TrueTomHarley

31 minutes ago, the Sower of Seed said:

The GB are lowly men who are humble before God, searching the Bible for truth and direction, no different than a father who tries to care for his families spiritual needs.  

Sometimes I point out that most have spent decades serving in areas and in ways more humble than of those whom they will later lead. How different from the typical business or political leader, most of whom were born into privilege 

The mission statement of Tom Irregardless and Me appears directly on the title page: “For we have become a theatrical spectacle to the world,” Paul writes to the Corinthians. “That being the case, let’s show them some theater!” is my addition.

It is the greatest show on earth, with actors playing characters good and bad, strutting their stuff, playing out their roles under the big tent. For the longest time I was frustrated that The Watchtower seldom names names—“one politician said” is the vagueness that they continually served up. Then I realized the underlying truth: it is a play that we are watching. You don’t have to name the actors of the play—it can even be a distraction if you do. Name a villain and you create the illusion that holding that villain accountable and making him take responsibility solves the problem. Instead, cart him off to the hoosegow and another actor instantly steps into his shoes—the show goes on with barely a hiccup. 

As the greatest showman on earth—Cecil B. DeMille—and every showman worth his salt before of after well knows, every show needs not just a hero. It needs a villain! The show will tank in popular estimation without a villain—it simply becomes too dull to hold interest. “There’s a great villain in that Bond movie,” people will say as they change channels. Fortunately, in the Greatest Show of Earth, there are villains galore! Who are they? Apostates! “Taste and see that Jehovah is good,” says the verse. They have tasted and seen that he is bad. They are the villains.

Let us assign them a theme song, taking inspiration from Queen’s ‘We Are the Champions:’

We’re the apostates, my friends

And we’ll keep on fighting ‘til the end

We’re the apostates

We’re the apostates

No way we’ll lose this

We hope you choose us

‘Cause we’re the apostates of the world!

There! Isn’t that nice? What! Do you think only the Israelites can come marching to battle singing their song? No! They came marching for battle that day, but they didn’t expect to draw a sword! Singers were out in front! (2 Chronicles 20:17-21) But if they listened very closely, they might have heard the approaching enemy also singing—the Queen song!

See the scoundrels attacking what they always attack—the divine/human interface. Has that not always been the case? It was the case with Moses and the rebellious Israelites. It was the case with the apostles and the malcontents that they strove with all their might to restrain. It was even true with the one who turned on Jesus—Judas. He and God were tight—there we no problems there! But this imposter claiming to be the Messiah! He was not at all what Judas had come to expect. And those yo-yos that he was attracting! “Untaught and ignorant,” Acts 4:13 (KJV) calls their head ones—don’t even go there!

See the apostates diving into the archives! ‘Have Witnesses predicted the end before?’ they mutter their empty thing. ‘Yes! They have—several times! And now they would cover it up!! Well, we won’t let them! Aha ha ha ha!!!!!’

Witnesses want to cover it up? Really? Anybody see Gerrit Losch speaking to hundreds at the Gilead graduation—it being broadcasted to millions? He’s the one noted for digging up stats. He must have referred to a couple dozen predictions for the end—starting with one in the year 400. Christopher Columbus even had one! I hadn’t known that. Isaac Newton as well, who wrote more on religion than he did on mathematics and science combined. That’s one that he didn’t mention, perhaps because the date is yet ahead: 2060.

Our brothers, too, have made some, he said, pointing to two in the 1800’s and a gaggle of them around 1914, so many that I thought he might not even slap me down for when I characterized them as that time you missed the nail with the hammer, and in frustration swung several times more, again missing each time!

Did he soft-peddle 1925 or 1975? He doubled down on them! He did not even use for an out the two perfect ones he had—that the early Christians, too, were obsessed over the end date: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” they asked the resurrected Jesus the moment they laid eyes upon him. What godly person doesn’t want to see the end of this experiment with human rule? But Losch doesn’t even go there.

He’s trying to cover something up, is he? Doesn’t sound that way to me. Who knew that the stiff old German had it in him? When the blaggard throws a punch that he expects to smash in your face, you simply step aside, admit everything, fill in a few details he doesn’t know, and the slob’s own momentum sends him hurling past you head over heals! ‘The Governing Body humbly admits its mistakes and moves on,’ Losch states.

See the apostates reframing obviously good works as bad! Is it actually possible to characterize the Witnesses’ disaster relief mobilizations as evil? They find a way! One vile character says it is one of Satan’s lying signs and wonders, proving he can transform himself into an angel of light! When that doesn’t work, she says, ‘Big deal. Everybody does it!’ When that doesn’t work, she says, ‘Witnesses only help themselves—why don’t they rebuild everybody?’ They don’t because they are in no position to. They are volunteers, for the most part, using vacation time. What they can do is show others how it is done, show them the model that makes it possible for them to do likewise if they wish to or are capable of. 

Then she says—it’s unbelievable! it’s her fourth tactic!—if the homeowner has insurance, they suggest donating the check! Duh! They commence repairs without knowing or caring whether there is insurance. What! She would accept $100K worth of work, and when the friends suggest donation, tell them to take a hike? Are you kidding me? What does she plan on doing with that check, anyway? Doesn’t she come mighty close to suggesting insurance fraud, which she doesn’t notice in her quest to make it hot for her former friends? I can’t imagine it happening very frequently because Witnesses are decent folk who would never dream of so taking advantage of others’ generosity. But she has no problem with it.

See them try to reframe reality—turning the good into evil that Jehovah’s Witnesses police their own as few others do so that they may best ‘practice what they preach.’ See how they deliberately sow confusion that leaving the reporting to child abuse to the parties involved is the same as ‘covering it up.’ When the gold standard of child abuse is to “go beyond the law,” impossible situations arise with regard to persons who, not surprisingly, expect you to abide by the law. Change the law! as Geoffrey Jackson pleaded, and everyone will be happy. It will make the Witnesses’ job “so much easier.” Few others undertake that job—of self-policing—so if the laws are screwed up it affects them not at all. 

Who are these “apostates”—and I usually call them malcontents, detractors, or some like word, because outside of the Witness community, and even inside it, people tire of the term. 

From the meta-data of ‘TrueTom vs the Apostates!’—

“No New Testament writer fails to deal with then-rampant apostasy—a movement which finds its counterpart today. Two Bible chapters are entirely dedicated to it. Apostates of that time would “despise authority.” How could that become a problem unless there was authority? They loved “lawlessness.” How could that become a problem unless there was law? They favored acts of “brazen conduct,” had “eyes full of adultery,” and were “unable to desist from sin.” How could that become a problem unless there was someone to tell them that they could not carry on in that way? Not only is the nature of apostates revealed in the above Bible verses, but also the nature of the Christian organization.”

Any faith too bland to have quality apostates—I am almost proud of ours—is too bland to be given the time of day. They validate us. The more “respectable” churches where anything goes—what would people apostatize from?

See them snarling in their lairs! What accounts for their discontent? Well—let us not get too flippant (as we have several places in this post)—some of them genuinely caught the short end of the stick and then declined congregation efforts to restore them. But in general, whenever one discards a scenario in which there is discipline for one in which there is not, it will be like releasing a compressed spring—it rebounds wildly, delirious with its newfound freedom, caring not where it goes. This will be true when one leaves behind the school, the military, or the job. It will especially be true if one quit or was expelled from that institution—and that is the case of most on the anti-JW site. Many of them have come out as gay. Witnesses may not gay-bash as do some evangelicals, plenty of whom froth on the subject and tirelessly prod legislators to make it hot for gays in general society—Witnesses don’t do that—still, there is no place for gay sex relations within the Witness organization—and that hardly endears them to former members who have gone that way. There is a plain backdrop of ‘settling the score’ to be detected in many posts. It is anything but easy to hold the line on Bible morality in a quickly changing world.“

to be continued.....maybe

24 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

You have the right to disagree with scripture of course, but then it seems insulting to the one whom inspired its writing. 

He was having an off day. You would know if you did your research. They had just raised the price of all his newspaper and magazine subscriptions and he was fed up.

7 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

There's no end to the publishing of books, and constant study wears you out so you're no good for anything else.

Nah.....that’s just the taunt of those who hate to read

1 hour ago, Witness said:

The GB had a home but decided they needed a better one. 

It’s called updating. People have done this since the beginning of time. The printing presses they use didn’t even fit in the NYC buildings, they became so large. For decades the locals have wanted Witnesses out of there—with an eye on how those properties might be used if put to commercial use & the tax revenue that would generate. It was a win-win for all, and the only one who doesn’t like it is you.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

With JW donations and volunteer work, it was accomplished.  No one, who labored in this effort either monetarily or physically ,was reimbursed one dime. 

This is the world that you have chosen to live in, lady, and you are welcome to it: a world in which you do not do anything unless you are getting paid!

Let us assume, Witness, that you have accepted the brothers’ generous offer to rebuild your house after natural disaster. Repairs are made to the modest value (in the U.S) of $100,000. But then when it turns out that you have insurance and the organization suggests it wouldn’t be a bad idea to donate the insurance check to the work—and you tell them to take a hike!

Question: What are you going to do with that insurance money?

15 hours ago, Witness said:

You didn't read all that it said about the American Red Cross, did you.

In fact, I did.

15 hours ago, Witness said:

But the charity has come under severe criticism of late....The Red Cross has responded to these criticisms with answers that sound reasonable

What criticisms? As stated:

Read how the ones in charge couldn’t speak the native languages and often skipped community meetings on that account. Read how some disrespected the local workers. Read how Washington headquarters micromanaged everything, how shifting senior management slowed progress to a crawl, how leaders with “absolutely no expertise” wielded authority. Read about hand-washing campaigns launched with huge fanfare to people who had no access to soap or water. Read about the 130,000 claimed to have been housed, but who actually just attended a seminar on how to fix their own homes, received temporary rental assistance or provisional shelters that started to disintegrate after three to five years. And be fair to the Red Cross: Read their response. Read it all. Were it not so tragic, it would be laughable. It was all so preventable. All that was needed was Bible education. Jehovah’s Witnesses have it. They value it. They didn’t suffer from the Red Cross’s problems.

Now let us place ourselves on their day on the hot seat:

Reporter: “These are ridiculous screwups! You must take responsibility and be held accountable! How could these things have happened?!”

A: “Look, it’s not our fault if they can’t speak English! What’s wrong with them. And there were a lot of internal promotions going on at the time. It regrettably caused some confusion. People want to move up in their careers, after all. You certainly can’t blame them for that! And what kind of a crazy place doesn’t have soap or water? That’s not our fault! And we got a bad bunch of rotting plywood from ‘Big Bob’s Builders’ just before they went under. They gave us a great deal which would have saved ‘those people’ money. We can’t be held responsible for housing that fell apart! Picky, picky, picky!”

Reporter: “Sounds reasonable.”

13 hours ago, Witness said:

Do you know that many of these "members" are asked to turn over their insurance check to the organization?  

Yes, I have heard that. Since that is the very purpose of insurance, I was astounded that anyone would be small enough to object to this. Remember, they commence rebuilding without knowing or caring whether there is insurance in a given case. People are always free to turn the WT down and wait several weeks for the overworked commercial builders to get around to it.

I wrote about this accusation at some length: 

https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2019/01/are-we-looking-at-encouragement-to-commit-insurance-fraud-part-1.html

Aren’t you sort of a piece of work—first asserting that the disaster relief work is a lying sign from Satan who is master at seeming an angel of light, and then saying that that the relief work is no big deal, since everybody does it?

On 1/12/2020 at 3:15 PM, Arauna said:

have written some comments on here but noticed that the icon for someone to answer me has been removed

Not sure if the following accounts for your problem, but this forum is divided into ‘clubs.’ This club here is the JW open club. There is also a JW closed club. You must physically join a club to have commenting privileges in it. If you have trouble, check the thread’s banner to see if you are in a different club.

9 hours ago, Anna said:

Now I am sure there will be malcontents (as you call them) who will claim that he must have been brainwashed into being loyal to the organization.

I have called them “malcontents” because I don’t want to get @admin going again. Remember how he yelled at us all, saying that the rest of the world has moved on and nobody cares if people in the JW world are crying ‘apostate’ at each other and they think we’re all nuts? Who wants to risk that tirade again?

He has a point. It does have to ring a little crazy to anyone else. Will he accept my explanation that the early Christians had apostates as virulent—so virulent that two entire chapters of the Bible are devoted to them (2 Peter 2, Jude 1) and there is no NT writer that does not come to grips with them? I wouldn’t hold my breath.

From the meta-data of ‘TrueTom vs the Apostates!’—

No New Testament writer fails to deal with then-rampant apostasy—a movement which finds its counterpart today. Two Bible chapters are entirely dedicated to it. Apostates of that time would “despise authority.” How could that become a problem unless there was authority? They loved “lawlessness.” How could that become a problem unless there was law? They favored acts of “brazen conduct,” had “eyes full of adultery,” and were “unable to desist from sin.” How could that become a problem unless there was someone to tell them that they could not carry on in that way? Not only is the nature of apostates revealed in the above Bible verses, but also the nature of the Christian organization. 

Any faith too bland to have quality apostates—I am almost proud of ours—is too bland to be given the time of day. They validate us. The more “respectable” churches where anything goes—what would people apostatize from?

But the general audience may weary of the term “apostate.” So I say “malcontent,” “detractor,” “grumbler.” It’s just to throw Admin off the track. Because you know and I know the song these “malcontents” sing at their secret gatherings—the Queen song: 

“We’re the apostates, my friends

And we'll keep on fighting 'til the end

We’re the apostates

We’re the apostates

No way we’re losers

'Cause we’re the apostates of the world.”

1 hour ago, Witness said:

The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 

You know, Jehovah’s Witness disaster relief works—home’s of members that have been demolished are promptly rebuilt—I wouldn’t think anyone could put that in a supernatural category, much less an evil one—it’s just people rolling up their sleeves and getting to work. But you continually prove me wrong.

People housed, comforted, treated for injuries—that is a “lying sign and wonder?”

Really?

1 hour ago, Witness said:

But, perhaps you need to compare apples to apples - a religion in the world, compared to other religions in the world. 

If you noticed, that comparison was made in the video. Several persons marveling at how a brother or sister had been cared for while their own church hadn’t done squat for them. I even wondered if that was necessary. But you have proved that it was.

As for your cited humanist article: ”Of course there are secular charities, the most recognized of which is the American Red Cross—“ ....I think we can dismiss at least some of their effusive praise in light of the ProPublica article linked in my post—half a billion raised for Haiti—almost all of it squandered. Let us suggest that there may be similar exaggeration with regard to their praise elsewhere.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

No, I get the point. 

I take it back. I think you do. And you are deliberately lying about it.

7 minutes ago, Witness said:

But if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. 

You miss the entire point. They are setting the example for everyone else to follow. Nobody is. There is no reason they cannot. They choose to put their trust in other models—models that don’t work.

15 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

But, because of your unappropriate way of how involving our names here,

Is it? I suppose it is. But I am human, too. With you and others so eager to tear down what is practically the sole beacon of hope on that island, I was not able to resist. Forgive me.

25 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

IT ISN'T MEANT TO BE FIXED BY HUMANS, IT IS THE DEVIL'S WORLD.

I see your point. What those brothers in Haiti really needed was to hear you and Witness telling them that the people who rebuilt their homes and restored their lives were no good.

My gracious, you are stupid!

27 minutes ago, Anna said:

But if one doesn't have that kind of faith, then money is the next best thing.

In fact, I appended your remarks to my original post. (on my blog, not here.)

40 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Lawyers are part of the devil's world, and money seems to be what drives them. 

Not all lawyers.

40 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

You cannot expect an experienced lawyer to work for no pay.

I know some who do it all the time.

40 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

And it needs very experienced lawyers to fight the GB and their lawyers, because the GB's lawyers play dirty.  

They only “play dirty” in your eyes because they beat your side.

14 minutes ago, Anna said:

 why would he want to claim damages from a community that he likes being a part of, especially when he knew they were not responsible for what his stepdad did to him. He knew his step dad was going to be prosecuted, and that was enough justice for him.

Exactly. Look, if someone offered me $20 million (or bought enough of my books to total that amount—hint, hint) I would take it in a heartbeat if there were no strings attached. But the “strings attached” in this instance is kicking the organization in the teeth which is likely more proactive than anyone in actually preventing child sexual abuse.

Ten years to the day after Haiti suffered a magnitude 7 earthquake that killed 250,000, CBS News sent Jeff Glor to Port au Prince to report on progress. There wasn’t any—or at least, it didn’t seem that way.

“Mass protests, gang violence, rampant political corruption...jobs are scarce,” was his glum assessment. 80 million dollars had immediately after the quake been allocated to rebuild the hospital, and CBS showed the unfinished building standing empty. As to the devastation of the old hospital—the only hospital in town? It “reeks of raw sewage, piles of trash are everywhere.” 

“Sorry, Buddy, I’m sorry,” a shaken Jeff Glor murmurs, stroking the head of a writhing infant unable to relieve himself. “I can’t imagine the pain he’s in right now,” he says to his parent.

Read the report of how the beacon of relief looked to by humanists ten years ago raised half a billion dollars in the wake of the earthquake—and squandered almost all of it: here

Yes, but surely ten years later, mighty progress has been made. Nope. Doesn’t seem so. In contrast, disaster relief teams organized by the Coordinator’s Committee of the Jehovah’s Witnesses’s Governing Body, quickly attended to physical needs of members back then. Not only physical needs, but the more important spiritual needs, for it is widely recognized that hope is what people need at such time at least as much as physical relief. 

An excerpt from Tom Irregardless and Me: 

In contrast, the Red Cross, America’s ‘charity of choice,’ succeeded in raising half a billion dollars after a 7.0 magnitude earthquake struck Haiti in January 2010. Five years later, ProPublica and NPR jointly reported that they had astonishingly little to show for it; “It’s difficult to know where it all went,” they wrote. Search through their June 3, 2015 report and read the devastating consequences of not having Bible education.

Read how the ones in charge couldn’t speak the native languages and often skipped community meetings on that account. Read how some disrespected the local workers. Read how Washington headquarters micromanaged everything, how shifting senior management slowed progress to a crawl, how leaders with “absolutely no expertise” wielded authority. Read about hand-washing campaigns launched with huge fanfare to people who had no access to soap or water. Read about the 130,000 claimed to have been housed, but who actually just attended a seminar on how to fix their own homes, received temporary rental assistance or provisional shelters that started to disintegrate after three to five years. And be fair to the Red Cross: Read their response. Read it all. Were it not so tragic, it would be laughable. It was all so preventable. All that was needed was Bible education. Jehovah’s Witnesses have it. They value it. They didn’t suffer from the Red Cross’s problems.

You should be fair to the Red Cross - don’t pile on just because the herd does. Haiti is a spectacular train wreck for them, but probably they do better elsewhere. Doubtless they have fine people doing their best. No one alleges theft. They offer an explanation for their performance. Read it. Essentially, they had problems because they didn’t know what they were doing: they didn’t mesh with the locals, they didn’t understand the local laws. Cut them slack on these things, if you like, but also note that such problems would never occur in Jehovah’s organization, where local people are highly valued, if not placed in charge.

Author Bill Underwood in the now defunct examinier.com compared the disaster relief efforts of several religious organizations. Most issued urgent appeals for money. Most provided only sketchy details as to what they would do with those monies. But when it came to the Watchtower:

Well, that was refreshing. I went to watchtower.org and searched it for references to money, donations, charity. All I found were Watchtower articles such as ‘Is money you master or your servant?’ Try as I might, there was no way to donate any money to the organization, nor any request for donations. The only mention of money I found, in connection with Haiti, was in a public news release at jw-media.org entitled “Witnesses’ relief efforts well under way for victims of earthquake in Haiti.” A single line at the bottom read, ‘The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses is caring for these expenses by utilizing funds donated to the Witnesses’ worldwide work.’

....At the home of Victor Vomidog, an alarm panel light pulsed red. Victor read the incoming feed. It was serious. Someone was saying nice things about Jehovah’s Witnesses. Instantly, he swung into action. There was not a moment to lose. He opened his door and whistled. The media came running. “Witnesses are selfish!” he cried. “They only think of themselves! Why don’t they help everyone? Why do they just do their own people?” That evening, media ran the headline: “WHY DON’T THEY HELP EVERYONE?”

But they had asked the wrong question. The headline they should have run, but didn’t, because they didn’t want to deal with the answer, was: “WHY AREN’T OTHERS DOING THE SAME?” The answer to the first question is obvious: Witness efforts consist of volunteers using their vacation time. Just how much time is the boss going to grant?

So do it yourself, Victor! Organize your own new chums! Or send your money to some mega-agency where they think Bible education is for fools. Be content to see monies frittered away on salaries, hotels, travel, retirement, health care benefits, and God knows what else! Be content to see much of what remains squandered! It’s the best you can do - embrace it! Or at least shut up about the one organization that has its act together.

The obvious solution, when it comes to disaster relief, is for others to do as we do. Why have they not? There are hundreds of religions. There are atheists…aren’t you tight with Sam now, Victor? Organize them, why don’t you? They all claim to be unGod’s gift to humankind. Surely they can see human suffering. Why don’t they step up to the plate themselves?

They can’t. They are vested in a selfish model that runs a selfish world. Let them become Jehovah’s Witnesses and benefit from the Bible education overseen by the Governing Body, Plato’s and Sider’s dream brought to life. But if they stay where they are, they must look to their own organization or lack thereof. There’s no excuse that they should not be able to copy us. They have far more resources to draw upon. We’re not big enough to do everyone for free, and we don’t know how to run a for-pay model; we’ve no experience in that. Instead, other groups must learn how to put love into action, as we did long ago.

C’mon, Victor! If all the world needs is to ‘come together,’ then see to it! We don’t know how to do that. People without Bible education tend not to get along. You make them do it! You don’t want to, or can’t, do large-scale relief, yet you want to shoot down those who do! What a liar!

...

CBS News and Jeff Glor is determined to find a silver lining in this total failure uncovered during his 2020 visit. He does find one—but it is not in Port au Prince, which is still apparently a lost cause, despite humanists throwing everything they have at it.

“But take  a trip outside the capitol and you find a remarkable place that many people doubted could ever exist in this country.” Jeff reports of St Boniface hospital, a remarkable (for Haiti) institution run by Health Equity International, caring for needs that cannot be cared for anywhere else in the country, it’s director says. People travel hundreds of miles to get there. It was started in 1983, and thus has nothing to do with human efforts in response to the 2010 devastation, but it clearing has found a place since then.

No bad things will be said about Health Equity International. Only good things. It represents dedication at its best. Still, in the context of the greater picture....well—you must “take a trip outside the capitol” to find it—something, unless I am very wrong, that the majority of residents will not be able to do. Inside the capitol—where everyone is—there appears scant improvement in 2010, in fact, worse than scant improvement, for there were not “mass protests,” prior to the quake, and probably “gang violence” was not as bad. “Rampant political corruption” probably was, but that is business as usual in large portions of the world. 

Fix it, you humanists. Fix it, you anti-cultists. Fix it, you “evidence-based” atheists. Fix it, @Srecko Sostar. Fix it, @Witness. Fix it, @4Jah2me—your solution is at least ten years away and people need relief now! Fix it—all or any of you. Or at least lay off on deriding JWs, since your people certainly aren’t rising to the occasion.

On 1/12/2020 at 2:29 AM, JW Insider said:

You should speak with some of the Watchtower attorneys. I don't think you will ever again claim that they would like to give the victim compensation.

How, exactly, does $20 million for the plaintiff repair her trauma?

How, exactly, does $10 million for the lawyer repair that victim’s trauma?

The world is very eager to punish with regard to child sexual abuse, but does it actually do anything to prevent it? 

9 hours ago, Arauna said:

Some carry hammers all the time when it comes to JWs.......... logical reasoning disperses and the hammer becomes the focus.

“But whoever stumbles one of these little ones who have faith in me, it would be better for him to have hung around his neck a millstone that is turned by a donkey and to be sunk in the open sea.” Matthew 18:6

I am quite certain due to my exhaustive research that in the secret files of the WNMF.org there is an unrun help-wanted ad—and I could prove the existence of if the The Librarian would release her files (what does the old hen have to hide?)—that reads:

”Help Wanted: Corrections officer to fasten the millstone upon stumbler-criminals. Apply WNMF, M-F, 8-5, send portfolio of posts contributed to this forum.”

Furthermore, I have knowledge that Mr Admin and the Librarian actually ran the ad briefly, and it drew enough replies to crash their system.

17 hours ago, Witness said:

Unfortunately, based on our reading of the Montana Supreme Court's opinion, the Court was mislead by testimony offered by the JWs

When you promise your clients the moon and deliver goose eggs, you’ve got to say something. What do you think he is going to say? “I lost because I’m a crummy lawyer?”

15 hours ago, Arauna said:

As I just said - law is law....... no place for compassion. It carrys the sword.... and uses only the sword - nothing else.

It’s why you don’t apologize for anything. It will be framed as a confession. 

41 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

I have never banned anyone, nor have I asked for anyone to be banned. 

I have, though. After a series of breathtakingly nasty comments, I suggested that it was time for Matthew4-5784 to hit the road. Shortly afterwards he was gone and every one said, ‘Good riddance.”

17 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

For you to state that it is rare amongst the JW Org for its 'leaders' to be involved, you would need to have access to those files. 

Not everything in life is dependent upon “access to files.” Sometimes looking at what is right in front of your nose is enough.

Montana is typical of other CSA Witness cases—no involvement whatsoever of elders other than their role of persons who did not report. Other organizations you do not hear of CSA unless it is one of the leaders arrested for it. Other than a rotter in San Diego, are there any such cases with JWs?

As it turns out, I have it on excellent authority that each and every person you have interacted with over the past year is a disgusting pervert. How do I know that? Easy. It is in the files that are hidden from me!

59 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

I read half of it Tom, but

Not to be unkind, 4Jah, but you do burn out rather quickly. It would be nice if you did more than just search for bullet points for you ammo case.

Here is the way to look at events in Montana: I wrote it up this morning and posted on my blog. Reproduced here:

After the multi-million dollar verdict against Jehovah’s Witnesses in Montana was reversed, I visited the Witness-bashing website to see how they were taking it. They were not happy. However, the ones who knew law were analytical.

“This isn’t the fault of the courts,” one said. “It’s the fault of the Montana law as written. Courts must follow law or risk reversal on appeal. This case was never going to be ultimately won. The law was way too clear on the matter.”

Another: “Montana followed the law. It’s that simple and of course Watchtower followed the law...”

Yet another: “The case never should have been started, as the law clearly backed JW’s actions. It never had a chance of surviving appeal.”

They sure didn’t talk that way after the first trial. Some of their cohorts wanted to rub my nose—line by line—through that first transcript. ‘The court found your people guilty, TrueTom! Why would they do that unless they had broke the law—they who say they adhere to the law!’ I didn’t respond because I am not a lawyer that would try to unravel their affairs. Moreover, courts, while they may represent the best human justice available, are clearly not above bias from pre-existing philosophical leanings—if they were confirming a Supreme Court Justice would take ten minutes. ‘Wait until the fat lady sings,’ was my attitude. When she did, it was to throw out the judgement of the skinny lady.

Not all were so retrospective after that reversal. “F**k the Montana Supreme Court!” was the outraged complaint woven throughout the thread, with some accusing those seven justices (the reversal was 7-0) of being enablers themselves! Child sexual abuse is the most white-hot topic of all and calm heads rarely prevail. One of them muttered at how they must be “celebrating this victory” at Watchtower HQ. But they showed no sign of it. The Witness attorney summed up events: “There are no winners in a case involving child abuse. ‘No child should ever be subjected to such a debased crime....Tragically, it happens, and when it does Jehovah's Witnesses follow the law. This is what the Montana Supreme Court has established.’” Obviously if one is on the hook for several million dollars and then no longer is, they will not mourn over it. But the focus was kept on the victim, as it should have been. Ideally, she gets full justice from the perpetrator directly responsible.

The gold standard in matters of child sexual abuse is to “go beyond the law.” It is a crazy expectation and I can think of no parallels to it. The expectation is found in a remark already presented, but in truncated form. The full remark was: “Montana followed the law. It’s that simple and of course Watchtower followed the law, rather than just simply reporting child abuse like a good Christian organization.”

If the gold standard regarding child abuse is to “go beyond the law” then MAKE that the law! That’s what law is for! Three times before the ARC Geoffrey Jackson pleaded for such a change—it would make his job “so much easier.” ‘Going beyond the law’ is surely to trigger the wrath of those who, not unreasonably, expect you to abide by the law! Change the law and everyone is happy.

As though on cue, a report surfaced regarding another faith. An Oregon woman has filed a lawsuit for $9 million against the Mormon church because they DID report a confidentially disclosed sexual abuse of a minor. “Clergy are not required to report known or suspected child abuse if the knowledge results from a congregation member's confidential communication or confession and if the person making the statement does not consent to disclosure," Justice Beth Baker wrote in the Montana Supreme Court opinion. It is a statement that will clearly help the Oregon woman, but would not if it were not the law. Change the law if you are really serious about nabbing pedophiles.

The way everything unfolded in Montana pretty well accords with my initial assessment. So great is the world”s frustration at not being able to make a dent in the child sexual abuse pandemic that the first court chose to ignore law in pursuit of that end. It might well be combined with some religious bias, but I would not hang my hat on the latter—outrage over child sexual abuse is sufficient in itself. The Witness organization did follow law, as the Supreme Count validated, but the first court reinterpreted law and made it retroactive to make it seem that they did not. I wrote about it here:

Change the law! Why cannot that be done? If Watchtower wants to change a policy, they can do it overnight and have it implemented worldwide within the week. It is the basket-case eternally squabbling, turf-guarding, plethora of competing jurisdictions that cause many Witnesses to become Witnesses in the first place—they see how hopeless it is with human governments.

Ones who want to bring the Watchtower down on the pretext of child sexual abuse, such as those who predominate at the Witness bashing site, are hardly out of bullets, but they are continually frustrated. Their efforts to put Witness stories above all others gains little traction because the pattern elsewhere is that the leaders of organizations, religious or otherwise, are the abusers themselves, something rarely true with the Witness organization, and also that child sexual abuse appears to be the primary export of the planet, crowding out stories of “lesser” significance. With Watchtower (as in Montana) the situation is typically that of abuse within a family or step-family and Witness leaders come under the gun for evoking law and not reporting it, leaving that up to the persons involved—sometimes they do but often they don’t. History may well judge that harshly, but it does not hold a candle to leaders actually committing the abuse themselves. The class action suit in Quebec that I wrote about was similarly dismissed. Moreover, that contributing perception—that it is a disgrace to call attention to child sexual abuse—has been firmly put to rest among Witnesses.

The Epstein joke making the rounds is: “If you were surprised at Jeff Epstein committing suicide, just think how surprised he must have been!” Of course. With prison security protocol breaking down “at every level” and with 60 Minutes concluding that his injuries far suggest homicide over suicide, the conclusion that he was put to sleep by powerful interests to protect other pedophiles will never be squashed. People are naive, but not that naive. 

A DisneyLand executive was recently sentenced for pedophile offenses, and Erin Elizabeth of HealthNutNews, who has lived in the area, says it happens all the time. The point is, there is no place where child sexual abuse is not, but participants on the anti-JW site see it in only one place—a place where its intensity pales next to places where leaders are the abusers, not just ones trying to stem it who may have done so clumsily.

Thirty years into all-out war against child sexual abuse and barely a dent has been made! For my money, the JW organization is the most proactive of all, gathering every single member on earth to consider detailed scenarios in which child abuse might happen—if there are sleepovers, if there are tickling sessions, if there are unsupervised trips to the rest room, if someone, even a relative, shows unusual interest in your child, and so forth—so that parents, the obvious first line of defense, can be on the alert. This was done at the 2017 Regional Conventions, which were held globally.

It is the common and accepted legal practice to go as high up on the food chain as possible with regard to any lawsuit—everyone knows this and judges it an unremarkable fact of life. “Knew or should have known” is the legal expression that carries the day and effectively amounts to a tax on the common person. Governments raise taxes. Businesses raise prices. When I hear that my neighbor’s lawyer secured him millions of dollars for his auto accident, I rejoice with him—then I open my insurance premium bill.

As people become ever more debased, just where does this end? Women on airlines are reporting sexual abuse. Even rape has been reported, and with passengers being packed in like sardines, attendants expected to monitor this are caught dumbfounded. Do they “know or should have known?” In an increasingly depraved world, your guess is as good as mine.

As to sentiment on the Witness-bashing website? Look, whenever one discards a scenario in which there is discipline for one in which there is not, it will be like releasing a compressed spring—it rebounds wildly, delirious with its newfound freedom, caring not where it goes. This will be true when one leaves behind the school, the military, or the job. It will especially be true if one quit or was expelled from that institution—and that is the case of most on the anti-JW site. Many of them have come out as gay. Witnesses may not gay-bash as do some evangelicals, some of whom froth on the subject and tirelessly prod legislators to make it hot for gays in general society—Witnesses don’t do that—still, there is no place for gay relations within the Witness organization—and that hardly endears them to former members who have gone that way. There is a plain backdrop of ‘settling the score’ to be detected in many posts. It is anything but easy to hold the line on Bible morality in a quickly changing world.

Oh, for crying out loud! Where is Quality Control on these things?

From The Watchtower, September 1, 2012: “Does God Really Care About Women?”

“No” is the answer, as reproduced in the Research Guide, followed by: “Genesis 1:27 states: ‘God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them.’ So from the very beginning, humans—both male and female—were created with the ability to reflect God’s qualities. Although Adam and Eve had their own unique emotional and physical makeup, they both received the same commission and enjoyed the same rights before their Maker. (Genesis 1:28-31)

This explanation accords with a ‘Yes’ answer, not a ‘No’ answer. Something is goofy. What is going on?

Look up that September 1 Watchtower and you will see a heading that is not reproduced: “Did God Create Woman Inferior to Man?” Ah—this clears it up. The answer to the missing heading is “No.” But why is that paragraph cited without the heading that explains it all? What’s with THAT? It is the collection of bloopers in the movie that appears as the credits roll—except this one has been left in the movie! So it is the scene of George Washington crossing the Delaware and the actor playing George has neglected to remove his wristwatch! Quality control, if you please? Find that brother and assign him potato-peeling duty in the HQ basement for the next 20 years, right next to the fellow who thought it a fine idea to hang out at the UN library.

My first reaction was mortification. I told @JW Insider (privately)—he seems to know every other person in Bethel—to have them make corrections. But he just laughed his sides off. Whether he did it or not I do not know. Then I said, “Nah—leave it in. They’ll discover it soon enough and the next update will make changes.” Leave it in so the rabid JW detractors can zero in, highlight it, gleefully sing it to the heavens, and then look like utter fools when anyone with a brain can go to the source and see the missing heading. Even if the Watchtower did feel in their heart of hearts that women are second class citizens—What! They are going to run a headline: “Does God Care About Women? No.” I don’t think so. Let those detractors go way way out on a limb with it, the same way they did with that article on women dealing with a difficult home life—the crash will be all the more spectacular when it comes.

The fact of the matter is that Jesus does this kind of thing all the time, and he does it deliberately—not exactly this sort of thing, but close enough in my book. He does it when he likens God to that unrighteous judge who will grant justice but only when you pester him to death. (Luke 18:6) He does it when he likens his ideal follower to the crook who robs his master blind and the master praises him for his use of “practical wisdom”—even adding: “for the sons of this system of things are wiser in a practical way toward their own generation than the sons of the light are!” (Luke 16:8)

What in the world is Jesus thinking? My guess is that he gives the “wise and intellectual ones” rope with which they can hang themselves. They mock the verse for its logical inconsistency and miss entirely the greater lesson taught! It is not unlike—sorry to switch to politics here—when Trump tweets that North Korea has launched its missels and anyone with common sense runs for the hills. The “wise and intellectual ones,” however, run to their keyboards to point out that the idiot can’t even spell the word right! It may be deliberate. Or it may just mean that he can’t spell—It is not JWs who buy into that concept of Trump the “flawed messiah”—that is the evangelicals that you are thinking of.

“I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children,” said Jesus at Matthew 11:25. I think he uses hyperbole as a tool in his toolbox because humble, honest, and hungry ones will instantly get the sense of it but the critical thinkers will not. “He catches the wise in their own cunning, so that the plans of the shrewd are thwarted,” is the thought expressed at Job 5:13.

I think that is what Jesus is doing—I don’t know it. Others may take it differently. “Why would he deliberately mislead people?” one atheist flung at me. The answer is that “he catches the wise in their own cunning.” Look to your heart. Note from that same Research Guide the commentary on Genesis 1:31, this one from the 1/1/2008 Watchtower:

“Evolution presents modern man as an improving animal. The Bible presents modern man as the degenerating descendant of a perfect man.”

Though the Watchtower does not make the application, I believe this explains why the essentially “top-down” approach of the JW organization resonates with its members—the “top” of the human organization taking the mantel of the “older men in Jerusalem” who had brought Christianity to the rank and file in the first place. “Critical thinking,” on the other hand, is far more in keeping with the approach of man as an “improving animal”—developing powerful skills of thought to lift us all up by our own bootstraps. It is not that the tool is valueless. It is that it should not be relied upon as the be-all and end-all—which is the way humanists usually do think of it. Let them debate themselves right off the deck of the ship before it reaches Port Newsystem.

Now, to be sure, The Watchtower is not inspired, nor is the Research Guide where I first discovered this blooper, a commentary on Genesis 1:27. It is not even as clever (sorry—politics again) as the trap Trump laid for his enemies in calling a press conference—and boy, did they come running!—expecting him to duck out of the 2016 presidential race after his ‘grab them by the you-know-what’ remark came to light, but instead, they found him flanked with the three women that had accused President Clinton of gross misconduct! No. This one from the Watchtower is just pure clumsiness. It might even be deliberate—a prank by some immature kid at Bethel to see what he could get away with. It will be corrected soon enough—and I, having the rare “collector’s edition,” will sell it to Nemo for $100K.

It has not been a good week for Witness enemies—Nemo will be pulling his hair out. They were putting huge stock in that multi-million dollar verdict against Watchtower in a child sexual abuse matter and now that verdict has been reversed without a single dissenting vote. One of them muttered how they must be “celebrating this victory” at Watchtower HQ. But they showed no sign of it. The Witness attorney said, “there are no winners in a case involving child abuse. ‘No child should ever be subjected to such a debased crime,...Tragically, it happens, and when it does Jehovah's Witnesses follow the law. This is what the Montana Supreme Court has established.’” Obviously if one is on the hook for several million dollars and then no longer is, they will not mourn over it. But the focus is kept on the victim, as it should be. Ideally, she gets full justice from the perpetrator directly responsible.

If the actual requirement is that Witnesses or anyone else go “beyond the law,” then make that the law—Witnesses have demonstrated themselves pretty good at following law—and the problem is solved. Ones who want to bring the Watchtower down on this pretext are hardly out of bullets, but they are continually frustrated. Their efforts to put Witness stories above all others gain little traction because the pattern elsewhere is that the leaders of organizations, religious or otherwise, are the abusers, something rarely true with the Witness organization, and also that child sexual abuse appears to be the primary export of the planet, crowding out stories of “lesser” significance. With Watchtower (as in Montana) the situation is that of abuse within a step-family and Witness leaders come under the gun for evoking law and not reporting it, leaving that up to the persons involved—sometimes they do but often they don’t. History may well judge that harshly, but it does not hold a candle to leaders actually committing the abuse themselves.

It is the common and accepted legal practice to go as high up on the food chain as possible with regard to any lawsuit—everyone knows this and judges it an unremarkable fact of life. How much did whoever “know or should have known” is the legal expression that carries the day and effectively amounts to a tax on the common person. Governments raise taxes. Businesses raise prices. When I hear that my neighbor’s lawyer secured him millions of dollars for his auto accident, I rejoice with him—then I open my insurance premium bill.

As people become ever more debased, just where does this end? Women on airlines are reporting sexual abuse. Even rape has been reported, and passengers being packed in like sardines, attendants expected to monitor this are caught unawares Do they “know or should have known?” In an increasingly depraved world, your guess is as good as mine.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

does he talking about great and/or small matters or he speaking about some other sort of valuation

That is a 6 on the scale of matters.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I think how something is wrong, confusing here. 

It is perfectly clear, or ought be.

4 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

True Anointed inside 5 years ,then another 5 years to gather people in,

I have read of other 5-year plans in history. I had imagined they were things of the past.

4 hours ago, Kosonen said:

I am motivated by the essence of Jesus' teaching and following the example of prophets and apostles

Who isn’t?

4 hours ago, Kosonen said:

So I am here to help you and everyone else to learn 

Yes

4 hours ago, Anna said:

I joked, and said any True Tom Harley could claim they were anointed. 

Unlikely.

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I joked, and said any True Tom Harley could claim they were anointed....I thought that was funny, but frightening.... 

You may rest easy, then The present understanding of the GB comes to your rescue. You are correct that anyone can claim to be anointed—such has always been the case—but as you have pointed out, they are bound and gagged and forbidden to communicate until made a member of the GB. Since only a lifetime of full time service  in work and venues more lowly than those whom they will later take the lead is a prerequisite, I have no chance of getting in—even if I were anointed.

19 hours ago, Kosonen said:

I am for what I believe to be true and I want to share that. And you are wellcome to examine my arguments and come with biblical counterarguments. That is how the true knowledge will increase.

It sounds like what you want is democracy in your place of worship—theocracy by the people, as though ‘if the people come to believe it, it must mean that God has so influenced them.’ It doesn’t work that way. 

“All your people will be taught by Jehovah,“ the verse says. It does not say that they will be taught by themselves. Who needs God if we are to be taught by ourselves? The problems you encounter with those elders reflects that they buy into the former (taught by Jehovah) rather than the latter (taught by the people).

Plainly, there must be some interface between the divine and the human. Integral to the faith of Jehovah’s Witnesses is that that interface is the successor of those who brought the truth to us in the first place—whoever fills the shoes of the “older men in Jerusalem.” That doesn’t mean that each person is not responsible for his/her own relationship with God, but it does mean that each is not an island unto himself. 

19 hours ago, Kosonen said:

But the problem with churches and WT organization is that you can not even present a different view point without disiplinary measures.

I know where you are coming from on this, but it is overstated. One doesn’t have to believe every little thing, though to be sure, one is encouraged to. But you don’t have to. What you cannot do is grab the wheel of the bus. Most elders will take your remarks below as evidence that you are trying to do this:

19 hours ago, Kosonen said:

When I told the elders that I have found some flaws in the WT explanations on Biblical doctrines the elders refused to even look at what I had found. That smells bad. It can only mean that they do not have counter arguments to many questions. 

The clear inference of these remarks is that you mean to tear the cover off this ‘faulty and maybe corrupt organization.’ Do you really think that you will be welcomed with open arms? Their entire faith is that Jehovah does not lead his people that way.

From the Reseach Guide commentary on Genesis 1:31–

“The fall from perfection explains why the human body, though marvelously designed, is susceptible to deformities and disease. Evolution is therefore incompatible with the Bible. Evolution presents modern man as an improving animal. The Bible presents modern man as the degenerating descendant of a perfect man.”

Because this is true, the “top-down” approach of the JW organization is what resonates with members. Yours smacks of the “bottom-up” approach, man as an “improving animal” developing powerful skills of thought to lift us all up by our own bootstraps.

@JW Insider says each Christian has an obligation to examine the foundation of his faith. This is true, but means of examination differ from person to person. For most people, the only examination one must make of their vehicle is to observe that it gets them from place to place, to bring it in for cursory inspection each year, and to accept the fact that, being imperfect, it will require maintenance and repair from time to time. There will be a few mechanically minded owners that will go the extra mile, tear down the engine to examine closely each component, and in doing so, might occasionally forestall a problem, but this is hardly something to be expected of the average person, even if they are the elders that you want to run your thoughts by.

I will concede that our elders might be prone at times to read ”false positives,” and it would be better if they didn’t. So? Doctors read and act upon false positives all the time and no one doubts their competency on that account. Today elders see direction on avoiding those who raise sects or divisions. (Titus 3:10, 2 Timothy 2:17, 1 Cor 1:10) and might at times overreact. Maybe they should rise to the occasion and “snatch from the fire those who have doubts.” Maybe. However the tone of your remarks indicate that you have more than doubts—you have assertions and conclusions that you want to debate with them. We are not a debating people. We are the type that waits to be taught by Jehovah.

I’m not thrilled about any number of things in the Witness organization. From time to time I drop one or two of them in this forum. I would prefer that some did feel inclined to discuss with you your points—at least until you became so insistent upon them that it became clear to both that your home lay elsewhere. Still, I keep things in perspective. The good of the JW organization far outweighs the bad. Regarding my pet peeves, I look around to see if there is anyone accomplishing the acts of faith that JWs do minus those peeves. (Please don’t come back with ‘acts of faith’ are not the important thing—or if you do, take it up with Luke for writing ‘Acts of the Apostles’ when he should have written ‘Faith of the Apostles.)  If there was, I would go there. But there is not—not even remotely close—so that I even begin to reassess my pet peeves. I am imperfect, too. Maybe if an organization was structured around my peeves, it would promptly implode. So I accept congregation policy and discipline—I may not even think it is right in every occasion and particular, but such is the nature of working with people. I’ve learned how to yield and how to cooperate. I try to get my head around them, rather than insisting that they get their head around me.

19 hours ago, Kosonen said:

I am for what I believe to be true and I want to share that. And you are wellcome to examine my arguments and come with biblical counterarguments. 

This strikes me as a remarkable lack of faith. Ought God not be able to unite people? Ought he not be able to get them to cooperate, and in so doing, magnify their acts of worship? Yet you stand as an island hailing ships passing by.

You thereby have no need of applying the above verses on avoiding divisions, for you stand by yoursef. You have no need to apply the countless verses as to how to get along, because you make no effort to get along. Where are the meetings of Hebrews 10:24 that you are not to forsake? Where is the “in” of Haggai 2:7 that the precious things of the nations are to come in to? You have no need, or even opportunity, of showing love for the brothers, since you have no brothers—you have separated from them—to God’s dishonor. Maybe he will provide a “true anointed” (essentially from scratch) within ten years.

Hypercritcal people, such as your words suggest you might be one of, are a nightmare in the congregation. They are constantly causing contentions over matters great and small. Yet, they are stumbled at the drop of a pin, and cause chaos in that way, too. The GB and elders work tirelessly to readjust such persons. But if they absolutely will not change, it is better in my view if they depart. They cause nothing but trouble.

They need to get their heads around, and more importantly, their hearts around, the huge forgiveness Jesus afforded Peter for failure at a critical time, and yet even after this, Peter failed in a colossal manner, buckling to peer pressure that even some schoolchildren would not buckle to—the matter of avoiding Gentile Christians when the Jewish Christians came calling (stumbling even Barnabas)—and yet he continued to serve as a pillar of the congregation.

It’s no good to be an island. The time for such passed long ago. Will your theme text be that of Paul Simon?