TrueTomHarley

14 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Makes sense. I was able to edit it out.

All is well. It caused me to scratch my head in non-recognition - a name, apparently a villainous one, and I never did get around to figuring out who it was. 

For years I was steamed that Bethel so universally spoke ill of R rated movies, when PG-13 movies might easily be more objectionable. They outmaneuvered me by saying 'alrght, PG-13 movies are also no good.'

I had a friend high up in a theater chain and during 1971-1972, saw virtually everything coming down the pipe for free. Recently, via Netflix, I revisited 'Colossus: the Forbin Project,' a sci-fi offering in which computers took over the world (I hate when they do that). "I enjoyed this drivel?" I asked myself.

I continued watching many a movie after baptism (Network was a favorite, despite abysmally foul language), but gradually tapered off from lack of interest, and now become impatient with putting in the required two hours, unless a film is truly excellent. 

Dunkirk sounds like a film I might like. I've not seen Private Ryan or Schindler, not because of any particular principle, but because I never got around to it. The most recent current movie I've seen was Captain Fantastic, which played into some themes I like.

30 minutes ago, Eoin Joyce said:

903. And I never obsess over figures!

Gasp! I don't think it will be @PeterR; he does not seemed geared that way - but I fear one of his chums will label me a false prophet!

1 hour ago, PeterR said:

Stop reporting hours and stop accepting titles for your works, and then see what you are motivated to do. That would arguably be a truer test of spiritual health.

If you don't want to report hours, don't report hours. No one is saying you must. Sit there in your congregation - are you in a congregation? - as a gurgling fountain of pious love, and let godly life go on about you as usual. When it comes time for privileges like ministerial servant, elders will say: "we can't consider PeterR. He thinks he is more holy than anyone else and is too pure to follow a simple direction." But you don't 'accept titles' anyway, so it is a win-win.

2 hours ago, PeterR said:

And others who stop reporting and well ... just stop.

You would start a revolution over this? For what reason? Is it not merely to undermine the work the Governing Body takes the lead in? 

At the end of the month I report my time, because that is what I have been asked to do. And yes, some of the points you have raised do go through my  mind. It's not the points you've made that are juvenile - It is your shrill insistence upon them that is juvenile, and your impugning the motives of those who feel otherwise.

It's just the government trying to defuse a firestorm of international condemnation. If there was anything to it, it would have been part of the court case.

I will concede that counting time has some drawbacks. It leads to notions of being 'on duty' or 'off duty,' even though we are encouraged not to be that way. I suspect evening witnessing is eschewed by pioneers in favor of less-productive daytime witnessing largely because they can get more time with the latter. That's not the only reason, but it is probably among them.

Videos are changing the nature of reporting, as are the contact cards, which I use as a businessman uses his cards. "Everyone has a cause," I will say, "and this is mine," followed by perhaps an observation of the 900 languages and how, for that reason alone, they ought to check it out. Or something else. There is no way I am going to keep track of cards, and at the end of the month, I give a ballpark figure.

increasingly, I do something like that for hours, too. I enjoy evening witnessing. Those hours, IMO, are 'better,' though fewer. What with using cards and even the videos on devices spontaneously, how can one keep track of that time-wise? I don't attempt it. Ballpark suffices. And don't get me going on internet writing. I count none of it, until Bethel is more enthused about it. It's just a personal choice. Some probably do, though I think going online solely to witness is extremely ineffective. Ones who do it, from what I have seen, end up merely talking to each other or arguing with opposers.

Perhaps if we were going to track anything, it might be people talked to, not hours.  Or choose one or the other depending upon the nature of one's territory.  But this could also lead to manufactured situations. 

No matter. The main idea is that the preaching work ought to get done, and nobody is doing that other than Jehovah's Witnesses. Few know the Bible well enough to do it if they wanted to. I'll stick with the people spearheading this work and I'll leave it to them how or to what extent they want to keep track of it.

On 7/20/2017 at 9:00 PM, PeterR said:

Who obsesses more - the one who finally comprehends Jesus' words not to "let your left hand know what your right hand is doing" (Matt 6:3), or the one who chases people for their reports, tabulates them, send them off to HQ, reviews them with the body, and brings them out whenever a decision has to be made?

Oh come now. Reports sent to HQ are cumulative, not individual. There they are used to get a thumbnail on the preaching activity in that area.

'Tabulating them' is merely adding up the publisher reports by the congregation secretary so he can send the final sum to HQ - where you would have us believe, they must shake with rage because they want to know each individual's report so they can JUDGE them, but are thwarted in their sinister scheme by only having a single number.

4 hours ago, Anna said:

As a side issue, she also said that she had learned more from a few months studying the Bible with JWs than she had learned in 2 years in the church (she had previously been an atheist and "converted" because of a requirement to be able to adopt a child). 

I once worked with an agnostic woman who knew God's name was Jehovah because she had seen 'Indiana Jones.' She knew God's original purpose was for the earth to be a paradise because she had seen 'Dogma.'

Though she had never been in a church, she knew from two movies, more about God than do 90% of churchgoers! 

1 hour ago, PeterR said:

Sure. If you think true Christianity is measured like blood pressure then I have no wish to argue with you. I believe JW's are fairly unique among Christian denominations in this regard.

They're also fairly unique among Christian denominations about actually doing anything about the Word of God,  insomuch as it involves spreading a united message. Denominations that do not completely neglect that work fritter away most of their energies taking sides over social and national issues, and in the end convey only that 'Jesus is God.' When I see the group that has participated in the fulfillment of Matthew 24:14 to even a fraction of JWs, perhaps I will bolt to them. 

'Advertising the kingdom' is the overwhelming theme today. All else is fine print, arguable this way or that, but fine print nonetheless.

5 hours ago, PeterR said:

It's the idea of measuring someone's spiritual worth by numbers on a record card that creates a whole different paradigm to first century Christianity.

People keep track of many numbers - blood pressure, age, speed at which they are driving, weight, exact bank balance. It's not wrong to do it and it doesn't interfere with one's appreciation for 'the real thing.' There will always be some anal people who obsess over any number, but that is them, not the number. 

It's a quick take on one's participation in the work Jesus said people should do. It makes possible an overall glimpse of the regional preaching activity enabling planning and allocation of resources.

Nobody drops people like the paid church preachers, where the only metric they track is donations - the one metric that no one ever knows about in the Christian congregation. Our elders are unpaid volunteers who often have much on their plates - working, and raising families. They do the best they can, feel bad when they fall short, and are continually trained to do better. They don't have to serve at all. 

It's not that your point is invalid, but to obsess over it too much is to show yourself as anal as the ones you gripe about.

Whenever Jesus spoke of 'hell,' he used one of two Greek words. Go find the meaning of those words and you've found the meaning of hell.

6 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

They made the 2013 Version agree with the "brazen conduct" reference  in the Elder's handbook, so when you looked the stuff up, it would be supported by "scripture".

They needed a "catch-all" to be able to redefine legitimate  disagreement as apostasy and rebellion

Possibly that move made it hot for you, and you had to step adroitly.

Sigh...it also did away with soreheads saying Jehovah's way was 'not adjusted right' for simply saying it was 'wrong.' And no longer are 'faces' sharpened. But you can't just cater to the erudite. You must mainly reach the lowly ones who will actually do something about the Word. 

They straightened out the mess of the verb tenses. And they found a way to insert God's name a few more times. What's not to like about that?

3 minutes ago, tromboneck said:

Good Grief, Charlie Brown! How much time and research was spent on this scholarly discussion?

Lengthy it is. Nonetheless, "if I want to do what is good with my own things, what is that to you?"

It's not a reproof. Please don't take it that way. i just like that line.

Dr. Mike 'Ace' Inhibitor strode into the hospital to see his patient, who looked grim. "Nurse, get me this man's metrics." he said. 

His nurse, Hep See, was shocked. "Doctor, this is a person, not a collection of 'metrics!' she rebuked the man.

"All I meant was..." the doctor began.... "It's very clear what you meant!" she shot back. "You need more love!"

"Oh for crying out loud!" Dr. Inhibitor cried in disgust. "Give me a hack saw. We're going in blind."

How many locusts can one pack in a courtroom after our people have gone home for the day?

1 hour ago, PeterR said:

And those 10hrs can be standing by a cart smiling, but they can't be visiting the sick, helping the elderly, etc.

Oh? And those passing by a cart are all skipping and laughing over the sheer joy of life and banishment of cares?

In fact, doing good is much like exercising a muscle, or working out your brain. It triggers a bottomless capacity to do more. It is not the win-lose situation you seem to be stuck on. It is a win-win.

The '"ten hours" (your emphasis - not mine) is not a lot, and it represents helping people, as it is a measure of Jesus command to preach the good news. Generally speaking, people who do it will not be too busy to also visit the sick and the elderly. And people too self-absorbed to do it will not instead visit the sick and the elderly.

9 hours ago, PeterR said:

The elder body I served with also seemed to need a check list.

Did they or didn't they?

9 hours ago, PeterR said:

Not just of people mind you, but a check list of how those people ranked spiritually based on metrics like meeting attendance, hours in FS, etc. Then the people on the check list would be dealt with according to their spiritual ranking.

Would you be upset if a doctor considered a person's 'metrics' before 'dealing with him?'

8 hours ago, JW Insider said:

But sometimes when I get bored and just want to see if JTR is healthy, I think about posting something that praises either Jimmy Carter or Barack Obama. 

That Elizabeth Warren is one fine woman, isn't she? Wise. Balanced.

Isaac Asimov called hell "the drooling dream of a sadist" and observed that punishment ought fit the crime. Do bad & get five years. Do worse, and get ten years. But the most evil judge would not torture a person forever, regardless of the crime.

3 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

Sorry James. I don't follow your reasoning this time. 

If you try, you may turn out like me.

"Oh Mother, tell your children not to doooo what I have done....And he's been the ruin of many a poor boy, and God, I know I'm one."

It's too late for me. It may not be for you.

'And the loose cannons and the nutcases said to him: "by what authority do you do these things? Or who gave you this authority to do these things?" Jesus said to them: "I will ask you one question. Answer me, and I will tell you by what authority I do these things."

At that, they said to him:

21 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

 

Are you EVER able to discuss any real ISSUE whatsoever ... without trying to divert attention to someone to blame?

How about this ...

You tell me WHY? .... and I will tell you WHO?

Since you have no reading comprehension skills  for what I have already said, in which already answered your question ... that might be best.

...... at least,  you are 100% consistent!

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

By shrewd selling of weapons and assistance his influence is increasing in the world  (especially the middle east). The Russians love him for it.

America is bombing more countries than is he.

Look, he's not my pal, but we are wrong if we demonize anyone personally - it's just buying into Western media. Who is there knowing whether with him it will one day be: "The man who formerly persecuted us is not declaring the good news about the faith that he formerly devastated."

No, I don't think it likely, either. But neither was it with Paul. Why poison the well?

And you feel the same way, most likely. It's just that with such a blatant injustice, it is hard not to look for a human villain. That is easy to understand.

It's good that you are here, putting in the loyal comments that you do.

20 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

TTH:

Are you EVER able to discuss any real ISSUE whatsoever ... without trying to divert attention to someone to blame?

Is your beef this time with God or with the organization that does its best to apply what he has inspired to be written?

8 hours ago, The Librarian said:

Did Jehovah respond with an Earthquake?

It's a very large country. I'd be more persuaded if the courthouse curtains ripped in two.