TrueTomHarley
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Posts posted by TrueTomHarley
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6 minutes ago, Indiana said:
and do whatever he wants no matter if it is disrespectful to others
Possibly he is a spy for @Jack Ryan‘s friends, someone like the unstable woman that Jack issued a Special Report for when she was caught red-handed trying to destroy the life-work of her parents. When she was not lauded as a hero, as the friends assured her she would be, she subsequently became so depressed that took her own life. Or maybe they didn’t assure her that her parents wouldn’t be displeased. Maybe they just used her to further their own ends.
It’s back in the archives somewhere. You’ll never find it. Possibly @The Librarian (that old hen) can dig it out.
Ah! Here it is (my comment, to which you can go back to the post itself):
Think it through as to whether you actually want to be here, Indiana. I’m not saying you shouldn’t. But they get pretty vile here, some of them. There are some with absolutely no love for God here, and some who love him only if they can define him in their own image. They are not ones to be persuaded. Make sure you are up for it.
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2 hours ago, Indiana said:
I sat next to a disfellowshipped one who spent all the meeting recording videos and taking photos to share over Whatsapp, I
It is probably well if the attendants do not let him do this. Is he a pedophile? Does the 10-year old boy giving his first talk want to see himself on the World Wide Web?
Don’t let him tell you that Jesus wouldn’t be so unloving so as to make him shut off his camera.
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4 hours ago, Arauna said:
She was highly religious but feared JWs.
We do make uncomfortable people who don’t really care about spiritual things but somewhere in the back of their head is a nagging thought that they should.
And we make uncomfortable those who assume that we are there to change their religion—and yet their religion has not put them on equal footing to discuss intelligently the Bible—they know almost nothing about it. (Very strange, when you think about it, since most simply assume that the Book provides their faith’s underpinnings) With some, judging from their quick response, this discomfort is nearly to the point of panic—just like an ordinary joe might panic at the thought of an encounter with the time-share salesperson.
”I have my own religion, and I am very happy with it,” they hastily say.
”Well, I’m not going to ask you to change it, and if I do you can say ‘no’” is my reply. “It’s just conversation.”
I mean, they may not want to converse—more don’t than do— and if they don’t, that is fine, but I hate it to be for that reason.
One conversation with a college student was interesting enough that I proposed coming back. “To what end?” he said. Nobody had ever replied to me that way before. So I told him my ideal scenario—that over the course of 100 weeks, I would call back 100 times for 100 conversations—during which he would learn the Bible from front to back, and I would learn some things, too—and on visit #100 I would ask him if he wanted to become a Jehovah’s Witness and then he could say “no.” Once again, it’s just conversation.
I even asked him to play along on a practice session. I would ask him to become a Jehovah’s Witness, and he was to say “no.” He agreed to this.
”Would you like to become a Jehovah’s Witness like me?” I said. “No,” he replied. “See?” I said. “It’s easy. In the meantime you will learn the Bible and then you can better decide what you think about it”
This is called the Dickens approach and it is suggested by the ending of “Tale of Two Cities.” In that ending Sidney Carton visits Charles Darney, a prisoner in the Bastille being held for execution during the French Revolution. He has determined to smuggle him out. Of course, he can only do this if he takes his place and tricks the guards—it has already been noted in the novel that he remarkably resembles the man in physical appearance. One by one he suggests to Darnay exchanging articles of clothing. Each time Darnay protests—he has no idea what Carton is up to. “What do you think you’re doing?” he objects. “Do you think you can break me out? It’s not possible to escape from here.”
Each time Carton answers: “Did I say anything about escape? Wait until I mention escape and then say “no.” In this way he persuades the man to swap clothes, as though to humor him, though he knows not why.
A strict application of the Dickens method in field service necessitates saying: “Did I say anything about you changing your religion? Wait until I ask that and then say “no.” I have done this, but it’s a little easier to phrase it as I did initially: “Well, I’m not going to ask you to change your religion, and if I do you can say ‘no.’” It comes across as less of a rebuke.
It is important that your householder has not actually read “Tale of Two Cities,” for if he has, he may recall that after the clothing exchange is completed, Carton chloroform’s Darnay, calls the guard to say that his visiting friend was overcome by emotion and has fainted, and requests that he be carried out to the waiting carriage. If the householder points that out, tell him that you do not intend to copy that part of the ending—strictly speaking, that would require you to take his place and become a Catholic, Muslim, or Hindu, and to assume his car and house payment, which may be substantial.
It is a favorite book of mine. Ruse completed, Carton later takes his place in the guillotine lineup. He is giving his life in behalf of his friend, and several times Jesus’ words are quoted as inspiration: “No man has love greater than this, that someone should surrender his life in behalf of his friends.” (John 15:13) Just before him in line is a scared 12-year old girl. She is willing to “die for her country” if it has been decreed that she must, but she cannot understand just how she could actually have been deemed to be such a threat to it. Her eyes widen as she discovers that her companion is not actually Darnay, but is someone giving his life for that man. Carton offers to take her hand, and thereby she finds the courage to face the terrible blade.
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18 hours ago, Jack Ryan said:
The Bible does not condemn the use of concubines
There is something so childish about this complaint, as though Jack cannot imagine anything other than a grade-school moral primer, as though he is a petulant child himself.
The Bible is a history of persons and their relationships with God. Some sought him. Some fled him. Some ignored him. Some never knew him. The history is a blend of each of these poles.
If God has smashed everything that was wrong from Cain and Abel’s time on, we would not be here to talk about it.
1 hour ago, Ray Devereaux said:The Hebrew loan word
pilegesh (“concubine”) is notably non-Semitic (not linguisticThanks to Ray the Newbie for putting some meat on the bones that Jack hoped to shock everyone with.
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8 minutes ago, JW Insider said:
It doesn't sound like the couple is complaining about this, only the person contributing this experience
I take for granted that there will be exaggerating in such complaints. There always is.
10 minutes ago, JW Insider said:I have given a couple of wedding talks and I always let the couple know
Oddly, while I have given many funeral talks, I have never given a wedding talk. The rationale may be: “Well, he’s dead. How much damage can TrueTom do?”
12 minutes ago, JW Insider said:The rest of the experience is pretty bad, however.
I would never argue that the brothers are bastions of reasonableness at all times.
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3 minutes ago, JW Insider said:
I could never do it for the same reasons on mundane things. But there should be nothing wrong with the use of known sales techniques based on our own enthusiasm for a product when, in this case, we really do know the product is "pearl of great price" that truly is worth more than this life itself, and yet it's also free.
On Saturday mornings, we even offer it on sale.
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12 hours ago, Jack Ryan said:
However they requested an elder to give the wedding ceremony talk (and I call it a talk because it was 95% scriptures and 5% about the couple) and they invited mostly JWs aside from their families.
If you do not talk about scriptures during a wedding talk, exactly what do you talk about? The undying love of the couple? Then what do you talk about a few years down the road at the divorce hearing?
There is such a thing as being shallow.
To spend time considering the instruction guide for the relationship about to be entered into does not seem such a waste of time, even if the whiney twenty-something couldn’t see it that way. It might better ensure the marriage’s success.
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19 hours ago, JW Insider said:
We have Halls instead of Churches. We give door to door presentations, and practice them with demonstrations, and there are dozens of small examples th
To the extent that brothers try to model their ministry or enhance it with sales techniques, they usually make for poor teachers. I think it is because they are primarily concerned about making the sale, and they are unable to step out of that mindset.
Yes, I know that the sales department will try to manipulate consciousness so that the salesperson really, truly, believes that the customer cannot live without what he has to offer.
It is nothing that I have ever been able to buy into. A few times in my life I toyed with sales, but always what sunk me was that in the back of my mind I was always thinking: “Why would anyone waste their money on this?”
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9 hours ago, Jack Ryan said:
Not so fast Mr. Librarian!
That old hen
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45 minutes ago, JW Insider said:
In Federer's game, I learned that "derision is a swear at a racket."
Oh, for crying out loud. My bad. I “took my eye off the ball” and actually thought you were at a convention.
35 minutes ago, Anna said:That reminds me, we haven't done convention resolutions for a while
“Brothers!!! Let us resolve not to be dumbbells like TrueTom!”
- Anna and JW Insider
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11 minutes ago, JW Insider said:
And I got to listen to Sister Selena Williams give her experiences.
Really?
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Russian scholars—they are awfully smart over there—found extremism in an Old Testament phrase in the course of building a case against Jehovah’s Witnesses. It was not in the New World Translation—that entire work has been declared extremist and is therefore shelved. It is a passage found in any Bible, even the one used by the Russian Orthodox Church.
The offending verse is Psalm 37:29 [36:29 in Eastern Bibles]: “The righteous will inherit the earth and will live in it forever.”
This verse is actually a threat toward “unrighteous persons,” the experts discerned. It is “about dismissiveness (contempt, aggression) toward a group of persons on the basis of religious affiliation.” It furthers the “‘propaganda of inferiority’ on the basis of religious identity.”
In other words, they are sticking up for the unrighteous in that land. “Well—they’re people, too,” is their stroke of wisdom. If the “righteous” are to be favored with inheriting the earth and living there forever, then the unrighteous should be there, too.
It is breathtakingly stupid reasoning, and yet it is the reasoning that carries the day in Russia. But we should not laugh at it, because it is more evil than stupid, and it is the work of opposers who know what they are doing and will do it here when the time is right. The reasoning is the same—it is only more unmasked in Russia than elsewhere, but it ought to serve as a heads-up for elsewhere.
In both places it is the reasoning of those who hate God. They do not hate him so long as He knows His place. If He allows societal trends and critical thinking to carry the day, He is welcome, but only then. If He tries impose upon people His own standards of “righteousness,” He is not. If He allows the will of the people to prevail, He is welcome. If He says, as in John 6:45: “They will all be taught be Jehovah,” He is not—unless He means that the will of the people is the will of Jehovah. He should know that His role is to sit in the back seat and keep His mouth shut.
The entire warfare of opponents denouncing disfellowshipping is a reflection of their frustration at having the window slammed shut on their fingers as they try to break into the house with their new and improved morality—morality that is not God’s. They are livid that they cannot do that, and so they rail against the tool that thwarts them, even trying to declare it illegal.
The book “Secular Faith - How Culture Has Trumped Religion in American Politics” attempts to reassure its secular audience through examining the changing moral stands of churches on five key issues. The book points out that today’s church members have more in common with atheists than they do with members of their own denominations from decades past. Essentially, the reassurance to those who would mold societal views is: “Don’t worry about it. They will come around. They always do. It may take a bit longer, but it is inevitable.” Jehovah’s Witnesses have thwarted this model by not coming around. Disfellowshipping—the ability to expel those who refuse to conform to the conduct and speech that they signed on for—is their trump card. It is a last-ditch method of discipline, when all else has failed, to ensure that the Christian congregation remains true to its underpinnings, something that cannot happen without the trump card held in reserve—or at least it never has happened. (See post here)
It is a God-ordained tool from the One who knows humankind better than they do themselves. Actually, humans know it well, too, but they forget it when it stands in their way. If they did not know it, there would be no such thing as advertising—the ultimate manipulative device founded on the premise that humans can be swayed any which way given sufficient propaganda. Corporate interests would not pour billions into advertising if they were not convinced human behavior could be molded. “We made Miller the number two selling brand in the country, and everybody said: ‘Nobody will drink that stuff,’” said Mickey Spillane.
“Righteousness” is an antiquated term for those peddling a new morality and a trashing the traditional one. The term is a threat to them. It is a term that is no longer allowed in Russia, but how far behind can the West be? Acceptable human conduct should be determined by group norm, not imposed by some Bully from above, it increasingly says. The war against disfellowshipping is at root a manisfestion of those who would fight against God.
Says the apostle Peter: “For the time that has passed by is sufficient for you to have worked out the will of the nations when you proceeded in deeds of loose conduct, lusts, excesses with wine, revelries, drinking matches, and illegal idolatries. Because you do not continue running with them in this course to the same low sink of debauchery, they are puzzled and go on speaking abusively of you.” (1 Peter 4:3-4)
They do speak that way. But as the discordant ones accumulate in the “low sink of debauchery,” they finally are emboldened to say as well: “Water’s fine here in the low sink! Who are you to judge?” The qualities Peter speaks of are simply not the anathema that they once were. Some are openly embraced.
So “righteousness” as defined by a God is an insult. To speak of a world where righteousness will prevail is extremist in Russia, and therefore illegal. For now, in the West, it is just gauche and small-minded. That is changing. If it truly is that God will allow only the righteous in the new world of his making, then anyone on His side will do whatever they can to be that way. Opponents today want to make that illegal, or at least they want to make illegal the means to do it.
The climate is not just right for opposers here to declare that the righteous inheriting the earth is extremist, as they have in Russia, but that is what many want to do—and it will likely reach that point one day. Should it happen, it will be a development that is on script, and so thereby can be said to be okay. It will not be unexpected. The miscreants are angling for it now.
Nikolai Gordienko, of the Herzen Russian State University in St. Petersburg, once stated: “When the experts accuse Jehovah’s Witnesses for their teachings, they do not realize that they are actually making accusations against the Bible.” Jehovah’s Witnesses represent it. They practice it as best they can. The gloves have come off in Russia. They came off long ago with regard to human rights, but now they also come off with regard to the intent of Witness persecution there. It is not Witnesses that are opposed. It is God who is opposed—the Witnesses are just the middlemen who represent him.
Gamaliel cautioned religious leaders in the first century regarding Christians: “Do not meddle with these men, but let them alone. For if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown; but if it is from God, you will not be able to overthrow them. Otherwise, you may even be found fighters against God himself.” That’s exactly who is in the crosshairs of opponents today—who is He to tell us what is righteous? they glower. Banning the Witness organization was not enough for those opponents in Russia. Banning the New World Translation was also not enough, for the same verses hateful to those demanding moral relevance are found in any translation of the Bible.
How far will opponents get in their quest to enlist the world’s sympathy that they got kicked out of a religion for refusing to abide by the rules—in essence, for refusing to be “righteous?” Time will tell, but until the Lord intervenes, the playing field is tilted their way. The individual rights of those who would kick over the traces garners popular support. The individual rights of those who would impose upon themselves a force greater than they to safeguard against their own weaknesses means nothing.
During Soviet times, dissidents stated that the underlying attitude of authorities was that they didn’t really care if you believed their lie or not, so long as you knuckled under to their power to define reality. Declaring the Psalm extremist—“The righteous ones will inherit the earth and they will live in it forever”—is an example of the pattern reasserting itself: “Yes, it is ridiculous, but who cares? It is what we say it is.”
In the West it is still deemed necessary to believe the lie—that the “offenses” of the people who endeavor to represent God are the objection, and not God himself. That can be expected to change. The offenses are blown up and misrepresented, but they are not, in most cases, untrue. They are, however, not the issues to watch. The issues to watch are those relating to God’s purpose to establish an earth in which righteousness prevails.
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3 hours ago, Jack Ryan said:
my, how this website has grown
It is almost entirely you and your friends. I am surprised at how few actual Witnesses are here.
Your other points are all nonsense, too. Next you’ll be railing at that materialistic Jesus for that fine seamless garment he wore.
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29 minutes ago, Jack Ryan said:
As the wealth of the Van Halen brothers grew, I couldn’t help but wonder whether they had done everything they could to help their mother.
All Junior would have had to have done was to become A Witness himself—like Prince did. Then she would meet many, see for herself how nice they were, and see that her own fears were nonsense.
How hard could it have been? He didn’t even have a beard to shave off.
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Oh, that video of me doing despicable things?It is a deep fake.People, can we move on now?What do you mean, “last days?” What on earth is wrong with you? We almost have this planet fixed. Jack is putting the finishing touches on it right now.
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6 hours ago, Arauna said:
Amazon removes books from their list which does not please the new agenda under far left pressure
If you put it on Smashwords where I have put mine, you will not have that problem. I will download it, too.
6 hours ago, Arauna said:... I do as much preaching as I can.
If I was to choose my own personal eternal year text, it might be: “Seek first the kingdom and all these other things will be added to you.”
6 hours ago, Arauna said:No time now to make money and be comfortable.
If I was to choose another it might be: “Stop being anxious about your lives as to what you will eat and what you will drink.” I can hear Brother Morris reiterating it now—from the Atlanta Regional Convention of 2016: “Just...stop it!” like you would tell a child—planting the idea that it is not uncontrollable.
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Every NT writer wrote about opposition and apostasy. If it happened then, it should happen now. What if there was no opposition today? Wouldn’t you have to wonder why?
Search out JWs on social media and you find a barrage of criticism. Search out most other religion and you simply find standard theological content. It should be taken as more evidence that what Witnesses have is the truth. It would not be so determinedly opposed were that not the case.
Since Witnesses do not seek to evade taxes, they pay into social & police services to a greater proportion than most groups. Since they put into practice Bible principles that improve lives, they draw upon those services to a much lesser degree. THAT is the basis that they would qualify for any charitable exemptions that exist. That is the reason that such exemption was offered to religious institutions in the first place—the rationale that by improving the lives of those they touch, they take strain off the institutions trying to govern people
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1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:
REAL MEN don't use STUN, or anything less.
I caught a little bit of a rerun, the one in which the Star Trek crew and a race of reptile-like aliens (who look like they wouldn’t be able to invent a rollerskate, much less a starship) were firing phasers at one another in the territory of the Holierthanthous. The Holierthanthous zapped Kirk and the Chief Reptile down to some deserted planet where they could fight it out mano-to-repto, winner take all. Kirk reinvented dynamite, as I recall, to disable the green goon.
Probably you were glued to your set for that one.
Having clobbered the reptile, he was about to finish him off, but then declined to do it, showing mercy. At that the Holierthanthous intervened once more to commend him for his application of Bible principles, and to send both ships on their merry way.
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I am glad that I blocked the trolls when I did. If it was hard to make them behave before, it would be like interrupting an orgasm today;
It is just so ironic—I mean, here is the example I just read in today’s news:
The pattern is always the same. It is the leaders that are accused of the abuse. There is no mechanism for uncovering abuse of the members, and when a parishioner is charged with CSA it is as much a surprise to the church minister as to the public.
Only with JWs is it their own internal investigation of wrongdoing that uncovers it among some members. It is rare for leaders to be the perpetrators, as is common anywhere. Yet they are the ones in the crosshairs. This is why @Arauna’s comments are spot-on as to perspective and greater goal.
[edit] And here is another one. Just in today’s feed:
Again, it is the leaders. It is always the leaders. Only with JWs is it the follows, and the leaders have tried to do something about it. This is why it is not a stretch to frame this specific targeting of Witnesses as an assault on religion that would attempt to police its own. Religion is not supposed to do that in this modern irreligious world. It is not supposed to be “no part of the world.” It is, if it is to be allowed to exist, to be fully part of this world.
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3 hours ago, ComfortMyPeople said:
Well, regarding the "hen" expression, be sure, it's not spanish. And I have no idea about the use billythekid is trying
I suppose that now is not the proper time to point out that I never refer to the Librarian without appending “that old hen.”
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59 minutes ago, JW Insider said:
They were afraid he might take A-FENCE!
Oh dear.
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31 minutes ago, JW Insider said:
@TrueTomHarley, You know why the Philistines at Gaza were so afraid when Samson carried off the doors of the city gate and two posts to the top of a mountain?
Not specifically (hit me) but when I introduce my daughter’s dog by the same name, I point out that he is not the Samson who pushes apart the pillars. Instead, he is the Samson who pees on them.
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41 minutes ago, JW Insider said:
Did it happen "in the big inning"?
I felt quite privileged to be included in this crew, for I was new as a Witness, and I was just there for a brief visit. Of course, what was needed was people who did not already have an assignment, but even so....
Four of the six were just-graduated Gilead students awaiting their assignments. For the longest time I thought that David Splane had been one of them. But as best I can recall now, it was more a name like “Slutze.” I remember him relating a tale of how his Bible student, an elderly woman from a fundamentalist background, raised her hand to give her first comment, and he had braced for the worst. For good reason, as it turns out:
”I just want to thank JEEhovah God for sending His servant DAVID SLUTZE to teach me more accurately His Holy way!”
David slunk into his seat so low they had to vacuum him up later.
!?Letter Writing Campaign appealing to JWs?!
in Topics
Posted
This is too much. It really is.
One year Jehovah’s Witnesses pull the world postal system’s bacon out of the fire by purchasing millions of stamps for letters to the Bear.
The next year their lunatic opposers do the same with letters to HQ!
Citizens of the world owe a huge debt to JWs. Without them, the price of a postage stamp would now be $2.30.
And the corker of it is, soon @James Thomas Rook Jr. will be firing off post after taunting post about how at Bethel they can warm themselves those cold upstate nights with boxcars full of letters to toss in the furnace!