TrueTomHarley

On 9/18/2017 at 5:56 PM, Shiwiii said:

I have NEVER, EVER seen this. I have been to plenty of Church's worldwide (Baptist, Protestant, non Denominational, Lutheran, Catholic, and the list goes on)  and have not come across this even once. If you have, then I suggest you reach out to them and ask them why. I think you may be just regurgitating the propaganda spread by the wt and not really ever experienced this either. 

You're joking! The remark seems almost too disingenuous to answer.

I was raised United Presbyterian. Our family received pledge envelopes to put in the collection plate at services. Put in the amount pledged. Like any charity, a pledge was used as the basis to try to secure a greater pledge. My non-churchgoing dad even had words with the pastor about it, since my mom did not work outside of the home, thus he was the one who ended up paying.

My sister still is Presbyterian, Reformed. She tithes 10%. It is what's done.

What seems more trusting in God to you - a contribution box in the back where people may or may not give anonymously, or a collection plate passed through the rows and everyone nearby will know just how much one puts in?

On 9/18/2017 at 5:56 PM, Shiwiii said:

If you have, then I suggest you reach out to them and ask them why.

I think you would have to be pretty obtuse to ask this question. I think I know why.

13 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The last six times I challenged you to prove I was a liar with just ONE instance out of 7,000 or so posts, you choked, and were not able to do so.

There was the statement you made that the sole purpose of the law was to serve for our happiness.

Not only is it incorrect, but it is an untruth that underlyies ALL of your incessant bellyaching. It's not about us.

You clearly think it is. At least, your comments clearly indicate you think it.

There is such a thing as the sanctification of God's name, you know. 

On 9/15/2017 at 2:15 PM, Shiwiii said:

I thought that the wt did't ask for money? Or is it literally about a plate being passed? 

I noticed that in the past few years, lots and lots of property has been sold in Brooklyn and surrounding areas as well as some kh's. Why this sudden grab for money? In addition to this, we can see in the screen shot above that credit cards are now an option? Really? Whatever happend to what Russell said way back when? Here is a quote from next weeks wt study that quotes yesteryear:

It is a sin to tell persons who would like to donate to their cause of choice how to do it?

In recent weeks I have been helping a relative who has fallen on hard times. She is unable to work full time and what work she does is at $9.00 per hour. To my astonishment I find hers is a tithing church - is yours one of those, Shiwiii? - and she gives 10% to her income to it. It is given in a way so it can be kept track of - in pledge envelopes in the person's name.

I do not know that it is required. She might be able to work out a deal with them, but the point is she would have to. They did help her out a bit with their food kitchen for a time, but with 10% tithing, I'm sure they have made it back several times over.

My point is that at the Kingdom Hall, I can give 50% of my income or nothing at all. Nobody knows. I have to go back to a contribution box at the back of the auditorium to donate. No one knows if I do or not. Nobody approaches me. These is no collection taken, certainly no pledge envelopes, and unless I choose to use checks (or credit card at assemblies), it is completely anonymous. Even if I do use such things, it is only the account servant who notices.

The Witness are the least donation conscious of any religion out there. Vent your indignation, @Shiwiii, on the 10% tithe churches, of which there are many, and after that, on the ones that track donations through pledge envelopes, of which there are many more, and after that, on the ones that use peer pressure public pass the plate collections, which constitutes just about everyone else.

Way back in the day, Merrill used to tell me about his old church, where music accompanied the collection, and attendants shook the plates at the end of long poles in beat with the music. Put some coins in and the congregation would hear a CHINK! CHINK! CHINK! It's quiet money they wanted.

13 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The JW singer Prince ... lived a lifestyle, and had associates both personal and professional that you and I would be disfellowshipped for.

If a loony-bin liar carries on about the GB, it is 'one of those things.' Everyone knows his pathetic hatred.

But if he starts lying about Prince, MY PRINCE, THEN he has crossed a line of decency. Before he slanders the man, he should list each transgression he thinks he 'got away with' accompanied by proof and um - to quote his constant refrain - "FACTS!! DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHAT FACTS ARE?! " without which rants are worth (to use his favorite words)

        "ZIP - ZERO - NADA"

I think he will not find any.

5 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Turns out that all 4 of the gospel writers are also anonymous.

All anonymous! None of it's any good! No one was qualified!

I'm quitting this religious gig and enrolling in college! There everyone is qualified. I know they are because they all went to college themselves.

I just hope that idiot dropout Bill Gates doesn't come around or the ghost of Steve Jobs. They are not qualified either and I just trashed my iPad and my laptop on that account. If my wife can prove she has a Home Economics degree, I'll ask her to make me coffee.

13 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The moment has arrived. right here on the World Media News forum, to begin a civil and informed discussion - the first one ever about anything.

And just think how pleased @adminwill be. He tries to boast among fellow forum hosts about his heavy traffic. "Yeah, but they're all religious nuts - friends of that biddy @The Librarian," they say, and they laugh at him. Just think how his stature will rise if he can boast of the first civil discussion EVER between climate change adherents and deniers.

4 hours ago, Anna said:

Now that's what I'm talking about. It makes so much more sense, and I hate to think that this extreme clamp down we have now could have something to do with "politics" rather than spirituality. There are always reasons for change that we may not be aware of, and sometimes they may actually have little to do with the Bible.

I don't think anything of significance has changed since the 74 article. There is a bit of counsel designed so that persons do not get overly casual with disfellowshipping just because it is a relative, but there is nothing fundamentally different. And it is just counsel, albeit strong counsel. But it is nothing more. Having said that, I have never been there. But the things Franz speaks of today would not get one in hot water. Certainly not The Boot.

Could it cost one privileges in the congregation? Dunno. But if it does, it does. Life goes on without privileges.

And the advise I gave our very own Rocket Man is actually good counsel. If anyone is paranoid, take a screen shot of the FAQ and carry it around with you. And then carry on in accord with it.

On 9/15/2017 at 4:53 PM, Shiwiii said:

On 9/15/2017 at 4:09 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

Who can say how much of the NWT translation was farmed out to experts

who can say ANY of it was? There is a reason why the translators remained anonymous, so they didn't get laughed at. This is a classic attempt at humble-bragging by the wt. 

The Watchtower Study today was on the themes from Psalm 147. I was so happy. I'd wanted to talk about those themes for some time. 

But then paragraph 2 or 3 said that the author of Psalm 147 is unknown. I slammed my iPad down in disgust and stalked out of the auditorium. Anonymous? They're wasting my time with an anonymous Bible writer? How do I know he is qualified?

He just remained anonymous so he wouldn't get laughed at. What possible other motive could there be?

Now that the cop was exonerated in the St. Louis shooting, the city braces for a third night of protests. A solution is needed. Here is one written last year.

"In the course of their job, police shoot hundreds of people per year. How should one report this? Put all shootings on TV. All of them. Run them 24/7 in the order in which they occur. Create a dedicated channel: The Shooting Channel. Make it freely available. Give every network a cut so no one will complain about ratings. Promote ‘The Shooting Channel’ heavily. Ban shootings on any other channel.

Put white-on-black shootings on. Put black-on-white shootings on. Put black-on-black shootings on. Put white-on-white shootings on. Put Hispanic-on-Methodist shootings on. Put Buddhist-on-nudist shootings on. Put redneck Alabama white-on transgendered Vietnamese shootings on. Put them all on. Let viewers decide for themselves which shootings are significant and which are yawners. Otherwise, the newspeople will cherry-pick their favorites and start a race war."

What were there - about 5 or 6 highly hyped shootings that summer? They culminated with another shooter taking out several Dallas police officers, so much had rage been stoked. Did not the news media suddenly switch to 'love-in with police' mode to atone for their very different mode just before? 

Two of the shootings were not intentional white on black shootings at all, though they were both hyped that way. There was the black man shot in Florida. He was not the target. He was caretaker for an autistic white man with a toy gun that fooled the cop - the cop got spooked and missed his target. The other was the white cop in Charlottesville whose actions triggered several days of violence. Turned out he was not a white cop at all but a black cop. Both incidents were initially reported as 'white cop shoots black victim' and hyped as proof the police were racist. Neither correction was more than a buried footnote when the facts came to light. Why does the media do this? Not for me to say. But 'The Shooting Channel' will solve it.

The italicized words are from 'No Fake News but Plenty of Hogwash,' an ebook that is not exactly flying off the shelf as it ought but I hope to remedy that here. The solution proposed would never come about, but only for monetary reasons. Insofar as public information can cool rage before it begins, it is the answer. Perhaps ALL police shootings should result in community outrage - that is for others to decide. Perhaps there IS racism within the police, but is not demonstrated by highlighting just a hand-selected few shooting incidents. When a study was made of the Philadelphia Police force, released in 2015, it showed blacks were more likely, not less, to be shot by a black or Hispanic officer than a white one, as the former were more likely to experience 'threat misperception.'

https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/702101

2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

it drives my wife crazy

I can understand that.

5 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

On 9/15/2017 at 4:09 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

Since jw.org is translated into 900 languages, it seems clear that the prestigious universities that teach language ought to come crawling to us, and not the reverse.

For general concepts and ideas ... that is good enough ... but if they were translating Aircraft Maintenance Manuals ... I would take the bus.

The other way to look at this that is (for once) not intended as a put-down is the saying I think you have cited yourself:

If you can do something, do it. If you can't do it, critique it. If you REALLY can't do it, teach it

On 9/16/2017 at 5:54 AM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

.... perhaps a new thread should be created for a science lesson I could talk for days about.

Come on, big boy - have at it. Seriously. I really want to see it. I will even allow that I probably fall into your camp on this, but I want to hear the other side from someone informed yet not obnoxious or condescending and @JW Insiderseems good to go and I have extracted a promise from him to keep his submissions under the length of a phone book.

I probably won't join in much because I agree with @Queen Esther that it is not the prime issue for a Christian, but that does not mean it's not something well to hear both sides of. 

If you hang out on one side, you will think the other side global elitists who want to use concocted  'climate change' as a wedge to advance unlimited government intervention. If you hang out with the other side, you will think the climate change 'denyers' (itself a term of ridicule) are self-centered greedy people who gladly sell their own grandchildren down the river so they can enjoy their profits and high living now.

It is typical of the way the world addresses anything today and is the reason the system will not be missed when it is replaced by the kingdom. Two big stupid animals ramming each other with their horns: THAT is the image you want to send into outer space to tell any aliens how we run things here. 

The moment has arrived. right here on the World Media News forum, to begin a civil and informed discussion - the first one ever about anything. History will be made. In heaven they will say: 'you know, people can get along, they are not the basket cases we thought they were - maybe it's time to feel regret over our plans.' 'Why don't you be wise and make MY heart rejoice for a change,' says the Devil. 'Come on! Just once show that people outside of theocratic concerns can talk to the other side without resorting to hurling insults.'

Do not shrink back. Advertise advertise advertise the claims of one side or the other and let the inquisitive reader decide!

Besides, @James Thomas Rook Jr., don't think I don't know about your alter-ego. You are also using multiple accounts. You can't hide it from me. 

You are @Witness and @Ann O'Maly. besides JTR. Don't tell me otherwise. 

Your style gives you away.

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I do not have the ability, the will, or the energy to hold the Governing Body accountable to anything ... my hope is that they will HOLD THEMSELVES accountable if for no other reason that it is affecting the donations...

Whether they really care or not I do not know .... I try NOT to project what I think, as what THEY think

Why in the world would you assume I am speaking of you? The other guy looks a little slippery to me, you know. 

21 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Otherwise we are more interested in the ad hominem argument instead of the facts themselves.

I have run this by Dr. Adhominem and he has agreed to monitor any attacks and assess penalties.

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

.... perhaps a new thread should be created for a science lesson I could talk for days about.

Yes. Please do.

I would like to see this. I truly would. There are too many pundits who do nothing but shriek in sound bites and I don't know what is true. My impression thus far is that computer models predict, and have for some time, great global warming, but the actual data has not backed it up. When data does, it is only at the expense of ignoring data that doesn't.

Shrill alarmists scream Irma was the greatest hurricane ever and we should get used to seeing ones like this all the time. In fact, it is the seventh largest to hit the U.S. and the list of potent hurricanes show they are largely independent of year - they are not particularly increasing in frequency over time. Before Irma, there were 12 years when no hurricanes at all hit the continental U.S.

On the other hand, Andrew Cuomo, the NY governor said - and everyone knows this is true - 100 year floods are now happening every 2 years, so clearly something is happening.

Neither side acknowledges the other's existence and when they do it is to demonize them - typical of the way the world handles things these days.

Both @JW Insiderand @James Thomas Rook Jr. have proven capable of presentation and I do not see how either can hold the Governing Body accountable, though one may try.

3 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

Also, there are a plethora of scholars who do not, most of which are trained in Greek/Hebrew/Aramaic and Latin. 

Are they trinitarian or not? That's all you need to know. If they are trinitarian they will hate the NWT, because their beliefs dictate their scholarship.

If they are not trinitarian they will be okay with it. They will recognize it as a legitimate translation, with both strengths and weaknesses.

3 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

So it is of course likely that it was in the Septuagint because the old testament is where we find YHWH and the like.

You have just answered your own question. If it was in the Septuagint, then it should be in the NT, because when OT verses are quoted in the NT, the quotes are taken, not from the Hebrew, but from the Greek translation of the Hebrew - the Septuagint.

4 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

You like the nwt because the wt said so. You know as well as I that there was never a true scholar on the translation dept to create the nwt. It has been admitted by the gb as well as proven in court. 

This is stupid. 

I don't care if Franz's dog translated it. The fact is that it exists and it gets high scholarly marks. Witness the experts testifying with regard to Russia's attempt to ban it. Not their witnesses, of course, but everyone knows their witnesses couldn't translate their way out of a paper bag.

Not Trinitarian witnesses, either, because their beliefs dictate their scholarship instead of the other way around. And there are some who genuinely have trouble with 'Jehovah' in the New Testament - it is cutting edge based upon Septuagint fragments and not all want to cut so deep. But except for that, the NWT is very well received. 

Who can say how much of the NWT translation was farmed out to experts who, being Witnesses, also wished to remain anonymous like Franz so as not to distract from the true author of the work?

You want to find the 'qualifications' of the translators so you can gloat that they don't have any, in case they don't. How 'qualified' do you have to be with language? Put a baby in a bi-lingual home and he grows up knowing two, without any teaching at all. Put it in a tri-lingual home and it grows up knowing three. Okay, ancient language adds a degree of complication, but even so, it is just communication and that is humankind's oldest trick in the book. Since jw.org is translated into 900 languages, it seems clear that the prestigious universities that teach language ought to come crawling to us, and not the reverse.

It's the technique of the lazy lout who must know the qualifications of the translators to determine if the work is any good or not. Before my wife and I bought the home we now live in, we looked it over carefully for quality. We even hired an inspector. Satisfied, we moved in. We have no idea who actually built the house and have never lost a moment of sleep on that account. 

What? Do you think I am kidding? Do it. You have perfect cover.

Of course, to maximize your cover you might want to take down 10,000 or so graphics.

It could not have been a better fit. The water flowed from the throne of Ezekiel's temple, which could not have had literal fulfillment because they would have had to build it on a spring and they didn't.

Later during the same meeting, the Bible Study covered all the schools held throughout the organization. Comments thinned out as the study progressed because nobody had gone to the latter schools so they had nothing to say off the top of their heads.

Okay? The water is the 'life-giving' spiritual food. And where is it more manifest in the schools, some available to all and some more specialized? Yet the schedule for the Bible Study is months old. The schedule for the Bible reading? Maybe a century, as it is 'wash, rinse, and repeat.'

5 hours ago, Anna said:

I noticed something in our FAQ that could be very misleading to someone who didn't know any better: "What of a man who is disfellowshipped but whose wife and children are still Jehovah’s Witnesses? The religious ties he had with his family change, but blood ties remain. The marriage relationship and normal family affections and dealings continue". 

Does it? It does.

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I am 70 years old .... but I am expected to treat my real sister who was baptized in the 2nd grade, at 8 years old,  like dirt, and WORSE .... completely shunning her ...  when she turns 50 and decides she made a mistake getting baptized so young, or makes other mistakes common to  humans.

Cut out the FAQ question and answer, put it in your wallet by your driver's licence and be done with it. Sometimes I think you would not do so for fear that you would lose bitching privileges here.

4 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

Oops!...I've got to go......some gnats to strain.......

This is indeed a scandal, methinks.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not ignore education but they do redefine it. 

Theirs is primarily moral training and the Bible is the textbook. Secular skills they pick those up a la carte as necessary. They look bad on the Pew chart that way and @Jay Witnesscan gloat. But that does not mean it doesn't work.

Is it a good idea to focus primarily on moral training? if people are unloving, selfish and greedy, you are better off not educating them. They can do less damage that way. If plumbers and janitors had run the worldwide financial system in 2007 they might have found a way to beat the taxpayers out of a day's wage. Instead, it was MBA's who ran it, and they found a way to put us all in hoc forever.

3 hours ago, Birdie said:

My father, not being a Witness, is ever watchful of the JWs presentation

Not to worry. I'll call and lay a little bit of presentation on him for you.

 

3 hours ago, Birdie said:

Even videos

Hmmm.

30 minutes ago, Birdie said:

My story would be more, what not to do  A comprehensive volume

In fact, the circuit overseer did counsel me about my presentation.

Truetom strode into the room and slapped his Bible down on the bar. All heads turned at the sharp retort. All male heads, that is. All female heads had already swung around at his first appearance, smitten instantly by his pure animal virility.

“What will it be, mister?” asked the bartender uneasily, fidgeting in the presence of an indefinable yet unquestionable authority. “Milk,” Truetom replied and he said no more, so that the bartender began to wonder.

Presently it came to him: “Say, aren’t you Truetom, the world-famous door to door preacher?” Truetom looked up coolly. “What’s it to you?” he said. “Nothing, mister, really – I meant no offence. Here – let me pour myself a milk, too. In fact – HEY! EVERYBODY! TRUETOM IS HERE! MILK FOR EVERYBODY! A TOAST TO TRUETOM!”

“Is there anything about me that says ‘milktoast’ to you?” Truetom scowled, and milk ran out from the terrified man’s mouth. “I’m with the true religion and I DON’T DO MILKTOAST.”

“Sure, Mister, whatever you say,” stammered the bartender.

Truetom impaled him with a gaze. “It’s about time you understood a few things. “I’m TrueTom. I have a corporate agenda. I’m not afraid to play by the rules and I do what I’m told. Don’t tell me what to do because I’ll do it right away and sometimes a man doesn’t want what he’s asked for. You got that?” and the bartender murmured something incoherent as he wet himself.

An impossibly bosomed bimbo floozy, splitting the seams of her too-short skirt, saddled up to him. “They say in these parts that you’re pretty righteous, Truetom. Just how righteous are you?”

“I’d advise you not to try to find out,” Truetom stared her down. Undeterred, the brazen hussy placed her hand on his inner thigh and slowly moved it – not in the direction of his rugged boots. In a flash, Truetom whirled about and decked her with a single punch. Then he calmly resumed sipping his milk as she lay face down on the filthy floor.

When he was done he put down his glass and picked up his Bible. “I have a scripture for all you scum,” he said.  "It's found at John 8:15. 'You judge according to the flesh. I do not judge any man at all.'"

“Look, Truetom, we don’t want no trouble. I’ve got my own religion and I never talk about religion and politics anyhow – anything that matters I don’t come near – and I….” Truetom grabbed him by the neck and rammed his head into another verse he’d just looked up. “a slave of the Lord does not need to fight, but needs to be gentle toward all, qualified to teach, showing restraint when wronged.” – 2 Timothy 2:24

At length he put his Bible in its holster and turned. “Alright, I’m coming out!” Truetom hollered out the door to the townspeople amidst the pouring rain. “Don’t nobody raise no objections, or ‘viewpoints!’ If anybody raises an objection or viewpoint, I’ll preach to him AND I’ll preach to his wife AND I’ll preach to his kids. Don’t go cutting up no more wrong deeds or I’ll be back!”

He rode slowly out of town – dead center through the middle of the street, and nobody raised a word of reply.

3 hours ago, Cos said:

Mr. Wilson never studied biblical Greek and therefore his renderings are slanted to his doctrinal bias.

What is "biblical Greek?" Are you sure that is not just "Trinitarian Greek?"