TrueTomHarley

8 hours ago, Claudia Sanchez said:

I heard that you guys add words that aren't in the manuscripts making it your "interpretation"

You heard wrong.

8 hours ago, Claudia Sanchez said:

and in your latest version you also conveniently added the word "Governing Body" to it that was not there in your previous versions

You heard wrong.

7 hours ago, Claudia Sanchez said:

The Catholic Church runs hospitals, food banks, shelters that assist the entire world and have been doing so for over a thousand years.

This should always be acknowledged. We don't do it. They do.

If it were done in addition to, not instead of, the work Christ primarily assigns his followers, it would put them head and shoulders above anyone else. (assuming good moral standards elsewhere)

The illustration I like is of the couple who hires a babysitter to care for the children. When they return, they find the children neglected and the babysitter has painted the ceiling. Even though the ceiling did need painting, they are not happy.

8 hours ago, Claudia Sanchez said:

The JW's make a big deal about sending water to people in Houston who have lost thier homes..... and by that I mean THEIR OWN PEOPLE..... Talk to me when you guys are actually working to help humanity in general

The reason Jehovah's Witnesses do not rebuild the whole city is that they are mostly volunteers using vacation time, which is not unlimited. The answer is for all other groups to be similarly mobilized.

8 hours ago, Claudia Sanchez said:

I would say actions speak louder than words.

Yes. Would that each Catholic was involved in the noble works you speak of.

10 hours ago, Witness said:

It is an undeniable fact that the Governing Body relies on “Helpers” and a writing department, to produce Wt’s unhealthy “spiritual food”, instead of those appointed by Christ. 

A snitch at Bethel told me 47 of those Helpers were caught shoplifting from boutiques last month and that was the reason for the article.

Also, CNBC has reported, or should have, that over 6000 boutiques went out of business last year due to customer theft. It is a crisis rivaling the one of opioids. A spokesman for the industry said: "If only more religious organizations would talk about how the flying scroll of Zechariah condemns stealing instead of trying to spin it in airheaded ways."

17 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

You once said that you envied me because I NEVER take even intended insults as insults.

Me neither (usually).

22 hours ago, Jay Witness said:

But God, no no no. No such thing can happen. It's absolutely pathetic really that we followed and accepted the story that a piece of fruit was taken and eaten. Nobody killed. If our worst nightmares come true and this in fact did happen hahaha....We all get executed for somebody else's crime. But, hey! I wouldn't have eaten that fruit if I had been there! Doesn't matter. Die, sucker.

This is an usually acidic speech from you.

22 hours ago, Jay Witness said:

Apparently it would seem gods original purpose for man was to be naive and naked. With the intellectual capacity of A 7year old

Just how wise have you become since leaving the faith?

1 hour ago, Jay Witness said:

Why don't you all just move to North Korea where that style of communication is the law of the land?

Um - did you get stiffed on Christmas morning or something? It sounds as though you may have been very naughty. But there is always next year. Why don't you look at things afresh for the new year. Even though we don't recommend this sort of thing, it would make a fine New Year's Resolution.

On 12/15/2017 at 8:13 PM, Matthew9969 said:

Well there is a video that tells them Jehovah will kill them if they don't pay attention at the meetings or are sleepy,

No, it doesn't tell them that - how can you be such a child?

Still, I will concede that it is a bit, um - not subtle. But it teaches a lesson that adults have hammered at children since the beginning of time - pay attention. If you don't despise the cause you will have no problem with it.

The zealots of New York State bombard me with a host of PA's that regularly spoil my mood. One emphasizing the value of school shows  a little girl hopelessly lost in class because she missed some school. She can't even make out the teachers voice, which is muffled to her, as though she was underwater.  The concluding logo reads 'every minute of school matters.'

The poor child missed a few minutes of school and now she is dumb as a fence post. You should hunt up that video so you can complain about it.

2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

In searching for a "soul-mate" remember this basic fact .... a person who does not love dogs you do not need to know .... and a dog who loves and respects it's human guardian, you do need to know.

Both the dog, and the person.

 

A very good friend of mine loves dogs. On any return visit he will remember the name of the dog but not the people. Sometimes he begins by asking specifically for the dog. This approach often wins him an ear more than if he had just said something standard, though I don't think he does it for that reason. He's just nuts about dogs.

4 hours ago, Sam Anya said:

I never experienced what living with a soul mate is like

I don't think many have. I don't buy the model. I think it causes people to give up too easily once they find their spouse is not the soul mate they thought he/she was. Love is a muscle - think agape love - that grows as you exercise it. Having done so, it makes both of you better persons.

Of course, you do not stack the odds against you. You start with the most compatible person you can find. But the success rate for arranged marriages is greater than that of soul-mate ones, which argues against the latter. 

http://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2010/09/love-marriage-and-soulmates.html

9 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

In this case, I happen to know that he is not slow as some people consider slowness. I happened to catch a glimpse of some of his more short-lived posts that the moderators disallowed. This particular one, slipped through the crack, as it were.

Have they disallowed some? I thought that was only @allensmith28 or allen of some other number. Gasp! Has it ever happened to me (beyond the one obvious one)?

I haven't entirely figured out Trom. Not only must I apply the finishing touches but also the starting touches. No matter. I like him. There's a great many I haven't figured out.

Oh wow! Oh wow! Oh wow!

I just read that archaeologists have been exploring in the desert plains of Pennsylvania. Under the Great Pyramid of Pittsburgh they have discovered the last words of Charles Taze Russell.

GASP! All religious and pop history must be rewritten! His final words, long attributed to someone else, are:

And now, the end is near
And so I face the final curtain
My friend, I'll say it clear
I'll state my case, of which I'm certain

I've lived a life that's full
I've traveled each and every highway
But more, much more than this
I did it my way

Regrets, I've had a few
But then again, too few to mention
I did what I had to do
And saw it through without exemption

I planned each charted course
Each careful step along the byway
And more, much more than this
I did it my way

Yes, there were times, I'm sure you knew
When I bit off more than I could chew
But through it all, when there was doubt
I ate it up and spit it out
I faced it all and I stood tall
And did it my way

I've loved, I've laughed and cried
I've had my fill my share of losing
And now, as tears subside
I find it all so amusing

To think I did all that
And may I say - not in a shy way
Oh no, oh no, not me
I did it my way

For what is a man, what has he got
If not himself, then he has naught
To say the things he truly feels
And not the words of one who kneels
The record shows I took the blows
And did it my way

Yes, it was my way

Sociologists predict that the ranks of Jehovah's Witnesses will explode - swelled by the ranks of people who love the new emphasis on independence. And - NO, this cannot be true! But it is! 

He wrote it in the year 607!

That science is great stuff. Pour me a double-shot of it.

2 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

He was thinking of BM in another sense:

I realize he is just playing. This is no slam on him. But

I like the Peter Sellers movie Being There in which Chauncy very slowly explains to political leaders how one season follows another. They treat him with the greatest deference, and assume that he is speaking so slowly so as to allow them to grasp the economic implications of allowing the business cycle to play out.

In actuality, he is a mentally challenged man who has difficulty recalling the order of the seasons.

13 hours ago, Witness said:

The article states:  “Usually, only one side of a scroll was used, so this scroll clearly contains a weighty and serious message.”

Is literal “stealing” from a clothing boutique weighty enough for such a vision? 

Seemingly no. But within context, yes.

First of all, the scroll of Zechariah specifically condemns stealing - it is a full 50% of its message. You would think that a person who quotes more scriptures than every other commenter combined would have noted this.

This is too much - it really is. One wonders if Witness herself does not steal from boutiques, for she declares trivial and irrelevant the actual message of the scroll. Instead, she applies it to the theocratic organization that does not recognize her authority.

The context of the paragraph, which merely follows the lead of the Bible - offering a practical example of theft that young people especially will identify with - is the spiritual paradise that Jehovah's Witnesses enjoy. It does not take much to destroy a paradise. One sicko inserted one razor blade in one apple and the celebration of Halloween changed forever.

At the Regional Convention I can drop my wallet and be reasonably certain it will turn up at the lost and found. Can I do that outside of the spiritual paradise? There is a reasonable chance that the wallet will come back to me. But with the money within it? Unlikely. It may happen. But I will not hold my breath.

Teaching not to steal at a very mundane level is the very stuff of Christianity. It is what makes all the rest of it work. I both admire the GB (and also suspect they are naive) in that they teach what needs to be taught without regard for self-appointed experts who will invariably seize upon their material and try to beat them over the head with it. They need better PR. Or maybe they don't. Maybe it is just me who thinks they do. Jesus didn't seem too concerned about PR, either. 

Here is a 14 year-old girl who sexted an explicit picture of herself to her boyfriend via Snapchat - and he spread it about widely. Guys will do things like that and girls should not be dumb.

https://www.rt.com/usa/414031-aclu-girl-selfie-child-porn/

She is looking at 10 years felony jail time for violation of Minnesota's child-porn law. The ACLU spokesperson defending her says this is a "teachable moment" for parents to inform the girl that her actions have consequences. Tell me about it.

It is also a "cautionary tale," the ACLU adds. Yes. It IS cautionary for a 14 year old trying to live in an insane world supplied her by adults that pushes powerful social media tools, a sexually promiscuous culture, and then ten years for making use of them.

Only RT.com picks this story up (besides local media), probably in a quest to embarrass the West, but that is hard to do because the West routinely embarrasses itself yet feels no embarrassment. To the contrary, it parades around in its wisdom. Meanwhile – ‘wisdom from the mouth of babes’ – the girl says “Sexting is common among teens at my school, and we shouldn’t face charges for doing it. I don’t want anyone else to go through what I’m going through.” Of course. It is a no-brainer. It is not that what she did wasn’t wrong – it is that the entire adult world should be prosecuted ahead of her. That way, there will be no room left in jail for the child.

In a greater context, the story highlights the absolute failure of the world to vanquish pedophilia, which it has declared public enemy #1 - with its frothing take-no-prisoners, pulling-their-hair out frustration over making no dent in the pandemic, and so wildly overswinging to compensate. It is the frenzied carpenter who misses the nail and then furiously hammers ten times more, again missing each time. This is how it is with zealots who see their cause and nothing else – and the world is full of such people.

It mirrors the Arizona law of 2015 criminalizing contact with the private areas of any child under 15 REGARDLESS OF INTENT. Prosecutors did not back down even when it was pointed out that the law criminalizes parents changing diapers. No “sane or reasonable prosecutor” is going to misuse the law that way, they said. That is reassuring, but what about the insane and unreasonable ones? Will the law be repealed? Not easily. Just try repealing it and political enemies will scream you are being soft of pedophiles – no politician dares risk that.

Meanwhile, Jehovah’s Witnesses, of all people, get caught in the cross-fire of pedophilia for doing what no other religion attempts to do. Where there are reports of wrongdoing in their midst, they investigate, so as to keep the congregation morally clean – an obligation they feel before God. There is the unfortunate by-product that their name is always attached to pedophiles within their ranks, something that happens nowhere else. No other faith dreams their members should actually apply Christian conduct in their lives. No other faith looks into such things – preach Sunday and be done with it - and thus rarely learn of them. Thus pedophiles, who appear to be every third person on the planet, especially when the statute of limitations is forever, and the 14-year old and folks changing diapers are included, are never ever identified with any religion (unless they are clergy), with but a single exception.

The book I am almost finished with about Witness persecution in Russia will contain individual chapters on all charges made against Witnesses. ‘Pedophilia’ will be one of them, even though the subject did not arise there, strangely. It has arisen most everywhere else and it is only a matter of time there. The Russian embassy to the U.S. recently did mention the topic in a tweet, attempting to justify its ban – the first such mention I have ever seen, despite years of flinging dirt in that country to see what will stick.

Even my shoving match with @Ann O'Maly over who has the best child-protective video is in the pedophile chapter.

23 minutes ago, Queen Esther said:

Why  men  often  have  fun  making  such  of  comparisons ??  ;-((   UGH.... 

I am ashamed to be one.

8 hours ago, SuziQ1513 said:

I hope I don't come across as lecturing you or seeming insensitive, but I  wanted you to get an idea of where I'm coming from.  I do understand your deep feelings and know we all cope in different ways.   As sisters, we can support each other by honestly sharing those feelings (which I'm glad you did), having a good cry and a good laugh ( I can be more humorous than I'm being right now).   So I would say, "Hang in there sis! "  

Thank you, Suzi. I'm afraid the raucous crowd here were not able to help much. You came through with just the right word at the right time. Best wishes to Shirley

However, I have found a major flaw in your comment

8 hours ago, SuziQ1513 said:

My moto is:  Men are like parking places, the good ones are taken and the rest are handicapped (-:    

What makes you think that the ones taken are any good?

4 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

It's just like Abraham Lincoln said:

• You can't believe everything you read on the Internet.

He never said that!!

He was hooked on the internet. He believed every word. It's well known.

I suspect the following is closer to SJ's last coherent words:

Oops. I take it back. It is not JTR. It is newbie @Nathan Russell who is the true prophet. My bad. GASP! You don't think he is related to you-know-who?

I think even @admin was taken in, and he is one smart cookie! Ah well - I fell for the fake story last week about Ringo finally admitting that Paul had really died and that a look-alike contest winner was recruited as replacement meant to be temporary at first but retained when everyone fell for it. How could I have been so dumb? Ah, but I remember how the initial reports absolutely mesmerized the college crowd back then and my roommate urged me (unsuccessfully) to install a reverse gear in my turntable to play all Beatles songs backwards in search of clues - 'Turn me on, dead man.'

Is 'the news' another one of those hills and mountains' that used to be dependable but is now quicksand?

4 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

A quick search on the words of the longer speech on Google returns articles admitting that those close to him know that the speech is not from Steve Jobs.

Yes. It stinks to high heaven. It is a church speech inserted by churchy people. Were we an underhanded people, we might have done it ourselves. The sentiments are true - I have no problem with them. But it is inconceivable that he would ever have said it, methinks.  The 'Oh Wow! Oh Wow!' comes across as more accurate, and for once, JTR is a true prophet.

Hmm. Did he really say this? And how do we know he is not draining our smartphones from the beyond?

3 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

PS. Interestingly, Bill Haley & His Comets embarked on the first ever rock and roll band world tour, starting in the UK, in 1957. Would that count as a celestial phenomenon?

My Skinny Minnie is a crazy chick.

 

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

That's what a lot of people at Bethel must still think. Can't blame them, I guess. But this bit of history is rarely described as it actually happened

Ah well. The smoking gun began smoking two or three concurrent generations before my time. Should I make it into the new system, then I will be living forever and if they try it again I will catch them in the act!

17 minutes ago, tromboneck said:

"heck"...foul language? What planet are you on? What is it an euphemism for? Please?!

Hecko, Trom. Nice hearing from you.

1 hour ago, Foreigner said:

Perhaps. The last time I looked, it has been scrutinized by skeptics since writing became a form of communication. However, I don’t see anywhere in scripture that our *faith* in GOD should be equal to the “faith” in the Babylonian Chronicles. Then, the weight of evidence becomes more in the theories of men than that what is actually written in God’s INSPIRED word, scripture. 

Yes. If you are going to go hogwild over critical thinking, then go all the way. Turn it upon the Bible itself. The reason we can look at the Bible the way we do is because we have 'tasted and seen that Jehovah is good.' It is experience that determines how we look upon things. But if you hail from the world of criticism, you cannot conceive of unity. You have never seen it. Leave these people to their own devices and there is no Bible book written as presented. Every one of them is a hash of conflicting authors with warring agendas. It is the only reality these scholars have ever observed and it colors all of their scholarship.

Bethel will never let go of 607, I don't think, because it enabled them to hit the nail on the head. The entire world only goes to war for the first time ever once in all millenia and they hit the year. Other years are known for various world leaders losing their library cards. Nothing packs the punch of 1914. If the entire world going to war concurrently for the first time ever isn't peace being taken from the world, what is? 

Even if the overlapping generations threaten to separate - and I wouldn't hold my breath on that - they could simply say that a generation is a loose term of a certain time period - say, like the 'industrial age.' In 1974 a brief snippet in the Watchtower quoted some source with that outlook, and I recall thinking that that view might surface again some day. @JW Insider can find it, no doubt. It was in the Watchtower's equivalent of 'watching the world' - a series that ran for awhile of 3 items to a page.

A few weeks ago there appeared in the meeting the Kingdom Rules book on Isaiah 11.  Discussing the return of the Jews from Babylonian exile and how they would be encouraged by Isaiah's prophesy about the animals, it said: "The lion would eat straw in the sense that it would not devour the Jews' cattle." They didn't have to do it. They could have said "God will supply them with bales of hay in order to feed the lions." Okay? They are not hung up on whether words are literal or figurative. 'Generation' will go more unconventional yet if it has to.

I am handicapped in the 607 discussion by not knowing anything about it. But it is less of a handicap then one might think. @Ann O'Maly trots out the 100 year old quote that profane history cannot be trusted because it is written by men of conflicting motives in a Satan-controlled world. She hopes anyone reading the quote with think the GB stupid. The quote differs hardly at all with 'history is written by the victors,' which she probably quotes with an air of superiority in other discussions. @Arauna pointed out before what anyone with discernment knows already - that the land of scholarship is one of big egos (she was speaking Egyptology, I think, but it is across the board) where the 'victors' to all they can do discredit whoever they have temporarily out-argued - defunding them, even banning them from access to materials. 

You don't go slobbering over critical thinking as the be-all and end-all. It is too easily outmaneuvered by other interests. 

37 minutes ago, Anna said:

These facts cannot be proven by profane history, because such history is made by men who acted as agents of Satan’s empire and hence were unreliable

This sounds ignorant.

"History is written by the victors." This sounds learned and it is accepted wisdom today.

How are the two statements fundamentally different?

1 hour ago, Anna said:

Like we need to worry about that. I am sure she ran off after JTR's meme, never to return. The poor woman.

Fortunately for her the old boy is married at the moment, hopefully for good.

On 6/8/2017 at 8:07 AM, JW Insider said:

Did she think, perhaps, that your memes contained a hint of insensitivity, or something even worse?

Obviously the two women needed to have their heads examined.

9 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I coulda worked it out on my old holstered log-log slide rule, but it had so many nicks and gouges in it from sword fighting that it was unusable for calculations.

An old-timer told me of when he was fiddling with his slide rule at McDonalds. A young employee asked him what it was and how it worked. He showed him. The kid's eyes grew big: "Wow! You should patent that! You'd make a fortune!"

But we are running away with the thread of @Shirley Ann Lowery and I feel guilty about that. Especially as she is a newcomer and hers is a concern that many have had.