TrueTomHarley

Why do I have the irresistible urge to start a new account?

”Patiently sitting on my hands until God gets himself in gear and sends the true anointed.”

Preparing to conduct a Bible study later. So much is packed into these videos to show death is not a launching pad into heaven or hell. I like this one about Lazarus raised after 4 days. Wouldn’t he have been annoyed to be hauled out of heaven? (or cool his tush in a bucket of water had he gone to the other place.)

https://www.jw.org/finder?srcid=jwlshare&wtlocale=E&lank=docid-502017858_1_VIDEO

If the guy agreed with Jehovah’s Witnesses in every aspect, he would be one. He isn’t, so manifestly he doesn’t. No one ever said he did.

A recognized expert writing a brief for the court is the most unremarkable thing in the legal world. You need not act as though it is something shocking.

As to Witness’s false-piety-on-steroids, and her ‘What need have Witnesses for a legal tool of the world?’ the same could be said for automobiles. Why should any Christian have one? Let God’s spirit take them wherever they want to go. Why use a machine manufactured by the world.?

His article that JWs are the most persecuted religion in the world is a reflection upon the U.S. government agency’s report, not his own. It is also separate for any brief he has written for any court case. He hasn’t opined similarly about the many other groups he has spoken in behalf of, he the author of some 70 books.

37 minutes ago, Witness said:

How do JWs feel that their leadership must hire a lobbyist who defends Scientology as well?

How do you feel that you must purchase electricity from the company that also sells it to the neighbor you don’t like?

How do you feel about practicing the slimiest trick in the book—guilt by association?

He’s a scholar of religion. He is not a Scientologist himself, nor a Jehovah’s Witness. He is a Roman Catholic. His “lobbyism” is simply that bigotry does not run the minor religions off the road. If there is any running off the road to be done, it will be for God to do. In the meantime, they have the right to exist.

All these other groups he speaks for—Witnesses don’t agree with any other them, nor they with us. But we will do battle with them in the arena of ideas, not by attempting to legislate them out of existence. “Mischief by decree,” I think it is called.

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

What I noticed was that there were no negative articles about SpaceX. Instead of admitting "debris" about the rocket booster falling out of orbit, there is talk of a fantastic display, and a dazzling sky show.

Some metallic debris crashed through the ceiling of my house, grazed the edge of my bed, bolting me upright, and set fire to the clothes locker. Furious, I got XI on the phone and was prepared to give him a piece of my mind when I saw USA on the crumpled wing.

”Anything for the homeland,” I said, and went back to sleep.

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

I should also mention that some of the problem could be the "cult of Elon Musk."

Few things are funnier than seeing the SNL libs go into conniptions at the thought of working with him.

35 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

you are full of hate. Hate for me and hate for truth....Keep quoting your lady friend if it makes you happy. You seem hung up on her....I'm laughing at your weak way of playing the Emperor's New Clothes.   But the things you say are so weak and false.

Oh, come now! It is not possible for anyone to be so obtuse! You are putting me on! 

Look, Witness, and KickedFace, and Matthew4 5784, and Shwiiiiiiiiii and Sreckohehehe ))))), and several others all want what you want—the destruction of the JW organization. They all are using the CSA issue to that end. But they are all smart enough not to provide proof positive of it. None of them are so stupid as to say:

“I am only interested in the CSA within the W/t, CCJW, JW Org, and their other orgs / titles.  The reason being that the GB et al keep spouting that 'God and Christ trust them' and that JWs have the ONLY true religion / way of serving God.”

Is it any wonder that, in my moments of weakness, I yield to that weakness and call you a dodo. This is my greatest persecution—right here. 

4 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

But you Tom seem to need to dig at me for any reason.

You consistently wear such a huge “Kick Me” sign on your behind that I find it hard to resist.

But I am trying. You remember this line from the other thread?

“Is it possible for you not to notice that you exactly validate what [Holly Folk] says?”

It was originally: “Is it possible that you are so stupid so as not to notice that you exactly validate what she says?”

I changed it (trust me on this) not because my assessment of your brightness had increased. I changed it so as to be instructed by several here who are better than I at “not paying back injury with injury.”

14 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

You have twisted my words because you don't like the truth

What I have done is reported your words. I added nothing. I took away nothing. They confirm just what Holly Folk said. 

17 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I am only interested in the CSA within the W/t, CCJW, JW Org, and their other orgs / titles.  The reason being that the GB et al keep spouting that 'God and Christ trust them' and that JWs have the ONLY true religion / way of serving God. 

There is no concern here whatsoever for children. Otherwise you would be interested in it outside the JWs (because that’s where almost all of it is). The reason you care only obout CSA within JWs is that they claim to be the only true religion.

Quite clearly, it is religious hate that motivates you, and you are using child abuse victims, victimizing them all over again, to pursue that hate.

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

So do not take this judge's censure too seriously

In all probability, the reporter saw a Watchtower in the trash, and that was enough for them to be “devout Jehovah’s Witnesses.”

Within the last few weeks, 4Jah (who for some inane reason, has changed his name—perhaps because “jah” now offends him) has posted a lawyer’s trolling for clients as though it was cutting edge reporting. And Witness heralded some rumor about Watchtower and the ARC and almost immediately had to take it back as it proved false.

No one has time to unravel them all, but this will prove to be something similar. Or it may be just as you said, an end case of dementia or a mate who could no longer see the other suffer. As to somehow it becoming the fault of elders, we routinely hear of atrocities committed today and it turns out that the persons had been reported previously to police. But they receive so many of these reports, from so many persons, that they can’t possibly keep up, and such reports fall through the cracks. There is at most a quick visit by a social worker to pronounce counsel was given & all is now okay, and then a mass shoot-em-up occurs. 

Charles Manson’s greatest contribution to society—some would say his only contribution, was to say: “It used to be that being crazy meant something. Nowadays, everyone is crazy.”

7 hours ago, Pudgy said:

and of course, I am taking about King David

In order to count up the dead for the records,, Egyptians would routinely cut off the right hand of those slain. But there were occasions that they took the penises, in order to allay any charge that they were killing women.

As for Roger, there is a story of him autographing a paper for a 7-year-old. Whereupon the 7-year-old complained that he had not signed “James Bond.” He took the kid into his confidence and informed how he had to sign “Roger Moore” because there might be agents of Biofeld around.

Decades later, the lad worked in the movie industry, ran across Roger again, and related the story. Roger smiled, but said he didn’t remember the incident.

Later in the parking lot he told the fellow: “Of course I remember. But I had to be careful. Biofeld might be monitoring the conversation.”

On 5/4/2021 at 2:38 PM, TrueTomHarley said:

It is just as Holly Folk says. There are poeple who feign interest in victims of child abuse in pursuit of what, for them, is a much greater goal.

8 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Wow and another female 'star' of yours. You seem to love these ladies.

Is it possible for you not to notice that you exactly validate what she says?

8 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

I am only interested in the CSA within the W/t, CCJW, JW Org, and their other orgs / titles.

It is just as she says. If you actually cared about children, you would be interested in CSA outside the “W/t, CCJW, JW Org, and their other orgs / titles,” because that’s where almost all of it is. Carrying on as though children mattered to you—it is all a ruse! 

And why do you care only of this tiny subset of CSA cases?

8 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

The reason being that the GB et al keep spouting that 'God and Christ trust them' and that JWs have the ONLY true religion / way of serving God. 

Translation: Witnesses say they are the one true religion.

It has nothing to do with children! It has everything to do with your own bigoted vendetta, exactly as Holly Folk said. 

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

And I have no interest in James Bond either. Sex, murder and violence on film, is that really your thing Tom ? 

He can corkscrew jump a river in an AMC Rambler. Can you do that?

It is not easy targeting a diverse group. Personalities differ. Levels of education differ. One person overreacts while his neighbor says, ‘Huh—did you say something?’

But the May Broadcast, with special focus on persecution, most notably in Russia today, with abundant film footage of events unfolding, is excellent and for everyone. 

Though not commonplace, there have been police officers holding back and even resigning. Once they felt pride at enforcing the law to the benefit of citizens. Today they are being told to beat up on old people and terrorize children. 

Most of several segments is on persecution (and prophesy). What isn’t on that intertwined topic is for young people.

13 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Do you actually read this stuff ?  and you let it affect your mind 

This is why you don’t know anything about anything.

You read only what feeds into what you already think.

The point is, she doesn’t know a single person (zilch, zero, nada, as JTR would have put it)) that has not been abused as a child. 

And she is not so ridiculous as you—she does not drink the Kool-Aid as do you—to think that it is on account of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

With every person she knows abused as a chid, this tells us nothing of Jehovah’s Witnesses. What it tells us is about the basic building blocks of contemporary society. Does it not trace back to the so-called Ancient Greek foundation of Western civilization—the ancient Greeks who were the original pedophiles? (You will not know of this because you don’t know anything, but you can ask JWI, he can confirm it for you, and then you can tell him he is wrong about it.)

No wonder child activists are pulling their hair out, but I think they will never root out the problem because it is a building block of this world. I like that Billie Eilish just puts it out there plainly, without spin. She does not deceitfully try to work the facts so as to take out her enemy. (if she has one)

It is just as Holly Folk says. There are poeple who feign interest in victims of child abuse in pursuit of what, for them, is a much greater goal.

https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2021/02/holly-folk-speaks-to-child-sexual-abuse-among-jehovahs-witnesses.html

Billie, btw, is a phenomenal talent. She does the cover for the latest James Bond movie, No Time to Die.

No wonder reformers are pulling their hair out. The issue has nothing to do with Jehovah Witnesses, other than Witnesses put significant energy into educating to prevent it.

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

Where ever one finds children there will be those with a sick mind who will be opportunistic or predatory.

Here’s the latest from Billie Eilish, the newest singing sensation, who until recently dressed like a sack of potatoes and wore her hair green:

https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2021/may/02/billie-eilish-says-all-her-age-group-have-suffered-sexual-misbehaviour

She says she doesn’t know a single peer who hasn’t experienced some sort of underage abuse. “It’s everywhere.”

This is the world human rulership has delivered to us. Notice how she breaks ranks with 4Jah and Witness and doesn’t blame it on Jehovah’s Witnesses.

it’s hard to know whose venom is worse—that of 4Jah or Witness. Let us designate Witness for top ‘honors,’ though, because while 4Jah loathes the GB because he loathes them, Witness loathes them for that reason AND because they are her rivals—she being one of the “actual anointed” that they ‘forbid to speak with each other’—how they have authority over her, as she left the Witnesses aeons ago, I haven’t a clue. But if Witnesses didn’t listen to them, then maybe they would listen to her, and that appears to be what gets her going.

The “sins” of the Christian organization, as seen in the brief above, are actually quite mild, less than society in general and less that of other religious communities. Yet she and 4Jah storm against them that their persecution is no more than what they deserve—it is merited retribution for their sins. 

That being the case, it is hard to imagine either of the two not dismissing the religious persecution of any group as no more than what they deserve. Few themes are as constant in the Bible as how the people of God will be rewarded in this system of things with persecution. Few themes are as constant in the Bible as how “there is no man who does not sin,” even “many times.” Many NT verses tell of the flaws and mistakes among the early disciples. So who is she going to find that is more undeserving of persecution than JWs? Or will she deny the Lord himself, taking the side of Satan: “Be kind to yourself—you will not have this destiny [of persecution] at all?”

There is not a bit of forgiveness in her toward her rivals. Is it not an inescapable conclusion that she would be cheering the persecution of Christians in Nero’s Rome? When they were thrown to the lions or hung as public lanterns, “God withdrew his spirit—they’re just being repaid for their sins,” the two of them would say.”

What nasty pieces of work they are.

It may be that I should have posted this topic in an area closed off from enemies of the Witnesses. I thought about it, but in the end put it here to see what shots they would take, and from that, maybe tighten it up or rewrite portions. They’ve come up with very little. It is stated with such vitriol that it may seem more than it is, but there is nothing that hasn’t been dealt with innumerable times before. 

4Jah raises just one topic. It is the one he always raises. It seems like more than it is because he restates it again and again, but it is just one topic. (He does briefly flirt with JWs not serving in the military, but in the end concludes that it is proper for them to do as they do.) 

Witness corroborates the CSA allegations, then adds her additional normal fury that Christians should be organized so as to get things done, then adds her usual goobledigook incomprehensible to anyone but her, mostly having to do with how she, as a “actual anointed” (her only qualifications being that she claims the status) should be listened to, along with her co-actual-anointed. 

Introvigne is one of a group of scholars—all of them professors of religion—who wrote a brief for a Dutch court. It is a very lengthy brief (though not by the standards of a legal brief) but it addresses all complaints raised above.

Noting that CSA is the universal plague among humankind, it states:

“We have no doubt that serious cases of sexual abuse have occurred among Jehovah’s Witnesses, and that some have not been properly reported to the civil authorities. Given the size of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, the contrary would be surprising.”

It then goes on to state that, by the Court’s own data, Witness compliance with reporting CSA to police is higher, not lower, than the general Dutch population who are not the subjects of investigation, and higher than a much larger American Catholic community. In short, the court zeroes in on Jehovah’s Witnesses based upon a highly suspect and largely unconfirmable recruitment survey, when their own data indicates others do far worse.

https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/binaries/rijksoverheid/documenten/rapporten/2020/01/23/tk-bijlage-1-expert-opinion/tk-bijlage-1-expert-opinion.pdf

As to the self-reported victims of CSA who are dissatisfied with how their cases were handled:

Those of us who have studied sexual abuse know that “dissatisfaction with handling” is widespread, and also applies to how cases are handled by the police and secular courts. Sexual abuse is such a horribly traumatic experience that no “handling” is perceived by the victims as totally adequate. It is, again, unfair to single out Jehovah’s Witnesses as if the “dissatisfaction with handling” would concern only them, while it is a common phenomenon in cases of sexual abuse in general.

The brief finds “problematic” that JWs are singled out, when their record is better than that of most. Also that upon publication of the court’s report: Many if not most will only read titles in the media, and will be easily persuaded that the Jehovah’s Witnesses are “bad” citizens, more prone than other Dutch to sexual abuse and the protection of the abusers, while in fact even the figures of the Report suggest that the opposite is the case. 

Don’t persecute them! a certain foe with no use for Witnesses urged Russia. You’ll just feed into their “persecution complex.”

Well—sure. The best way to feed a “persecution complex” is to persecute whoever has it. On the other hand—which came first: the chicken or the egg?  If there really is persecution, who says it is a persecution complex? Isn’t reality the word he is searching for?

In December 2020, there came an United States Commission on International Religious Freedom report—it is a bipartisan commission, and thus not a product of any one political administration—entitled: “The Global Persecution of Jehovah’s Witness.” Religious scholar Massino Introvigne digests it and issues the obvious byline: “Jehovah’s Witnesses: The World’s Most Persecuted Religion.” 

The report serves to erase all doubt, even among Witnesses themselves, that theirs is the most persecuted religion today. It is not that other faiths do not suffer persecution from place to place—they certainly do—at times more brutal than that of the Witnesses. It is that no matter where you go, the Witnesses face it in one form or another. The USCIRF focuses on nine different nations—they are all assigned subheadings: Eritrea, Russia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Singapore, and South Korea, but makes clear that these are just the tip of the iceberg, which does “not include the many other countries where the faith is banned or faces official harassment. The situation is ultimately even bleaker than our survey might indicate.”

Those many verses about persecution?

“You will be objects of hatred by all the nations on account of my name.” (Matthew 24:9)

“All those desiring to live with godly devotion in association with Christ Jesus will also be persecuted.” (2 Tim 3:12)

If the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you..  If you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own....Bear in mind the word I said to you, A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will persecute you also.” (John 15:18-20)

and others? They are fulfilled upon the group whose members approach persons one-on-one to speak “about God and bearing witness to Jesus.” (Revelation 1:9) There were repercussions when John did it—exile to the island of Patmos. There are repercussions today. In Russia, it has been exile to Siberia.

Jehovah’s Witnesses are pacifists—why shouldn’t non-pacifists earn the ‘extremist’ label? They’re industrious. Why shouldn’t those who leach off society top the list? They’re obedient to government authority. Why shouldn’t the disobedient be ‘extremist?’ They live, work, and school in the community; they visit their neighbors with Bible thoughts. Why shouldn’t the reclusive and secretive hermits take top ‘extremist’ honors? Even those who dislike them will describe them individually as “very nice people.” Why shouldn’t those not nice win first ‘extremist’ prize? The easiest gig a cop will ever pull is to be assigned traffic control outside the Regional Convention. Everyone smiles at him or nods a greeting. No one calls him a pig. Why doesn’t a group where people do call him a pig take top ‘extremist’ honors?

It is crazy, so contrary to what anyone would expect, yet it is the way things are. So crazy is it, yet so exactly fulfilling Bible expectations, that it all but screams: Here they are! Here are the people hated for doing good—exactly as the Bible said would be the case! The top dishonor of ‘most persecuted’ becomes the top honor of ‘identifying the people taken from the nations for God’s name.’ (Acts 15:14) It is why I ended a chapter in I Don’t Know Why We Persecute Jehovah’s Witnesses: Searching for the Why with: “When searching the field of religion, look for the group that is individually praised but collectively maligned.”

As for suffering under persecution, Jehovah’s Witnesses will be fortified with: “What merit is there in it if, when you are sinning and being slapped, you endure it? But if, when you are doing good and you suffer, you endure it, this is a thing agreeable with God.” (1 Peter 2:20-21) “Look! We pronounce happy those who have endured”—the James 5:11 verse is woven into the current circuit assembly program. As is Proverbs 27:11: “Be wise, my son, and make my heart rejoice, that I may make a reply to him that is taunting me.” It is the Devil taunting God, as he did with Job, that a person will serve God only when the going is easy.

If you peer into the pants of this or that king to tell of his soiled underwear, you can expect him to get mad. But what if you treat him with respect while you simply go about your innocuous business? Won’t he leave you alone? You would certainly think so, is the gist of Introvigne’s parting remark, but—alas—it is not so:

“What the Jehovah’s Witnesses defend is the right to live differently, in this world, yet part of a kingdom ‘not of this world,’ as Jesus says in John 18:36. Are our societies prepared to tolerate those who live in a way different from the majority’s, as long as they are peaceful, honest, and law-abiding citizens? That the answer is ‘no’ in an increasing number of countries proves that our world is becoming a dangerous environment for religious liberty.”

(Original post here)

On 4/29/2021 at 2:34 PM, 4Jah2me said:

Take care and be good y'all.

Seven people tagged but you didn’t say goodbye to Cesar.

He has feelings, too, you know.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

So it seems to me that it may be an exaggeration to talk about JW as the only group of people who will suffer the most from adversity or be the only target by the secular world.

On the other hand, maybe it isn’t:

https://bitterwinter.org/jehovahs-witnesses-the-worlds-most-persecuted-religion/

The BitterWinter article links to an USCRIF government report. It is remarkable that it should be this way, given Witnesses’ non-violence, non-meddling in politics, industriousness instilled in members, that individually they are nearly always described as “nice people.”

The scriptures speak so assuredly of persecution. For example: “All those desiring to live with godly devotion in association with Christ Jesus will also be persecuted.” 2 Tim 3:12.

And then the group that most notably fulfills that verse is Jehovah’s Witnesses. I even end a chapter of the new book, I Don’t Know Why We Persecute Jehovah’s Witnesses: Searching for the Why with: “When searching the field of religion, look for the group that is individually praised but collectively maligned.”

16 hours ago, xero said:

I'm not sure what's worse - seeing God acting everywhere or never seeing his hand in anything at all.

I’ve never heard it put this way before.

I also wonder if I can trick 4Jah and CC into giving me upvotes by posting photos like this:

17 hours ago, Anna said:

But I guess you have no self control Tom,

Bingo.

It’s the pure nastiness of one, not to mention the pure dodo-headedness of another. These annoy far more than the posts themselves, though sometimes the two are hard to unravel.

After Paul makes his speech in the Areopagus, he says: “Okay. Been there/done that. If I don’t keep looking upon all these idols, maybe I won’t keep getting so irritated. Maybe I can get around to writing some of those epistles that have been kicking around in the back of my head.”

17 hours ago, xero said:

But if no one knows what we're thinking and reading and we have no parity with others with whom we share common beliefs we could easily become lopsided. We are also engaging in a hierarchical judging of sorts w/regard to our brothers and sisters, rating some more highly than others because these share our viewpoints on these matters.

People have different interests. Most friends only have so much time for reading, and many have only so much interest. If they choose to read Watchtower-only material, why would I have a problem with that? They trust the source. If I recall correctly, @Thinkingmentioned a circuit overseer who acknowledged that spiritual food must be written for the masses, necessitating those with extra reading appetite to do extra study projects. I wrote about some of that here:

https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2019/01/what-witnesses-are-allowed-to-read.html

If you go somewhere that ordinary theocratic reading does not take us—looking into the nitty-gritty of this or that complaint, for example, you have a responsibility to frame things in accord with the brotherhood, unless, like Rulf, you decide your complaints are so stellar and overriding that they justify your leaving the brotherhood, in which case you should do so. But where is he now? Doubtless the “scholars” he consoles himself that he will hang out with are few and far between—most “scholars” have concluded the further they get from God, the better—and his new best friends become some of the smarter adversaries here. Instead, I sort of like JWI, who comes up with some orthodox things, but still says “God’s people obviously need headship, as does everyone else, and the present arrangement is overall doing a good job.”

One long-ago article said, what if you come across some Bible account that seems hard to reconcile, even shocking? Do you do a 60-minutes blow-the-cover-off expose of God? Or do you reflect on how good he’s been to you, that you don’t have all the facts, and if you did, no doubt it would make a difference? Do you do a Jesus, who was overall quite merciful toward his disciples, even when they made blunders or veered into self-importance?

46 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

for Finnish Jehovah’s Witnesses, and there’s no congregational sanctions of any sort if a Witness wants to vote in Finnish elections.

Nor is there anywhere else. 

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

But, if I looked at it closely, I could even tell you whether a specific Witness voted in a previous election.

Uh oh.

So much for the mystery of how Dr Max “Ace” Inhibitor landed that vote for County Coroner.

1 hour ago, xero said:

Of course no one really wanted to work these and so because I was a pioneer I decided to do them and I'd make raids on the apartments by working a few buildings and then running out before security got me

I did exactly the same thing. Working a unit at a time. On my final run, with no bad experiences, I called on the manager. “There! See? Nobody cares if we call or not.”

Are you kidding me, she said. ‘The phone’s been ringing off the hook. It’s just that nobody found you in time.”

Apartments were a pain, heightened because some of the friends were LOUD. You’d want to be discreet and there they were as though using a megaphone behind you. I had some good experiences working my apartment territory, though. One fellow said repeatedly (like 4Jah might) that he and Jesus were tight. There was no need for me to come calling because he loved Jesus. He Jesused this and Jesused that. All the while, his wife was in the background urging him to not talk to me. Suddenly he whirled about: “WILL YOU SHUT UP!!” he screamed. And without missing a beat, he resumed for my benefit his lovefest with Jesus.

Exiting the building, a door opened. I had spoken to the man before who had blown me off. Now he was interested. “That’s guys a real yo-yo,” he said, and then invited me in for the nicest conversation.