TrueTomHarley
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Posts posted by TrueTomHarley
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12 hours ago, Dmitar said:
with how intelligent we must be, while you praise and acknowledge how @Arauna, @Space Merchant, and @JW Insider are so intelligent.
It is like that scene from The Fugitive, when the sinister doctor tells Sam Gerard and crew that they’ll never catch Richard Kimble because “he is too smart.”
“Well…we’re smart, too,” one of them replies and he gets a chorus of agreement from his fellows, all asserting how smart they are.
So be instructed by this Dimitar. We also are all very smart. Very very smart. So smart that we would have to get dumber to get any smarter.
And there are others you haven’t listed here. They’re smart, too.
- JW Insider, Thinking and Dmitar
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13 hours ago, xero said:
Consider that they believe in having large families forces any male mormon to think seriously about doing all he can to acquire the skills needed to get paid or make enough money to support a large family.
Maybe. My insurance man was a Mormon. He died, but I am still with the agency he founded. (whether Mormons or not I am not sure—I think they are) I turned to him upon the recommendation of another Witness for business liability insurance. In time he commented on some scheme I had bought into from some brothers for health care insurance. He’s looked it over, he said, ‘and the premiums are unrealistically low.’ I was a young man then. I said how it is different with the Witnesses because they cut out the middleman and they are not greedy and it is not really insurance but pooled resources and all but said it had God’s smile of approval on it, but in time the monthly newsletter began acknowledging subscribers were asking why their bills were not being paid. To my knowledge, it was not dishonesty, just starry-eyed incompetence. I never got any premiums back, but that is true with any insurance. I never had any claim to submit—it was ‘major medical’ only, not routine doctor visits. I recall a Watchtower observing much later that just because someone is a good Christian, that does not mean he is a good businessman.
13 hours ago, xero said:Incidentally, I've also noted how even though certain beliefs are demonstrably wrong about mormonism, the effects on them seem in many cases to be positive
Yes. Maybe what we see is only what rises to the surface but they are trustworthy people. It is strange because so many of the roots are downright screwy. They originate from my neck of the woods, you know. At an antique/collectibles/junk shop I picked up a set of books by local historian Arch Merrill. Pioneer Profiles (1957) has a chapter on “The Mormon Prophets” There I learned that Joseph Smith was anything but the Mormon equivalent of Charles Taze Russell.
“To many of his neighbors in the drumlin county around Palmyra and Manchester in the restless 1820s, Joe Smith was a lazy, dreamy young bumpkin, one of a shiftless tribe. To them his claims of conversing with angels and receiving divine revelations were so much humbug.
they knew him as “a gangling lad in a calico shirt and patched pants with his yellow hair sticking through a hole in his dirty hat a mystical sort of fellow who was forever digging for buried treasure. peering into a magic stone and finding water in the earth with a twig when to their mind he should have been toiling on his father's farm. They conceded Joe ‘had a way with him’ and was a glib and convincing talker.”
Is the guy just anti-Mormon? Doesn’t seem so. His next sentence is:
“Today that same Joseph Smith is revered by nearly a million people in 30 lands as a divinely inspired prophet. Those fine thrifty people are popularly known as Mormons and from the unlettered farm boys visions of golden plates hidden in a drumlins breast and from my handful of rustic disciples sprano the now mighty Church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints.”
Maybe I’ll have to say of them the same thing I say to people who pound us over the head with inconsistencies from years past: “If you have to go back 100 years to dig up dirt, there can’t be that much dirt to dig.”
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38 minutes ago, Dmitar said:
Keep interacting with your Jehovah Witness friend and former Bethelite, @JW Insider
You mention or tag this fellow so often that I am convinced you are a secret fan. Nothing else can account for this constant craving of yours for his attention.
33 minutes ago, Dmitar said:Once again, as if! I don't already know whose, who.
It is sort of like when a fellow accosted Bob Dylan with “I am your greatest fan!” Dylan looked at him speechless for a second and finally said, “Good for you.”
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1 hour ago, Pudgy said:
had a Mormon friend that said Mormons have 6 months of supplies stashed away.
I wonder if @xeroread that book by the former Mormon that he recommended here. I did. They do some strange doings. (the anti-cultists would go ballistic at the pressure brought to bear on missionaries wanting to leave their assignment before their two years are up.) I tried to take into account that it is written by a former Mormon, not a present one, but even so. It does not have any ‘grinding one’s ax’ feeling to it, though neither does it try to whitewash any rather peculiar procedures and beliefs.
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2 hours ago, ComfortMyPeople said:
- In our explanations it has been said that Russia has worshiped the "god of fortresses" as meaning that it invests a lot in armament (more tanks and less butter), as they used to say.
But according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures it turns out that the USA spends TWICE as Russia, India and China TOGETHER.
Yeah, I have thought about this too. The only caveat is that the West usually does not parade weapons around, as on May Day celebrations during periods of peace. “Fortresses” look much more godlike when that is done.
Then too, the push push push in the West is toward consumer goods (whereas there was almost none of that in the USSR). Thus, even if weapons are a big deal in the West, they look to something else for a god.
2 hours ago, ComfortMyPeople said:drawn from the Western perspective Russia is the bad guy,
I did point out in ‘Don’t Know Why We Persecute’ that there are three instances in which Russia literally saved the world from nuclear annihilation. (Some are arguable, but all are plausible)
1) When a certain colonel saw 5 incoming missiles on the Russian defense grid, judged it to be a malfunction, and told his underlings to ignore it.
2) When one of three commanding officers of a Russian nuclear ship off Cuba refused to authorize use of nuclear missiles. The other two were onboard. Authorization had to be unanimous.
3) Krushchev’s telegram to Kennedy during the missile crisis has the distinct air of walking a more inexperienced leader back from the edge.
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4 hours ago, Thinking said:
I too have admired many different soldiers for their bravery and their deaths…I have cried because of their heroic acts..no matter what nation they were from …
I always hear out veterans. I will seek out their stories whenever I see a ‘Veteran’ designation on door or car. They have no stories to tell and, for the most part, no one wants to hear them. So I do. I often start by observing ‘how can you not admire someone willing to put his life on the line for what he believes?’
I just hear them out, regardless of which way it goes. Sometimes, though I do not insist upon it, I get to throw in the observation that while his/her bravery and conviction is admirable, were he living anywhere else in the world, that bravery and conviction would be directed to another entity, and isn’t that a strange way to run a world?
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2 hours ago, Arauna said:
One can sleep in it if you must but a case of beer don't go far
This reminds me of a pal who used to complain how ones in his territory would act all excited about what he was preaching but would not do anything about it.
As he put it, they hear him out and say: “Wow! What channel is it on?”
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16 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:
I would like to thank @JW Insider for trying to keep it on topic,
He is very orderly that way. He’d make a good librarian. (that old hen)
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2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:
It did create a barrier during Soviet times, according to Baran’s book. A reference or two during Rutherford’s time to the “Iron curtain” didn’t help either. Could they not have said ‘guardrail?’
I am not sure how ‘arbitrary’ it is though, @JW Insider. A ‘pushing and shoving’ between competing systems of government is even how most non-Witnesses view the world
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4 hours ago, Pudgy said:
In the Ukraine right now Ukrainians without joining the military are preparing to defend their homes.
Is anyone threatening to take them? Or is it just a possible “Meet the new boss” who may or may not be “same as the old boss?”
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3 hours ago, JW Insider said:
a current candidate for the King of the North and the King of the South, but it strikes me as very arbitrary
It did create a barrier during Soviet times, according to Baran’s book. A reference or two during Rutherford’s time to the “Iron curtain” didn’t help either. Could they not have said ‘guardrail?’
- JW Insider, Arauna and Melinda Mills
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4 hours ago, Arauna said:
Putin led the nation back to "God" and many have joined the cult of nationalism in quasi-membership of the church.
I guess they have! From KGB direct to Church hierarchy, including the current head Patriarch. Just came across this beaut:
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6 hours ago, Dmitar said:
Glad you admit the difference between "dodo" and asking to have someone banned.
When it comes to banning me, you always have something to say in defense of others, now you what to turn it around, please!
You know exactly what I'm talking about. That woeful fool @Pudgy is as bad as they come, yet NOT ONCE have you suggested for him to be banned. Also, you haven't argued for@Patiently waiting for Truth to be banned, either. Why, because I "refuse" to be part of apostasy, here?
The entire forum could be banned as far as I am concerned. A good many players here could most charitably be described as ‘real pieces of work.’ That doesn’t mean I have ever sought to ban anyone.
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5 hours ago, Dmitar said:
I meant just with me, right @TrueTomHarley. You people just want to insult, criticize, and fight with me. Didn't you just defend @Arauna bullying? I don't see you being critical with that former,,,
I wasn’t thinking about you at all when I made that remark. I meant only that I try not to argue or insult others.
5 hours ago, Dmitar said:Yeah, once in a while when, @Patiently waiting for Truth gets under your skin, you will insult him
Okay, okay, so you’ve got me there. Nobody has infinite patience. But even then it is only with the “dodo” word.
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On 2/24/2022 at 4:39 PM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:
Um, Tom used to call me those names. Is Tom dangerous ???????????????
Once and for all, will you please get it right? I have not called you a “fool” or “stupid.” I have called you a “dodo.”
40 minutes ago, Dmitar said:People just want to fight, and insult others
Not me.
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On 2/25/2022 at 8:31 AM, TrueTomHarley said:
Putin’s spiritual destiny
The religious president wants to rebuild Christendom”
You know, after viewing JWI’s video, I look at this with more skepticism.
It is really just Frazer’s opinion that Putin, aware of the past, wants to drive its repetition, as though on a holy quest. He doesn’t really present facts to link the two. You could even paint Putin as the hero in that he wishes to preserve the traditional role and definition of family. Fraser (I think) is more “progressive” in these matters.
It’s hard to tread water in a sea of liars. I almost regret posting it. Our organization itself avoids getting so specific. Bland though their ‘current events’ articles can seem, (see today’s website lead: ‘Russia Invades Ukraine: Is Bible Prophesy Being Fulfilled?) it is safest to simply point to Daniel pushing and shoving verses and leave it at that. They’re actually just latching on to a headline, but in no way do they explore it.
(Or maybe I’m just mad that he called our tracts “cringeworthy.”)
- Thinking and JW Insider
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49 minutes ago, Pudgy said:
It always bothered me that true Christians seemed to be the ones most afraid to die.
Are they? It doesn’t seem that way to me.
Death is inconvenient and it makes people feel bad. For that reason I hope to put it off as long as I can.
But death itself doesn’t bother me. No problem here with awaiting a resurrection. Hopefully, it won’t cause too much uproar to grant me one.
Of course, you always hope the process itself won’t be too unpleasant.
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8 hours ago, Pudgy said:
He was the third ruler of the land, Under the son of Pharaoh, and my guess is he was roughly the equivalent of here in the United States the Secretary of Defense.
Wasn’t he second only to Pharaoh himself? If so, that would make him Kamala Harris.
7 hours ago, Pudgy said:irregardless
Uh oh.
- Anna, Amidstheroses and Thinking
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10 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:
Remember we are neutral
In the spirit on neutrality I offer up this experience. No way can it be seen as partisan:
A former team leader was from Ukraine. I would ask her whether back home they had this or that, as though a primitive country, and she finally said, ‘Of course we do! You think we live in trees?’ Thereafter it became a running joke. ‘Tatiana, do you have bathrooms in your country?’ ‘No, Tom, we use the woods.’
This is the same team leader who laughed herself silly after both she and I worked under a bigger boss—a real dragon who would take your head off for the slightest infraction. Now, you were supposed to download your machine before leaving one area to enter the one under her supervision. I had forgotten to do it. I knew she’d squawk plenty over it. How to cover up my mistake?
Another employee made the transfer into her area. ”Did you download your machine?” the dragon asked. He admitted he had not. As she glared at him, I said, ’Honestly, I don’t know what is wrong with him! I take him back there myself and make sure he does it!”
I didn’t fool anyone. But I gave them all a good laugh. Even the dragon was temporarily checked.
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2 hours ago, Melinda Mills said:
Remember we are neutral
On day one of the Olympics I stopped by Pearlsnswine’s house and mentioned Biden had tied his shoe.
”We are no part of the world!” he rebuked me.
On day two of the Olympics I stopped by Pearlsnswine’s house and mentioned Trump was playing golf.
”We must keep our eyes on Jersusalem above!” he said.
On day three of the Olympics I stopped by Pearlsnswine’s house and he was watching the games on TV.
”Look at that medal count, Tommy!” he hollered. “We’re cleaning up!”
“THE END IS NEAR - ARE YOU READY?”
in Topics
Posted
Possibly even the Book of Mormon itself. Merrill writes:
”The Book of Mormon went on sale March 26 1830. On April 2nd the Rochester Daily Advertiser printed the first review of the volume. “The Book of Mormon has been placed in our hands. A viler imposition was never practiced. It is an evidence of fraud, blasphemy, and credulity shocking both to Christians and to moralists. The author and proprietor is Joseph Smith junior, a fellow who by some hocus pocus acquired such influence over a wealthy farmer of Wayne County that he later mortgaged his farm for $3000 which he paid for printing and binding... the blasphemous book.”
His wife was deeply suspicious of Smith and his visions. She was vehemently against that farmer, Martin Harris was his name, mortgaging his farm to finance the printing. Harris himself balked at the price tag of the printer, but writes Merrill: “When Harris hesitated Joseph came up with a divine “revelation” ordering him to finance the publication whereupon Harris mortgaged his farm and his wife left him.”
Yeah, I did such things back then but I wouldn’t now. My guess is you would not either. Possibly I should, but they’re just kids far away from home, under enormous pressure to stay where they are. (as @xero’s book makes clear). I am not in position to benefit them but i am in position to mess them up. So if I disagree, I am not forceful about it.
I heard or read somewhere some top Mormon honcho say how much he appreciated when people are nice to their missionaries. ‘I can do that,’ I thought, and I have behaved that way since. In a small town festival in Pennsylvania, my wife and I came across a couple of them at their station. I just engaged them in chat. To their obligatory thrusts I said who and what I was and that an effort to sway me elsewhere would go nowhere. After that I just asked about them, who they were, where they came from, are they homesick, and so forth.
The title character of xero’s—the book is autobiographical—is thwarted from abandoning his assignment, something he really really wants to do. “Have you prayed about it?” a higher up want to know. He replied that he had. ‘What did the Holy Spirit say to you?’ was the follow-up question. He replied that the Holy Spirit had said it was okay. “The Holy Spirit doesn’t work that like!” was his answer.
The book’s author spins his own talk alongside that of Joseph Smith. He has done his homework, spinning some non-Mormon historical details that only someone familiar with the region’s development (which I am) would know.