TrueTomHarley

6 hours ago, Pudgy said:

If you want instruction to be valuable, keep it short, like ....

 

Of course. You have to earn your readership. 

It’s amazing on how people will lay something long and tedious and dogmatic and repetitive and in-your-face on you and simply assume you are obligated to read it, as though you have nothing whatsoever else to do with your time. 

Long stuff is fine. I have no problem with that. But long stuff with the assumption that people will feel obligated to read it points to an author so self-important that you wonder at her mindset.

Not to mention the sanctimoniousness of those who stuff tractor-trailer loads of scripture into their diatribes, with little or no effort to establish applicability. After all, as every Bible reader knows, you-know-who is able to quote scripture, too.

What he is not able to do is teach and build up others with it. Accordingly, I note that Witness has still. not responded to Aruana’s request to specify just what does she believe, if anything, other than that her “rivals” have outmaneuvered her and she is steamed about it. I won’t even swear that she has never gone there. It is just that with nearly all of her writing devoted to her pet peeve, who has the time to search to see if there are any diamonds among the turds?

1 hour ago, Witness said:

This isn't about Russia.  It is about your leadership who dominate the priesthood - the GB who "direct" the elder body to "represent the royal priesthood" Before you spout off in ignorance, READ THE LETTER.

Nothing is about anything with you, it seems, other than taking incessant shots at the ones you crazily think have cheated you from your stage and position. 

As stated, reading that endless letter will take months, since practically a reread of the whole Bible is required, for the absurd number of verses cited.

Never have I seen a greater harvesting of scripture to gather such a bumper crop of decayed fruit into the storehouse.

Very well, go back to kicking against the goads and embrace unhappiness. Did I not give you my all with kindness and respect? Sheesh.

46 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

What exactly are the “fundamental doctrines” for JW members?

It is impossible for you to be unclear on this point—it has been clarified by several people on several occasions, and it doesn’t even have be clarified. It is simply a matter of common sense. I go back to by original thesis that you are just being disingenuous 

It reminds me of a scene from Tom Irregardless and Me, in which my old pioneer partner gone bad, Vic Vomodog, summons me to his deathbed:

“My old friend Vic Vomodog! We used to pull together shoulder to shoulder in the work! How I regretted having cut him off when he’d changed sides. How judgmental I’d been! If only I could have another chance! His pained eyes met mine from his hospital bed. With trembling hand, he beckoned me close. I strained to catch his last words:

“‘There’s two, Tommy. That Watchtower you study? It’s not the same as what the public reads. You’re being indoctrinated, buddy. When are you going to wake up? They’re different.’

“Oh, for crying out loud! I rolled my eyes and he died. Of course they’re different! When Stephen Hawking has his science chums over, do you think they crack open their Physics 101 college textbooks?”

I swear there are some lunatics like this. Their last dying breath they will use to disparage Jehovah’s organization.

54 minutes ago, Witness said:

But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 

You crazy women, if they were mighty they would tell Russian cops to lay off and the latter would wet themselves for doing what they have done.

42 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Rachel has received replies from elders, who have taken her message to the GB.

How about sharing with us the details?

Well, I can’t speak for the GB, but I can speak for the clandestine branch that I head as a very very very important JW leader. When I received my copy of the letter, my heart sank right down, not just into my toes, but beyond them, and started rolling down the aisle.

Immediately I called a meeting with my fellow clandestine leaders  When I read it to them, like Shaphan the Book of the Law to Josiah, they all proceeded to weep and rip their garments. 

They ripped them to such an extent that upon leaving the building, they were arrested for public indecency. 

I’m sorry, try as I might, I cannot take this ridiculous ultimatum to every living breathing thing in God’s organization more seriously. I am reminded of that Star Trek scene in which Mr. Spock promises Dr. McCoy to give his proposal all the attention it deserves. He pauses but a split second, then resumes his duties.

12 hours ago, Witness said:

It is very possible that any JW leader who has passed by here, may have already received one.

I am a JW leader, a very very very important one, let me tell you, so of course I received one.

But since it quotes every verse in the Bible for support, I will not be able to respond until I read the entire Book again, and since I have many other things to do (that is alway true of us leaders) it will be a few months before I can respond to it.

Seriously, what is wrong with the crazy woman (answered my own question), composing a tongue-lashing letter so astoundingly long and having it 

12 hours ago, Witness said:

mailed to branch offices and kingdom halls around the world. 

Self-important, anyone?

On 7/2/2021 at 1:56 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

Maybe I think so because I’m not happy with my life (for a very, very long time).

Are you sure this is not a matter of “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? Kicking against the goads makes it hard for you?”

Seriously. I respect you for saying this, for many unhappy people will nonetheless maintain that they are happy, I think yielding to peer pressure that would equate being unhappy with being a loser. When you read relatively high percentages of those who say they are overall happy AND relatively high percentages of those who say they are consumed with anxiety, stress, and depression, to the point of medical treatment, you know something is amiss.

Nor would I ever suggest that all of Jehovah’s people are happy in their present life—all creation is sighing and groaning, is the way Paul puts it—but they get by with what humanists would regard as “cheating,” keeping their gaze on the things above instead of the things below, keeping their eye on the prize when tears and pain will pass away, with earth restored to paradise, looking to the resurrection hope, keeping their eye ‘simple’ in the present system, and so forth.

Of course, the GB encourages that view and builds upon it because the Bible encourages and builds upon it. It is integral to Paul saying he has learned the secret of how to be content regardless of his circumstances, in times of abundance and in times of want.

Seriously, what are you doing here, running down the GB, making that a significant project in your life? What is the point of it? Are you not kicking against the goads? 

The core doctrines of JWs all hold up in their eyes. If I recall, you have questioned what the core doctrines are, as though you would include matters of immediate timing among them. I’ve thought you must be disingenuous in the question, for every Witness knows what they are, and for that reason I don’t go there. But maybe you are sincere in the question, having been away so long, and surrounded by those on a crusade to undercut, significantly contributing to it yourself—maybe all that has served to muddy the waters on what any Witness has no problem with, confusing the ‘core doctrines’ with interpretations of just when the end will come.

Look, everyone knows that looking into the future is not a piece of cake—why keep harping on it? Witnesses are content that the bros taking the lead are doing the best they can, are overall conducting themselves honorably and in fear of God. Most importantly, on matters of advertising and safeguarding the core doctrines, they are doing splendidly. No one else is representing kingdom interests better. Never is it that ALL the core teachings are represented elsewhere, and with the majority of faiths, very few indeed are represented, even none at all. Why do you keep harping on the ones who have succeeded and are succeeding in this? Particularly if you suggest that such a course may lead ones to a place you occupy, a place where you are not very happy and have not been for a long time? What’s the point of it? 

It may be that you are dissatisfied, not the with 20% (as Arauna puts it) but with the 80% Maybe you think the Bible itself is but the word of men, and that to impute divine inspiration into it is nonsense. It is far easier to understand your critical course in this event. It is far more intellectually honest to acknowledge this as your basis for discontent. If so, these are the matters to grapple with, if that be possible, the 80%, rather than taking shots at the forecasting ability of those taking the lead in the JW organization. 

Come now, attend to these things if you can. The point is, should we die in this system of things, that we should die “old and satisfied with days.”

5 hours ago, Pudgy said:

perhaps (if they exist at all,

I understand they’re known to kidnap dogs for bizarre experiements.

3 hours ago, ApostaBabe Linda James said:

Are you referring to extraterrestrials when saying, "they'll just have to work it out for themselves."? What are you referring to when saying "it?"

I mean if they screw up as much as we do, they’ll need some provision to smooth over their screwups. And the ransom provision is for us. We ain’t sharing.

On the other hand, if they came all the way from outer space to find us, and not we them, then perhaps they don’t screw up and don’t need the ransom so badly.

22 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Are you calling all the core teachings such as Jehovah's name, mortality of the soul, Babylon the great, political neutrality and much more ... untrustworthy? 

Yeah, what about that @Witness? Do you believe in any of the core teachings? Which ones & which ones not?

Imagine! A person should be one this platform ceaselessly for 5 years and it should be necessary to ask her that.

22 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Not saying that BroRando hasn't been here before under a different name, or that he has. But I'm sure he is not CC/BtK/Allen/etc/etc/etc/etc.

They’ve used a phrase or two in common, that’s all. 

It would be a remarkable change of m.o. if he was BroRando. Changes from CC to BtK to Allen to whoever—the “new” persona is instantly recognizable. BroRando is significantly different.

For one thing, CC was seldom very interested in offering anything. He just was here to shoot people and their ideas down. Say what you will about BroRando, he certainly is interested in offering stuff.

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

That changes to the official text on WTJWorg applications can happen in an instant, and that what you read this morning may look different if you read in the afternoon.

It is not as though the digital world is their invention. They adapt to it. They’d be dinosaurs not to. Everyone fixes glitches on the fly now. Should they be the only ones to buck that trend? 

2 hours ago, Pudgy said:

most of the time the father … proclaims that the Planet Mars and Mars Candy Bars have a common heritage, and produces charts and graphs, and millions of words to "prove" it.

You’ll just have to learn the hard way, I see.

5 hours ago, Anna said:

saying "we really don't know, but this is our opinion" is never out of fashion

It actually is, for an emergency worker. 

When you shoot yourself in the foot, you just grimace as you patch the wound and carry on. You don’t resolve never to shoot again.

When de Vienne & Shultz ran their early book past the organization, it was received without comment. She speculated as to why this might be. One possibility she raised was that they “are incurious as to their own past.” Tamp it down just slightly and I would agree. They don’t do past too much there, they do the future. 

Should they “lead by apology,” which is all the rage today? They don’t want to find themselves in the shoes of Lot, issuing counsel only to find that his sons-in-law think he is joking. 

It may have been the same organization back then, but it was different people. There’s no sense in tearing your hair out over what they did or didn’t do. I’m amazed people have the time to persevorate over the old stuff as much as they do. That’s not to say I disapprove of it. In fact, I somewhat envy it. But there is so much forward and in the present that limits overly-ruminating on the past. They’re humans and humans can screw up. Since the beginning of time it has been so. It was so in Bible times and can be easily seen in the scriptures. Acknowledge it, and move on to meet the present.

4 hours ago, Arauna said:

Since most of the core teachings (Jehovah's name, mortality of the soul etc.) cannot be faulted..... 

should we focus on the 20 percent or the 80 percent? 

Exactly.

2 hours ago, ApostaBabe Linda James said:

The Pope said that they were open to sharing the gospel with Extraterrestrials if or when they arrived here on 🌎.

Nah. “In all the inhabited earth” will suffice. Whatever gig they have going up there on whatever planet, they’ll just have to work it out themselves.

23 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

I would rate that video three wags.

 

What about my photo of Devil’s Tower, you flea-bitten mutt? Where’s the like for that? It’s from the movie, after all.

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I see you've left out the 120 years this time.
 

He did this because it might come before.

32 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

I fell back on my original opinion that it was probably because no one was being all that supportive of the 2034 prediction,

I see you haven’t visit my gift shop to peruse my new line placard, sweatshirt, and accessories offerings: “2034 is the Door!”

I actually didn’t know you could take down your own thread. Comments, yes, but not the whole thread, and even comments only for a limited time. There are some turkeys of mine that long ago would have bit the dust had I known that.

“There is nothing more important than appearing to be religious.”

That being the case, we’re good here.

39 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

And this on the bottom of every post you make :-

Author of two ebooks, one on opposition to the Witness work in Russia, one on opposition in Western lands. Both 1/3 free preview.

www.smashwords.com  , search: Tom Harley 

This is called a signature. I don’t manually type it out each time, you know. It is time for an update. Thanks for reminding me. I don’t recall what is the free preview on TTvtA, but the entire ebook work of Don’t Know Why is free.

Despite the 200 glitches, and I suspect once I release it I could fine-tune for 200 more (but I won’t), I am very very pleased with it—a vast improvement over that turkey Dear Mr. Putin, which I am embarrassed ever to have unleashed. The new book has four sections: 1) Assault—the ban and its immediate repercussions, 2) Apologia—reasons for the ban are nowhere explicitly stated by Russian, authorities, so I have stated some, as well as how they might be defended, 3) Testimony—the best defense is an offense, someone said, and so these are chapters in which I witness, and 4) Endurance—aftermath of the ban, which took a darker turn than anyone would have predicted, but also put Jehovah’s name and kingdom into the international spotlight. 

Nor are parts 2 and 3 divorced from Russian context. They are both illustrated by Russian examples, making the book a cohesive whole. It has garnered a review already (the more the better, any author says). It is not unmitigated praise, but it is fair. I like it. Straight “5” reviews only indicate you have a lot of friends, anyway. I like honest criticism—in this case it is primarily concerned with reliance on AI for translation, and certain clunky writing that maybe the 200 corrections will alleviate . Although the seemingly clunky AI translating of Bro Sivulsky is actually his own remarks word for word, he speaking English as a second language. So it’s good. Remember, I said in my introduction, I am an American who still thinks Ilya Kuriaken of the Man from UNCLE was a pretty good Russian super spy, even though I recall Pravda or someone saying that he was not and how could those ridiculous Americans think so.

25 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

However IF JWs believed that ONLY God's written Word was needed, then the Watchtower would not have wasted millions of pounds/dollars/euros, of donated money in writing hundreds of books over the years. And all of which are untrue.... 

sigh….Nor would any other books be written about the Bible by anyone, nor would anyone else ever comment on it, nor would anyone ever teach it, or expound upon it, or interpret it. Anything other than a direct quote would be taboo.

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

the Devil works in many crafty ways. 

2 hours ago, Thinking said:

That comment about a fellow brother shows you have a real problem with ego….and a great need to be right……can you prove he did that…..or

This reminds me of a scene from Tom Irregardless and Me in which I bring my Bible Student Ted Putsch along on my return visit with Bernard Strawman and the two can’t stand one another. “It couldn’t be simpler!” Ted all but shouts at the pompous fellow, “or is that what is the problem with you?!”

This is not to say that JWI is like Bernard, only that there is almost hostility from Ted, who is ‘zealous for God.’ (I suspect Bro Rando is something like Ted.)  I’ll come to JWI’s defense, even as I say I think he’s off-base and if he should get into hot water over it, I will say ‘it’s on him.’ I’ll do it because I like both you guys, Thinking and him

As best as I can tell, he’s indulging a hobby, the same as everyone else here is. It’s a pastime, same as it is for others. I suppose answering him with rancor is also a pastime, if you get worked up over what he says. You should do it. Why not? It’s not as though I am exactly nice to certain other ones on this forum.

He doesn’t bring it into the Kingdom Hall. He also has no problem with the notion of humans taking the lead. As far as I can see, he teaches what Witnesses teach, with the caveat now and then of saying that ‘this is our present understanding,’ instead of ‘this is the way it is!!’ I don’t have a problem with him. He’s on a tiny internet backwater forum regularly followed by (as he said, and from all appearances it seems to be so) 6 six heroes and 6 villains. Perhaps there are that many again who follow along, but beyond that, I doubt there is any audience beyond the fluke visitor now and then. Of course, once you put something on the internet, ‘it stays there forever!!!’ but it is also immediately buried, and not so easily found even by one searching for it. Not a problem for me. It is when he publishes a book of separatism like Rulf that I’ll leave him to twist in the wind.

He’s indulging a pastime, laying his opinions out with as much support as he can muster, maybe even imagining someone in high places will pick up and mull over it. Everyone here is indulging a pastime. No one, even of the good guys, is a stereotypical Witness. One thing he doesn’t do is link to his own website, as several here do, including myself. Some are going into overdrive on it, Bro Rando and the woman from the hills, I think. PSomH thinks I am here to promote my books. Of course I am in part, but if I really was, believe me, it would be much more in-your-face than the occasional references that I make. 

As an example, here I have received my author’s copy of I Don’t Know Why We Persecute Jehovah’s Witnesses: Searching for the Why. Even after numerous proofs, some by self and some by others, when I see it in print, I immediately make about 200 corrections! Whoa! do I appreciate the advantage of a publisher who edits! None of the corrections are major at this point, nor even typos per say, but small glitches that make for reading not so smooth as could be. Once I upload the amended version, finally finally finally a print book is good to go on Amazon. And then I’ll even abuse my stay more here, for this one will have a modest price of $15, though the ebook on most venues will continue to be free. After that I get Tom Irregardless, also TrueTom vs the Apostates into print, also after similar revisions, no doubt.

So if JWI bends the forum to his own purposes, so do I. So do many here. I’m not sure what else IS the purpose of this forum other than that, for in ideal theocracy all the loyal ones will stick with jw.org and all the soreheads will mutter because they cannot picket online conventions. 

So it’s okay to slap him down. Seriously, I have no problem with that, as I have no problem with his long-winded answers, which I do read but usually not too closely. Maybe that is the reason I see no ‘threat’ in them. It’s not the approach I favor, it’s not how I process things. The notion of figuring everything out through pure scholarship doesn’t wash with me, particularly when it is so out of sync with (I love the expression) ‘the facts on the ground.’ If outside scholarship ought not be required on account of the Word making the workman completely equipped, and that argument is used as to chronology, I see no reason why it shouldn’t equally apply here. The ‘facts on the ground’ can be appreciated by most everyone. But the facts on the ground of 100-200 years ago, all openly updated as needed by “tacking” and “new light,” and nobody pretends otherwise, seems not a requirement of the average Joe Witness, but an optional specialty to be chased down by those with the time, talents, and interest.

10 hours ago, Pudgy said:

So, totally clueless, eh?

Not at all. I would say, as I have heard someone else say, “With God all things are possible!”

2 hours ago, Pudgy said:

how will that affect your theological view of the Universe?

 

I would elevate the Byrds to status of True Prophet:

36 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

But why tom should want to re-visit this topic I've no idea. Is he just looking for more rocks to throw at me  

I apologize. It’s all the rage these days.

On 7/24/2020 at 5:06 AM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

To all concerned, I didn't start this as a topic. I presume Admin ??? started it using my name, which to me is slightly unfair (and that is putting it politely).

 

It may be he did it because you carried on like such a baby, threatening to report me, after I made some astute comments that you didn’t like.