TrueTomHarley

1 hour ago, J.R. Ewing said:

I believe TrueTom has finally defined the position here. It's NOT about him. It's also, NOT about anyone here. It's about applying scripture with its proper understanding, that intellects can err with their understanding. That's why God Choose those that are worthy to sanctify him, NOT JWinsider, TrueTom, Anna, etc.

With respect to you, J.R.Ewing, in my case, it is just me participating in an online discussion. I'm not trying to set forth any new understanding. I am not imagining I have Anyone's commission.

I am certainly not trying to set the Governing Body straight. Whenever I mention them, it is always to defend them and to try to get some characters off their backs.

So far as I am aware,  I am obedient to theocratic counsel in all respects, with the exception of just being here - since our direction is that it is wise not to hang out where they roll out the red carpet for apostates. However, I am no more guilty of this than anyone else, and I don't interact with them other than to occasionally knock them over the head with a brick.

None of the Witnesses here are typical. The typical one will apply theocratic direction on online association. Those here fall into two or three categories, from what I have seen. 1.) the new and/or naive, who think the internet a fine place to make friends, 2.) those who are disillusioned, perhaps over some injustice they have encountered, 3.) those who have chaffed at counsel.

Perhaps I can be a positive influence to these ones. When I write, it is partly (not solely) with that motivation. I probably shoot myself in the foot with frequent attempts at humor, but I have a taste for humor and I think  it is a reasonable way to respond to the absurdity that is to be found here.

28 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

But since this is an “open” forum according to the rules of this business endeavor, then what gives the “G.Concept” (TTH-A Persona of P&A) a reason to “forbid” someone, as quoted “means one is obsessively pushing one’s ideas”, from those that want to interject “truth” to the otherwise “untruthful”.

TTH again. Look, it's not about me, but is it becoming about me? I am unclear as to the meaning of the above. I don't know P&A, nor the Virginian.

"This is Brian Brexit. Things are developing fast with efforts to rescue The Librarian. Police forces planted a GPS tracking device in a donut they had reason to believe would be consumed by her - she eats so many. She destroyed it by biting into it, but she let loose with such a bellow that they located her with triangulation. We take you now to the not-any-longer secret hideaway of TrueTom where @The Librarianis being held hostage."

Choppa choppa choppa choppa choppa choppa choppa choppa choppa choppa choppa choppa choppa choppa choppa choppa choppa

THIS IS THE POLICE!! WE HAVE YOU COVERED IN OUR NEW HELIOCOPTER! GIVE YOURSELF UP! RELEASE THE LIBRARIAN!

KA-POW!!......WHIZZZZZZZZZZZIINNNNGGGGGGGGGGG........CLANK!!

WHOA! He's armed!! He must have pinched a rifle from JTR's arsenal! Back to Headquarters, Officer O'Maly! We'll pick up a Hostage Negotiator and play hardball!

2 hours ago, J.R. Ewing said:

Where do you get your direction from..., TrueTomHarley, Etc?  Everyone that is associated with the “Virginian”?

Yikes! TrueTom, TrueTom? Except for kidnapping @The Librarian, what has he done?

1 hour ago, Noble Berean said:

I feel like there's a lot more gray area in the Bible than the organization wants to let on.

If they did not recognize this they would not speak of tacking, or of 'the light getting brighter.' How can the light get brighter on a book that has been in their possession from Day 1 if it did not have gray areas?

1 hour ago, Noble Berean said:

I don't think it would hurt for the GB to apologize for some of its missteps

You have only to look at the political arena to see how well leadership by apology works. Does anyone EVER accept an apology? Or do they not just seize upon one as grounds for dismissal? They all have their own agendas there and most want to torpedo their opponent, not reform him. Most people accept that it is no piece of cake to look into the future and don't demand apologies. It is enough for the GB to carry on humbly and to express regret from time to time, as they did regarding 1975.

1 hour ago, Noble Berean said:

 I can't give a clear answer on how to make the organization better. I can only point out the things that aren't working right now.

Is there anyone who can't do this?

1 hour ago, Noble Berean said:

I believe the organization could move toward a more balanced and less dogmatic direction.

It is the complaint of every child toward a parent. But the parent takes his role seriously, all the more so as times get more dangerous. In my time, long ago, parents opened the door and off their children flew, not to reappear until mealtime. Parents hadn't a clue where they were. Today, conscious of greater danger, parents watch kids much more closely. Frequently the scriptures liken congregation authority to parenting. 

1 hour ago, Noble Berean said:

the organization could move toward a more balanced and less dogmatic direction

Like this (from the Revelation Book introduction)?   " "It is not claimed that explanations in this publication are infallible. Like Joseph of old, we say "do not interpretations belong to God?" (Genesis 40:8) At the same time, however, we firmly believe that the explanations set forth herein harmonize with the Bible in its entirety."

How would you improve upon that?

5 hours ago, Anna said:

Apologies to @JW Insiderfor causing a break in the thread.

He'll live.

5 hours ago, Anna said:

This brings to mind an instance a few years ago, which actually involved you (yes, really, lol) when I was reading your stories in "Sheep and goats" and someone criticized it

What was her name?

3 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

I am not suggesting a Governing Body shouldn't exist or that we shouldn't strive to follow along with them.

3 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

And furthermore, why does the GB get a free pass when they get things wrong?

What would you suggest?

1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I ALSO BURST OUT LAUGHING at the "mirror scene", and again when the Lawyer was in the Porta-potty, and the T-Rex ate him.

Notice how the T-Rex cocked its head like a puppydog.

9 hours ago, Arauna said:

  I think that very few people work on the teaching of Christ that we should lessen ourselves and be prepared to suffer for it as he did. Most Witnesses need to work on this. 

Absolutely. I have been lately communicating with an oaf who regularly launches vicious attacks at the Governing Body. He tipped his hand recently (IMO) to reveal his core difficulty - he thinks it is all about us. In fact, it is about the vindication of God's purposes and the sanctification of his name. Occasionally we take it on the chin as we yield to these greater things as the focus.

9 hours ago, Arauna said:

sometimes have to step back and be happy with being a no-body and not achieving anything of great significance!  ....all of us should investigate ourselves to see if that spark of putting ourselves in front and grudging others a place in the sun is still part of our personality.  

Having said that, I sometimes get discouraged that intellectual work is often misconstrued as  'showing off.' If I were an electrician, I would receive nothing but praise for developing that skill to the full. If I relished a certain electrically challenging project, no one would say I am being full of myself. Nobody would question my motive. Nobody would accuse me of attempting to stand out and achieve recognition to be admired by my peers. I will even concede that @Ann O'Malyhas a point in her carrying on about stifling talent - it is just that she takes a grain of truth and tries to bake it into a seven layer cake that I object to.

In my case, I write because I am not good at anything else. If someone should say - like @The Librarian -  'good writing!' of course I am pleased. But it is no different than a hands-on worker being commended for craftsmanship.

Jehovah's Witnesses are top-heavy with persons who work with their hands. Far from being a negative, this is added proof that Jehovah's Witnesses follow the pattern of first century Christianity. A carpenter is less likely to become too big for his pants than an educated statesman. Working class people came into the truth in droves back then - less so, the upper classes. It is exactly what one should expect. Nonetheless, it is not as though intellectual talent is a pejorative. Leave @JW Insider alone. Or at least, if you criticize him, as can arguably be done, do not do so in a way so as to imply that he is trying to outshine his brothers.

2 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:

I recently saw Jurassic Park, the new movie which was a lot of nonsense

I liked the part when they glimpse in the sideview mirror the Tyranasaurus chasing them. It is close enough that it looks like it may swallow their Jeep, and the mirror caution says: 'Objects in mirror are closer than they appear.'

My kids gave me a dirty look on this one. The heroes were clambering atop the false ceiling when a mean dinosaur lunged at them. It was so over the top that I burst out laughing at what was supposed to be a very frightening moment.

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

SINCE YOU CONSTANTLY MAKE THAT TAUNT TO CALL YOU ON AN UNTRUTH, I DIDN'T THINK YOU WOULD RUN FOR THE HILLS WHEN SOMEONE TAKES YOU UP ON IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PRAY TO JEHOVAH, YOU BIG BABY!!!

IF HE LIKES YOU, HE WILL SOMEHOW UNCOVER THAT YOUR EX IS A BIMBO, WHICH WILL FREE YOU TO REMARRY!

OR DO YOU NOT BELIEVE JEHOVAH IS CAPABLE OF DOING THAT?

..........

BESIDES, SINCE YOU CONSTANTLY MAKE THAT TAUNT TO CALL YOU ON AN UNTRUTH, I DIDN'T THINK YOU WOULD RUN FOR THE HILLS WHEN SOMEONE TAKES YOU UP ON IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

4 hours ago, Anna said:

I agree with you wholeheartedly and that is why I find reasoning such as this one from the Nov. 2016 study WT a little disconcerting p.16, par. 9:

"Some may feel that they can interpret the Bible on their own. However, Jesus has appointed the ‘faithful slave’ to be the only channel for dispensing spiritual food. Since 1919, the glorified Jesus Christ has been using that slave to help his followers understand God’s own Book and heed its directives. By obeying the instructions found in the Bible, we promote cleanness, peace, and unity in the congregation. Each one of us does well to ask himself, ‘Am I loyal to the channel that Jesus is using today?’ "

I am misunderstanding what it's saying there? Anyone care to analyze this as they understand it?  And sorry, I know it's a little off topic.

I think it is an appeal that congregational unity is more important than individual opinion about doctrine.

Whenever the Governing Body issues direction on any doctrinal point, it may be that you, as a diligent student, noticed that point some time ago. If this was the world of churches, you would have gone out and started your own religion over it. How do you think there came to be so many sects and divisions among Christianity?

Instead, you essentially 'sit' on your opinion. Maybe the theocratic organization will come around to it someday. Maybe they will even in some way notice your expertise and seek you out on that account. At any rate, the responsibility is theirs, not yours.

It's a little dicey putting such opinion out there publicly because countless persons latch on whose only goal is to thwart Jehovah's Witnesses and what they stand for. Really - do you think the ones hostile would all be placated if the WBTS came around to a new opinion on just this one point? 

Still, as has been pointed out, not everyone with a different view of chronology has ill intent toward Jehovah's Witnesses. Maybe there is something to be said for the fact that we, too, acknowledge different views exist and they are not categorically wrong just because we did not say it first.

None of this is to be harsh to JWI. He is smart regarding these matters of chronology and I am not. It is easy for me to say 'zip it' because I don't know anything. I don't think he is writing here to gain disciples for himself, as some have accused. I think, rather, that he does not want to see theocratic interests take it on the chin because of a wrong understanding. One can hardly say that the organization has never been wrong before. He is just exploring ideas and I like that. But I am not sure it does not stir up more dissension than it is worth, which is not good. Ultimately, publishing doctrinal light is the responsibility of someone else.

I haven't figured this out yet. I probably will not succeed in doing so.

Many times you have challenged readers to point to even one thing you have said that is not true. I will take you up on your challenge now.

You just said an untruth, and it is a big one. It is fundamental to everything else you say:

2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The alternate explanation would have to be reasonable, show common sense, and the end result be merciful, and just ... and NOT HURT ANYONE ... which is the whole point of ALL Theocratic Law.

It's not about us. Not primarily. Primarily, it is about the sanctification of God's name and the vindication of his purpose. 'Not hurting anyone,'  though a good provision, is not as good as keeping God's name on high and his purpose undeterred.

Furthermore, though you have been very critical of the Governing Body, this understanding predates the Governing Body. It first emerged in Rutherford's day.

@b4ucuhear: "Is that what I should have told my sister? My younger sister was sexually molested by an elder. She stayed despite that without making waves, until she started to see other things she found deeply disturbing and then she did "move on" as you say. Actually, she shouldn't have "moved on" because later on, most of the elders (the bad ones) were either removed or disfellowshipped - half of them were apostate (but that's not all they were up to).... Still, 1 Timothy 5:24 will prove to be true if you wait, in one way or another."

Though I didn't think of it at the time, the passage I quoted had to do with the "superfine apostles" Paul had to battle. Elsewhere I said he was like Diatrophes. These jerks existed in the first century. It shouldn't be unexpected that they may have cropped up from time to time in the present. 

I re-listened to An Important Reminder recently. I loved that talk. Why does God permit suffering? Easy to answer. Why does God permit MY suffering? Suddenly hard to answer. You might remember the speaker develops three scriptural scenarios. The third is Uriah in the new system reading of how the letter he carried was from David to Joab authorizing his (Uriah's) murder. Wouldn't THAT be a hard one to forgive? But it get's worse. He would learn how Jehovah exalted David in time, even the son born to him and drop dead gorgeous Bath-Sheba, Uriah's stolen wife. [the obvious lesson here is to marry an unattractive woman, such as @The Librarian] Who could blame him if he concluded that with Jehovah, a Jew could do anything, but a Hittite, a man of the nations, was but dirt in his eyes.

The 'important reminder' referred to time and again is that it's not about us. It never has been. It is about the vindication of Jehovah's purposes. Even Abraham and Jacob (the other two examples offered) were not exempt from the ordinary travails - up and downs and injustices and hardships of this system of things. In fact, their special assignment brought on some troubles in excess of the run-of-the-mill stuff their contemporaries faced.

It's actually from @The Librarian - fine woman - that I learned our personal salvation was recognized as the issue of secondary importance to the vindication of God's name from as far back as Brother Rutherford's time. This is a good point. MY personal salvation as the topic that is the buzz of the universe doesn't quite cut it. Sanctification of God's name does. Thus (and here is the 6th reason I remain with the truth, come what may) the Jehovah's Witness faith is not, at root, selfish. Other church branches are. 'Me and Jesus' is the focus of most of them.

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

I started writing a book about the intrinsic  LOGIC of the Bible and how everything fits in perfectly - a few years back and decided to stop..... because I decided that I do not want to be competition for the slave..... Jehovah gave them the job to advertise the kingdom.... and I will not use what I learnt from the organization (even if I have a lot of my own ideas - to make money for myself.   I may later finish it and ask them if I can publish..... and if they do not like  ..... it is OK with me.  I am participating in the greatest work on earth - to teach others about Jehovah. 

The other way to look at it is that everyone writes about what they know best. I do. You, presumably, would be with your book. It seems silly that only JW writers should not be able to write about their topic of expertise. 

I can and do write of other things but it typically comes down to the same conclusion: 'such-and-such is a mess because we need God's kingdom to straighten things out." 

Write in such a way that you are not in competition - either offer personal accounts, anecdotes, current news items and how they relate - research that they would not likely do.

You said: "and I will not use what I learnt from the organization (even if I have a lot of my own ideas - to make money for myself"

I wrestled with this, too. But I am not Bethel and I have to pay the light bill. it's either write or Mickey D for me. Believe me, book proceeds do not make a significant dent, unless you hit mainstream, which is unlikely. It's just a hobby. A university professor  who has written a tome about Witnesses, as well as other books, tells me he is glad he did not quit the university - they don't exactly fly off the shelf.  Nonetheless, conscience of the moneymaking concern, I am working on a book "Dear Mr. Putin - Jehovah's Witnesses write Russia." It will be free for some months. 

(I tried to put this in a thread b/c I think what's-her-name would want me to do, but I can't figure out where to do it. It seemed obvious at one time)

This is Brian Brexit. I'm in Police Headquarters reporting on efforts to rescue @The Librarian, being held for ransom by TrueTom. Officer O'Maly, I imagine there has been much public outrage and pleadings that she be returned safely.

Well, not really, but you never know when that may start.

What progress have you made in locating her?

Zilch so far. However, a Dunkin Donuts has reported increased orders, 3 extra boxes a day picked up by a man in trench coat and dark glasses. So we planted a very clever electronic GPS listening device in one of the donuts and we expect the case to break wide open momentarily. Ah - we're picking up a signal now. Let's listen in!

CRUNCH!!  What the....There's a pebble in this donut!! Are you trying to kill me, TrueTom? I think I cracked a molar! You'd better pray you have a kidnapping rider on your dental plan. I'll clean you out!

For tomsheepandgoats.com, this is Brian Brexit reporting

14 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

what happens if a man or woman abandons their spouse FOREVER!

It's a little too soon to tell.

2 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

We sometimes make broad application of selected verses in God's Word as if there were no exceptions or as if they are true in every case. A legitimate example of this might be Heb. 6:18 "...it is impossible for God to lie." An example of another verse where we might not assume to make a broad application of is Proverbs. 16:7: "When Jehovah is pleased with a man's ways, he causes even his enemies to be at peace with him."

For about two decades, I was a really skilled janitor. I never cleaned for any kings.

More later

3 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Went to a historical Museum about the 2 world wars in Norway last week and saw the same phrase I have seen so many times -  1914 was the" year the world changed never to be the same again...."   It identified all the new kinds of weapons that had never been used in previous wars before..... so many....The battle of the Somme is still listed as one of the worst battles ever....

The 1914 collection

53 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

who merely "upvote" the posts

I am reluctant to upvote or downvote anything. If I upvote, it implies I agree with everything. If I downvote, it implies I agree with nothing. That is seldom the case either way.

Would not a ramp need to have been built to haul the stones upwards? Regardless of how many slaves employed, I have read it would have to be absurdly long for the pitch to be slight enough for the blocks to move - and even then, the blocks are heavy enough so as to destroy any inclined plane built. There is no trace of any ramp today. 

Just once, I would like to hear archeologists say: "My God, these people were stupid! It's a wonder they figured out how to procreate!" But no - it's always about how amazingly advanced they were! - a circumstance that surely flies in the face of evolution.

"As we enter day 3 - or is it 4, 5, or 6? - I mean, who really misses the old hen enough to keep track? - of the disappearance of @The Librarian, there are reports that her kidnapper, TrueTom, has become disheartened because his demand for ransom money has been met with laughter. This may be the least of his woes. The Librarian's personal physician, Dr. Mike 'Ace' Inhibitor, has contacted tomsheepandgoats.com to warn that the woman is a walking pharmacy and cutting her off from the drugs she is on will have dire consequences. Dr Inhibitor:"

"This is the problem you get into when you kidnap wheezing windbags like my patient. Without an adequate cushion, a friendly kidnapping and turn deadly. Even if we only count legal prescription drugs, it takes a dump truck to supply her."

Brexit: "What will happen when the effects of her current medications wear off?"

Dr. Inhibitor: "Let me put it this way: I'd prefer to be downwind of Chernobyl."

Brexit: "Thanks, Ace. A major escalation of the case that has captured everyone's - well, many of us - well, a few - well....oh alright, just my (sometimes) attention. For tomsheepandgoats.com this is Brian Brexit reporting. 

13 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I do not think that Jehovah is going to resurrect all those millions of people that died in the middle of the Oceans from Shipwreck, drownings, or burials at sea IN THE MIDDLE OF THE OCEAN! 

Nevertheless, a believer should never be cremated. What if you were resurrected on a windy day?

19 hours ago, The Librarian said:

Ibid. is like the word ditto.

She's nuts. IBID is the radicalized version of ISIS. I don't like them.

18 minutes ago, Brother Rando said:

A day in heavens time is a thousands years to us. It’s by this method we can measure time and where we are in the stream of time of the end

This is the verse we have not taken into account. I will.

The end will come in the year 2000017 - just around the corner.