TrueTomHarley

This is not surprising. Nor is it especially uncommon. One of the elders in my region—I know him well—was essentially cast from the family when he did not assume his role as oilman heir. When I would travel with him in service and pass a gas station, sometimes I would exclaim: “Look, Jim—Texas tea!”* *A term for “oil”—originated by the American sit-com “The Beverly Hillbillies.” (also, I never use the real name of someone who is still alive—so “Jim” is not the real name—the sole exception being a retired circuit overseer from my first book. I forwarded to him the chapter in which he is mentioned, and he said “it didn’t make sense to him—I still think I have all my marbles.” So I fretted that I had used his actual name, and offered to replace it. But he said that he didn’t really care—I could do as I wanted. He is up there in his 90s, and still keeps the preaching schedule of a circuit overseer) Add this to @JW Insider‘s list of how this Internet forum can benefit the friends. Rubbing shoulders with the most determined & virulent opposers on the planet can put fine qualities to the test as can nothing else.

No, don’t @Melinda Mills (are YOU the owner?)—not yet. Let me answer Allen first. I may not get to till it tomorrow, though. Perhaps I can bump it up. If my meetings with Vic Vomidog, Dr Max “Ace” Inhibitor, Professor Adhomenen, Arguis Maxus, and a few others go well, maybe I can get back here tonight.

Yes. The trinity is confusing. Almost all phrases that are used to support the trinity are ones that, were they to appear in any other context, they would instantly be dismissed as figures of speech.

For whatever it is worth, I find very enlightening your exchange with JWI on this topic. I gain much from both of your views. There are no “typical” Witnesses here, in my view, except for a few that occasionally stray here, sometimes naively offer comments, thinking persons will be readjusted, and then leave shocked when they discover that no way will it happen. On a few occasions, I have chased them away—it is fine for them to stay here if they wish, but they should know the score before they do. They should not think that Witness, for example, is some misguided sister that they can help with but a kind word or two. Even you (though I have not seen it) can be expected to come in for criticism from some of the friends, who will confuse being knowledgeable about world affairs with violating neutrality. I’ll throw in a few teasers which vary in relevance—comment on them as you see fit. (Same goes for JWI) I value both. The “terrible trade deals” with China that Trump carries on about (and most of the U.S. business community agrees that they are indeed terrible from the US point of view) were based on the assumption that if China became prosperous, its own citizens would demand government not Communist and would lean to a more democratic model. Instead, the very opposite is happening. True or no? The reason that theft of intellectual property proves so intractable to negotiate is that the communist government and those molded by it really doesn’t understand the concept. True or no? I know almost nothing about Falun Gong. The first time I heard of them it was in connection with a subway gas attack in Japan, and from that point on figured that it was some wacky cult. Was that story a plant? The son of a local sister who recently died, and I was at her funeral, is the author of a book on Unit 731, a Japanese wartime atrocity roughly the equivalent of Hitler’s camps, from the same WWII era. The reports of organ harvesting mirror things documented there, though there it was more medical experiments than harvesting, like in some German Camps. https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2019/06/i-dont-think-i-have-ever-been-distracted-in-a-prayer-by-rounds-of-poor-jud-is-dead.html

Don’t tell me Vic Vomidog went down! If so, Anna will rejoice. She has said that she never liked him. And with good reason. Vic is a rotter through and through. He appears in my first book. Ivor E. Tower, who is actually a published religious scholar specializing in “new religions,” was kind enough to review “Tom Irregardless and Me.” Vic (the skunk) is included in his paragraph: “The book is about real people and issues, although the author has changed the names of rank-and-file members to preserve name anonymity. Tom Irregardless is an elder who uses the spurious word “irregardless” liberally in his Bible talks. Other characters include John Wheatnweeds, who hinders members from their house-to-house ministry by spending inordinate amounts of time expounding the text of the day before they set out. Then there is posh brandy-sipping Bernard Strawman, who receives frequent visits from the publishers, but continues to raise facile objections to their faith. Vic Vomidog, an apostate, repeatedly seeks to hamper their work. Other chapters are about real JW celebrities such as Prince, who is the subject of an entire chapter.” Vic has gone down, has he? Sometimes when the squabbling here becomes intense, I would wish that everyone was banned and the entire WorldNewsMedia forum simply be devoted to coverage of my books. I’ll speak to Admin about it.

All you bad people had better stop doing and saying bad things—that’s all I can say.

Yes. This is why people become Jehovah’s Witnesses. They see the sad history of “man dominating man to his injury” and respond to the good news of the kingdom, recognizing it as something better. it is an excellent point that you make.

Titan is tongue-in-cheek, not to be taken literally. I just meant that you express your points well.

Spin and counterspin, impossible to unravel to all but those with exhausive background knowledge and time. Mr Admin is at his best when he hosts these two titans hashing it out—Arauna and JWI, yet it seems unlikely even these will be able to persuade each other. Each has grabbed hold of the elephant in a different place—thus they argue differing appraisals of the beast. In the end, it may simply come down to considering the women. Or at least, that process works as well as any other. Mr. Wilson, for example, observes that: East coast girls are hip I really dig those styles they wear And the Southern girls with the way they talk They knock me out when I'm down there The Mid-West farmer's daughters really make you feel alright And the Northern girls with the way they kiss They keep their boyfriends warm at night However, Mr. McCartney would beg to differ. His experience leads him to maintain that: The Ukraine girls really knock me out, they leave the west behind. And Moscow girls make me sing and shout, that Georgia's always on my my my my my my my my my mind All that really matters in the end is the degree to which they will allow us to live in peace, worship our God, and announce the kingdom.

The faith groups that produce apostates are but a tiny sliver of the overall world population. You “think outside the box” when you leave the mainstream to enter one of those relatively tiny faith groups. You do not “think outside the box” when you leave one to rejoin the mainstream, any more than you “think outside the box” when you eat in the dining room, sleep in the bedroom, or shower in the bathroom. This is no more than a effort to penalize and ideally eliminate those who truly “think outside of the box,” those who would actually dare to be “no part of the world.” The situation should not be framed any other way. If I play my cards right, perhaps I can get coverage of my book right there on the Norwegian Saturday News: https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/917311

JTR may be Captain America, but he does have a point here. From what I have read he was pretty much that way himself—his excellence was in cunnning. During WWII, his son was captured by the Germans and he was given opportunity to ransom him. He declined the offer and the son died in a concentration camp.

I appreciate the concern expressed for Foreigner and the obvious good counsel. I did not “like” that comment itself so as not to draw you into the cabal in his eyes or anyone else’s. Your advice and demeanor reminded me also of Jesus’ description of the prodigal son’s older brother, the one apparently intended to picture the Pharisees. As such, Jesus could have portrayed him quite negatively, but he did not. He focused only on the positive. The older brother HAD been faithful to his father’s household, and if he had any negative traits (as he must have if he was to picture the Pharisees) Jesus did not mention them. It is an appeal to that group, and some took him up on it, as later “a great crowd of priests” became obedient to the faith. It offsets other times when the Lord ran them through the wringer, as he did in the 23rd chapter of Matthew, for example.

All of these brands were eventually discarded for Toms I apologize.

Nor have I ever seen one of Trump’s rallies, due to my usual objection about video. Of course, I have seen clips of them as presented on media, where they are carefully culled to make them appear hate-laden, yet even there, sometimes they reveal the wishes of the media more than that of the Pres—the media being primarily left of center, by over 90%.

Not me

Ha! JWI and I will ban him as well. Still, you have a point. Maybe JWI and I will ban you. THAT, I know, will never work, and thus my point will be proved—I am not the owner and cannot ban anyone, nor can JWI

I know it sounds as though shedding neutrality myself, but in the Pres vs Media war, it is not that I am pro-former. But I am anti-latter, I freely admit. If there is some new family-undermining meme or some new morality sure to turn society upside down, media instantly embraces it—they are all over it—so anything that gets them apoplectic cannot be all that bad. It’s the same with warring against business-as-usual government. (He wars with everyone!) To call him a bull in a china shop, one must accept the premise that the latter is a china shop. Junkyard dog in a junkyard works better. The focus should be, not on the subject (bull vs junkyard dog—there will be little disagreement there), but on the object of the preposition (china shop vs junkyard)—here there is disagreement. It took me awhile to notice it, but those who hang their hats and hearts on the BITE model (of Behavioral, Informational, Thought, and Emotional “control”) that they see everywhere and apply to Jehovah’s Witnesses in a heartbeat are almost always leftists. They are almost always people who think that government as usual IS a china shop, albeit a deeply flawed one. On the issue of sovereignty, they almost always are ones who advocate “government by Man,” and not “government by God.” It is very hard to shed all appearance of partisanship. For that reason, many of Jehovah’s Witnesses go further than they need to, in my opinion, and object if you even mention politics for fear of not staying neutral. Even Geoffrey Jackson, when he is lecturing on the importance of maintaining neutrality, acknowledges how hard it is to not think, “I hope that idiot does not come into power,” and it is impossible for me not to think what idiot he has in mind.

It is clear to me that there is only ONE WAY to convince you that we are not the owners and do not have that power, so...... “Right now, @JW Insider LET’S DO THIS THING! LET’S BAN HIM!” There. I do not expect to see him again, since JWI and I have banned him. If I do.....

The fact that you call them “hate rallies” suggests a shedding of neutrality.

Ah....perhaps it is you are being your normal wise guy. It is not from you that I fear that the slaying would come. In fact—did you not once say you had my back when opponents on Twitter lapsed into making threats? No. Frothing though you may be with regard to Christian leadership, I would feel perfect safe physically in your presence. Spiritually—I am not so sure.

What congregation do those sisters attend? It was a mistake I love that brand.

Ha! Without seeing this comment, I just made one very similar: If you hadn’t made that last stupid comparison, I even would have issued a “like” to your remark Still, if it should ever present one of those deals as with Moses descending from the mountain and people are ordered to separate, I’ll take his side before yours—screwy and cantankerous though he is. Alas, he will probably slay me. He doesn’t exactly respond well to reproof, much less to the rebuke that he routinely triggers. And “display of anger?”—tell me about it.

@admin probably knows of this. He keeps up, having more flesh in the game. I found this message while commenting on a blogspot blog: I wonder if there will in time appear such messages with regard to California. Or is it more complex than that?

I rest my case. You frequently do not come across as sane, Foreigner. Loyal, perhaps. Even that is questionable, given your seeming penchant to portray JWs as the most intolerant, pit-bull-like people on earth, far in excess of what they actually are. You present as with a severe case of argumentative OCD, which admittedly afflicts most of us here to one degree or another.

When the world at last wakes up to a problem, it wildly overswings. It misses its target, who ducks, and hits square in the teeth the unsuspecting, innocent, and ordinary joe standing just behind.‬ Will this be soon be the case in the world of blogging? Mr. Admin thinks so. He runs a big site. He will go down at the end of the year, he fears, “as will many, many bloggers and other small ad-supported websites due to onerous and draconian data privacy laws.” He cites an article: “The [California Consumer Privacy Act, to go into effect at year end] was supposed to curb the purportedly abusive privacy practices of internet giants (like Google and Facebook) and data brokers. Unfortunately, the law overshot this goal; it reaches most businesses, online or off. Facebook may have been the target, but the local pizzeria will bear the law’s brunt.” Cost of compliance to these new mandates, which carries a $20 fine per incident for any internet hit from California are so onerous that anyone not in the same league as Facebook will simply fold.” “Well, if you are not in California and have no critical interests there, who cares if you run afoul of their law? What’s the worst that can happen?” I asked him. He continued to fret: “I doubt development companies like IPS or Wordpress have dedicated anything to this problem. They were probably hoping Google would make it go away....Would you risk life changing fines “per incident” to make even $100 monthly profit? High risk + Low Reward = Find a new hobby for most small time publishers/bloggers/forum owners.” Hmm. He’s not in California. But he doesn’t want to risk a trip to the mailbox to discover a letter: “Dear Mr Admin: It’s “Hasta la vista” for you, baby! Very truly yours Arnold Schwartsnegger - Governor emeritus of California” PS — I’ll be back! Now, I hang out there quite a bit on the forum of Admin. I have written substantial portions of text there latter reorganized to comprise parts of “Dear Mr. Putin - Jehovah’s Witnesses Write Russia,” and “TrueTom vs the Apostates!” I think his fears are overblown and that outfits such as he mentions will come up with some solution that they will use to justify a price increase—hopefully not too huge. Our worst dreams do come true, but they usually come true gradually, not all at once with a swipe of the pen. There will be a gateway at the entrance of blogs, I predict, where ones who wish to participate will waive away privacy rights. Already I see such things. Or (better yet) there will be developed a firewall to ban anyone from California, and then the outrage of those persons will cause lawmakers to backtrack. They do not want to be like John Jay, who negotiated a treaty with the British so unpopular that he later wrote he could ride the road from Philadelphia to Washington at night, his path lit solely by the burning effigies of himself hanging every 50 yards or so. Still, Admin is closer to this than me, and paying more attention. Maybe I underestimate the problem and his forum will indeed go down. If so, I will miss it. But I will also move on. I have used my time well there. Engaging with malcontents, villains, as well as some “avant-garde” brothers has served to hone both my writing and my thinking. In turn, I have used that to write larger collections that stand on their own, even if distribution methods themselves may change. Admin himself rebuked me long ago, and the experience served as a quirky introduction to “TrueTom vs the Apostates.” It finally dawned upon the troublesome “Foreigner” that Mr. Admin is not a Witness, and he said that now he realized it. He didn’t know that? Admin has said it often enough. “So here you come charging like a bull,” I told him, “upbraiding for apostasy anyone displaying the slightest deviation from the latest writing of the Witness organization, far in excess of what they would ever insist upon themselves, and you do it all before unbelievers, making Witnesses look ridiculous!” It is nearly as absurd as (I have seen it) the spectacle presented when brothers tell each other on Facebook that so-and-so is disfellowshipped, and so be careful not to associate with that one. Since you can’t really know what is real and what is rumor, one sister even proposed phoning an elder in the person’s home congregation to ask if so-and-so was in good standing or not. All this before just regular folk who know or care nothing of congregation matters. I responded that if I were that elder, I might comply once or twice, being caught off guard, but after that I would say: “Enough! I have a family, a job, congregation responsibilities, and a life! Now you want me to police the internet? Stay off social media if you have to ask such questions!” The internet is not the congregation and cannot be made to behave like one. Do not venture online if you cannot get your head around this. Another value to me of the forum (and online in general) that may tank—if it does, it does—is the discipline of addressing heavy, even controversial spiritual topics, knowing non-Witnesses might be listening in, and learning how to say heavy things without turning them off. I mean, they may not like the religion itself, and if such is the case, there is nothing to be done about it. But sometimes it is our own inartfulness that is the turn-off, and I have learned (relatively) how to be artful. It is no more that what Paul said: “To the Jews I became as a Jew in order to gain Jews; to those under law I became as under law, though I myself am not under law, in order to gain those under law. To those without law I became as without law, although I am not without law toward God but under law toward Christ, in order to gain those without law....I have become all things to people of all sorts, so that I might by all possible means save some.” (1 Corinthians 9:20-22) Most Witnesses are not good at this. When they engage with non-believers, it is strictly mundane, regarding business matters or the weather—OR they go into “witness mode” and tell them of the paradise, petting the animals, and how the Trinity is a crock. They don’t seem to know how to mix the two. I have learned to do that, and I credit sites like Admin’s with providing the needed practice. It is a good skill to develop, I think. We won’t be described as so “insular” should we ever pull of that trick. But I think we never will pull it off.. “Insularity” is too close to being “no part of the world”—a condition that must be so for Christians, per James 4:4, for example: “Adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is making himself an enemy of God.” If Admin’s worst fears are realized and his site goes down, other sites will go down for the same reason. That will kick out tons of “apostate” sites, and I have no problem with that. “I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it,” is the saying of Voltaire, not me. When it comes to trashing spiritual things, I’d just as soon they not say it. I can live with it should that become the new law. None of this will affect the official channel, JW.org, that is not into collecting data in the first place, and when they do for the sake of log-in accounts, I think even already they require applicants to yield on such newfound concerns—and you should hear the apostates howl over that! In fact, I think what Bethel will say with regard to the apostates who hang their hearts on the BITE model [Behavioral, Information, Thought, and Emotional “control”] is: “The idiots! They pressed their ‘victimization’ complaints to such absurd lengths that the asp came around to bite them in their own rear ends, knocking them all offline.” As for Admin, he will have to find himself a new hobby. They are offering pickleball lessons down at the Rec Center, I hear—a fine way for duffers to keep in shape. It wouldn’t hurt me were I to sign up myself, and maybe I will see him there. Maybe someday I will even see him at the Kingdom Hall—that is, if he did not get chased away by the hotheads on his own forum. After that, in search of new things to do, I may even start to tackle more of Mrs. Harley’s to-do list. Say—you don’t suppose that it is she who spoke to California lawmakers, do you?