TrueTomHarley

3 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

I'll respond to your wordplay directly. However, the sentence is "true" since as I was "censored" by the Librarian and "blocked" until I agreed to accept the warning given in private. Perhaps it wasn't made public but the sensor was made in private just like a judicial committee.

I can't believe I am putting in a good word for that ignorant and disgusting, donut-gorging, wine imbibing, pig-headed, gouty, anal-retentive, over-promiscuous, sorry excuse for a woman known as @The Librarian, but when her cohort slapped an A on me for abuse - an A that never ever ever ever ever ever goes away (oh - I just checked my profile - it did. Rats. She told me at the time it would not),  I had to admit that I had it coming. It also helped me to improve my writing. I learned to make my points as forceful without triggering any alarms for abuse. In fact, they are more forceful, for when someone detects you have stepped over the line and 'lost it,' they will discard your entire argument on that account.

"No discipline is joyous for the present, but grievous, but it makes for fine training, and besides, you wouldn't be disciplined if you weren't loved" or something like that. Now I know that The Librarian loves me, the old hen. You never had an entire thread taken down, Allen, as I have. Benefit from the old hag. You post fine content and you put much work into it. Don't allow it to be dismissed because of a too aggressive manner. If I can stand up with a appreciation for the filthy overbearing opinionated perpetually semi-drunken wench, so can you.

But now, no more on this from me, since she is getting her hackles up, discerning someone straying from theme. Even JWI is saying - 'Oh no! TTH! He always drags that JTR along with him and then it's goodbye to decorum!' The trouble is, much as I HATE to admit it and will disagree elsewhere, JTR has a point. If my off-topic remarks are going to be consigned to some tiny backwater, I won't bother making them in the first place. Everyone's time is worth something, even mine.

......"This is why I like the idea of writing committees because this ensures that most agree with what must be written before it is published.  Yes there are always domineering individuals but I do think that this is eventually sorted out - and when it comes to history or evaluating ideas - one has to evaluate everything that is available."

I like this point, too, from @Arauna. I am a lightweight here, and I like that she brings this out for balance.

5 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

My only concern here is to allow visitors to this website NOT read here what they would normally be accustomed to reading in apostate sites.

My only Bethel contact, and one I've let grow cold, as I've not kept in touch, once told me that the closer one gets to the 'inside,' the more challenge it can be perceiving God's direction. Friends will marvel at how God has supplied just the right understanding at just the right time, and he will say "yeah, it's only because so-and-so is too stubborn to...."

THIS is how God 'works in mysterious ways,' to borrow a phrase the churches use when their doctrines have painted them into corners they cannot get out of. Jehovah does use an organization - it is evident if only by its accomplishments and unity - he uses imperfect men who have differences and opinions, and somehow hammers out leadership from them. To suggest otherwise is to suggest our critics are right - that JWs are brain-controlled zombies. No, they are regular people, with differences even at 'the top' and yet somehow God makes it all work.

If there is one thing I would gingerly suggest we do wrong, it is the frequently repeated admonition to stay away from any 'apostate reasoning' because it is like poison. I see why they do it - because the scriptures state they should - and yet it leads to almost a superstition among some of us that mere ideas are poisonous. In fact, the ideas are not poisonous; what is poisonous is many of the people who are pushing them.

So when you get off-the-grid thinking from someone who is decidedly not poisonous, it is not necessarily a bad thing. Whether it's great to put such stuff out there publicly is for others to say, but since countless persons have served in capacities in which they gain a glimpse into the inner workings, and there is an internet upon which they can write, it is unavoidable that some will. Frankly, the best way to handle such writing if someone deems it objectionable is to ignore it and let it drown in the boundless sea of online verbiage. You (and I) by our frequent comments are ensuring that does not happen, somewhat to the chagrin of JWI himself, I suspect, who says he deliberately chose a obscure forum to unload without being in-your-face about it. He assists in his own mission by posting comments so long that 98.9% will pass over them. I do. That is, I skim - not because I am uninterested, but because I have too much on my plate. No one can do everything and I leave such matters to those who have more affinity for it than I. They will refine and shift and ultimately something will come down through theocratic channels and I will say: "yep, it must work, because of the '900 languages.'"

Is it possible to become full-of-oneself or proud from too much expounding? Of course. "Knowledge puffs up," Paul says. But that is a caution, not a direction to avoid thought on that account. Theocratic publications are also a product of thinking. There are other factors that serve to keep one humble, such as full participation in the ministry, the drubbing one takes from life experiences, and the recognition that we ought not get too big for our britches ever because we can all go Alzheimer's, cancer, or run over by a truck, at a moment's notice.

5 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

If anyone wishes to refute my comments, then do so by the grace of God, not by past understandings that have been revised to meet the needs and understanding by each generation

I like this. I have added the italics. It is the reason that John differs from Matthew, Mark and Luke - the former was written decades later and the needs of the Christian community had changed. So it is with theocratic writings.

5 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

Then, as the "librarian" once told me, POST YOUR COMMENT, CALL IT GOOD, AND MOVE ON!!!!!

Sometimes you can spirit away the old hen and see if anyone will pony up to get her back. I have found she is not in such demand as she apparently thinks she is. Incidentally, humor, IMO, flavored with just the right mix of ridicule, is a great way to confront the poisonous persons I speak of, (though one must be careful with humor, especially ridicule, because it does not translate well) if you are unlucky enough to run across them. Expressing outrage and accusations - please forgive me for this because I know where you do it, it is because you are jealous for pure worship, as we should be - only makes them gleeful at getting such a rise out of us and encourages them to do more.

Again, to quote you: "My only concern here is to allow visitors to this website NOT read here what they would normally be accustomed to reading in apostate sites."

Hopefully, they don't. I don't. (Having said that, the best way to get someone to do something is to tell them they shouldn't) The one time I deliberately did as an experiment, I was met with such nastiness that I backed out after a few days. They weren't nasty at first. They were effusive in their greetings until they perceived that I was not about to jump ship.

Back when we used to date and she was known as the 'Bombshell from Bethel', she was not known for her brains. But after being booted from Bethel, she landed this gig at the library, a post she had held for many decades.

So I just assumed she was now smart. Nobody said she was. I just assumed it

Sigh - she's still dumb as a plank. Helping her pass the time while she is in my custody awaiting WorldNews readers to pay up a ransom for her release, a course that they have been surprisingly reluctant to embark on, I have offered her reading material, as a purely humanitarian gesture. Since she is @The Librarianat the library, I offered her a choice of brainy reading - writings from learned Greeks like Socrates and Hippocrates. 

"Oh, I hate the Crate brothers! I don't know which one is worse, So or Hippo!" she complained. She said she would rather try some Homer. So I fetched her The Odyssey, only to find that she meant Homer Simpson. I then said I would get her whatever she wanted, and she is binge-watching episodes of Duck Dynasty.

And - I don't know how she did it - she is under lock at key awaiting my ransom demands to be met - and my house is one and a half miles away, but she still managed to clean out my liquor cabinet.

  On 7/31/2017 at 11:07 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

There comes a time when one must suck it up and move on - either stay or leave, but move on.

@b4ucuhear: Is that what I should have told my sister? My younger sister was sexually molested by an elder. She stayed despite that without making waves, until she started to see other things she found deeply disturbing and then she did "move on" as you say. Actually, she shouldn't have "moved on" because later on, most of the elders (the bad ones) were either removed or disfellowshipped - half of them were apostate (but that's not all they were up to). Of course nobody wanted to believe anything (even with concrete evidence) since they were regulars on the circuit assembly platform and on even on the district convention. It took about 10 years to sort itself out (should have been much quicker considering the evidence), but it did, (although it took other elders to step in and do what actually had to be done.) Still, 1 Timothy 5:24 will prove to be true if you wait, in one way or another. 

…….

TTH:  "This ‘superfine apostle’ in the 2 Corinthians 11:5 mold was a big honcho in the HVAC world and would freeze everyone out of the Kingdom Hall because he liked it cool - even locking the thermostat so nobody not under his control could touch it. One elderly sister declared she would no longer attend meetings – where was the love?

"It developed that this man planned to poison his wife so as to move in with another woman, and all the while maintain his position in the congregation. Joe Merlin sniffed him out in a heartbeat. ‘How can you guys be so naïve?’ he cried before one Body of Elders who could not believe what was right before them. But when the dust at last settled, one of them approached him: ‘You’re right, Joe - we are naïve.’ Sometimes Jehovah’s people are naïve. They are the ‘sons of the light’ whom the ‘sons of this system of things’ do end runs around."

From the chapter 'Dirty Rotten Lowlifes' in 'No Fake News But Plenty of Hogwash.'

……

@b4ucuhear I respect you for that. Knowing bad things can happen yet having the strength of faith and character to stay - as you seem - spiritually strong in the truth. Might I ask you to share with us what enables you to maintain your faith and dedication despite faith testing situations (whether you were personally in that congregation or not?)

……..

Why Remain a Witness when Bad Things Happen?

Here are things that have helped me. I’ll add some others, maybe.

First, the psalm that says if you love God’s law, there is no stumbling block. (Ps 119:165) Humans will let you down from time to time. God never does.

Second, Peter’s statement to Jesus when the latter said something outrageous. “Lord, where else shall we go?” (John 6:68) Exactly. Who else enjoys the basic spiritual truths and does the scripturally appointed work of Jehovah’s Witnesses? (Why would Jesus say what he did, knowing it could so easily be misconstrued? Can it be that he does so to separate the keepers from the bad fish?)

Third, recognition that the key is, not to try to sanitize the present, but to unsanitize the past. Meaning the congregation, Paul says that in any house there are vessels for uses both honorable and dishonorable, and one must keep away from the latter. (2 Timothy 2:20) Plenty of riff-raff back then, he is saying. The Hebrew scriptures even point to times and situations when God's people acted worse than the nations, so if they are instances today here or there, it should hardly be a shocker, even if it goes on for a few years. In OT times, it went on for decades.

Fourth, I like it that God mocks the wisdom of this world - wisdom which has given us the disaster we all must live in. From where is that wisdom dispensed but in the world’s system of higher education? Only Jehovah’s Witnesses eschew it, and despite that (or because of it) they have constructed a seamless system the envy of human governments that can’t reliably provide the most basic of services. We are the one religion of size that have not strayed from its ‘working class’ roots so as to suck up to the ‘better’ people. Acts 4:13 says the elites were astonished how the leaders of Christianity were ordinary and unlearned by their standards. That remains so today. Current GB members start out, not from a lofty perch above others, like in any other organization today, but from humble full-time service below that of most persons they later lead.

Fifth, a recognition that the crowd is always wrong. While some fear the prevalence of apostates will harm the true faith, I think, to the discerning one, it strengthens it. Hostility over Jehovah’s Witnesses is way out of proportion to any sins they have committed, and are often entirely bogus. Ann mentioned Muslims. They have tendency to produce murderous extremists and they have a sharia law that, taken seriously, does far more than shun transgressors, and savages Western notions of woman’s rights. Write an article about Muslims and you will receive many hostile comments. Write one about Jehovah's Witnesses and you will drown in hostile comments, though their numbers are far fewer and their transgressions far less serious. Don’t follow the crowd for evil ends, Exodus 23:2 says, or, as everyone’s mother said: if everyone was jumping off a cliff, would you jump too? If the crowd says the religion stinks, it must be good.

That’s for starters. 

She eats like a horse - that's all I have to say.

"I can't help it; I get hungry when I'm nervous. Pass me two more of those donuts, please," @The Librariansays.

So far I've raised only $2 from admin, who declared it an acceptable risk, since she owes him 20.

"This is Brian Brexit reporting for tomsheepandgoats.com. I am at the world headquarters of TheWorldNewsMedia company to report on the missing report of a strange person - uh, I mean, the strange report of a missing person (sorry). I am speaking with the company president, Allen Admin. Mr. @admin, what do you make of this report?"

Not much, to tell the truth. She's probably just off on another binge. Happens all the time.

But we have credible information that she has been kidnapped by TrueTom and is being held for ransom.

If that idiot thinks anyone's going to pay to get her back, he should change his name to DumbTom. Still, her disappearance is a little hard to fathom.

You mean that she didn't have a enemy in the world?

No, not that -  everyone was her enemy. I mean that, if he kidnapped the woman, he's going to have to put up with her. Even if his ransom demands bring in tens of thousands, it's probably not worth it.

Does this create a hardship for WorldNews replacing someone with her technical expertise on short notice?

Your joking! Look, we were trying to roll out simple thread technology and she managed to get everyone confused. Alright, so TrueTom is not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but there were others. Even @Annawas having a hard time, and @b4ucuhear.

Who will replace her?

The janitor always does when she is tanked. I imagine he will do so now. You know, it's strange...

You mean, about @The Librarian?

No, I mean about the janitor. He's a janitor, right? And yet he owns 15 suits. I don't care anything about the corporate agenda of that sect he's with - it's not my business - but it is still strange.

Thank you, Mr. Admin. For tomsheepandgoats.com, this is Brian Brexit reporting.

To tell you the truth, he or she or it is so flabby it is hard to tell.

Desperate times call for desperate measures. I have kidnapped @The Librarian If you ever want to see her again, (and I know I am taking a risk in saying this) you are going to have to dig down into your pockets and pony up. I figure if each reader pays $1000, that should be enough to secure her release.

There will be no special rates for those in full time service. I'm playing hardball.

Updates periodically.

Okay, @The Librarian, I have worked through today's backlog.

FROM NOW ON I WILL CONFORM - MORE OR LESS - TO YOUR NEW IMPROVED SYSTEM. You can even blow this comment to smithereens if you want.

DO YOU HEAR THAT, BIG BOY? @James Thomas Rook Jr.LET'S TAKE IT OUT ON THE STREET! YOU AND ME, BIG FELLA! NO MORE PUBLIC FIGHTING! Let the poor librarian repair her busted furniture, tape up spines on the damaged books, put the 33 rpm records away that you have hurled at me as frisbees, and start afresh!

On 7/24/2017 at 8:35 AM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The Brothers (and Sisters) who saved up or borrowed money to build their Kingdom Halls locally, and used their sweat and time to build it .. often with the help of Friends ... do they specifically have the right to sell it as they see fit, and use the money as they see fit?

Yes, or no?

Why would they want to? Is it not a house of worship?

Would you transform yours into a "JTR'S INSPIRATIONAL SAYINGS" storefront?

8 hours ago, Arauna said:

FAKE NEWS -  I did not even read the other comments because something is seriously wrong with this item!!

Here are a few things to think about:

There is no name given to this woman. There are no important news sources from reputable news companies. (They would be onto this like a flash)

Ha Ha. Pity the poor @The Librarian! Just when she is seething in rage that nobody regards her system and comments have veered off to Pluto, one unpredictably leads right back to the threads theme!

10 hours ago, The Librarian said:

It should show right below like this.... at least it does on Google Chrome and Safari:

What OS are you using... just curious.

'Ozzie's Operating System' and 'Bob's Browser Service' Doesn't that work here?

I'm going to behave. Honestly I am. After I get though a few comments I see have stacked up. It's a good explanation your provided. Hopefully easy to use.

Will @The Librariansuceed in her mission to impose ORDER and make her library NEAT AND TIDY? Good l**k on that, especially when people drop bombshells with leads going 10 different directions. Nonetheless, I vow (strike that: promise....strike that: intend....strike that: hope....strike that: will comply if it is easy) to comply with her wishes (the old hen) so that, while I may be a rabblerouser, there will be 20 others worse than I for her to harass.

3 minutes ago, The Librarian said:

hence the threaded replies section below.

perhaps this displays differently on different screens. I see no option other than to comment as I have been.

12 minutes ago, The Librarian said:

please see my last comment in this post....

Your argument / comment has very little to do with the title of this post.

hence... please post it below in the threaded chat area and I will delete the one up here.

Thank you in advance.

I have no idea how this works. I did see some announcement about it previously, didn't take the time to grasp it and told myself I would learn it by trial and error if need be.

I figured it was just the librarian trying to get me to do her work for her and her silly dewey decimal catalog. 

I will do it (or try, probably) if I understand it........What? Do you mean just starting a new topic? 

1 hour ago, J.R. Ewing said:

. In my culture, regardless of the judicial committee making a decision to keep the Christian Congregation clean,

He is from far away. "In my culture," he says. Cut him slack on that account, or learn from him.

If he is from Africa, for example, @Arauna once observed that children and young women are raped there routinely with no one at all to stand up for them. Outrage over sexual molestation appears to be a privilege of the monied lands. Imagine how strange a brother from that different place and culture might find this discussion.

Of course, this is just guesswork based upon a phrase and a unique way of reasoning. I may be all wet. Perhaps he is from North Dakota.

2 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

Of course nobody wanted to believe anything (even with concrete evidence) since they were regulars on the circuit assembly platform and on even on the district convention.

"This ‘superfine apostle’ in the 2 Corinthians 11:5 mold was a big honcho in the HVAC world and would freeze everyone out of the Kingdom Hall because he liked it cool - even locking the thermostat so nobody not under his control could touch it. One elderly sister declared she would no longer attend meetings – where was the love?

"It developed that this man planned to poison his wife so as to move in with another woman, and all the while maintain his position in the congregation. Joe Merlin sniffed him out in a heartbeat. ‘How can you guys be so naïve?’ he cried before one Body of Elders who could not believe what was right before them. But when the dust at last settled, one of them approached him: ‘You’re right, Joe - we are naïve.’ Sometimes Jehovah’s people are naïve. They are the ‘sons of the light’ whom the ‘sons of this system of things’ do end runs around."

From the chapter 'Dirty Rotten Lowlifes' in 'No Fake News But Plenty of Hogwash.'

19 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

the JW-Archive .org has shifted platforms and locations several times ... and once AGAIN you have demonstrated your predilection for irrelevancy when challenged to "walk the walk".

Yes. Every time @The Librarian has fallen off the wagon. How can you be so insensitive? I was trying to spare her the humiliation, not reminding everyone. She was once a woman of substance, after all. (She still is, but it is from all those donuts - not the same thing)

7 minutes ago, b4ucuhear said:

However, by extension, we also apply it to the great crowd. It would be dangerous however to set ourselves up as being in the judgment seat of God and decide for ourselves that people whom we may disagree with (or are in fact wrong) can't make changes before they die or merit everlasting destruction. It would be pretty dangerous to throw that around lightly in this kind of venue.

Yes. It is a good reproof. I have endeavored to mitigate that remark elsewhere, saying we never know for sure who that verse fits. But it a point worth repeating.

2 hours ago, bruceq said:

Why are you here? Haters will hate

While I endeavor to verbally smash certain ones in the teeth with a baseball bat, I have, with some difficulty and with occasional regressions, learned to fight ideas and not people. The people are merely actors playing a role written out for them long ago. Sometimes in Hollywood, actors who have long played the villain sign on to play a role as a good guy. Hebrews 6:4 puts the damper on that somewhat in a spiritual sense, but you never know for sure who is described therein.

Yes, you are jealous for Jehovah and will tolerate no rivalry, as scripture says you should be. Believe me, I understand. To be sure, I was helped in my 'progress' by @adminslapping an A on me (abuse) and removing an entire thread before you came along.  It is still a challenge to separate the sinner from the sin when the former so obviously relishes the latter role. But I am trying. Even with @BigMouth I am making significant progress.

Though I am completely (well, partly) reformed, @admin has yet to imitate our Lord and Saviour, and extend forgiveness and obliterate my past record of evil. But the night is yet young. The fat lady as not yet sung. (No offense to @The Librarian) If I can restore my pristine reputation with The World Media forum, I will able to die with a smile on my face.

3 hours ago, Ann O'Maly said:

Nah.

Besides, it is the reason for hatred that must be factored in. If Muslims have found a mixed reception in the West, it is because, in some inexplicable way, the religion produces extremists far more numerous and vicious than anything emerging from the 'Christian' world. Plus, if features sharia law that undoes decades of progress in woman's issues. And at its harshest,  it does considerably more than shun those who run afoul of it.

Ordinary run-of-the-mill Muslims suffer for these perceptions, which, as always, are exaggerated, yet all you have to do is read the paper to see that they are not manufactured out of thin air, as are many of the claims about Jehovah's Witnesses. With them, essentially, it is that they preach a message that few want to hear, and can be overbearing.

I like the blog test. Write something praiseworthy of Muslims and you get a smattering of protests. Write something praiseworthy about Jehovah's Witnesses and you get so many howls that your ISP carrier threatens to increase your rates.

The Canadian website Bruce mentions has had to post a disclaimer: "We are not Jehovah's Witnesses. We are just trying to  report on them. Leave us in peace. We don't want to hear why you  think they are a cult!" They have not had to do that with Muslims although 1000 times more numerous.

9 hours ago, SuziQ1513 said:

 I donate to the KH and if they send money to the HQ, that's their business.

As food for thought, Suzie, if you feel guilty, we should not assume that they do not - brothers holding positions of authority. This is true even though they are not accused of anything personally, unlike the clergy of some religions, but of merely 'bungling' the reporting, not conforming to the world's rapid about-face on this issue - years ago, authorities would send a molester right back into the home, assuming rehabilitation was possible and was preferable to breaking up a family.

The GB is between a rock and a hard place. Where elders investigate, especially in cases of abuse 20 or more years ago, they may find, for whatever reason, that the family head does not want to go public. Perhaps all involved were family or extended family, and the head does not feel that calling in the cops is the way to go. Where it was not legally required, it was not for the elders to steamroller him and go over his head. That's why (2017) our brother pleaded with authorities to make it a requirement everywhere. That way, no one is tarred and feathered for not going 'beyond the law.'

Even if the family head has been conditioned not to report - an allegation provable only by anecdote - the type of evidence that is discarded everywhere else - a constant refrain of apostates, that does not alter the fact that family wishes cannot be disregarded by a theocratic organization, unless there is a specific law to the contrary.

Leadership by apology is in vogue today. How much of it our people should do is arguable - I don't go there. It's not my place.  Suffice it to say, however, that among determined enemies, a apology only stimulates demands for more apologies, and the more apologies never lead to forgiveness, but only demands for resignation. Thus, it plays into the enemy's greater goal of halting the proclamation of the kingdom message. This is not to say that everyone concerned over child sexual abuse has that goal. But many do, and they have used the situation to advance their own ends.

27 minutes ago, bruceq said:

Yes about the web browser thingy I did this test at the Public Library {therefore hopefully a neutral ground browsers not tainted by apostates or Witnesses browsing} and unless most of the people using that particular computer were JW well...you get the idea.

Make them say "Shiboleth" to be sure.

24 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

Perhaps a new thread is in order since these topic has been highjacked to debate suicide instead of questionable news from an ex-bethelite

Your move, Allen.

8 hours ago, SuziQ1513 said:

The abuser was so clever, I had no idea for which I have felt deeply guilty.  We would sit at family meals (the 4 of us) and the abuser could act like nothing was wrong.  My son was weighed down with threats and so remained silent.

Thank you for this.

A person can only act upon what they know and have been trained to identify. If only the detailed instruction given at the 'Don't Give Up' Regional Convention had been given many years ago, for the obvious first line of defense in this regard is for parents to recognize potential dangers. But nobody did back then, not I, not you, not anyone who had not been specifically educated - and that was almost nobody. Feeling guilt is inherent with any parent contemplating difficulties their children have faced - who but the most insensitive has not been there? - but hopefully it fades knowing one did all one could have done with what knowledge one had at the time, allowing for human imperfection. Ideally, the children themselves come to know this in time.

8 hours ago, SuziQ1513 said:

My son has left the Truth since he claims he is now Gay.

If there is one thing modern times have taught us, it is how amazingly fluid sexuality is. I don't think anything is permanent unless one determinedly reinforces it. In the entertainment media are plenty of people like Ani DiFranco. She identified as lesbian early on and gained countless fans on that account. She betrayed and outraged them all by 'growing out of it' and getting married, now calling herself 'bi-sexual.' So we could all be, most likely, depending upon many factors, chief among them the environment we are immersed in.