TrueTomHarley

You don’t see a contradiction between your two statements above? Did it pain you to say ‘alleged?’ I think you are confusing justice with the French Revolution, where a denouncement in itself was enough to send one to the guillotine. Until we see a conviction, we cannot assume that there were any.

Yes. Looking back on the thread, I see how easy the mistake was to make. Were the misunderstanding valid, you would be absolutely right to rebuke me. I would have done the same. I have at times. People don’t have time to read all this in depth. They see a seeming injustice and they jump on it. I do not always speak plainly, and I do sometimes speak too much. I would not say that it is only the brotherhood where such things can be sorted out—with both ready to make amends, both ready to walk things back, both ready to apologize without worry about saving face. But I can think of many settings in which such a misunderstanding would not be readily sorted out, and instead would serve as a wedge to trigger further arguments. For all the greater world speaks of “coming together,” they tend not to do it very often.

If that’s was Tom was saying or wanted to say, he would have said it.

I would not have posted the arrest report, and I would not have posted it exactly for the reason that @Thinkingsays. Thanks to @Annafor clearing that up— it was another who posted it, and that is the person I referred to as “not exactly someone who loves Jehovah.” As for JTR, I think it is pretty clear that he did, screwy though he was in many ways. Is it in anyone’s vital interest to know what Ann posted? Is anyone here endangered by not knowing? I would not have posted it. And, the other person called a “sex beast” from another thread—the one who was convicted for touching offense, not just porn, some decades past and who had never repeated them, the one whom the judge said that his past had finally caught up with him and that he had no choice but to send him to prison, as though if he had a choice, he might choose a less harsh punishment—that one would appear to give the lie to the mantra that a person cannot change. He can. He evidently did. Long ago. So you would almost think more attention would be paid to the wholesome teachings and moral atmosphere that prevailed so as to mold him into a different person.

Yes it probably was that way. Ah. Now, things make more sense. Thanks for that bit of light.

“What we have here is a failure to communicate,” said Cool Hand Luke, before they shot him dead. You don’t want to do that. What I meant is that there are many platforms that do not appear to recognize the applicability of Proverbs 11:13: “a slanderer goes about revealing confidential talk,But the trustworthy person keeps a confidence,” but instead they carry on as though confidential talk should be revealed to all. It is not something I have any control over—other than whether I should participate on this site or not, and I’ve explained many times why I do. No, but you can read her collective comments, and certain things become pretty clear. By doing that, it is as though you have super powers. Look, I was chastened by your remark. “Point well made,” I said. What more do you want? No one else backed down any. Nor was I the one to fan the flames in the first place.

Crazy goings-on here. I am getting so many like that my system crashed. You probably don’t see it, though. I am even getting liked from 4J. He has never done anything other than laugh before. Is this what you mean. Ad nauseum the claim was made that all the studies showed how safe they were. One dogged fellow kept after them—he had to sue to do it—and the facts revealed was that there had been no studies at all. It is a little more detained than that, but that is the gist of it. https://www.icandecide.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/ICAN-VS-CDC-LAWSUIT-PR.pdf It is also impossible to sue vaccine-makers. They are protected from lawsuit, and a separate ‘vaccine court’ (funded by taxpayers) handles claim of vaccine injury—which fights every claim tooth and nail. In this day when lawyers can and do sue everyone under the sun for everything, they CANNOT sue vaccine makers. Does anyone think automobiles would be as safe as they are today if they were immune from lawsuit? We would still be driving Pintos, that burst into flame when hit from the rear, or Corvairs, that flip over if you’ve gotten the tire pressure wrong.

Nobody ever thinks about such things on social media. The actual news media has long since set the example of relaying accusation as though it were conviction. Nobody ever thinks of such things. Until it happens to them. Then they think of it.

It wasn’t exactly a lover of Jehovah who did this, and for better or for worse, the mission statement of this website is (apologies to the Washington Post) “Theocracy Dies in Darkness.” Point well made.

A fine new ally of @The Librarian. Who would have guessed? Like two peas in a pod, they are.

No offense, but isn’t this a first for you? I think Anna raises a good point—if it is someone you know, and thus can see as more than one-dimensional, it makes a difference. Someone else, you posted headlines of being a “sex beast,” despite the touching offense (more serious than this case) being decades in the past and never repeated. “One would think that Epstein and Maxwell would have taught that source what a “sex beast” was,” I mentioned, and you disagreed. People are many-faceted. They are not just one thing. If it is judged that JTR has done wrong, there will be a price to pay. Hopefully thereafter he will get his life back on track. I wish him well in that regard. This is a ridiculous statement. All it means is that there is sometimes not enough evidence upon which to take action. Why don’t you suspend evidence altogether? If anyone is accused of anything, off to jail they go. It is all irrelevant anyway. There is no reproach in reporting an abuser to police that he has not already brought upon himself—this was made absolutely clear in that WT of last year, studied by the whole congregation. Thus, regardless of what the congregation does, secular authorities can investigate and possibly punish with their own enhanced methods—examining hard drives, for instance. https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2019/02/the-reproach-of-child-sexual-abuse-falls-on-the-abu.html The problem of a “culture of insularity” has been solved. If anyone thinks an abuser has pulled the wool over the eyes of elders, there is no stigma in going to outside authorities, as that study article makes clear.

Nobody (except one) worked harder to point the finger at others. What are we to make of that?

I haven’t tried to rank them. If I did, I don’t think you would be in first place. I do take it seriously. I just dial it back a notch or two. If it is any consolation, I dial JWI’s stuff 2 notches or 3. You don’t think I buy all his stuff, do you? It is but food for thought—sort of like that verse that says you think you know it all after hearing the first witness, and then the other fellow comes along. I don’t know why he goes on and on the way he does—to me, all one need do is see how governments are treating our brothers and extrapolate from there—still, this site is a lab for me. I think it is a lab for you. I think it is a lab for him. As Voltaire said, the most sure way to be dull is to reveal everything—I don’t have to know where everyone is coming from. I am on a Voltaire kick now. My Great Courses regimen has gone from Bart E to Henry VIII, and now it is on Voltaire. I listen to the CDs while walking the dog, who doesn’t listen himself, and they permit me to be a seed-picker, like they said of Paul at Acts 17:18, who picks up a seed here and poops it out there. I give the appearance of being smart, having something to say on everything, yet if one pressed you or JWI on China, both of you could expand indefinitely. If one presses me, a seed-picker, I change the subject to Gilligan’s Island. Seed-pickers frequently operate on the very edge of their knowledge, but nobody knows that but they. All that is lacking—as I note from watching Zoom commentators on TV—and which I will soon remedy—is to truck in a ton of books from the Goodwill, and make a podcast in which I can barely be seen for their sheer number. “Whoa! Look at all those books!” people will say, “he must be smart!” Mission accomplished. Voltaire is a name that I’ve long known of but relatively little about. Now I know a little more, and I find, so my surprise, that some of the things I do, he also did. My head, which was already dangerously large, as Cesar pointed out, now gets so big as to take up all the space in the Librarian’s library. As to at least make a pretense of staying on topic, the daughter of one of my friends served as a missionary in China, along with her husband. Several years ago he told me that the Chinese secret police had infiltrated our congregations there in no time at all, but they also reported to their superiors that there was nothing to worry about, since our people had no interest whatsoever in changing politics. It is a story a little bit at odds with reports coming out of that land now. Maybe it was naïveté to begin with—some starry-eyed brother misreading reality—we do things like that. At any rate, based upon that input, I expressed similar naïveté in Tom Irregardless that I am almost embarrassed to own now. Still, no harm done, I think. It never hurts to give the other guy the benefit of the doubt, even if sometimes it is hurled back in your face. I fall in between you and JWI as regards looking at signs, probably a bit closer to your way. Angels are desiring to peer into these things. It is not for me to tell them to straighten up and get back to work. But the friends can get pretty worked up over things that may turn out here-today, gone-tomorrow. Someone was all excited the other day about Trump brokering a new deal in the mid-east. Does that herald the cry of peace and security? they wondered what I thought. I don’t get worked up over such things. The media has so firmly suppressed the story, for fear of making Trump look good, that few here know much about it, anyway. I try to seek first the kingdom and his righteousness, follow counsel I have found trustworthy, and figure that matters of timing will unfold as they will.

Did I read the report wrong? Bond has been posted. Lock-up was “pre-trial.” I don’t believe he has been.

Everyone here is predictable. Everyone here is fond of their opinions. That doesn’t mean they regard themselves too highly.

You did. You asked real politely and I’m a little ashamed of myself for being so curt. On the other hand, you reached exactly the same conclusion you would have had I been more cooperative, so I don’t know what you have to complain about. It is possible to be too transparent, you know.

I’m not going to clarify anything just so whatever clarification I give you will declare wrong, as you do with JWI. Let the context of the remark itself be your “clarification.”

Did he really say that? One time I called him out on how it is not much of a “last days” if it began in 33 and he said that as far as he was concerned, Armageddon might come in the next 5 minutes. I may be naive and inclined to cut people too much slack—those interminably long threads on chronology I either skim for the most part or even pass over entirely—but for me it is enough to say the present leadership is doing an overall good job and that leadership is essential in any project—and this he does repeatedly. People don’t have to come together on every particular, nice though that might be. As long he is not doing a Witness or a Rolf (the GB is nuts!—I am better) I can live with it. If if eases Caser’s mind any (and even 4Jah), I have never seen such an in-depth discussion of international history, economics, and political maneuvering as here between JWI and yourself. Very very few brothers would have an interest or be capable of launching a similar thread. So it is not necessary for 4Jah or Cesar to say: “Well well well—it looks like JWs are taking an interest in “worldly politics.” Two of them are, and two are not very many, easily accommodated in the body of limbs that all work together. Moreover, Cesar consistently upvotes one and downvotes the other—yet they both are equally political, so that if you moved these past few comments to a separate thread, he might not follow, since for some reason I cannot quite get my head around, there is much bad blood between he and a certain “ex-Bethelite.” As to comments making either a bad impression or, on the other hand, beIng innocuous, I think that could be said of both participants or neither. When I wrote ‘Dear Mr P—JWs Write Russia’ I determined NOT to present the northern king through the eyes of the southern, for if I did that, maybe some day the northern king would read it and get mad. For all I know, JWI’s trying to appreciate the viewpoint of the northern guy will make a better impression on him, and thus ease the suffering of our brothers in his domain, more so than does reaffirming the Western viewpoint of the “evil empire.” There is barely a drama anywhere in which the bad guys say, “We are the bad guys.” All of them are good guys. All of them have lofty goals. All of them have villainous implementations. All of them are subject to finger-pointing from the other side. Neutral though JWs strive to be, there was an occurrence or two of the phrase “iron curtain” in the 50s, and Emily Baran notes that it caused some grumbling among the Soviets, who didn’t view it as an iron curtain at all, but a “protective wall.” Far more likely, I think, nobody reads this thread—I note that my invitation to respond in any way, with either an upvote or downvote, has attracted only two hits. Neither Putin nor Trump nor Xi is furiously hitting the upvote or downvote button like rats in a Skinner box, nor are any of the brothers. Not to worry should someone appear to be going off-script. I don’t think anyone is. JTR, for all his orneriness, had some good lines. One of them was: “that which is not expressly permitted is forbidden.” I rebuked him for it each time, because it is not so. But then along comes someone to suggest by what they would deny others that it is all so. In my heart of hearts, I sometimes wish that brothers were as “well-rounded” with their heads as they are with their hands. It is not a big deal—“it is what it is” Trump recently said about something else, and how are you going to respond to that? “It isn’t what it is?” Get your head around how things “is”—I accept that. The greater world is the source of rebellion against God, misleading and being misled by you-know-who, so it is not the GB’s place to encourage ones to go out there for “balance.” They are concerned will preserving life. It is as it should be. They don’t encourage ones to take in-depth looks at how the kings speak for themselves. But that is not to say that they do not recognize that Witnesses have diverse interests.

Even were there something objectionable about it, it only does leave a bad taste to you. There are only two notable participants here, maybe four altogether, not counting yourself. Do you think every other Witness in the world is on the edge of their seat cheering, booing, approving, or disapproving? In fact, let this be a test. Anyone reading this, respond in some way—upvote, downvote, laugh, frown—doesn’t matter—and I don’t want them all to be you. My guess is that people have far more to do with their time so that it is not necessary for you to scold ones who comment on things you find uninteresting.

Prehistoric history is the only type of history that has nothing to do with man’s politics. What—history just happens to people, or is it people who cause it to happen?

Whatever perception that is will be solved when they learn to mind their own business, as we are all advised to do. Just how do they do that? Are we to believe that the Wt expects people to eat Bible sandwiches 24/7? I think not. It is indulging an interest that is going on here, that is all, same as if brothers were working on a souped-up stock car, and trading shop-talk back and forth. There are 8.6 million Witnesses in the world. Whatever two or three of them may being doing does not sink the ship. Besides, for me, a hidden delight is to see that other yo-yo clucking his tongue at those showing an interest in “worldly politics.” I’ve known many brothers to take an interest in history. What are current events other than history in the making? Frankly, I have learned more here on the subject, in a condensed version, from the interplay of two with decidedly different experiences and viewpoints, than I have learned anywhere else. An added benefit to me is that it validates the verse: “let God be found true, even if every man be found a liar.” There is not a position on earth that cannot produce reams of research to validate its view.

God is incompetent is what you are saying—his holy spirit incapable of motivating peope to do his will. Really?

And to think that Utopia, the Thomas More book of the 1500s that coined the word, describes a society in which religion is integral, with the Christian (Catholic) faith preferred as the most reasonable. I didn’t know that about S Africa. Any thoughts on ‘Cry the Beloved Country’—a favorite of mine? I was surprised many years later to discover that the author opposed the ending of apartheid. To a friend from Europe years ago, a more naive me mentioned how now that China has come into money it is playing the part of a great nation—words to that effect. He told me that China has always thought of itself as a great nation, only its greatness was short-circuited for a couple hundred years by Western interference. Sigh...Most of my knowledge of the CIA comes from watching episodes of ‘Chuck.’

You can’t “compare” because you don’t anything about the first topic, and you appear to think it is a sin to find out.. So how are you going to “compare?” You wouldn’t even know that Eastern culture emphasizes group if I hadn’t had said so. Your knowledge of the first topic is zilch, and your knowledge of the second is so tainted by childish petulance and manifest ill-will that it is not far from zilch. So I (and probably I can speak for @Arauna, too) don’t appreciate being summoned before a master of ceremonies who doesn’t know anything. It was a trolling comment when you put it on @JW Insider’s thread, where it had absolutely no place and was just inserted to insult people who hold to your old faith. Rebuked for putting it there, you now put it here? Do it without involving Aruana and me, for your zero knowledge of the “worldly politics” you wish to compare doesn’t increase just because you have entered a different room.

Thank goodness he does not make that claim. And the “true anointed” is a figment of his imagination. From the story: If the judge said “that he had no option but to jail” the man, since his “past has finally caught up with you,” then justice is served. He betrayed a trust, and two kids were scarred. Still, even in CSA, all things are relative. One would think that Epstein & Maxwell would have served to teach the Sentinel what a “sex beast” is.