TrueTomHarley

“And now, brothers and sisters, step right around the corner into this Jerusalem exhibit, and . . . Oh, for crying out loud! There is BTK again, got in somehow and submitting everyone to his apostasy test. Can’t we get rid of this guy?”

“The Witness organization has said that it does not instruct parents not to associate with their disfellowshipped children. But they have produced a video of specific circumstances in which a parent ignores a phone call from one of them. What to make of this? Detractors will say that they are lying through their teeth with the first statement. I think not. I think they should be taken at their word—parents will reach their own decisions on the degree of contact they choose to maintain, since they can best assess extenuating circumstances. It becomes their decision—whether they find some or none at all. Specifically, what the Witness publications do is point out that there is no reason per se that normal counsel to avoid contact with those disfellowshipped is negated simply because there are family connections. That is not the same as “telling” families to break contact. It may seem like splitting hairs, but the difference is important.
“That statement finds further support in the many Witnesses who have departed and subsequently report that, though they were never disfellowshipped, they still find themselves estranged from the family mix. Effectively, they are "shunned" without any announcement at all, evidence that a "cult" is not telling parents what to do, but it is their appreciation for Bible counsel that triggers that course. The specific mechanics of avoiding associations with those who have spun 180-degrees on prior spiritual convictions may be arguable, but the general principle is not. When no verbal direction is given, Witnesses defer to the general principle, so it becomes plain that it was the general principle all along, rather than the commands of eight tyrannical men at headquarters. “What harmony is there between Christ and Belial?” says Paul, referring to two polar-opposite worlds and those who would choose between them.”
 

I don’t ‘like’ @JW Insider‘s comments too much because he usually manages to slip in a bit of mischief that I’m not too sure about, even if I don’t immediately spot it, so I don’t want to leave a track record as an ally. Having said that, Man! is he ever making good sense here...and the patience displayed...the angel on my right shoulder is saying: ‘Why can’t you be like that, TrueTom?’

The droves and droves of true Witnesses whom you seem to think flock to this platform, heedless of organizational counsel that they should not, should also recognize that no one (in the closed club) claims to be a stellar example of counsel to avoid any interaction at all with ‘apostates.’ But only you, not allowed in the closed club, thoroughly trash that counsel, as though contemptuous of it, and eagerly seek out people with whom to bicker with 24/7–thus enormously extending their shelf life, and all the while insisting you are the only faithful one around—and, alas, usually getting your head handed to you because of your reliance on name calling and dark condescension.
Everyone else is at least partially checked by organizational counsel, and might be far worse without it. They do try to remain in the overall spirit of it. Only one person here puts himself above it and ignores it completely.

This doesn't contradict what you are saying about the updates, but I always found it interesting that Paul said "the majority" as if the entire congregation was considered in the reinstatement process. 
(2 Corinthians 2:6) This rebuke given by the majority is sufficient for such a man; 
 

There you go, @BTK59,  I lured him in for you. Now you can keep his dialogue fresh for the next 30 pages by bickering with him. Throw him a lifeline. He’ll be ignored without your help.

The droves and droves of true Witnesses whom you seem to think flock to this platform, heedless of organizational counsel that they should not, should also recognize that no one (in the closed club) claims to be a stellar example of counsel to avoid any interaction at all with ‘apostates.’ But only you, not allowed in the closed club, thoroughly trash that counsel, as though contemptuous of it, and eagerly seek out people with whom to bicker with 24/7–thus enormously extending their shelf life, and all the while insisting you are the only faithful one around—and, alas, usually getting your head handed to you because of your reliance on name calling and dark condescension.
Everyone else is at least partially checked by organizational counsel, and might be far worse without it. They do try to remain in the overall spirit of it. Only one person here puts himself above it and ignores it completely.

Maybe we can say it’s okay to join us but they don’t have to use the main auditorium; we’ll reserve space for them in the spare room where we keep the literature carts. 
Motive understood. Even BTK will acquiesce, I think.
Meanwhile, hopefully they will not be like that guy on the Titanic who inspected the lifeboat safety inspection sticker, saw it did not incorporated the latest methods, and declined to board.

Maybe we can say it’s okay to join us but they don’t have to use the main auditorium; we’ll reserve space for them in the spare room where we keep the literature carts. 
Motive understood. Even BTK will acquiesce, I think.
Meanwhile, hopefully they will not be like that guy on the Titanic who inspected the lifeboat safety inspection sticker, saw it did not incorporated the latest methods, and declined to board.

He did say it. He also made it clear that the DFing was on this own insistence, that his elders didn’t want to, and they acquiesced only after he badgered them repeatedly. Seems he had a little legal matter coming up and he didn’t want it to reflect badly upon God’s name should it not turn out well. Odd, really, to fall on his own sword in that way, when no one asked it of him.
It is due to these circumstances that I and some others have had as much to do with him as we have. Alas, I can picture BTK walking out of the KH in discuss after that recent update advocating civil treatment of disfellowshipped ones.
 

He is.
Nonetheless, his example has helped me. I had a ‘take no prisoners’ approach when I first became active here. Nobody gonna saying nothin bad bout God nor the earthly organization on my watch. I was not free of ad hominem attacks. Nothing like you, of course, but I was not free of them. I was also given to sarcasm.  He reined me back that. Sometimes you have to see where people are coming from and why. If you address a topic, just address it. Just answer a question. If you employ any sarcasm at all, even though the rest of your answer is brilliant, the other person will zero in only your sarcasm, and the overall reply is lost. Of course, it still stands for members of ‘the public’ who frequent this fine site, but it also sets a bad example for them. I look upon almost with awe on how restrained he keeps himself when interacting with you, kicking back only when your adhominems and weird accusations become intolerable, and even then in a restrained way. Anyone else rather quickly collapses under your dark strangeness and throws themselves against the electric fence, like concentration camp inmates who have lost hope.
To be sure, I don’t share his interest in this particular matter of 607. If it is wrong, it will be changed. Probably, the rapid deterioration of this systems of things will make the point moot, anyway. And you can always say, ‘Oh, to blazes with it! ‘Generation’ means ‘era,’ and in that way get another 60 years out of it, if not more.
Why doesn’t he state his point just once or twice and move on? I think it is quite clear that is what would happen if not for you. He states a point in a scholarly way. You apply accelerant and make sure the entire ‘public’ knows about it. In this way, you facilitate ‘apostasy’ far more than he.
It is crucial that you stop doing this.
Absolutely vital. The public should drop everything to figure it out. Start with the excellent book (my latest) ‘In the Last of the Last Days: Faith in the Age of Dysfunction,’ available at Amazon, and most ebook retailers. Take note of the metadata:
“Those of the Enlightenment laud the “human experiment” that is democracy, Jehovah’s Witnesses laud the human experiment that is worldwide family. Theirs is John Lennon’s brotherhood of man not rejoicing that there is above us only sky but instead seeking direction from that sky. A family all but solving racism, a family uniting nationalities and social classes. Who wouldn’t want a double-shot of it? But even a recent circuit overseer likened it to “one big, united, happy, somewhat dysfunctional family,” a phrase I suspect is not in any outline.

“Witnesses are ordinary folk, with all the foibles of ordinary folk, and sometimes a few extra thrown in since “They that are whole have no need of a physician, but they that are ill do: I [Jesus] came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

“What drives the Witnesses? Examine what faces these ordinary folk who star in a world-stage role that is alternately noble and strange. Some challenge is external: “A large door that leads to activity has been opened to me, but there are many opposers.” Some challenge is internal: “We have this treasure [of the ministry] in earthen vessels.” Translation: “We have met the enemy and he is us.”

“Either way, “Do not be puzzled at the burning among you . . . as though a strange thing were befalling you,” says Peter. Don‘t be puzzled. Tackle it head-on. Start with the pure bonus, ‘Things that drive you crazy about the faith--and how to view them,’ for the goal is to endure: “When the Son of man arrives, will he really find the faith on the earth?” says Jesus. ‘Not if we have anything to do with it,’ reply ever increasing enemies.

"If errors were what you watch, O Jah, O Jehovah, who could stand?” asks the psalm. Is watching errors not the mission statement of today’s culture, typified in its media? Nobody stands as their enemies magnify, enhance, and even concoct evil reports—see it play out on the internet with any public figure, “admiring personalities,” until they destroy them. Ought Christians play that game?

"Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is stumbled, and I am not incensed? If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness,” says Paul. Three times the apostle entreated God to remove a “thorn in his flesh” Nothing doing, God said. I look better when you are flawed. If brilliant people achieve brilliant things, it’s easy to see why. But when flawed people do it . . .”
“Tips on the ministry within. How did Witnesses fare in the face of COVID-19? How to regard ever-present conspiracy theories that ripple through society? And what about those overlapping generations? How long can they overlap? What is at stake? What facts on the ground identify the times? Venturing to the edge of the universe, rewriting the textbooks, and dressing down the god of good luck is all in a day's work. Meet Mephibosheth, that faithful man of old whom nobody can pronounce his name at the New System Dinner Table. A bad boy turns over a new leaf, a theodicy that works, and my favorite circuit overseer finish up the offerings.”
It is essential that people read this work.
(I have a collection or two of the Bill Watterson cartoons ‘Calvin and Hobbes’ Some are named things like ‘The Essential Calvin and Hobbes.’ Watterson said he chose such titles because few things could be less essential than a collection of cartoons. I admit, I tease you a bit when so many things with you are ‘essential, and ‘crucial.’)

He is.
Nonetheless, his example has helped me. I had a ‘take no prisoners’ approach when I first became active here. Nobody gonna saying nothin bad bout God nor the earthly organization on my watch. I was not free of ad hominem attacks. Nothing like you, of course, but I was not free of them. I was also given to sarcasm.  He reined me back that. Sometimes you have to see where people are coming from and why. If you address a topic, just address it. Just answer a question. If you employ any sarcasm at all, even though the rest of your answer is brilliant, the other person will zero in only your sarcasm, and the overall reply is lost. Of course, it still stands for members of ‘the public’ who frequent this fine site, but it also sets a bad example for them. I look upon almost with awe on how restrained he keeps himself when interacting with you, kicking back only when your adhominems and weird accusations become intolerable, and even then in a restrained way. Anyone else rather quickly collapses under your dark strangeness and throws themselves against the electric fence, like concentration camp inmates who have lost hope.
To be sure, I don’t share his interest in this particular matter of 607. If it is wrong, it will be changed. Probably, the rapid deterioration of this systems of things will make the point moot, anyway. And you can always say, ‘Oh, to blazes with it! ‘Generation’ means ‘era,’ and in that way get another 60 years out of it, if not more.
Why doesn’t he state his point just once or twice and move on? I think it is quite clear that is what would happen if not for you. He states a point in a scholarly way. You apply accelerant and make sure the entire ‘public’ knows about it. In this way, you facilitate ‘apostasy’ far more than he.
It is crucial that you stop doing this.
Absolutely vital. The public should drop everything to figure it out. Start with the excellent book (my latest) ‘In the Last of the Last Days: Faith in the Age of Dysfunction,’ available at Amazon, and most ebook retailers. Take note of the metadata:
“Those of the Enlightenment laud the “human experiment” that is democracy, Jehovah’s Witnesses laud the human experiment that is worldwide family. Theirs is John Lennon’s brotherhood of man not rejoicing that there is above us only sky but instead seeking direction from that sky. A family all but solving racism, a family uniting nationalities and social classes. Who wouldn’t want a double-shot of it? But even a recent circuit overseer likened it to “one big, united, happy, somewhat dysfunctional family,” a phrase I suspect is not in any outline.

“Witnesses are ordinary folk, with all the foibles of ordinary folk, and sometimes a few extra thrown in since “They that are whole have no need of a physician, but they that are ill do: I [Jesus] came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

“What drives the Witnesses? Examine what faces these ordinary folk who star in a world-stage role that is alternately noble and strange. Some challenge is external: “A large door that leads to activity has been opened to me, but there are many opposers.” Some challenge is internal: “We have this treasure [of the ministry] in earthen vessels.” Translation: “We have met the enemy and he is us.”

“Either way, “Do not be puzzled at the burning among you . . . as though a strange thing were befalling you,” says Peter. Don‘t be puzzled. Tackle it head-on. Start with the pure bonus, ‘Things that drive you crazy about the faith--and how to view them,’ for the goal is to endure: “When the Son of man arrives, will he really find the faith on the earth?” says Jesus. ‘Not if we have anything to do with it,’ reply ever increasing enemies.

"If errors were what you watch, O Jah, O Jehovah, who could stand?” asks the psalm. Is watching errors not the mission statement of today’s culture, typified in its media? Nobody stands as their enemies magnify, enhance, and even concoct evil reports—see it play out on the internet with any public figure, “admiring personalities,” until they destroy them. Ought Christians play that game?

"Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is stumbled, and I am not incensed? If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness,” says Paul. Three times the apostle entreated God to remove a “thorn in his flesh” Nothing doing, God said. I look better when you are flawed. If brilliant people achieve brilliant things, it’s easy to see why. But when flawed people do it . . .”
“Tips on the ministry within. How did Witnesses fare in the face of COVID-19? How to regard ever-present conspiracy theories that ripple through society? And what about those overlapping generations? How long can they overlap? What is at stake? What facts on the ground identify the times? Venturing to the edge of the universe, rewriting the textbooks, and dressing down the god of good luck is all in a day's work. Meet Mephibosheth, that faithful man of old whom nobody can pronounce his name at the New System Dinner Table. A bad boy turns over a new leaf, a theodicy that works, and my favorite circuit overseer finish up the offerings.”
It is essential that people read this work.
(I have a collection or two of the Bill Watterson cartoons ‘Calvin and Hobbes’ Some are named things like ‘The Essential Calvin and Hobbes.’ Watterson said he chose such titles because few things could be less essential than a collection of cartoons. I admit, I tease you a bit when so many things with you are ‘essential, and ‘crucial.’)

I hope pudgy is okay but I’m fearing the worse……I really like pudgy…

I hear he went down into the abyss locked in combat with a mortal enemy who was yelling ‘Fly, you fools!’ and imagining he had saved the day. Only, unlike the movie, he remained suppressed and it was his adversary who emerged in renewed form.
 
he he he ))))))))))
 
You know, whatever happened to Srecko—another one who has disappeared? Maybe he and Pudgy also went down into the abyss, locked in mortal semi-disagreement.

I hear he went down into the abyss locked in combat with a mortal enemy who was yelling ‘Fly, you fools!’ and imagining he had saved the day. Only, unlike the movie, he remained suppressed and it was his adversary who emerged in renewed form.
 
he he he ))))))))))
 
You know, whatever happened to Srecko—another one who has disappeared? Maybe he and Pudgy also went down into the abyss, locked in mortal semi-disagreement.

I’ve seen entire armies vanish. If you exercised the correct wisdom belonging to true knowledge and the correct knowledge belonging to true wisdom, you would realize this explains some missing years of Nebuchadnezzar. I banned him. He crossed a line.
It’s okay to move it back again. Once he gets an idea in his head, it’s impossible to get it out, so I corroborate it instead. It is crucial and essential that you understand this. We must not deceive the public.
 

I’ve seen entire armies vanish. If you exercised the correct wisdom belonging to true knowledge and the correct knowledge belonging to true wisdom, you would realize this explains some missing years of Nebuchadnezzar. I banned him. He crossed a line.
It’s okay to move it back again. Once he gets an idea in his head, it’s impossible to get it out, so I corroborate it instead. It is crucial and essential that you understand this. We must not deceive the public.
 

I’ve seen entire armies vanish. If you exercised the correct wisdom belonging to true knowledge and the correct knowledge belonging to true wisdom, you would realize this explains some missing years of Nebuchadnezzar. I banned him. He crossed a line.
It’s okay to move it back again. Once he gets an idea in his head, it’s impossible to get it out, so I corroborate it instead. It is crucial and essential that you understand this. We must not deceive the public.
 

I hear he went down into the abyss locked in combat with a mortal enemy who was yelling ‘Fly, you fools!’ and imagining he had saved the day. Only, unlike the movie, he remained suppressed and it was his adversary who emerged in renewed form.
 
he he he ))))))))))
 
You know, whatever happened to Srecko—another one who has disappeared? Maybe he and Pudgy also went down into the abyss, locked in mortal semi-disagreement.

Only very occasionally, and with full recognition that God’s own lovable creatures, the beavers, are mostly graduates of Dam U.

Please don’t get them started. I have a hard time controlling those misfits and yo-yos as it is.

Ring ring . . . 
“Hello?”
“Good evening, madam, this is the AllenGeorge Fire Department. Are there any fires raging in your area?”
”No, I don’t think so. Only that pesky kid JWI roasting potatoes again. He has a little campfire going in the back yard, but it’s going out.”
”It is??!!! This is serious! Why didn’t you call? We’re on our way! Alphonse, crank up the siren so everyone hears! George, grab the accelerant! There’s not a moment to lose!”
 

You realize, of course, that no one facilitates and  magnifies this ‘corruption’ more than you.
It is rather like a hot potato on a shelf that everyone tiptoes around, and in time it will cool. Then Allan/BTK/George/Alphonse etc says, “HEY, LOOK AT THIS POTATO! LET’S PUT IT IN THE MICROWAVE AND HEAT IT UP!”

I’m still dealing with that image of a hot potato that no one wants to touch.

We’re getting ready to stone him as you speak.