TrueTomHarley

1 hour ago, Anna said:

I already had that figured out, as might have others. But I don't think it's fair you state it.

It turns out that Top Cat O'Malihan is an expert on these things, too.

37 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

you are evidently privileged to be in the presence of a very rare level of competence.

Apparently I have seen it, as he has lured you into pounding the daylights out of your own machine and stranding yourself.

Gasp!!!!!! Neil is not allensmith28, is he? (the first one to react)

And 27, and 26, and 25, and so on all the way down to allensmith?

And - no, it cannot be! - even Allen_Smith? the one who once sported the most glorious stache I have ever seen but has since shaved it off?

(more than once I have had the impression that everyone on this forum knows one another except for me)

52 minutes ago, Ann O'Maly said:

Again I ask, Neil: Why should anyone bother Bethel about it?

I do not know who Neil is. In responding to a post of mine before, you seem to assume that I do. (I have not followed this thread closely)

4 hours ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

Meanwhile, I'll tell you what will happen soon. 

On 1/3/2018 at 11:44 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

On 1/3/2018 at 11:16 AM, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

have you gone from criticizing my posts to get to give me advice on how to "put me better" in front of others?

.

Yes. Are you not being a bit...um....immodest? 

18 hours ago, Ann O'Maly said:

NBC 4897 isn't an astronomical text, you kumquat. 

 

18 hours ago, allensmith28 said:

ad ho·mi·nem But, I'm glad you mentioned it since COJ did think it, instead of just a flawed ledger.

 

17 hours ago, Ann O'Maly said:

COJ never thought NBC 4897 an astronomical text, you donut.  ('Donut' - you can tell the gloves are coming off now!)

First Responders!!! STAT!!! Food fight in aisle 607!!

*

4 hours ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

Meanwhile, I want to tell you that I'm not a young man.
I am not less than 35 years old.

Alright alright, already!

Let it be as when the brother on the platform asks for some young hands and the kids in the audience do nothing but sit on theirs.

He finally turns to some old-timer and says: "Well, let's call on someone young at heart. Brother Buzzard, please?"

Pity. I wanted you to be young.

One of our elders bought a new Toyota SUV and it has all the doo-dads. Certain brothers are going gaga over it and all the things it can do.  Now - this is not me. I say: "look for a steering wheel and brakes. Whatever else it does nor does not have: get used to it."

So the brothers are slobbering over Frank's SUV and I climb aboard one Saturday morning and pretend to be one of them. "Frankie, does this car have a RADIO?" I ask, as though awestruck. 

But Frankie is cool and he plays along: "Naw, it doesn't have one of those."

16 minutes ago, Queen Esther said:

in  poorer  countries  the  people  often  more  happy,  also  JW !   Importend  are other  things...  LOVE,  PEACE  a  bed,  clothes,  bread  and  water   All  others  is  little  LUXURY,  but  nice

Many years ago a brother from an African branch spoke here. He was amazed at the material wealth. He went on and on about how brothers here even have "washing-up machines." And: "Not only do you have cars here but you have garages in which to put the cars. In Africa, four families would live in that garage!"

18 minutes ago, Queen Esther said:

So  I  not  really  understand  this  post !    Our  Pastors  driving  smaller  cars,  bec. not  earning  so  much  money,  thats  it   haha..

The first photo is of a prosperity gospel church - there are many of them here - whereby the preacher and his family always make out financially very well indeed, thank you, though the flock is typically quite modest, or even poor. BibleSpeaks may have a specific church in mind, but I do not know that.

The next photo is from Ann being a smart-aleck. Judge Rutherford drove a nice car, too, she points out.

The next post is from BibleSpeaks, essentially saying: "OH YEAH?! Well, our guy deserved it because he was our guy!"

Then JWI adds some explanatory details and it is a wonder he does not go on for pages. 

Then follows a photo of me in a 56 Cadillac that is not mine. It belongs to a local businessman. He saw me looking it over. We got to chatting and he offered to take a picture of me in it. He bought the Cadillac from some mogul in Hollywood. It has apparently been in some movies but, for some reason, everyone is tight lipped about just which ones. 

 

TrueTom on his way to fleece the sheep.

54 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

and it is very tiresome

I have not noticed you taking any rest from your 'work.'

8 minutes ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

have you gone from criticizing my posts to get to give me advice on how to "put me better" in front of others?

Yes.

8 minutes ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

In the next article I will write I will only ask a series of questions. Can I count on your Scriptural answers?

Probably not. I go where I go. So I may or may not. The trick is to not let yourself be cross-examined.

Even if I thought I could knock it out of the park, I would refrain. The GB consistently says 'do not tell them what you think - all you can do thereby is make them a disciple of yourself. Direct them to what the Bible teaches.' They say this to publishers with regard to addressing the public. They say it to elders with regard to addressing the publishers. I don't want to set myself up as an instructor or make disciples for myself. If I succeeded, I assure you the novelty would soon wear off.

18 minutes ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

Thanks again, TrueTomHarley, and so I hope I can start a frank and respectful conversation only with the Word of God.

You are welcome. It is well intended. You probably will not succeed in doing the latter. I respect the GB's counsel to not set up online study groups, because of their tendency to promote the sects that Paul deplores in the first chapter of 1 Corinthians. Even on this forum - you may have noticed, though I admit it in the eye of the beholder - I do not get myself mixed up with that sort of thing. There are flavors of participation; I try not to go there. 

18 minutes ago, Arauna said:

The history on the ground since 1914 is what helps the "simple folk out there - the Amaharets" - without the academic inclinations, to lift their heads up. They are the ones whom Jehovah and Jesus loves.... and sustains with his spirit.

God and his Son love the Amaharets. They are chosen over the lofty. It is one of the most significant lessons a person can learn from  the Bible 

2 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

Maybe it's not legally enforceable, but in the hearts of JWs it is.

You would arbitrate what is in people's hearts?

2 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

Or didn't the article say JWs who discuss on websites with comments disrespect God's name?

No. It did not.

2 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

The org purports itself in different ways to different people, but it's most upfront about its views to its adherents.

That is true of anyone.

And look at this stupid graphic that @James Thomas Rook Jr. posts, contemptuous of those who would seek a place of refuge:

He joins Ann and Witness, mocking Bro Morris for highlighting the place of security the Bible speaks about:

"C'mon! Come out here and we will teach you a thing! What - are you scared? Nyah, nyah, sissy! You couldn't survive in the real world, like me! Here, I'll even spot you a dozen horses. See if you can even put riders on them!"

He lives to be contentious. It is the stuff of life for him. He taunts those who realize it is but a distraction from the real life and thereby shy away from it. 

3 hours ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

The right thing to do would be to help each other but this is not possible because every "criticism" is seen as "lack of respect"

You did not respond to any inquiries about your ministry.

Why don't you try the following? I stumbled across it once. It has transformed my ministry. Maybe it will help yours.

Say something like: "I'm hoping for a minute of your time, no more. I will read a scripture, you tell me what you think, and I am gone! Good idea?" (it may be rude to do this in countries where they insist on palaver, but the U.S. is not one of those countries)

If they say no, I am true to my word and leave. A surprising number will say yes - it is not much you have asked for and you have put a time limit on your own call.

Once you read whatever you've selected, add a sentence or two explaining why you read it. At this point, you have given a substantial witness. Punt. Say something like: "the next move is yours and you don't have to make one. If you have observations, questions, comments, we can talk a bit - that's why Witnesses come. Otherwise, thanks for you time, and I'll move on."

If you truly love the word of God and are suspicious of anything from men, I would think that you would love this technique. You may not like the following, but it is not required: If they indicate they can spare a few minutes, I will often start them a video, with the comment: "this runs almost 4 minutes, but you don't have to listen to it all. The minute it gets boring, hand it back." Some do, but not many.

The videos are not the last word on anything but they cover an important idea and develop it. You can then go anywhere you want. I often leave at that point, unless specifically asked to stay. I make use of the card a lot directing to the website. 

Full disclosure: I don't like most of the sample presentations I see enacted at the meetings trying to arouse interest in this or that magazine. I will be happy to see them go. It will mean more emphasis on actually teaching the Bible. 

I didn't read closely most of your dissertations on prophesy. This is not to disrespect you. But you could be hit by a truck tomorrow and then where would I be? It is not wrong for you to look deeply into aspects of God's word. It is even commendable. But you give the appearance, perhaps without intent, of setting yourself up as a teacher. It is immodest to do so. It is at least immodest to rebuke those who have a great deal to show for their stewardship. You didn't respond to my conjecture that you are a young man. I am therefore more convinced that you are - it shows between the lines. You can tell a lot by not just what someone says but also by what he does not say - places he does not go. A young man need not be told to "shut up." I don't think I have done that, though there may be something that can be taken out of context. 

But Elihu waited a long long time before addressing older ones who actually did need it. And Moses struck out to fix things, only to find his real contribution would not come for 40 years. And a young Jesus amazed his elders with his answers and with his own questions, not with his dissertations.  Even he did not just spout off before these older ones - he reserved that for later when he was better equipped and had grown and had actually accomplished something by way of kingdom preaching and disciple-making. 

I am a little worried that while you look deeply into aspects of God's Word, it is the whiz-bang cool passages you delve into. Spend more time delving into the ones less glamorous having to do with putting on the personality of the Christ. I say it not to put you down, but to ensure that your undeniable talent does not become a snare for you.

7 hours ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

I think this will be useful to distinguish who really loves the Word of God (and therefore is able to get back into question) by those who love a human organization. Who likes to do accurate research and who, on the contrary, loves tranquility.

If I had to make a wild guess, I would say that you are 35 or younger and that you have pioneered at one time. You are obviously heady and have become impatient with those who are not. You are gifted in some areas but are not very well-rounded. "Full of yourself" was not an accurate nor kind description on my part. I'll take it back. I think you are hurt by your perception that many brothers seem a bit dull spiritually, and show little interest in what you are undeniably good at. Deep "research" you have found for many of them is just uncovering what the slave has said on this or that point and spitting it back to them. You would go deeper and you know that it is possible and not a bad thing in itself. It's not that you would reach your own conclusions over prophesy that is alarming. It is the fact you are so ready to judge those of greater years who have traditionally done it that is. Paul spoke of the 'pattern of healthful words.' Once you have the pattern, you can continue along those lines. You need not have every thought pre-thunk for you. But I fear this quick dismissal of headship is not the pattern that Paul speaks of. You needn't wait for them to think a thought before you think it. But denegrating them is another thing entirely. It is immodest, and that is among the reasons I take a stab that you are a younger man.

I would ask that you look at those verses like "if all were the head, where would the body be?" and "he gave some as this, some as that, some more as such-and-such with a view toward the building up...." Our people are too quick to acquiesce to headship, you say. They should roam around themselves more and not be content to be spoon-fed. My suggestion is that you accept that is the way people are - anywhere. Not all have the same gifts.

Not all are heady. In fact, most of our people are hands-on doers in this or that way - not heady. It's the way it is, Israeli. It is what Jehovah has given. Do not let your gift trip you up. Use it to build up and not tear down. Find that verse that tells us to regard the other person as superior to ourselves. Focus on it. How are they superior to you? Not in in-depth search of the scriptures, probably. You have bases well-covered there. Look for other areas in which they are superior and be instructed by them.

You say you really love the Word of God. i don't doubt it. Expand in how you love it. Expand at being a workman handling the word of truth aright - teaching it at the door & learning to love people so that you can be on the same wavelength as they to teach it. Notice the word used is "workman" That flavor is in all translations. They were builders and masons and handymen back then, just like today. They were not scholars. You are. Make it your gift that you bring to the altar. Don't count as inadequate those who bring different gifts. 

I would think you would be cheered by recent direction of Jehovah's Witnesses. Magazines will be but 6 a year, and then they will repeat. No more countenancing of those who fall into magazine placing. They are being nudged to improve (or learn) their teaching. Are there some who look to the jw.org logo almost like an idol, as some have charged?  'Keep your hands off it' is the impetus of the April article. Do some fawn over GB members and want selfies with them? 'Stop doing that,' they say. We don't take no selfies with nobody. They are aware of the problems you mention. They are moving in your direction

The C.O from our circuit was assigned the Warwick circuit next. So I razzed him to the effect "Now you are in trouble! You can razzle-dazzle we yokels here, but what will you ever do when you get there?" Through a friend I heard him about his new assignment. He was initially very uncomfortable playing circuit overseer before these ones. He felt inadequate. But he said that they are so very humble and unassuming that all that nervousness dissipated quickly. It is a type of report one hears frequently.

You misinterpret what you think is slavish devotion to them. They do nothing to exalt themselves as men and much to discourage it. What you missread is that not all persons are scholars. Or even thinkers. They have come out of a world where they perceived all is lie and spin and manipulation. They have discovered a source that they are convinced is not. They trust the source. They are not over-eager to dive back outside where again every word must be carefully weighed. They have other things to do. They want to get into the nitty-gritty of life and they do it, satisfied that the have the spiritual food base covered.

Let the entire Word of God and all theocratic arrangements mold you. Not just the parts you naturally take to. Look to the parts you don't and run them through your veins a few decades. It will make you complete and powerful over time. Don't chafe at the congregation. You are something that many of them are not. Learn that they have substantial gifts, too, and exert yourself to appreciate them more.

Am I close? Or did I miss by a mile? If it is the latter, it will not be the first time.

4 minutes ago, Ann O'Maly said:

Haha. You do not know my and Neil's history or the biting insults he's hurled my way in our time.

No I do not. Background knowledge always mitigates one's remarks. Online, one never has it. Maybe Bro Morris would caution about it for that reason, too.

1 hour ago, Ann O'Maly said:

"Stick with what we have authorized. You'll be safe." The article just underlines AMIII's admonishment and warning that 'unauthorized' internet activity exposes JWs to "spiritual danger."

He is exactly right.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

“you wanna go out there…it’s at your spiritual risk”.  Sounds like fear-mongering. 

Somewhat. It is because he knows the overall world is not Winnie-the-Pooh friendly toward Christian values. What is it with those who would disparage such counsel? They are exactly out of harmony with Scripture, in that they present the world as though it was.

I have the greatest respect for him, because he says what needs to be said, despite knowing that villains will beat him over the head with his own words and JTR will photoshop tight pants on him.

His counsel is exactly what public safety people will tell the public - hang up on the scammers. Don't think you can outsmart them. They do it 24/7 and you do it 10 minutes a month.

Don't be cocky thinking you will outwit the loudmouth car dealer & beat him at his own game. It is possible, but not likely, for the same reason.

1 hour ago, Ann O'Maly said:

and thereby have to rationalize away the GB's clear counsel.

This is not aimed at me, but I rationalize away nothing. It is counsel, not law. Also, I have plainly said I am being a bad boy in this regard. In all other significant areas, I would hope I can say I am exemplary. But not this one, and I do fret about setting a bad example for others. I do it for reasons not necessarily spiritual. Sometimes I just like to brawl. Even when I think I have "won" I have demonstrated an un-Christian trait. Even if I display clever argumentation, I distract from Scriptures that says it is primarily heart that counts. Charles Russell say 'if you stop to kick every dog that barks, you will not get very far.' Sometimes I like to kick them. And no, I haven't gotten very far.

Rightly or wrongly, to me, this forum is where spiritual themes play out and where hearts manifest themselves. This is where it can be seen "they went out from us, because they were not of our sort." "Sorts" can be seen here. Like the person who gags at the mention of "the greater good" when it is exactly pursuit of the greater good that is integral to Christianity as shown in Scripture. Like the person who argues doctrine or prophesy till the cows come home but never once gives indication whether they actually apply Christ-like traits in their own life. Like the person who wears like a badge of honor the #1 apostate trait Peter identifies: a contempt for authority.

Ann is routinely cutting in her remarks. "I am amazed (but maybe I should not be)" she hurls at someone who has resisted her instruction on another thread. She so plainly views herself as one of the intelligentsia with her patience being sorely tried as she talks down to the dumbbells. There is a time and place to say "sometimes people disagree - I can live with that."

Witness has revealed beyond all doubt her craving for audience and authority. @Arauna has nailed it pretty well.

Srecko has chosen to represent himself here as a moron, with his inane giggle hehehe preceding each imagined coup de grace, and his absurdly smilelys at the end. :)))) It reveals someone extremely clever in his own eyes as he taunt those he thinks he outwits.

These characters will scream about ad hominem attacks. Within reason, there is nothing wrong with ad homenem attacks, though I can see why they would not want any leveled at them. Jesus said a Christian should be a living example of Christianity, therefore an ad hominem attack should find little to latch onto. If it does, it is an indication that one is lacking in spiritual qualities and therefore possibly not the one you want to hitch your wagon to.

An internet forum is a battle of the wits and the Bible says it is the heart that matters. No wonder Anthony Morris is not enthused with it.

12 hours ago, Anna said:

I have seen people's comments to worldly people or opposers in the comments sections of a public news article and I have sometimes cringed

Same here.

12 hours ago, Anna said:

However, discussion forums such as this one, as opposed to news articles, are rarely visited by worldly people or by people of other faiths I imagine. I feel they have better things to do than to try and make head or tail of our discussions

Yes.

Even so, I am not quick to think I am in the clear, although what I say is unfailingly supportive. For all I know, someone is saying "what do you make of that squirrely Tom fellow on the WNMF?"

I remember a District Overseer dismayed that whatever he had said last time had been ignored. When he inquired, he was told it had been assumed he was speaking of others. He ended by saying: "No, brothers, that counsel was for you - and not those bad brothers of Pennsylvania."

12 hours ago, Anna said:

There are many websites set up by the friends. Some missionaries have these to post experiences and photos from the field. Some like @TrueTomHarleyhave one to post

I don't even say that I am a Witness on my site. Obviously it can be read between the lines, but it is not plainly stated. I do get emails asking if I am or not. I don't link to the jw.org website, either, though I can. I don't do it because I think it imputes my idiosyncrasies - we all have some - upon them. I don't wear any of those pins or logos or designer prints. It's just me, but I don't like them. I am not a billboard. I don't wear any commercial advertising either.

I didn't care for the notion of wearing the badge cards the complete day of the convention. I did it because they asked me to, as a means of advertising the convention. I got used to it and do so without any muttering at all. The cause is right.

In general, the internet is a terrible place to witness. Yet our people do it all the time. A brother will say online: "Do you want to know the truth about the cross?" The answer is 'NO.' Secular people do not care, and religious people do not wonder. The only people who come along are ideologues who live to argue. As often as not, it leads to name-calling.

People think they can assemble their own congregation on the internet. They can't. There is no way to gauge spirituality. There is no way to tell if you are speaking to a liar or a saint. There is no channel to dispense spiritual food. Nobody knows if I am a circuit overseer or if I am disfellowshipped. It is "uncontrollable," as @Noble Berean said, the land of the liars. And yet our people are inherently trusting - guileless. Sometimes it blows up in their face. Even if I am now a "good guy" who is to say I always will be? If a writing brother goes bad at Bethel, they can yank him and insert someone who has not. But if I have built a "following" and I go bad? No wonder the GB is not thrilled when our brothers dive into social media. 

8 hours ago, Anna said:

Yes, the skirts on the right have been photo-shopped to go over he knees of the sisters. I suppose some brothers were getting....ummmm...a little..... excited..... at seeing knees?

it did it for me. I had the picture pinned on my bathroom mirror.

3 hours ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

This does not mean "to stumble" someone because those who truly love God and His Word do not stumble - Psalm 119: 165
I am not saying that the Bible is not the Word of God, is not it?
I am not saying that Christ is not the Son of God.
I am not bringing another teaching.
These things could "stumble" but I have the utmost respect for the Word of God.

Maybe it is time to make peace with Israeli. True, I think he is a little full of himself, but that is not a crime. 

I just fret that there will one day be direction to go into the interior rooms and some will be like the sons of Lot, thinking a joke is being played..

I fret that someone might become like those characters who were searching the scriptures, thinking they could thereby secure  life, oblivious to Jesus standing right before them.

The sister on the right is named Waldo.

Also, the article I am recalling would have appeared in the early 80's. So it is not the one referred to above, which is 1999.