TrueTomHarley

4 minutes ago, Pudgy said:

What is a JTR?

 

A former mainstay here who abruptly disappeared. We thought he had died, but it turns out he got consumed in troubles of his own making, and I hope he sorts through them. I came to call him (with his approval) “the ol pork chop.”

17 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

It came to mind the moment this person said, I MISS HIM (JTR). A proven apostate. Hmm! What kind of "tremendous" damage can that kind of person be for a congregation? So, who are these so-called, faithful. The same kind? You're zero for 300 hundred.

I couldn’t stand JTR when I first came across him. But as he yielded ever so slightly, and then substantially, before he crashed and burned over other issues, I came to like him.

In some ways, he was like you, only not hypocritical. He seems to have more or less behaved himself in whatever congregation he attended, but did not hide the fact that he had non-conforming views on many things. He acted ugly here, but less so than you. He certainly did not display abuse for individuals, as you routinely do. It is the overall organization he took issue with—bad, maybe, but not hypocritical.

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

“Open Club"........."Closed Club" ........"Open Conscience"........"Closed Conscience".........etc.

I have no problem with a closed club. If you started one for people of your persuasion and I found myself barred from it, I would not grumble. I probably would not find myself barred from it, because even if I was, I would not apply for entrance in the first place. I accept that people have different views. Speaking of myself in the third person in several of my excellent books, lauded by all but Cesar, who thinks they are garbage and thereby provides the highest recommendation possible, I end with an invitation to email, but also the caveat: “He’ll try to get back but cannot guarantee. Sometimes people disagree. He can live with that.”

I posted something on the Memorial recently and I put it in the closed club. I thought of putting it here, but in the end did not because I did not want certain ones peeing all over it. I put it on my own site as well, where I do not allow much peeing. It is too bad in a way not to post it here, because the post is all about things raised here—how anointed know they are anointed, who partakes, how they and those not anointed conduct themselves, and so forth. It is here:

https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2021/03/object-lessons-at-the-memorial-talk.html

There is a place for closed clubs. Everyone regards him or herself as a font of wisdom but after a while it gets old. When people choose a position, they often feel they do not want it relentlessly challenged by those who merely recycle the old arguments they have made countless times before. I hang out here far more than JWTalk because the mods there will not permit the free-ranging brawls that go on here. I have no problem that they do not. Their mission statement is clearly stated from the get-go. It is to provide a friendly supportive place where bros can chit-chat with the worldwide brotherhood.

They have several hoops one must leap through for admittance. It is possible to fool them short term, but probably not long, unless one says nothing. When I applied, they recognized me straight-off on account of the Sheepandgoats blog. They waived all requirements and I entered immediately as a platinum member (or whatever the designation was). I told them not to do it—let me work through the ranks like everyone else. But they held fast. (Practically speaking, I’m not sure what difference it makes. It may be that they allow a newbie to comment at first, but not post.)

There are quite a few mods and they are from all over the world. I think I have tested the patience of some of the more straight-arrow ones, but my status yet remains. It is not hard. It is the same as what I say about the brothers operating in any country. They find out what the king’s ground rules are, and then they follow them. Seldom is there a problem. You don’t have to make an issue over everything. If you don’t like something, leave.

1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

Most definitely, your proof of how full of themselves you people are.

Odd that you should say it. 

Just two days ago I wrote a lengthy letter to someone I much respect. Today I wrote again with but a single paragraph:

it’s always good to sit on any long letter for a day or so before sending it. I didn’t do it with the lengthy one I unleashed upon you. I should have. Sorry. I think I came across as a little too full of myself. It’s mostly born of an inner frustration that I’m doing something that I really think is useful and must carry on as though I am practicing a secret sin. Even so, it was an awfully long letter to subject anyone to.

I did not add (but would have had I thought of it) that I spent 16 years raising a son who was thought of highly enough to be assisting behind the literature counter, then lost him to “the world” because a certain Cesar-like brother grabbed hold of him, like a dog shaking a rat, over a relatively petty issue that probably would have blown over all by itself, and even if it hadn’t wasn’t that big of a deal to begin with, would not let go of it, created a great and unrelenting fuss, and after almost a year of this, the boy said, “I’m outta here.” (no relation to @Outta Here)

This is a public forum where participants give as good as they get, a rough-and-tumble place where a Cesar does no damage, because the entire forum is damage-on-display. Forget the “apostate warning” Cesar craves; what the forum ought to be subtitled is “Damages-R-Us.”

But you get a brother like Cesar (assuming that he really is one) out in an actual congregation, and they can do tremendous damage. Many faithful ones have alluded to this. @Thinkingis the most recent one who comes to mind.

Incidentally, tell @JW Insiderthat I have come across a way or rooting out errors. I crowdsurf them among FB friends, promising public attaboys to anyone who finds one. I do the best I can before release, but regard the release as a beta version until the mixed crowd and I get the bugs out, then it is on to glory and riches and “making a great name for myself.” I may even put a price on the book

36 minutes ago, xero said:

I also need a list of organizational "conversation stoppers" and ways to defuse these obstacles.

I rather like this goal.

37 minutes ago, xero said:

My arguments need to be short, scriptural and the illustrations, emotionally evocative.

I like this one, too. Sometimes the malcontents send me a light-years long diatribe. Do they expect me to reply to every sentence? Do they imagine I have nothing whatsoever to do with my time? It’s amazing how full of themselves people can be. 

I pick out one point and respond to it, assuming I respond to anything at all.

3 hours ago, César Chávez said:

True Witnesses come here thinking this is a JW friendly site. IT'S NOT!!

As far as I know, there is only one participatory JW friendly site of any consequence. Of course, it is also not endorsed by the earthly organization, but it has about 12 moderators who run a pretty tight ship as to tamping down controversy. They know those who visit there want a ‘safe’ and harangue-free area, and they feel a responsibility to make it that way.

I wonder if you wouldn’t run into trouble there.

6 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

You hear that, you old library hen?

The point is, @César Chávez, why would anyone think it in the first place. It is well-known JW HQ does not endorse any site.

34 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

I's prefer to see a disclosure in the heading stating this website or forum is in no way affiliated with the Watchtower or JWorg, and the opinions given here are NOT representative of the Watchtower, nor it's core values.

You hear that, you old library hen?

21 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

No. 

Is JWI a Watchtower lawyer?

No. But maybe he should be.

”Oh, for crying out loud! Will this closing argument never end? Give him whatever he wants! I hope to see my wife and kids again this side of Biden’s term!”

5 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Now, I can tell people NOT to read your garbage books. There's NO Christianity in you.

Unfortunately, Cesar, this is the best thing you could say to spur sales of them. It is if you enthusiastically recommended them, that might give people pause for thought.

You do not see yourself as anyone else here does. And if you carry on in your real life as you do here, that thought will be equally true in the greater world of humanity, be people in the faith or not.

If you actually are in the faith, something that I doubt, then you are an unhappy, deeply troubled individual here indulging in a double-life. Were you well-adjusted, sound and joyful in the faith, then you would have no need of such a kick-ass outlet as coming here,, where you shed any semblance of Christianity, insulting one and all.

It is almost like the double life kid who goes through all the motions in the truth, impresses everyone with his zeal and love, but by night flails away at super-violent video games.

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Any thought ? 

Yes. Do a little research on 1 Corinthians 6:9-12 and you will see two categories in the list of those who will not inherit the kingdom, “men kept for unnatural purposes,” and “men who lie with men.” The first has particular reference to a young man or boy specifically kept for sexual purposes. The is was extremely common in the ancient world, in nearly all places except among the Jews.

This is the expression, “men kept for unnatural purposes,” that would fit pedophelia. The first, “men who lie with men,” is plain, regular, homosexuality. As you suspected, there is a movement among those who practice the gay life to “interpret away” verses that condemn their actions. I think what you son has come across are such efforts.

The Hebrew Scriptures also cover both, not just one, pedophilia and homosexuality.

Leviticus 18:22 is homosexuality: “And you must not lie down with a male the same as you lie down with a woman. It is a detestable thing.”

Leviticus 18:10: pedophllia: “As for the nakedness of the daughter of your son or the daughter of your daughter, you must not lay bare their nakedness, because they are your nakedness.”

Two separate things. They are not the same.

6 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Then your stupidity understood it!! I didn't want it to read, so abusive. 

you have all the propriety of the hangman who is offended by the word s**t

9 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Leaders of a Jehovah's Witnesses church '

You dodo, you are repeating an incendiary media headline. 

We can depend upon it to be stated as inflammatory as they know how, for that is how the press operates when they get ahold of something juicy. 

Nonetheless, just for the sake of argument, let us assume that everything was exactly as stated.

Do you know how many “hanging judges” were in the American West, with their counterparts even today? Do you know how many judges are incompetent even now? Do you know how many trial verdicts are reversed upon appeal because the judge did something wrong?

Any time or any place you put humans in the mix you will get errors, even shocking ones. Maybe that is the case here. In any assemblage of several million people, you will find many examples of anything.

Pray to God for his direct handling of your issues and he will say he has underlings to handle your problem. Complain to him that the underlings are imperfect and he will observe that you are no great shakes yourself. 

10 hours ago, César Chávez said:

you do have a bunch of believers here that do accept the kind of dodo you dish out.

Doodoo. The word is doodoo.

Dodo is the bird name that I have reserved for 4Jah,

7 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

You see I can laugh at myself

Well, I should hope so, for there is certainly plenty to laugh about.

For example, you chuckled your way through this one: “Ever wonder from where the reports came that early Christians went in for cannibalism?”

9 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

That's a good one. Jesus was obviously testing them because it does sound off putting.

Yeah, it does. Check with JWI, because you won’t know it yourself, and he will confirm that the early Christians were accused of cannibalism; it was one of the unhinged charges made against the faith, and resulting persecution caused much suffering, even loss of life. That statement of Jesus was used to justify the preposterous accusation.

That something that makes you roll with laughter, too?

7 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

But please give me 5 examples of this 'first century' slackness, where the 'followers' cut their leaders some slack. 

Ever wonder from where the reports came that early Christians went in for cannibalism? 

“He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him. ...

Therefore many of his disciples, when they heard this, said: “This speech is shocking; who can listen to it?”  (From John 6)

Jesus faithful disciples cut him slack for that statement.. 

And that is with a perfect man. Don’t get me going with the imperfect ones, which I will not assemble for you, because you will, as usual, find them “all so funny.”

3 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Let's see if I can make it clear for dimwits

Well, this point you have made clear any number of times.

14 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

would appear that 'the faith' of JWs is in the things seen, not unseen. Those things seen being the GB and the massive amount of real estate that the W/t own. 

Every so often I should probably repeat the following, though none of it sinks in:

It is part of the package. If God is worth his salt, he will provide adequate human leadership. He will not leave his worshipers rudderless, each prey to whatever worldly trends are cresting in their particular time and area. He will provide adequate shepherding. Go to the world of churches if you want rudderless, if you are content with each one simply building his own personal relationship with God, and enjoy whatever “unity” you find there.

Jehovah’s people will cut their shepherds some slack, just as was necessary in the first century, because they are human. But they also recognize that these ones will be relentlessly attacked simply for the Christian shepherding work that they do.

“It used to be that being crazy meant something. Nowadays, everyone is crazy” - Charles Manson

2 hours ago, Anna said:

The funny thing is I actually have no idea what CC is talking about.

It’s usually true with me too

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

One that can be read by 'posh' cell phones. 

There is scarcely anyone on the planet that does not have one of these posh phones these day.

9 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Anna and JWI started this fight not me.

Well—they are horrible scrappers, those two.

2 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Unfortunately, everyone here, being misled by sloppy bible teaching is. To bad, you people can't accept it.

What do you mean he was misled by sloppy bible teaching? He belonged to a congregation and he deliberately left it. Was there no one there who knew accurate bible teaching? Is there anyone on the planet who does besides you?

2 hours ago, César Chávez said:

For example, a simple solution to Johns argument would have been, two words, "indirectly" and "directly".

You who live to argue, this has nothing to do with argument. It is almost entirely a matter of heart.

2 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Seriously, if you people go door to door, no wonder people have a hard time believing.

It’s not our fault, you donkey. We try to work with you door to door because we know that you understand the things that we do not. But you are never available. You are always here arguing, not only with those who hate the faith, but with those who love it.

5 hours ago, César Chávez said:

I guess, people here need to STOP listening to TTH,

Well, it is not exactly as though 4Jah is hanging on my every word.

1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

What if, only the truly Anointed ones, should have had God's words. ....I do wonder exactly who God wants to have access to His written words. 

Witness. Good idea. Keep them all stockpiled in her garage. She will know who is deserving.