TrueTomHarley

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

Wow.

Take note, @The Librarian. Take a screenshot. Save it for posterity. Show it to your grandchildren.

JWI made a comment and he only used ONE WORD!

I’ve heard of turning over a new leaf before, but this takes it to a whole ‘nother level.

”There were too many...um...uh....notes,” the prince told Mozart.

Well, that’s a new one. I know that AI is smart, but has it even adjusted to my being religious?

What must I do to be one of the chosen?

Wait. My bad. I misread it. It is me who has to choose, (despite being on this network forever) not be chosen. I was about to ask @Witness.

MSFT should be a penny stock.

5 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

If you are not willing to YOU PERSONALLY do this ... and take a decade, or 20 years, or the rest of your life ... then your opinions will be based on FAITH .... NOT SCIENCE.

Okay. Got it. Let me pencil that in the calendar.

3 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

In order for anyone to debate global warming, they would at least need to know the basic. 

I suggest one start with the Jerry Reed song, When You’re Hot, You’re Hot:

On ‎3‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 12:24 AM, BillyTheKid46 said:

I won’t offer scripture since it is meaningless according to TTH in this forum. I expect the same in return. Only “witness” is allowed to enter a barrage of Biblical citations without the condemnation of TTH. It offends him seeing it from others.

Oh, stuff it, Billy. I can outlast you on this. I am like a hurricane that gathers strength over warm water. I am every bit as crazy as you, only set on a more pleasant and peacemaking course. I write in a more appealing manner. There is only so far one can go in telling everyone else to EDUCATE themselves if they are not too UNINTELLIGENT so as to avoid revealing how APOSTATE they are. I have never detected an ounce of humility in any of your writing. Before you make like a theocratic POTUS set to drain the Internet swamp, you should repent and cultivate some.

Let's go back to what you proposed before in another persona: "You keep out of my way and I'll keep out of yours."

You also may have noticed, @James Thomas Rook Jr., that Scott Adams is not so monolithic on this issue as his work suggests. Or perhaps he is doing some reexamination. On Twitter, he has been playing Devil's advocate with his followers lately (some of whom have told him to knock it off), advancing many of the ideas that @JW Insider is advancing.

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

In the big red "Revelation" book, circa 15 or so years ago, it mentioned as an aside that Sir Isaac Newton may have been one of the Anointed. This sparked me reading two very large biographies on his life, and what impressed me the most was the fact that he never published anything without rigorous proof.

What impressed me was that he wrote more about God than about math and science combined.

 

2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING MANKIND CAN DO TO MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER.

I don't know why this would be so. Nor do I think this is among the things that you have proved with your FACTS. You may have proved other things, but not this one. This is opinion.

JWI produces different facts to go toe to toe with you. Is he wrong? He may well be, but please don't tell me he is uninformed.

14 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

You [TTH] are like a feather, blowing in the wind ... wishing that EVERYBODY was as uninformed, wrong, and wishy-washy as you are.

The reason that I only weigh in mildly is that I see that people I respect fall both ways on this. It is irrelevant to me since there is nothing I can do about it, and I live frugally enough that were climate change an indisputable fact, I would still be more part of the solution than part of the problem. It is not the core issue for Christians. God will fix it. To that extent, @Srecko Sostar's objection about JWs is right.

Where it is wrong is in his assumption that "involved" Jehovah's Witnesses would all come down on his side. They would not. They would divide, and the net effect would be no different that what is now. In fact, (here is another scenario that works against his argument--not entirely consistent with the first one I offered) since JWs are largely the "uneducated," they will not trust the harangue's of the "elite"on this matter, since they have learned from experience that such harangues are rarely in their own interests and usually benefits those elites that issue them.

2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

When all is said and done ... you and Billy ARE my soul brothers, and I would defend you both with my life if necessary. 

Because you behaved and said good things and not bad things to me and have never shared pointers on how to construct a nuclear bomb on the theory that the public has the right to know, unlike some partipants here, I will even throw you a bone:

Someone on Twitter was grumbling about how they kept interrupting golf yesterday with the results of the Mueller investigation. “Golf is too important to be continually interrupted with this rubbish!” he said.

I replied: “You are looking at this all wrong. It was golf. It was a huge “FORE!’ to accusers of the POTUS.”

Some things are going your way, aren’t they?

Hey, you old blockhead @James Thomas Rook Jr., you with a mind of concrete:

"All mixed up and firmly set."

6 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

JWI was, and is correct in his statement that I know more about the subject than he does ... and more to the point, I can PROVE my conclusions.

He probably just yielded to your intransigence. At any rate, despite all of your proof, you failed to convince him.

Actually, I tend to fall into your camp on this and would fall into it more firmly were it the core issue today. But it's not. People on both sides pound each other relentlessly over the issue and fail to convince. So I stop short of going the extra mile required to affirm in my own mind that it is as you say. I put my eggs in another basket.

It is certainly is a political issue, as you say, and as JWI says it is not. Rephrase it slightly, and even he will agree: it is certainly an issue that is politicized. Yes, I know of the sneaky globalist statements that they are using it to drive idealogical change. That makes sense to me. But it is not my main cause. I already have a main cause. 

If humans are not ruining the earth by climate change, it is not as though they are too responsible ever to ruin it. It is also not as though they are not ruining it, just by other means. These days, I must restrain myself from being a full-time zealot, not against climate change views, but against vaccine ones. I think it very likely that there are a host of ills to be laid at their feet and when those ills occur, they are more catastrophic and more immediate than climate change. 

It is the same story of demonization and misportrayal as with other contentious issues. Follow it via Twitter or somewhere else and you find that the "anti-vax" side - (they hate that label and charge, I think correctly, that it is deliberately assigned so as to portray them as loonies, since very few of them are anti ALL vaccines) come off as exceedingly well-informed and reasonable, not at all as the hysterical nuts portrayed by the other side.

Don't go against me on this, you calcified blockhead. I will not yield so readily on this one as I will on the climate.

7 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

You are like a feather, blowing in the wind ... wishing that EVERYBODY was as uninformed, wrong, and wishy-washy as you are.

You do not keep up, do you? No need to insult, "forcing" me to follow suit, We are now soul brothers, according to Billy. Act like it, please .

On ‎3‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 6:15 PM, JW Insider said:

I have no problem if JTR is drawn into a discussion on the topic, because I'm sure he knows more than I do about it. 

He does not know more about it than you. He knows things about it that you do not.

And you do not know more about it than he. You know things about it that he does not.

It is due to the reality of news sources that do not cover the same facts, each ignoring what does not fit into its prevailing narrative.

I can best explain it by referring to a topic I have stronger feelings about. I am undecided about climate change. As stated, the biggest factor for it, in my view, is that the organization has said it is devoting so much more to disaster relief.

Not surprisingly, when a white police officer shoots a black suspect, the event is widely covered. Other shootings are not so widely covered. Sometimes they are barely mentioned. Thus comes the perception that white officers are racist and hostile to blacks. Yet a study of the Philadelphia police force during the Obama administration found the statistics revealed no significant aberrations with regard to race. In fact, the stats revealed that black officers were slightly more likely to shoot black suspects than were white officers. They were slightly more likely to experience "threat misperception," was the phrase. 

So a picture emerges via media that does not reflect the whole truth. It even serves to create a wrong impression. Does such a thing happen with regard to climate change? That recent year when major hurricanes hit Florida and Texas? It was pronounced significant evidence of global warming. Yet the total number of hurricanes that year was abnormally low. Do we see a weather version of  "If it bleeds, it leads?"

Everyone must do something to sort through the polarized information streams. My own strategy is that, whenever I follow anything on Twitter, I make it a point to also follow its polar opposite. In this way, there are two or three things popularly regarded as almost conspiracy theories that I have come to regard as quite likely. It is not the case that all the scientists are on the side of climate change. What happens is the same as what happens during physical warfare: efforts to dehumanize the enemy. The climate change scientists declare the other scientists not scientists at all, because if they were scientists they would come on board with climate change.

If you follow both sides on Twitter you find the 'conspiracy' side well argued, well researched, with abundant studies, data, facts to support statements made. They do not at all come across as the unhinged crackpots they are portrayed as. The pro side tends to be more like.....like....well, like Billy, who froths that the matter is "settled" and that only a science apostate would contradict "established science." I don't think that it is settled at all.

Recently a disheartening Pew report related that today's reality goes beyond people not agreeing on the facts. Today's reality is that people do not agree on what the facts are. With no common starting point they can be no agreement. It is very different to get to the bottom of anything, and usually one can identify a person's primary opinions by the news sources he takes in. They report on different things.

 

25 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Well TTH, if you will be in same situation to tell this words again, to someone else as advice/plead, Please, DO NOT. 

I regretted it almost the moment I sent it. Who am I to interject myself? Maybe I should have taken it back, but I usually do not delete things once I've put them out there. I try to dig myself out of the mess I've made later. Ideally, I think it through first. In this case, I shot myself in the foot.

28 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

It is very Interesting fact how i stopped to go on meetings from 1 January 2015 and not giving reports about field service. Not single telephone call for some 6 months

It is what it is. No one is saying that anyone is proud about it. That being said:

29 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Not single telephone call for some 6 months, to say simple hello or call for coffee - to show some "brotherly love" (which i probably would not accept anyway) 

Well, they're people too. Maybe if you "probably would not accept anyway" they somehow had a clue that would be the case. It isn't easy stepping into a situation that you know will be unpleasant, especially if you have many other things that are pleasant that you can occupy yourself with.

 

34 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

oh dear god, you are the people who will shun and ignore me, you are the people who told congregation to destroy my Letter and to stop have anything with me, and now you have nerve to warn me to not make some trouble to her. 

It may not be wrong to look at it that way, but that does not mean it is helpful.

It might be that if you do "make trouble" for her, she will go your way. Or it might be that she will break and/or that your marriage will blow up. Would you prefer that? Take it as real concern for her on their part, and even for you that you do not make what would have to have been a strained marital relationship 10 times worse.

 

42 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

You are not "extremist" in that sense.           

OK. It is a good word, I think. If you notice, my word to you was also a good word. I said that she probably loves you "with good reason."

Don't misunderstand. Spiritually speaking, I think you have traded in the diamonds for the turds, but that does not mean that I dislike you personally (though - I admit it - at times I have).

5 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

My wife is JW but talking nothing about "spiritual" things, and that  it is

Well, don’t give her a hard time, whatever you do. Outside of spiritual things, she probably loves you, and I suspect with good reason.

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Old good charity works, volunteering. More work less talk, i agree!

From the photos I see, much work gets done.

Whereas the meme in the US is that of a “Men Working” sign that spotlights 1 man digging a ditch and 5 leaning on their shovels.

How is it out there where you are?

15 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

sorry for my  haha to your post, but have to ask you, what "gender" issue have with this topic, and what my position on "gender" issue (if i have any position at all) have with this what i am thinking about JW and their passivity on climate movements in society?

Here you are, Srecko. You’ll be heralding this in no time at all, perhaps already.

The point is that your people divide up readily with regard to every new thing. Our people don’t. It would b the same with regard to climate change if our people were to join your people.

 

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

What does this all have with involvement, participation of JW Church and their members in activity about Environment and Climate on Earth? :)) 

It Russia, congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses do perform cleanups of public areas. They do it all the time. Often they ask city or town authorities for territories most in need of it.

If you remember, there was publicity regarding Dennis Christensen that one of the last things he did as a free man was take part in such a cleanup. Photos were supplied, one a group photo and one of he alone hauling a bag of trash out of the river.

In ‘Dear Mr. Putin.....’ I floated the idea that if such ever caught on in the US, it would be exactly the opposite of what the Russian government alleges. It would be an example of Russian Witnesses telling Americans Witnesses what to do rather than the reverse. 

It does sort of dovetail with the core mission, doesn’t it? And it is hard to believe that such activity would not provide the setting for some explanation of the good news.

 

Did @The Librarian (that old hen) forget to pay her light bill?

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

perhaps it's a good idea for me to just limit my comments to non-JW topics 

I scored a point, pleasantly surprising even myself, but it is not be to seen as a rebuke across the board. Time in the penalty box is okay, but it is not time imposed by me.

Besides, I only did it to court Billy's approval, and you saw how that went.  

I will go further to suggest to Srecko that if he succeeded in his goal of getting Witnesses off their Kingdom script, he would be hurting his own cause. 

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

only about 0 percent of such scientists believe that significant "global warming" does not exist. 

 

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

But even the majority of persons in this country more honestly answer "I don't know" when typical climate change questions are asked. 

So.  All scientists believe it.  Most other persons say "I don't know."

In other words, they're not buying it. Why? Can it be that it is not pushed enough? The average media outlet is 100% behind it and does not miss an opportunity to educate. Yet still they say "I don't know." 

I suggest that many of these who say "I don't know" actually would say "Hogwash" but for fear of taking a stand against scientists and risk being called stupid. Many say it anyhow.

Now, for the most part, I think that Jehovah's Witnesses do believe in climate change. Why? Because the organization has said it is spending several times the amount for disaster relief as it did a few years ago. Though Srecko is right that Witnesses are not activists, they will still, in their ministry, help out his cause by educating people about it. When the topic comes up, they will agree with global warming, and are likely to even bring it up themselves as the prime example of "man's ruining the earth."

But if Srecko's dream came true and they stopped being Witnesses, they would lose this "proof" of climate change.  They would divide into some camps that support and some that say "I don't know" and some that say "Hogwash." But wouldn't the example of non-Witness charities also pleading for more money take the place of the Witness organization saying is spends more on disaster relief? No, because they always plead for more money, irrespective of need, at least such is the popular perception. 

So Srecko hurts his cause by pulling Witnesses away.

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

sorry for my  haha to your post, but have to ask you, what "gender" issue have with this topic, and what my position on "gender" issue (if i have any position at all) have with this what i am thinking about JW and their passivity on climate movements in society?

You should be able to see this. In the world that I belong to, no one believes it. In the enlightened world you belong to, some do. Since it is being pushed mightily in the US by those most respected - media and educators - more and more in your world will come to believe it. Of course, I mean gender fluidity in general, and take the 57 genders as only the most extreme example, seen as ridiculous by most people. But it is seen ridiculous by ALL people trained by Bible principles, whereas the world you have chosen will warm to it more and more.

Transfer the principle to climate change, and it means that our people are united and your people are not. JWs are now a monolithic block. They will not remain so if you sever them from their God. Some will think that you are right and help you. Some will think that you are wrong and work against you. In short, our people can work on goals effectively because we are not fighting others of our people. That cannot be said of your people.

18 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

WT publications openly teaching members to not be active in any social, ......etc. involvement for Changing this World (only when freedom of speech and religion is issue) 

You're just huffy that they are no part of the world and you read that separation as judgement of you. As pointed out above, their stand regarding your cause is a mildly supportive factor and best and a non-factor at worst.

 

 

11 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

This is pretentious and belong to arrogant statement - in my opinion :))).

If it is pretentious and arrogant, it certainly is no less so than your position. You assume with your newfound air of enlightened wisdom that if Jehovah's Witnesses "got involved" as you think they should, they would all say: "You know, that Srecko is right! Let's roll up our sleeves, pitch in and help him save the planet!" In fact, they would simple divide roughly 50/50 on the issue and fight each other to a standstill.

Do you think that you have stepped into an arena where there is unity? You haven't. We have. Do you think you are in a place where what you want done will be done? You're not. We are. Don't come here lecturing people about pretentiousness and arrogance. Your people are the ones who cannot agree on how many genders there are.

The world splits down the middle on climate change. The very reason it is called 'climate change' rather than the old term 'global warming' is because is because proponents got frustrated with the data not coming in as they thought it would. There have been several instances of fraud on that account so as to present a picture that the data does not back up. Europe is real keen on the climate change. Also Australia and Canada. But everyone else is lukewarm at best and some are opposed, including the current administrations of both the US and Russia.

Just ask @James Thomas Rook Jr. about it. (But tell @JW Insiderto stay away) They fought like cats and dogs over it once on this forum. So do you think that if they abandoned the Witness position to hold hands with you they would suddenly do a Kumbaya? No! They would fight like cats and dogs just on a bigger forum.

 

 

 

I will add the following soon to Dear Mr. Putin - Jehovah's Witnesses Write Russia. If anyone wants to comment, I will be grateful. This will include (and welcome) corrections in spelling/grammar. Not that it will not be proofread first, but there is still a lot that can get though.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

At 6:15 AM on February 15, 2019, Timofei Zhukov and his wife were awakened by furious pounding on the door, as though someone would break it down. They didn’t answer and the pounding ceased. Half an hour later their balcony door was broken down. Several riot police stormed into the room. Zhukov was kicked, cuffed, and his head slammed against the wall—'the blood is still on the wallpaper,’ he later told Kommersant, the business magazine. His wife cried in alarm and was cursed for her trouble.¹

It was part of a sting operation that netted 40 of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Surgut, Siberia—a major dark turn of events that nobody had anticipated. Twelve officers jumped from three vehicles pulled over to detain 2 Witnesses who were walking alongside the street.²

Mr. Zhukov was not tortured at the police station, but he did not escape hearing the screams of those seven Witnesses who were—music turned up loud to mask the sounds, but there was no masking them. He is a lawyer, as it turns out, who once served as assistant prosecutor in the city, and now is legal advisor to a construction firm. “Please register the exact time. Somebody is being beaten here,” he shouted. An FSB agent entered the room and said, “Don’t worry, they do not beat anyone here”—there was a drug addict within who was screaming his head off, he was told. And the former prosecutor believed it, only discovering the truth later from his brothers who had been on the other side of the door. He told the magazine that “until recently, he could not believe that law enforcement officers could torture believers.”

Though cuffed for three hours while his home was searched and beaten on his legs whenever they were judged to be insufficiently far apart, the handcuffs were removed for his escort to the waiting vehicle. “We won’t scare people,” he was told. He answered back that he preferred to wear them, for the neighbors had known him his entire life and were in good position to know whether he was a criminal or not. But off they came, and he was placed into the van—not one that said Police but one that bore the markings ‘Northern Roadway,’ as though off for a friendly commiseration with his former colleagues in law, though his smashed-in apartment balcony must have suggested otherwise.

They must have hoped to have kept it under wraps. They must have hoped to cast a pall upon the Witness community, but otherwise not suffer their deeds to see the light of day. How else can one account for such a hurried and stupid explanation, shortly thereafter, that the Witnesses had beaten themselves up (as only a sect member could do) to thwart the police investigation? “After the arrest and searches, they, under the direction of the lawyers who arrived in Surgut, got together and during the meeting struck each other, which could then be presented as evidence of torture,” one “insider” said, for ura.ru. “Well-known lawyers who specialize in representing the interests of the Jehovists throughout the country are involved in the case. Services each cost 5 million rubles. The main task is to ruin the criminal case, to attract public attention.”³ Of course! They must have figured that they had to say something, and quickly, for the accounts of the victims along with undeniable photo evidence⁴ were promptly showcased throughout the world, and the European Court of Human Rights demanded independent investigation.⁵

Local hospitals told the released victims that would be treated for their injuries, but that those injuries would not be documented.⁶ Plainly, they had been leaned upon by someone. Surgut, as determined by a rough atlas survey, is the 67^th most populous city in Russia. Perhaps authorities hoped there wouldn’t be much of any support, legal or otherwise, for Witnesses way out there, instead of one of the victims actually being a lawyer. Another victim said one agent had told him: “We had to specifically come from Moscow for this.”⁷ Why couldn’t he have just stayed in Moscow, where Jehovah’s Witnesses surely are more numerous and are having just as great a challenge coping with the Orwellian law that says you can be a Jehovah’s Witness just so long as you do not do any of the things Jehovah’s Witnesses do, which apparently includes existing? No, to this writer, this episode has the earmarks of a deed meant to be done in a remote corner that unexpectedly turned out to be a world stage, necessitating a hasty (and clumsy) response.

Reported Znak.com: “The believers think that all of this was done with just one goal—to beat out "evidence necessary to the investigation" from those who had decided to exercise their right granted by the Russian constitution not to provide evidence against themselves and their associates.” A committee spokesman in the Khanty-Mansi region, Oleg Menshikh, told TASS news agency on February 20 that no law had been violated during the interrogations. “Nobody tortured them,” he said. “There was no physical or psychological pressure on them.”⁵ But two days later there was an about face, with the same official declaring that the government had decided to probe the claim “given the agitation that has arisen after publication of this information in the media.”⁸

That’s not entirely promising, a cynic might reply, and many did, was it not like saying: “Look, if they want an official document saying that we didn’t do it, we can comply with that”? So be it. Whose version of truth will prevail? From within the Nazi death camps, Jehovah’s Witnesses smuggled out detailed diagrams of their layout, and those were published in Watchtower magazines.⁹ They were disbelieved by other media outlets until post-liberation proved them all true. The Witnesses’ veracity is well established, even by those who don’t like them. On the other hand, stories of abuse, even torture, by Russian police are legion by groups of many different stripes.

Not everything pointed to a quick whitewash. Following an early meeting of the Investigative Committee, Vladimir Ermolaev, a department chief, told Znak.com: "I admit to you that what these people described at the meeting, with these horrible details, all of this shocked me….I cannot describe for you in detail, since nobody has authorized me to do so. But what they said, I registered it all, documented it. I will send all of these materials to the Investigation Department of the S.K.R. for Yugra and to the prosecutor's office of the region.”¹⁰So time will tell.*

When the young boy cries “The emperor has no clothes!” and the latter in response just keeps on strutting his stuff, there’s not much one can do about it other than thoroughly documenting his nakedness and broadcasting it far and wide. This, the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses have done, most notably through their website. No wonder the urgent need of those who oppose to deprive them of organization.

Jehovah’s Witnesses are regarded by many as the canary in the coal mine. What happens to them may soon happen to others. Two American Mormon missionaries were deported in early March and there were reports that they might be next in line for wider persecution. However, Alexander Verkhovsky, one of the top Russian experts on extremism, xenophobia, nationalism, and human rights, wrote in March 2019, that Witnesses just might become a canary pointing in the other direction. “The growing campaign against Jehovah's Witnesses inspires horror, but it also gives a chance that this time someone will finally catch on and think. [The Witnesses] are too obviously not a threat to security and at the same time they are just as clearly impossible to “eradicate”, since more than 100,000 people cannot be imprisoned or forced out of the country, and Jehovah’s Witnesses have not given up on their faith during difficult times.”¹¹ The situation is too ludicrous, and too unambiguous. The popular mind confuses Muslim groups in a non-Muslim country, so that peaceful Muslim groups are mistaken for groups that have done very bad things. Even Mormons cannot be said to be apolitical—in the United States, they are the most politically polarized of all faiths.¹² But Jehovah’s Witnesses have claimed neutrality for their entire existence, and their “pacifist” stance is attested to by all. Just how dangerous can they be? Maybe the recent shocker of torture for a Christian group (Russians are used to it for Muslim activists suspected of “excessive radicalism,” Verkhovsky speculates) will cause the government to recalibrate.

Russian Jehovah’s Witnesses will hope for the best and ever be respectful of government, but they can be forgiven if they become jaded at the speculations of a quick turnaround. They have seen their country sail blithely past many buoys of ludicrousness. Did not Dennis Christensen say that he hoped the judge would be fair, “but he also [knew] what country he lived in?” Did not the country ban a Bible on the basis that it is not a Bible and the entire educated world knows that it is? Did not every interested person in the world see, via the Witness website, video evidence of Russian police in riot gear scaling fences to break down the door of a Kingdom Hall en route to arresting those inside, and the only ones refusing to see it were the ones that had a moral obligation to do so—the Russian Supreme Court? Maybe this buoy will be yet one more left in the wake of the unshamable ship.

Can the Russian authorities be shamed? Possibly not. The ban itself shames them, and they could see it come from miles away but embraced it anyway. The present reality harkens back to what columnist Andrew Sorokowski wrote prior to the ban: “Why would a nation of some 144,000,000 risk its international reputation to persecute a religious sect numbering no more than 175,000 followers?” Nonetheless, trash it they did and it is not so clear when or even if that course will reverse.¹³

Mr. Verkhovsky takes for granted that Jehovah’s Witnesses will not give up on their faith. How can they? They will recall the verse about paying Caesar’s things to Caesar but God’s things to God. They will think of the verse that says you do not fear the one who can kill the body and afterwards do no more. The one to fear is the one who can take away the soul.¹⁴

Though ever a small minority, many have protested the treatment of Jehovah’s Witnesses over the past two years. Atheists have held up banners in support of them. An activist from Kaliningradian scaled a lamppost to hang as sign proclaiming: “Jehovah's Witnesses are banned, they will also ban God.”¹⁵ Perhaps he is more accurate than he knows. Nikolai Gordienko, of the Herzen Russian State University in St. Petersburg, once stated “When the experts accuse Jehovah’s Witnesses for their teachings, they do not realize that they are actually making accusations against the Bible.”¹⁶ “Of course they are scared,” Yaroslav Sivulskiy tells a source. “But it does not mean that they will cease to be Jehovah's witnesses and do what is important to them…Jehovah's witnesses are good people, but they cannot abandon their faith when the state expects this refusal from them.”¹⁷

Just to keep things in perspective, for anyone can be too close to the forest to see the trees. Virtually all of Jehovah’s Witnesses were exiled to Siberia during the late 1940s and early 50s. Today, about 200 of them are detained out of a population of 170,000. It is outrageous, of course, and for many there is a sense of waiting for the other shoe to drop. Still, terrible though it may be for those affected individuals, life goes on and most of the Russian Witnesses are not suffering. They are cautious, yes, but they have always been cautious. They know their country. They know their government. They know their police. They've had the potential for trouble for many years and have adjusted. For the vast majority, life goes on as usual: they work, they go to school, they marry, some have children, they visit family both Witnesses and non-Witnesses, they buy groceries, they play in the park.

They know they must be careful, but they have always known it. They note with approval the heightened world and national attention to their faith, even if some individuals endure more than their share of injustice. They strengthen their weak ones. A few have actually stated that the last two years have been good for them because it has strengthened their relationships with each other and with their God.

Russia is a huge country and not everyone plugs into the news. Many only vaguely know of the ban, many don’t care about it, and some, as seen above, actively don’t support it. Nor do they treat their JW acquaintances any differently because of it. This writer is told of one case where a school boss refused to dismiss a Witness employee, telling his superior that she is the best teacher he has, and he would hope for more like her. At a certain meeting location held in a private home, a Witnesses’ unbelieving husbands says: "Everybody knows that you are not extremists." That’s good to hear, for another aftermath of the Surgut episode is that one father of three, a firefighter, was thereafter fired from his job despite triggering no complaints over 20 years, joining many others of similar experience. “My three kids have been crying ever since the operatives barged down the door,” he said. “Now I have no job, but I am certain my God will show me a way through.”¹⁸

Says Sivulskiy: “law enforcement is making monstrous efforts to find clusters of Jehovah’s Witnesses in their small gatherings”—large assemblies are out of the question.¹⁹ But Russia is a monstrous country, and efforts have been sporadic. Will they diminish, level off, or intensify? Witnesses recently reconsidered Revelation 2:10: “Do not be afraid of anything that you are going to suffer. Indeed, the devil will throw some of you into prison into prison, that you may be tested, and you will face an ordeal for ten days.” “Some” does not mean “all,” it was observed, as the Witnesses continue to show resolve amidst adversity. They don’t like what is happening, but they always knew that it might.

 

***~~~***

Every religion has its apostates. The trend now is that their activism is in direct proportion to the degree of firmness exercised within their former faith so as to encourage members to stay on the path that they have chosen. Apostates of the world have even united to wage common war against faiths they perceive as having similar attributes. And nobody has apostates more voracious than those of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Some members of this avid JW-opposer community gloated over this new development. By far, however, the tactics of torture were condemned by that group. Make no mistake, such condemnation is noted and appreciated, however it is also substantially watered down by the recognition that their goals are the same—that Jehovah’s Witnesses cease being Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is only in methods that they differ.

Spiritually speaking, is it not a situation of good cop/bad cop? They hope for the same outcome. The good cop is likely sincere that he does not want you to fall into the clutches of the bad cop, for he knows how bad that bad cop can be. But they both have the same goal. Physically, of course, Jehovah’s Witnesses will far prefer the good cop. They are not superhuman and nobody wants to be mistreated. Spiritually, however, the good and the bad cop is the same. In fact, the good cop may even be worse. A thug is a thug is a thug. His malice is unmistakable and is on plain display. He doesn’t masquerade as a friend whose only aim is to help you. He doesn’t patronize you with a concocted “us versus them” scenario from which he is trying to free you.

The mutual goal is that Jehovah’s Witnesses should no longer be Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is that talk about the hope of God’s kingdom should stop, and the grapes already on the vine should wither, and to that end there is an effort to strangle the support organization. To be sure, their methods differ. It is as though one faction says to another, “You’re going about it all wrong!” Yet the two factions are working in tandem, pressing for the same end.

As much as the saying goes that “you can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time,” sometimes you can get pretty close. The majority can be fooled for the longest time. If it were not so, then the prophets of old would not have had the time that they did—a time which was revisited upon Christians of the first century, and a time which is being revisited on Christians in Russia today:

“What more shall I say?” the Bible writer asks. “I have not time to tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets, who by faith conquered kingdoms, did what was righteous, obtained the promises; they closed the mouths of lions, put out raging fires, escaped the devouring sword; out of weakness they were made powerful, became strong in battle….Some were tortured and would not accept deliverance, in order to obtain a better resurrection. Others endured mockery, scourging, even chains and imprisonment. They were stoned, sawed in two, put to death at sword’s point; they went about in skins of sheep or goats, needy, afflicted, tormented. The world was not worthy of them. They wandered about in deserts and on mountains, in caves and in crevices in the earth.”²⁰

Jehovah’s Witnesses will put the experience off as long as they can, thank you very much, but they do not imagine themselves outsmarting the scripture, nor Jesus words that his followers would be hated.

Anton Chivchalov, the individual who covered court proceedings via tweet at five minute intervals, per personal email to this writer, offers a gloomy assessment of how Russians view Jehovah’s Witnesses, notwithstanding that there are some who see right through it. “In Russia there are many myths about Jehovah's Witnesses that 99% people believe,” he writes. “They break up families, take people's property, kill their own children by refusing blood transfusion, American spies, want to overturn the government, etc. This is mostly the cause of the hate.”

“Can it really be that high? what with Putin‘s recent statement of seeming support and at least a certain amount of favorable press? Are the human rights people, supportive journalists, and religious scholars all viewed as rabble-rousers?” I asked.

“Yes,” Chivchalov answered. “They are too few. General public still hates Witnesses and approves of the repressions.²¹ And many people hate human rights movements too (thinking they work for the US).” Jehovah’s people are not wildly popular anywhere, but it appears that in Russia they face the most unhinged opposition, against which they are standing strong. They have this writer’s undying respect.

Timofei Zhukov the Jehovah’s Witness hauled down to the police station where fellow congregation members were tortured, had this to say to Kommersant: “I will tell you, not as a believer, but as a lawyer—these investigators and [F.S.B agents] esfesbeshniki simply do not know what they are doing. The did not understand anything—whom they are coming to search. what kind of people these are, what they are accused of. It seems that the authorities told them: “There are bad people live there and they are corrupting the state system. Go and do what you want with them.” Where did they get the idea that Jehovah’s Witnesses were bad people?

After the ordeal, Mr. Zhukov spoke with some of his former colleagues, who encouraged him to desist from “such nonsense.” He told them that Witnesses were doing their work for them to a great extent. “You are investigating crime, but you have a problem with prevention. And I come to people and I say: ‘It is bad to steal. It is bad to lie. It is bad to smoke.’” They are not bad people. They are good people. Jerod Kushner, the U.S. President’s son-in-law, well prior to his political days, said of the Jehovah’s Witnesses from whom he would buy property that they were persons of “high integrity” with whom “a handshake deal meant something.” The journalists of Present Time comment to the director of the Sova Center Alexander Verkhovsky, after hearing his description: “Then they look like perfect citizens.” “You see, they would be ideal citizens in some other country,” is the latter’s reply.²² They are not bad people. They are good people. So from where comes the perception that they are bad people?

It is a question that might well have been asked in the first century. The historian Tacitus writes the following about the persecution of Christians after Nero pinned the blame upon them for burning down Rome: "Therefore, to stop the rumor [that he had set Rome on fire], he [Emperor Nero] falsely charged with guilt, and punished with the most fearful tortures, the persons commonly called Christians, who were hated for their enormities. Christus, the founder of that name, was put to death as a criminal by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea, in the reign of Tiberius, but the pernicious superstition - repressed for a time, broke out yet again, not only through Judea, - where the mischief originated, but through the city of Rome also, whither all things horrible and disgraceful flow from all quarters, as to a common receptacle, and where they are encouraged. Accordingly first those were arrested who confessed they were Christians; next on their information, a vast multitude were convicted, not so much on the charge of burning the city, as of "hating the human race." In their very deaths they were made the subjects of sport: for they were covered with the hides of wild beasts, and worried to death by dogs, or nailed to crosses, or set fire to, and when the day waned, burned to serve for the evening lights. Nero offered his own garden players for the spectacle, and exhibited a Circensian game, indiscriminately mingling with the common people in the dress of a charioteer, or else standing in his chariot. For this cause a feeling of compassion arose towards the sufferers, though guilty and deserving of exemplary capital punishment, because they seemed not to be cut off for the public good, but were victims of the ferocity of one man."²³

Note the dim view of Christians, fully shared by Tacitus. They were “hated for their enormities.” They were readily thought to be persons “hating the human race.” They were the deluded followers of a “pernicious superstition.” The cruel wrath of Nero unleashed genuine compassion, however they were regarded “guilty and deserving of exemplary capital punishment.” How could this have been perceived of Christ’s followers only 35 years after his death?

Professor G. A. Wells, author of The Jesus Myth, writes that “the context of Tacitus’ remarks itself suggests that he relied on Christian informants.”²⁴ Who could possibly have been their “informants?” They could not have been faithful members, for these would not “inform.” They could not have been non-members, for these would not have anything to “inform” about. There is little left to choose from other than former disgruntled members—today (and then) we would call them “apostates.” These came to wish their former faith ill. Perhaps some of them even posed as reformers of that faith, whistleblowers to whatever upset them—particularly if they had been ousted for conduct contrary to tenets of the faith.

The parallels are too blatant to ignore. If it was they in former times, how can it not be they in present times? How else can such a manifestly good people—in the first century and in the present—be so widely portrayed as bad? It is the “apostates” that present that picture of good portrayed as bad. It is the apostates that spark the conflagration, with unrelenting and incendiary charges. Any student of human nature knows that if you repeat a charge often enough, no matter how unlikely, it impresses itself on the general populace. Surely advertising teaches us that. The match doesn’t catch everywhere, but in Russia if finds the kindling just right—a government hostile for 100 years to the land in which Witness headquarters is located, at the same time in close union with the dominant house church, hostile to even traditional Christian faiths. It doesn’t happen everywhere. But the apostates ever light the match to encourage conflagration and sometime the planets align.

The religious enemies of the Jesus’ day had to be careful: “Then the chief priests and the elders of the people assembled...and they consulted together to arrest Jesus by treachery and put him to death. But they said: ‘Not during the festival, that there may not be a riot among the people.’”²⁵ They could have done it at the festival had the festival been held in Russia. There wouldn’t have been a riot. There would have been widespread approval. They could have done it at the festival had the festival been held in Rome, too. There was widespread approval back then—such is the change in popular perception wrought by then and now apostates.

Kommersant asked Mr. Zhukov why the government persecutes his people, and he told them that he didn’t really know—he could speculate, but he didn’t really know.²⁶ It was the same answer as President Putin himself offered just two months ago—he didn’t really know why Jehovah’s Witnesses are persecuted. Mr. Zhukov did note however, that early Christians, too, were called “sectarians” and that they, too, had been persecuted.

Even the Russian president can’t figure it out! Doug Bandow, senior fellow at the Cato Institute, writes that his “comments are hard to explain other than as an expression of genuine puzzlement over so much effort being expended to eliminate an evidently nonexistent threat.”²⁷ How can it not be the machinations of someone devious? What arguments does that international community of apostates/opposers to the faith make? They are settling the score, largely, in the cases of those who were disfellowshipped, spinning for an irreligious world the myth that Jehovah’s Witnesses break up families, a point of view that was not accepted by the European Court of Human Rights: “It is the resistance and unwillingness of non-religious family members to accept and to respect their religious relative’s freedom to manifest and practice his or her religion that is the source of conflict.”²⁸ Many, even most today, will look askance at any scenario in which spiritual considerations can trigger a family divide—no matter from which side it arises, but they will not think it an evil that compares with global terrorism. Families have divided since the beginning of time, often for matters far more fleeting than religion. In the West, it is not uncommon for the elderly to be abandoned in nursing homes, never to be contacted again, for no greater reason that they have become inconvenient. It is not something in which governments typically wish to meddle.

No, it makes no sense, the mass portrayal of Jehovah’s Witnesses as “bad people.” If they refuse blood transfusions, surely it must be acknowledged somewhere along the line that progressive doctors have learned to accommodate their point of view, and it so doing, they have devised medicine that is both safer and more cost-effective.²⁹ And, though it has played no part in Russia, a widespread war against child sexual abuse finds Jehovah’s Witness “clergy” accused of covering up pedophilia. This is an unsavory thing, yet they come off almost as knights in shining armor when compared to religious denominations in general in which the leaders themselves have been the pedophile abusers.³⁰ The “us versus them” scenario avidly advanced by apostates has caught on. Roman Silantyev of Moscow State Linguistic University complains that “this sect promotes external and inner extremism, inciting hatred to those who think and believe in a different way and bullying their own members,” and even hopes that “recognizing this sect as extremist [will give] a possibility to dozens of our citizens to leave this concentration camp.” He has been conditioned to misunderstand everything. Jehovah’s Witnesses will continue to carry out the tenets of their religious beliefs “because they are operating out of faith rather than compulsion.”³¹

Silantyev is “crazy” and yet his craziness has spread to influence those whom you would think would not be crazy to act in crazy ways. Writes Bandow: “Moscow denies that it is persecuting JWs for their beliefs. Rather, explained Vyacheslav Lebedev, chief justice of the Russian Supreme Court, ‘the situation is actually being presented as if these people are being persecuted for their belief and religious activity. Yet the decision, which was made by the Supreme Court amongst others, is unrelated to religion. It is about a violation of the law, which religious organizations have no right to breach.’ The law bans the faith, so punishing them for exercising their faith is merely punishing a violation of the law. This argument is perfectly Orwellian. Translating Lebedev: We declared your religious faith to be extremist, and you are not allowed to be extremists. So we are arresting you for being extremists. But feel free to practice your faith and have a good day.”

This writer would be a wealthy individual indeed if he had a few dollars for every disgruntled ex-Witness who, upon failing to turn the JW ship in the direction of his choosing, went on scorch the JW earth with terminology from George Orwell’s 1984. Witnesses practice “doublethink” and have “thought police” who sniff out ones committing “thoughtcrime,” or even ones who fail to do “goodthink” (thought approved by the party). It is an intensification of a trend seen everywhere: failing to sway the other side and consequently declaring them “arrogant.” Yet the first actual instance of 1984 comes, not from Jehovah’s Witnesses, but from those who oppose them. If memory serves, was not Mr. O’Brien a pleasant and refined man on the surface, posing as Winston’s friend, before revealing his true character—and thus combining both good cop and bad cop into a single character?

***~~~***

*In fact, the Russian investigation into torture found, in a very short time, that there was nothing to it at all.³²

 

Endnotes:

1…Chernykh, Alexander, “We are the same people as you, but now we are called criminals and extremists,” Kommersant, March 1, 2019, accessed March 15, 2019, https://kommersant.ru/doc/3899000

2…Carroll, Oliver, “Russia’s Jehovah’s Witnesses Allege ‘21’st Century Inquistion’ Amid Claims of Torture,” Independent, February 21, 2019, accessed March 15, 2019, https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-jehovahs-witness-crackdown-surgut-religion-discrimination-a8790761.html

3…Zavlayov, Dmity, “Source: Jehovah's Witnesses, Khanty-Mansiysk Autonomous Okrug, are trying to ruin a criminal case with accusations against security officials,” Ura.News, February 28, 2019, accessed March 15, 2019, https://ura.news/news/1052374340

4…Pomomarev, Lev, “Read and Watch,” blog post for echo.msk.ru, February 26, 2019, assessed March 15, 2019, https://echo.msk.ru/blog/lev_ponomarev/2378667-echo/

5…“ECHR Imposes Interim Measures in Response to Torture Complaint From Surgut,” jw-russia.org, February 27, 2019

6…Luxmoore, Matthew, “‘Time Becomes a Blur When You’re Experiencing Great Pain’: Russian Jehovah’s Witness Alleges Police Torture,” RadioFreeEurope/RadioLiberty, February 22, 2019

7…Lemon, Jason, “Jehovah’s Witnesses Tortured With Electric Shocks and Suffocation in Russia, Church Says” Newsweek, February 23, 2019

8…“Russia Says it Will Probe Jehovah’s Witnesses Torture Claim,” apnews.com, February 23, 2019, accessed March 19, 2019, https://apnews.com/f43f396dac9c4159987493f92123a3f9

9… Also, see   Crusade Against Christianity, (Brooklyn: Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, 1938) . Regarding this book, the 1965 Watchtower volume, December 1, 1965 issue, recalls on page 733: “Meantime in Germany, the Nazi fury rages and our brothers are exposed to frightful, inhuman persecution, which they withstand even at the cost of their lives. Documented material that reaches our office about such persecution is carefully preserved. Then Brother Rutherford approves publishing a book giving the evidence of the sufferings of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Germany. It appears under the title “Kreuzzug gegen das Christentum in the German language. It is also published in French and Polish.” See some of diagrams at “The Evils of Nazism Exposed,” Awake!, August 22, 1995, 11.

10…”Stories of Surgut "Jehovah's Witnesses" about torture in the TFR shocked the Ugra Ombudsman,” Znak.com, February 25, 2019, accessed March 16, 2019, https://www.znak.com/2019-02-25/rasskazy_surgutskih_svideteley_iegovy_o_pytkah_v_skr_shokirovali_yugorskogo_ombudsmena

11… Verkhovsky, Alexander, “The Fight Against Religious Extremism’ all Widers, Need to be Narrowed Down,” ng.ru, March 5, 2019

 

12….  Michael Lipka, “U.S. Religious Groups and Their Political Leanings,” Pew Research Center, February 23, 2016, accessed March 9, 2019

13…Andrew Sorokowski, “Witnesses to Persecution,” Religious Information Service of Ukraine, May 5, 2017, accessed March 23, 2018, https://risu.org.ua/article_print.php?id=66964&name=asorokowski_column&_lang=en&

14…Matthew 10:28

15…”They Will Also Ban God,” klops.ru, Mrch 9, 2019, accessed March 11, 2019, https://news.rambler.ru/other/41842016

16…Emily P. Baran, Dissent on the Margins - How Jehovah’s Witnesses Defied Communism and Lived to Preach About It (New York: Oxford University Press, 2014) 240

17…Ryzhova, Anna, "Get Rid of Witnesses," Russian-reporter, February 25, 2019, accessed March 16, 2019, http://expert.ru/russian_reporter/2019/03/izbavitsya-ot-svidetelej/

18…ibid….Carroll, Oliver, “Russia’s Jehovah’s Witnesses Allege ‘21’st Century Inquistion’ Amid Claims of Torture,” Independent, February 21, 2019, accessed March 15, 2019, https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-jehovahs-witness-crackdown-surgut-religion-discrimination-a8790761.html

19…2^nd notice …Ryzhova, Anna, "Get Rid of Witnesses," Russian-reporter, February 25, 2019, accessed March 16, 2019, http://expert.ru/russian_reporter/2019/03/izbavitsya-ot-svidetelej/

20…Hebrews 11:32-38

21…Chivchalov’s comment does not entirely square with remarks I made above (based upon the visits of a personal acquaintance who has traveled in Russia) but I believe it is a case of no one person seeing the entire picture. Plainly the ‘99%’ is hyperbole. The title says it all in this Moscow Times article: “Many Russians Don’t Know the Jehovah’s Witnesses, But They Still Want Them Banned” (themoscowtimes.com, July 13, 2017). Chivchalov himself said at the time that it depends upon how the subject is breached. If it is just a matter of shooing away uninvited callers, most Russians will say yes. But if it is a matter of sending those ones to jail, they will not go that far.

22…www.currenttime.tv/a/Jehovah-witnesses-Russia/29785245.html

23…Tacitus, Annals, 117 c.e.

24….Wells, G. A., The Historical Evidence for Jesus, (Buffalo: Prometheus Books, 1982) 17

25…Mathew 26: 3-5

26… Chernykh, Alexander, “We Are the Same”

27…Bandow, Doug, “Persecutors Pile on Jehovah’s Witnesses, in Russia and Worldwide,” nationalreview.com, March 1, 2019, assessed March 21, 2019, https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/03/jehovahs-witnesses-persecuted-russia-worldwide

28…Fautre, Willie, “Cults and Religious Freedom Around the World,” address to the ICSA Annual International Conference, Montreal Canada, July 5-7, 2012, accessed March 21, 2019, https://www.academia.edu/5201173/Cult_Issues_and_Religous_Freedom

29… “An Act of Faith in the Operating Room,” New Scientist, April 26, 2008

30…See the category https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/pedophiles (by this author)

31….Bandow, Doug, “Persecutors Pile”

32…”The Examination Found No Signs of Torture in the Follower of “Jehovah’s Witnesses,” RIA Novosti, Moscow, March 21, 2019

 

I actually find myself wondering sometimes if he really can be a Witness. There is plenty to suggest that he is. But he seems so determined to portray JWs as the most narrow minded, abrasive, lockstep, attack-oriented, judgmental people on earth, with even paranoid thrown in to boot, that at times I have my doubts.

Who can say, really?

To quote myself, the Internet is the land of the liars, where nobody is necessarily what they appear to be. No wonder the GB is not thrilled about Witnesses going there.

30 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

I would think you should have been able to find,

I will mention this before @JW Insiderdoes:

This is a self-help website that you have taken your drawing from. (Imagine him thinking it is eggs!—what on earth is wrong with him?) It is on the downside of overthinking, of not being able to mentally shut off.

Do you have that challenge, Billy, of not being able to turn off? 

If so, you have plenty of very good company.

25 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

I suggest you go back to your earlier rants and apply this nonsense now. You're not getting off that easy author

I nailed it, Billy. You know it. I know it. 

9 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

12 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Let’s get this nonsense back on track. Witness has a problem with the JW.org banner that some witnesses consider a flag.

Oh, who cares? We talked that stupid subject out ages ago. It has nothing to do with us anyhow, being way there on the other side of the world.

 

Um..... the more I think about this, @BillyTheKid46....

Who’s associating with apostates, you or me?

Oh, yeah, Witness, who loathes the theocratic organization and regulary posts scurrilous items in hopes of pulling people away from it and will do so until the day she dies. Witness, who finds some devilish thing that she thinks can be twisted into stumbling loyal friends and drawing them her way. Witness, who monitors all the derogatory websites to throw out the most powerful anti-JW slander that she can find,    and what is your reaction....even after the subject has been more than adequately covered?

Let’s forget that JWI has reassessed how he is going to interact here, and has said he will do a 180 in matters that may affect the brotherhood in ways he did not intend.

Nah, who cares? “Let’s go back to that dung that Witness brought up! Let’s return to the vomit and talk about that!!!!”

Who’s associating with apostates now?

Who’s being the hypocrite now?

Who is the pot that is calling the kettle black now?

Who ought to apply to himself all the verses that he has hurled at others now?

Did you notice my two lines, just after yours in the heading??

“Oh, who cares? We talked that stupid subject out ages ago.”

That’s how you handle the malignant thing should you decide to involve yourself!!