be straightforward. One thing is sure, this thread is teaching quite a few lessons 😁
 

Yes (I remember the  movie, Lindy Chamberlain being excellently portrayed by Meryl Streep). It showed perfectly how people can be whipped up into mass hysteria over something that they have no idea about.....merely assumptions and  prejudice (in this case her religion) this experience and the one you mention of the poor brother, show what a daunting task the elders have in having to  be careful not to wrongly accuse someone. Because as you say, it can destroy lives when the person is actually innocent. It is as if we let out all the feathers in a pillow, and then try to put them back in. 
As for the situation with JTR, nobody that I am aware of passed any judgement on him, not even me, considering I (wrongly) thought he had been convicted.
I know you mean well, but I am not sure what you mean by "started this"? You mean that somebody posted a link* to a probable explanation to his sudden departure from the forum? That’s all I can think of, because nobody expressed any negative or judgemental comments to do with JTR on this thread. On the contrary....
*the information in the link is accessible to the public, anyone can see it.

I think Thinking thought you were talking about JTR, whearas in fact you were talking about Ann O' Maly 😂. Another classic example of how misunderstandings can happen. It stems from trying to be too diplomatic and not mentioning names. Sometimes it's good to be straightforward. One thing is sure, this thread is teaching quite a few lessons 😁
 

Yes it probably was that way. Ah. Now, things make more sense. Thanks for that bit of light.

I think Thinking thought you were talking about JTR, whearas in fact you were talking about Ann O' Maly 😂. Another classic example of how misunderstandings can happen. It stems from trying to be too diplomatic and not mentioning names. Sometimes it's good to be straightforward. One thing is sure, this thread is teaching quite a few lessons 😁
 

Yes (I remember the  movie, Lindy Chamberlain being excellently portrayed by Meryl Streep). It showed perfectly how people can be whipped up into mass hysteria over something that they have no idea about.....merely assumptions and  prejudice (in this case her religion) this experience and the one you mention of the poor brother, show what a daunting task the elders have in having to  be careful not to wrongly accuse someone. Because as you say, it can destroy lives when the person is actually innocent. It is as if we let out all the feathers in a pillow, and then try to put them back in. 
As for the situation with JTR, nobody that I am aware of passed any judgement on him, not even me, considering I (wrongly) thought he had been convicted.
I know you mean well, but I am not sure what you mean by "started this"? You mean that somebody posted a link* to a probable explanation to his sudden departure from the forum? That’s all I can think of, because nobody expressed any negative or judgemental comments to do with JTR on this thread. On the contrary....
*the information in the link is accessible to the public, anyone can see it.

Ok, if you want to nit-pick. But it is understood that since everyone, including, the elders, are the congregation, then when the Bible says take your grievance to the congregation, it means to those who have shepherding roles, rather than stand on a pedestal and tell the whole assembly of brothers and sisters including children. I can just imagine getting up on the platform and taking the mic and  announcing my accusation against another member. "Hear, hear, I have an announcement to make; br. 4jah did wrong, he did such and such and won't listen to me".  "Booo!" shout some, others say "can't be, surely not 4jah"? Nope, I think you can see that would not be the wisest option.
1Cor 14:40 But let all things take place decently and by arrangement. 
Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelizers, some as shepherds and teachers..
1 Peter 5:2 Shepherd the flock of God under your care, serving as overseers....

I think Thinking thought you were talking about JTR, whearas in fact you were talking about Ann O' Maly 😂. Another classic example of how misunderstandings can happen. It stems from trying to be too diplomatic and not mentioning names. Sometimes it's good to be straightforward. One thing is sure, this thread is teaching quite a few lessons 😁
 

The Police have wasted no time in contacting me. The IICSA must have contacted the Police immediately and the Police emailed me today, and i have just replied to them.  The Police wanted all the same information and more besides.  I actually found it quite easy to deal in facts, and not get emotional about knowing the people involved. What I did find a bit difficult is when they asked questions which i didn't have true answers to, because i didn't want to 'guess' the answers.  I made sure to state that certain things were only 'my own opinion'.  It would be nice to hear a result but i doubt i will. 

I hope so! The ability to edit is also gone (for me anyway). I need that, since after reading over what I have already posted I always find some nonsense that I have written that needs changing! (including grammar)

Very true. And although I am not news media (😀) I made that classic mistake of NOT reading properly, and assuming! Shame on me.

I don't think it's about retaining the position, but more about fear of slandering the person. When there is notoriety surrounding someone in a responsible position then that position is usually removed. 
 
Yes, that is was what I was trying to imply.

You don't know JTR like we do, he would totally understand.

No sooner had I posted this:
than Witness posted this:
It is a very helpful link explaining the program.
Now, Witness never ever posts things just to be helpful. In every case, she posts to denigrate her rivals the GB and to assure all that she can do things better. So why does she post this helpful link here?
Everyone knows her m.o. She is in a panic that God’s organization might get credit for this generosity and she wants to make sure that they don’t. She wants to make clear that this is a GOVERNMENT program, NOT a JehovahsWitness program, and that people SHOULD NOT credit her rivals with generosity. 
Chill, you old battle axe, don’t worry about it. I plainly said that it was a USDA program for which I was grateful. USDA is government. Relax. I wasn’t giving your rivals the credit. I even said it represented a “Go to Donald” and I lament that JTR was no longer around, for I suspected that might get him going. The only credit I gave to the elders was for distributing the items.
But does this prompt distribution not show the value of organization, organization that she says ‘Who needs it?’ Why does the USDA do it this way—distribute to non-profits? Because they have a ton of aid to distribute and if they do it all at government facilities the lines will be two miles long. They also face the challenge of letting potential recipients know. So they distribute to non-profits, taking advantage of the communication and distribution channels that they know will exist there.
Will everyone agree here that NOBODY will do this more effectively than Jehovah’s Witnesses? There may be some to do it AS effectively, but nobody will beat them at it. Organizations where all members are known and readily found and where there exist messengers to deliver foodstuffs to each and every one of them cannot be an everyday thing.
My wife and I received a package Saturday around 2PM, after hearing reports of such a program that morning. I can well imagine that there were churches whose members learned of it Sunday morning at services, assuming that they happened to be there, and if they weren’t—too bad. It is not my aim to put them down—frankly I think we do far too much of putting church people down—It is only to point out that the attention of the JW organization to each member is not replicated everywhere. Even where the will exists, the means may not—you have to have volunteers to quickly distribute. There will be some outfits, I have no doubt, that are attentive to those in need and will connect promptly to bring aid. But it will not be universal, and in some cases It will break down completely since it was never built up.
It’s produce. It can’t sit around for days. It has to be handed out to each individual promptly. Members of the Witness community are broken down into service meeting groups, each under the oversight of one or more shepherds, who will know of any among them who is especially needy, and can therefore be prioritized. Apparently, there was plenty for all this time, but that may not always be so, and the elders will know how to best apportion. They are prepared to organize internal relief as was done in the 2nd chapter of Acts—coordinate members sharing with members—so that nobody is overlooked. In this case, the aid came from outside—a provision of Caesar (probably not replicated in too many countries)—and all there was to do was to distribute it promptly. I am very grateful to the government that is attentive to physical needs. Nonetheless, much of it would fall flat without proper expedition.
And Witness says ‘Who needs organization?’ Is she nuts? This is why you need it. This is where, not only it is needed, but you draw yourself as close to it as possible so there will be no question that you are a part of it. You become one of the embers that knows enough to pull toward the main fire so as to remain embers. You don’t pull away from the fire so that, in time, nobody, including yourself, really knows it you are an ember or not.
“Be sure to tune in to the WomanfromtheHills broadcast at 2 PM on Facebook for a discussion which will be the same as last week’s discussion—how my rivals are doing it all wrong and I can do better. Oh—and are you physically hungry? I think there is a government center somewhere in your area where they are handing out food. Get in queue. The line is only two hours in the sun. It may be that you will get some produce before it wilts and you can still be back in time to hear my address on how the Great Eight are good for nothing.”