TrueTomHarley

21 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Sloppy sloppy. Where do you get your quotations? The above quote is a lie. Here's the actual quote:

HA! The crazy malignant woman. She surely knows better.

2 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

The context being "If God can send an angel to wipe out thousands of soldiers overnight, therefore............. 

……he can certainly get rid of a dodo.

He’s already conceded your point.

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

I think that TTH says he is currently reading the book "Children"

Are you kidding me? Who can tolerate that stuff?

Everyone but me, apparently. It’s my bad, I know. But whether it was right or wrong, it’s 100 years old and we’ve long since moved on, either building upon or discarding it. 

I’m glad there are people who take interest in the old stuff, and I won’t say I don’t have any. Yes, I did recently purchase it at the eclectic book store. Yes, I did issue an off-the-cuff remark to Srecko that’d I’d finish it and get back to him. But there are just too many things of higher priority to me.

It’s a little like when Minh offered me a treat he really really enjoyed and it was horrible. “I do like it,” I told the hopeful fellow, “it’s just like I like other things more.”

I may get to it someday, about the same time I read Rud’s book.

53 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

I've captured a screen,

Nothing like keeping records. If this fellow would come on board with a few current understandings, we’d make him secretary of the entire organization.

(Uh oh. I accidentally downvoted, then changed it to an upvote. He’s probably got the original on screenshot and will beat me over the head with it someday.)

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

I welcome it when someone points out that someone is toying with us - which is a deceit and unchristian.

Uh oh.

”Hey, you guys keep it down back there!” TTH hollered to A Nice Guy, Dr. Adhominem, Bill Ding, Tom Foolery, Dr. Max “Ace” Inhibitor, and a host of others.

54 minutes ago, WalterPrescott said:

When an author such as yourself accepts apostasy here and then claims, he is fighting a good fight in his books, those books lose value. That's out of your own making, not mind.

“Now TTH had been saying: “It was for nothing that I kissed up to this cantankerous old fellow in the wilderness. Not a single thing bad thing about him did I say [lately], and yet he repays me evil for good.  May God do the same and more to the enemies of TTH if I allow a single sentence of his to survive until the morning!”

54 minutes ago, WalterPrescott said:

When you get a chance, forward BWShults book to JWI

He already told you he has a copy.

54 minutes ago, WalterPrescott said:

I asked SWShults son for a copy but was denied.

I didn’t know he had a son.

I can honestly say I have never read an apostate book. A few online articles here and there, but mostly not even that. So many others have that I find it easy to glean whatever I need from them. You are far more versed in their bile than I

11 minutes ago, WalterPrescott said:

You seem to have the same problem JWI when it comes to understanding, a point made. I was not referring to your books, but rather a copy of Shults book that might b in your possession. 

Look, I use the pages as toilet paper, okay? Please tell me what you have against my books.

You were making sour remarks long before you ever knew I had a BWShultz book. And I’ve only read a few scattered portions. I find it a bit tedious. It’s a expose of religious trivia of 100+ years ago and I find myself saying, “Why would anyone care about that?”

1 hour ago, WalterPrescott said:

You can also ask your friend TTH to send you a PDF.

For the life of me I do not understand why you are so harsh with regard to my books. They are 100% loyal, entirely devoted to defending the faith from attacks.  

I am not that bad Shultz who teams up with a non-believer. I am not that bad JWI who signals nonalignment with several current beliefs. 

I honestly don’t understand it. You have at least Tom Irregardless and Me. I know you do because I gave you a copy and at the time you were very gracious over it.

What changed?

14 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

The WHO may not be fooling around this time! But that's under another topic. (FWIW, my favorite of theirs was Behind Blue Eyes.)

The Who just may be my favorite group of all time. Lots of memorable tunes. Like

I went back to my mother
I said, "I'm crazy, Ma, help me"
She said, "I know how it feels, son
'Cause it runs in the family"

Just taking bout my g-g-generation. I can see for miles and miles an miles.

15 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Ya know guys, trying to read all this rubbish is more painful than the 4 hours I've just spent in A&E

I can think of a solution to that little problem.

6 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The release of the Proclaimers book seemed to signal a shift from neglect of the past to cherishing ‘our spiritual heritage.’

It may have served to counter another trend as well. Just that time in greater world began to speak of ‘careers’ whereas in the past it had always been about ‘jobs.’ 

‘If they’re going to put on airs, then so will we’ I can imagine the subliminal thought process of those who went on reframe a stint at Bethel, as a job, but only as one aspect of a ‘career’ in Jehovah’s full time service.

49 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

but that its purpose, when put into operation, will be to make all nations of earth one great family, working together for the common benefit in all the avenues of national life. Truly this is idealistic, and approximates in a small way that which God has foretold that he will bring about after this great time of trouble.

But then along came the Who and they all got fooled again.

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

it would be rare for the family of a Bethelite to make a case against the entire Watchtower Society for a wrongful death. I can't imagine my own parents even thinking of such a thing if anything had happened to me there.

Actually I contacted your parents long ago. “As soon as that kid is out of our hair…..” they told me.

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Penton ….somehow turned into a sloppy historian. 

His parents told me the same thing. 

3 hours ago, WalterPrescott said:

“Many died of old age at Bethel but some died younger.

as though that doesn’t happen anywhere else.

3 hours ago, WalterPrescott said:

Richard was never quite the same after his wife died.

as though everyone else celebrates when their wife dies.

3 hours ago, WalterPrescott said:

Aside from [Shultz’s] version to be repetitive, he’s partner is NOT a Witness, 

Whatever her influence once was, she’s been dead for several years. Her death preceded the release of Volume II. As to parameters, I’m not versed enough in the history to know what they might be.

In the 70s some touring Bethel brother presented a few clips from the PhotoDrama of creation at the Blue Cross Arena [then the Rochester War Memorial]. I was struck by how it appeared to be his own project and that otherwise Bethel would have let the film disintegrate through neglect. Not that anyone was ashamed of it. It was just that they were forward looking and didn’t do much to preserve history. The tone of his remarks was that he had to sort through the basement, or the attic, to assemble what he had, which was not in good shape and soon would have vanished.

The release of the Proclaimers book seemed to signal a shift from neglect of the past to cherishing ‘our spiritual heritage.’ Nothing wrong with that, in my view. It was as though, after assembling the yearbook material for 74 and 75 (Germany and US) it occurred to the brothers, seemingly for the first time, that if they didn’t start preserving records of the past it would soon be lost forever.

Maybe that’s why Rud can find an audience for his expensive book (I should take lessons from him in commanding a price); there’s a relative dearth of official historical material. It’s not my field of interest, but I recognize everyone wants to tell their own story and relate their own ‘expertise.’ As for me, I say, ‘If you have to go back 100 years to dig up dirt, there can’t be too much dirt to dig.’ Alas, they have modern-day allies, who endeavor to dig it up —some would say ‘concoct’—in the present too.

10 hours ago, Thinking said:

I really hope those scholars are humble enough to let a little pooping seed picker in amongst them…. 

They have their own standards. It’s not so much humility as it is meeting their standards. Their club consists of published authors and/or scholars with advanced degrees.. I can spin a good story, self publish with typos, shift the gem to see things from a different perspective, but am not really in their league. There has been someone saying he will try to gain me admittance but I’m not holding my breath. If I did gain admittance I am not sure I would participate much. I’m not sure my advocate has the stature to recommend a new member anyway. He talks a good game.

I’m not overly impressed with ‘scholars’ anyway. It’s not the ‘greater gift.’ It’s a fine addition if you have the greater gift down pat but comes across as a little pretentious if you don’t. The twelve were not scholars. Paul (who was) said a Christian should be “a workman [not a professional] with nothing to be ashamed of,” thus choosing his words to favor the non-scholars. God arranged that his son should be born in the Bethehem Manger, not the Jerusalem Hyatt. He could have chosen the latter; he knows a lot of people. But he didn’t.

I don’t think these humble roots are embarrassing shortcomings to pull oneself up by one’s bootstraps from, which is how they are usually presented. I think they are permanent indications of the ones who God chooses. As soon as people fancy themselves ‘scholars’ they are inclined to get too big for their pants. They start to think, as did Rud, “The Branch wouldn’t dare mess with me!” In time they bluster around like Alan F, calling anyone who disagrees a ignoramus.

Have the greater gifts down pat and scholarship is fine. You need scholarship. I get that. But the guys that are topheavy with it wear me out.

10 hours ago, Thinking said:

I like Shultz tho I have not read of him much lately….I still have a book of his here to read….saving it for when and if the internet goes down…

I have one of his too. So far as I am aware he does have the greater gifts down pat. He writes Bethel in connection to his research and to a reasonable degree they cooperate. As he is reaching advanced years with poor health he donates rare literature to them. I’m glad he does the work he does. Somebody has to. I’m glad it is him. But I would never have the patience to put something like that together.

They sent a copy of their work to Bethel, to no comment, and his non-Witness niece speculated that Bethel “is incurious as to its own beginnings.” By and large I think that is true. They don’t look behind too much. They look forward.

39 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Not that Walter will care about my opinion, but I believe his input has always been valuable when it comes to the subject of Bible Student history. If you'll unblock him, at least for this topic, you'll see a bit of antagonism here and there toward Schulz, Persson, Penton, etc. But I expect you will also see a lot of good points made, assuming you have more than a "xero" interest in the topic, of course.

He doesn’t like Shultz? Who could not like Shultz?

Shultz recently told me that in his ‘scholar group’ he pointedly told off Rolf and it was apparently heated enough that he thought one or the other of them might be kicked off, and that he didn’t care if it was him, even though Rolf was a one-person minority.

He had previously tweeted of a certain “moron” in his group. I observed that every group was a moron and inquired if it was in connection to a certain dastardly deed where Rolf had played his hand. It was.

I have floated the possibility with another of that group that it might be a fine thing to add me to it, even allowing that I am so not much a scholar as a seedpicker—peck a seed here and poop it out there, just like they said of Paul.

So far no one has taken the bait.

4 minutes ago, Thinking said:

Tom who counseld you?..I’m not understanding..

That’s just it. I didn’t keep track of who. Nobody I knew personally. He expressed nothing toward me but good will. It was some form of media communication, the exact form I forget.

19 hours ago, WalterPrescott said:

A site you should be familiar with since you are also mentioned there.

I don’t see any mention of him there. 

Yeah, I suppose you could get worked up over certain things. But to the point of missing the big picture? When he was baptized “into Christ” did he thereafter become brother to the 95% of Christians who equate Jesus with God?

This statement is telling to me: “I myself was sure that the Branch would not dare to do anything.” Isn’t there such a thing as overestimating your own importance? 

Recently Elon Musk proposed to buy Twitter. “I’m sure the left wouldn’t dare do anything,” he said.

17 hours ago, WalterPrescott said:

{Thinnking]: There are several things wrong with this Bible Student account on Wikipedia with P.S.L. Johnson. This is why people should read the fine print, especially when it states, citation needed. However, it’s part of Bible Student's historical record.

I wish I had kept track of who is was, but I didn’t.

Someone responded, by email, post, comment, I forget which, to say he used to edit Wikipedia for Witness-related things and he had to be on it all the time. He would say things from the Witness point of view and 24 hours later the apostates [his word] would have changed it back to something derogatory. P.S.L. Johnson would probably be too obscure for anyone to bother with.

What I can’t remember is if this was on his own initiative or if it was some freelance theocratic assignment, or a bit of both.

He liked some of the stuff I was doing, but cautioned my with a line from Nietzsche [so he was just your typical brother.   ]: “Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.” I have let that moderate my behavior, even if not so far as calling a truce. 

If only all of Walter’s writings were of this caliber. I would unblock him in an instant.

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

He didn't know about the book, but won't get it or read it because he thinks of Rud Persson as an apostate. But he's happy to answer any questions. 

“No, no, Rude Person is actually a very nice guy!”

Sorry, it is just such low-hanging fruit. Why should this character be so named? It’s almost like Nabal—the ‘senseless one.’

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

When Russell died, in 1916, it looks like Rutherford was genuinely concerned to do the right thing, scripturally. . . . it was new to me that Rutherford did not come across like the bombastic, brash person we sometimes think of from later years.  . . . When they felt "lost" they turned the Bible, and Rutherford turned humbly to someone he thought of as smarter than himself on scriptural matters. 

All of this is a bit at odds with the “shrewd and scheming legal mind” he is said to have had in the book’s promo.

3 minutes ago, Anna said:

Please believe me when I say NO ONE can be bothered to delete content or ban anyone. You are not that important, this site is not that important, no one here is that important.

Yeah, well what about that time you banned ME for saying that your dress was tacky?

10 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Why do I want to attach a laughing emoji to this but somehow feel I shouldn’t?

Somehow it reminds me of that Bible talk of Ehud, who delivered to fat Eglon a ‘pointed message,’ causing you-know-what to spill all over.

3 hours ago, Thinking said:

This Who treaty and its sighing has gotten a lot of air and TV time over here…our two major parties have said they will sign But there is a lot of push back.

Barely a word about it here in the States unless you go to a place like GETTR, in which case there is plenty.

I didn’t want to start a new social media account, but certain views are reliably suppressed or ‘fact-checked’ away on the main platforms that I felt driven to it. I follow only two people in my GETTR account, Malone and Dowd, and I have the same profile there as I do here and everywhere else. I’ve only commented once, nothing substantial, and don’t plan (as of yet) to make a habit of it. Last I checked I already had 20 followers.