TrueTomHarley

34 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Now I do not know if this pure Organisation will be a restored / cleansed JW Org (maybe with a change of name)

Yes. Word is out that we can expect a TA.org soon.

it will be a rebranding to keep up with the times. Like

MailChimp:

or

Starbucks:

or

IHOP:

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

When he got to the first stop sign on a downslope, a wave of water came crashing towards the front of the bus. Good times!

There were some models—not one that I ever drove, they were being phased out—that if all the high school kids crammed in the back of the bus, they could lift the front wheels.

I learned the truth during my senior year of college. After graduation, I determined to pioneer. Unlike some more mature youngsters, I never knew what I was doing there anyway. I had been (this for Srecko’s sake) “manipulated” to be there. If your grades were not in the toilet, there is no way the high school would tolerate your not going to college unless you had strong reason not to go, and I didn’t. I took the path of least resistance. I used my time poorly there. When I returned for some specific course work 40 years later I had the time of my life—goals make all the difference.

As I get older, I appreciate what this must have meant for my parents. When your child graduates from college, you want some “bragging rights.” It’s not why you sent him there, but it is part of the anticipated package. What did my parents get? A kid who drove a school bus and rang the doorbells of their neighbors to tell them about this weird religion. All the more “tragic” because I went to school mostly on their dime. It was quite doable back then, even if not so today.

My dad did not have any problem with it. Raised on a farm, he was not impressed with the pretensions of men. “You raise you kids and after that their life is for them to live,” he would say. Accordingly I am pretty much like that today with my own kids, one of whom remained with the faith and one of who did not.

But my mom had a tougher time with it. It was all the more so when one of her contemporaries—a mom of one of my classmates—urged her early on to “get him out of there!” But in time some of her friends would invite me in to hear me out. One of them studied for a time. They all sent back good reports to reassure her that whatever I was doing I was well-spoken about it and it was doing me no harm. I wasn’t “tuning in, turning on, and dropping out.”

1 hour ago, xero said:

I know Jehovah has a place for people like Keith.

Got it. Who can say? People gots to be cut slack.

My newfound nemesis says to me, “Did I ever say I was perfect?”

“Well, no,” I hang my head in shame.

“Alright, then!” he crows and the moment I turn my back he toasts it with a flamethrower.

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

You are the very first other Witness I know who also drove a school bus while pioneering.

It was a perfect job for a pioneer. I actually lived in a basement apt at the Kingdom Hall then. I would arise in the AM, drive about 1/4 mile to the bus barns, and be back in time for the text. 4 hours in the field and I was back for the afternoon runs.

I know several who do it now. In some areas, the pay is quite good for a part-time job. It is that way where I live.

And yes, even though living at the Kingdom Hall, I would still sometimes be late for meetings.

13 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

then I will turn myself in for not being nice to apostates.

Everyone is one to you. You must be a terror in your Kingdom Hall, assuming you really go to one.

33 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

this is the key. During a study with someone I don't think it's my place to tell him where I might think differently

When I pioneered years ago as an unmarried 20-something, I drove a school bus to support myself.

“You enjoy your job, don’t you?” said my mentor in another congregation. “I haven’t said so,” I replied.

”No, but you never said you didn’t,” was his reply.

12 minutes ago, xero said:

So a lot of the moaning I here sounds like 1st world problems. All that disappears when you have "tight shoes" - whatever that physical pain/psychological pain currently is.

A relative of mine is a need-greater in a developing country, one of those where houses may well be on stilts due to the downpours.

People there fear COVID, she says, but they fear starvation more. They are setting traps to catch rats. They are fishing in sewers for eels. Women are selling themselves into prostitution, doubly risky for them because they know they will be jailed if caught.

Do you mean these kind of problems, while we flail away at a antitype that blew up in our faces?

53 minutes ago, xero said:

Now you'd be hard pressed to find a Catholic apostate, or a Lutheran apostate....

What would they apostasize from?

Not only to the many verses dealing with apostasy reveal the nature of apostates. They also reveal the nature of the Christian congregation.

16 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Sometimes I have found that it is easier to understand an exchange of ideas more objectively by imagining the exchange of ideas in a different context outside the forum, or by paraphrasing the meaning instead of the exact words, and even removing (or mentally swapping) the names of persons involved in an exchange.

This is not a bad idea. I could benefit from it (but probably won’t)

I’m not entirely sure the relevance, but I used to love this takeoff on the old Certs ad:

”Certs is a breath mint”

Certs is a taste mint”

”a breath mint.”

”a taste mint.”

“Breath”

”TASTE!!!”

“Oh, yeah??!!!”

“YEAH!! WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO ABOUT IT??!!!!!”

1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

Now lets get this obtuse post back on track, shall we!

No, I think we found a new track to explore.

Nobody is more unkind here than you. There may be some as unkind, but you are in the top tier. Plus, the fact that you claim to represent Jehovah’s organization, and they don’t, makes your unkindness by far the worst. I mean, nobody expects 4Jah or Witness to be nice..You are every bit as insulting as Alan, and far worse, because he represents the atheists and you don’t.

Nobody picks fights with every single person here, finding no difference between friend and foe. They are all foes to you.

Nobody excoriates brothers more than you for straying in even the tiniest degree from some aspect of counsel, as though every syllable was unyielding iron. And yet, nobody is a more blatant example than you for ignoring such counsel with regard to engaging apostates. Everyone else makes some acknowledgment of why they overstep that “line.” Only you oversteps it while still claiming to represent to the nth degree those who obey counsel.

It is very hard to believe that you are a Witness. Can you really be one? Possibly you are one of the “sons of thunder” who wanted to call fire and sulphur from heaven to avenge a slight to the Lord. But the Lord rebuked them for this. Accordingly, you too ought to be rebuked frequently so that if possible “you may be healthy in the faith.”—assuming you are actually there.

1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

She disrespected me. Why aren't you trying to "rebuke" her?

What did Jesus do when he was “disrespected?”

1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

The one that is "wrong" here is you and her.

How insistent was Jesus on proving himself right?

1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

Keep your obtuse comments to yourself! The one that should be ashamed is you, ex-elder!

Even were I to take this as an insult, which appears the way you intend it, how many times did Jesus say to Peter (after 3 times denying him) “The one that should be ashamed is you, ex-disciple!”

I mean really, CC. If you want people to believe that you are a Witness, you should act like one.

On 2/23/2021 at 2:13 PM, JW Insider said:

In any case, they all must think there is something very special about the WTS so that their energy goes against it instead of being equally shared among the problems of Mormons, Catholics, Scientologists, etc. 

Yes. This is another “booby prize” at first glance that turns out to be top prize at second..It is an indication that JWs have the truth: We have by far the best apostates.

No NT writer does not deal with the subject of apostasy. Two chapters of the Bible are devoted to it entirely. Unless the world has been won over by Christ (we all know the answer to that one) then the reality then should be the reality today. And nobody has more vociferous “apostates” than ours. We should be proud of them, for through them is our validation.

59 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

I sleep with a smile of Jesus in my face

You do NOT sleep with a smile of Jesus in your face. If you did, your manner of communication, respect, and kindness would align with his.

At the drop of a pin, you pick fights and take offense. Jesus didn’t do this. Picking on poor @Araunaof the fading eyes—shame, shame!

Xero: I enjoyed this. It brought back memories. Your experience is my experience, not the specifics, but the general outline.

5 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I loved studying ... the "Is the Bible Really the Word of God?" book with university students.

This is a specific that is the same. To this day, that book is my favorite, dated though it must be by now..

I had two college chums, and I gave the book to both of them. I thought one would love it and one would hate it. I was right!

I was also wrong. The one I thought would like it hated it. The one I thought would hate it liked it.

On 2/23/2021 at 2:13 PM, JW Insider said:

I don't have the impression that anyone at WTS HQ reads this site. But, who knows?

hehehe :)))))))

2 hours ago, César Chávez said:

I said it before, and I will remind everyone here again. NONE of you people here are my spiritual brothers. Like I told JWinsider, I don't need his up votes nor yours.

I request that all upvotes that might otherwise go to CC, who disdains them, be bestowed upon me instead. I need all I can get to counter the deluge of downvotes from 4Jah.

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

if you think you can get through to these people - forget it. ...I no longer deem it important to read through all the garbage - especially since my eyes are bad. 

Never could there be a worse waste of already strained eyes.

35 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Please explain what I did wrong. 

Better people than you have tried to figure this out. I wouldn’t lose sleep over it. I’m not sure what happened either. Last I checked he was upvoting you routinely.

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

yes - they call you for your opinion and people do not realize it is a political poll.

Telemarketers will eat you alive in my neck of the woods. I never answer a call from an unrecognized number so am spared this sort of nonsense. They can leave messages.

It probably has interfered with my participation in phone witnessing. When someone answers the phone, I think “What! Are you crazy?!”

43 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2021/0217/Biden-Warnock-and-the-resurgence-of-the-liberal-Christian

I was interested in this article as the JW teaching is that there will be a complete removal / banning of religion earthwide.

 

When Mat Schmalz was coming of age in western Massachusetts decades ago, he took a year to volunteer for a Roman Catholic order in rural Oklahoma, helping to minister to some of the region’s poorer and more isolated communities.

It was the first time he spent a significant amount of time away from the rhythms of his Catholic upbringing, and at first he felt a bit unmoored. But then it almost came as a surprise as he grew particularly close to a family of Jehovah’s Witnesses, or when he started forming deep friendships with evangelical Protestants, including those from charismatic and Pentecostal traditions. 

“I mean, in one sense it was liberating,” says Mr. Schmalz, now a professor of religious studies at College of the Holy Cross in Worcester, Massachusetts, which he calls “the heart of the Catholic left.” 

.................................

“It does seem to me that there has been this resurgence of people who interpret their Christian beliefs as a call to action on behalf of the most vulnerable,” says Margaret McGuinness, professor of religion and theology at La Salle University in Philadelphia. “And then, all of a sudden, here comes President Joe Biden, who wears his Catholic faith on his sleeve – and I mean that in a good way, in a way that a lot of people are noticing.”

Only the second Roman Catholic to hold the nation’s highest office, President Biden has been one of the most pious and faithfully observant Christians in decades, many observers say, peppering his speeches with more than the kind of general religious references politicians often make. He’s quoted theologians such as St. Augustine and St. Francis of Assisi, and Catholic hymns like “On Eagle’s Wings,” a favorite among many liberal Catholics.

.......................................

Over the past few years, however, a number of high-profile Democrats – including current New Jersey Sen. Cory Booker; Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg; and Missouri Congresswoman Cori Bush, a pastor from St. Louis – have made their faith a centerpiece of their liberal policy positions as churches on the left become more politically active.  

But the historic election of the Rev. Raphael Warnock to the U.S. Senate in January only underscores how much Black Protestants have taken the lead in reviving the liberal traditions of Christianity. As the first African American senator from Georgia, Senator Warnock has maintained his role as pastor of Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta, the former congregation of Martin Luther King Jr.

This is a very long article so only partly uploaded here, but my point was that if all religion is going to be removed, then it does not look to be happening yet. This article mixes religion with politics of course, but the religious side still seems 'strong'. 

This post is almost as narrow as you. Formatting counts, you know.

1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

I thought the article was funny though, but i don't believe those figures. 

 

“Still, since it takes a swipe at people I don’t like, I’ll run it as top headline! Who cares if its true?”

17 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Please, go to JWTV and 2020 Annual Meeting with Kenneth Cooke and A. Morris with their (silly) confirmation/answer they made about, who dies and who not dies at Armageddon.  

Please re-read my remark:

”If things are as JWs say they are, then they are providing a nice friendly heads-up and ought to be thanked on that account. 

If they are not as JWs say they are, then no harm is done to anyone. JWs are left with egg on their face and they are willing to take that risk.

Either way it is not something to get all histrionic about.”

43 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

It's usually apostates or haters, or as tom says, vilians. 

“Villains” I like for its Old West flavor. Otherwise I like ‘malcontents’ or ‘detractors.’ ‘Complainers.’ also works. I shy away from ‘apostates’ or ‘haters.’ I haven’t sworn them off completely. But I use them sparingly, largely for the reason you say:

46 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

And Almighty God has made you to judge such importent matters ? 

5 hours ago, Anna said:

Whenever I get a pang of conscience, I think; it's ok, Tom's on here! 😂🥳🤪💃

Uh oh. Whenever I get a pang of conscience, I think; it’s ok, Anna’s on here.

Maybe both of use can say, “It’s ok, Cesar’s here.”

11 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Also, WTJWorg says how people who think and believe and accept all sorts of "truths" (like her), but not WTJWorg "truths" will dye in Armageddon.

Okay, I will take your remark more seriously this time, but it’s hard because it is just too silly.

If things are as JWs say they are, then they are providing a nice friendly heads-up and ought to be thanked on that account. 

If they are not as JWs say they are, then no harm is done to anyone. JWs are left with egg on their face and they are willing to take that risk.

Either way it is not something to get all histrionic about.

And yes, I did contact HF to show her my write-up of her.. Doubtless when she sees it she will be speachless, just like the Queen of Sheba when Solomon showed her his digs.

And if she’s not she’s not.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Also, WTJWorg says how people who think and believe and accept all sorts of "truths" (like her), but not WTJWorg "truths" will dye in Armageddon.

This is an apostate lie.

Things will be perfect in the new system. Even clothes will be just in the color you want them to be. There will be no need to dye.

2 hours ago, xero said:

One thing I've learned from decades of pioneering is that I've changed very few people's minds by arguing with them, but I have changed myself from wearing myself out in the attempt.

Exactly. People almost never change. In all the time I have been here, I have seen only one possibly do that, after which he participated no more. But he had other things going on as well that may have been more significant.

Just so you know, I stay here & have become one of the key players, because I fancy myself a writer. I’ve said before, but not lately, that a writer needs more than a muse. He needs a villain. Here there are villains galore. 

In most cases I’ve probed a little at first to see how the “villains” came to be as they are. I’m under no illusion of changing anyone, and what I do not do, because I think it is wrong, is discuss spiritual things with them as I would with persons in good standing with Jehovah and his earthly organization—in other words, my attempt at abiding by counsel to leave blind guides be.

It is in the eye of the beholder. Maybe some people do think I chat happily away with them.  I don’t frequent anywhere else but here. I do worry about setting a bad example.