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TrueTomHarley

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  1. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Arauna in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    Relax. You’ve done nothing wrong (this time).
    Are you kidding me? He has more aliases than I do.
    Imagine my rotten l**k. Here I have almost succeeded in the reappearance of the three amigos—Witness, Ann, and JTR—the original three of the thread the Librarian assigned to me, ‘TrueTom vs the Apostates,’ which I resisted because i didn’t want the job, but when my resistance proved futile, I warmed to the task and went after them with such ferocity that the same Admin that put me on it took me off—and many months later it became inspiration for my fourth book, ‘TrueTom vs the Apostates!’
    https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/917311
    Ann suddenly reappears and what happens? JTR disappears to do penance! JTR, who never was apostate in many ways but who so closely resembled one that I couldn’t tell the difference. He’s gone!—only days before the story breaks that may or may not fit so nicely into ‘TrueTom vs the Apostates—Round 2’ should such a book come about.
    Ann O’Maly, who is herself my inspiration of Top Cat O’Malihan—an alias I trotted out to mess with than pretentious buffoon AlanH—Ann herself appears as JTR disappears. I tell you, it is not right.
    Incidentally, the cat in Top Cat’s profile photo is dead. It was my cat but when I took my daughter’s dog in because she was moving away as a need-greater—well, the dog has a thing about chasing cats. So I took the cat to my Dad’s house, who was just coming down with dementia and in time I stayed with him for a few months. He figured that it was one of the barn cats that he grew up with and kept leaving it saucers of milk around the house, just as he had done in his boyhood with the other barn cats. “Great, Pop!” I would mutter. “Here I want to pour myself a bowl of cereal and I can’t because you have put all the milk out in a dozen bowls for the cat—who never touches it!”
    The cat was old by the time I took it to my Dad’s. It was a great comfort for him and would sit on his lap. He was looking for it one day and I knew he would not find it. It had crawled under the basement workbench, a place that it had never been before, to die. There really is something to the expression, ‘Crawl under a rock and die.”
  2. Haha
  3. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley reacted to JW Insider in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    Speaking of Kosonen, a few things remind me of him, too. Even the tone of offering unheeded "correction" but also this idea Furuli has:
    There is also a need for an
    independent group of elders to review all the human commandments that
    the GB has invented and to remove those that are not based on the Bible,
    and which have caused harm for individual Witnesses.
    But Furuli's book is starting to sound more like a Raymond Franz sequel (on those few points where they agree). Comparisons between the organizational hierarchy and the Catholic Church are even stronger here than in Franz' books. He even seems to acknowledge (or idealize) that there was a short period of time that immediately followed when R.Franz presented the scriptural meaning of elder, etc., to Knorr and FW Franz, and they humbly accepted the loss of power and authority.
    I could go on an on with commentary, but I'll try to save it until I'm finished. Else I won't finish.
  4. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley reacted to Arauna in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    Please notify what you think that could be.
  5. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Arauna in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    Usually you have to read a book before you comment on what it proves
  6. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Arauna in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    This is not a promising sign. How does he know they refuse to do it? 
    I wrote to them once, too, about my work—which does not by any stretch of the imagination take shots at them. I’ve not heard back. That doesn’t mean they ‘refuse.’ The verb reeks too much of adversarial intent.
    Perhaps at this very moment, the Bethel brothers have dropped all other considerations to write me a nice little letter.
    Shultz and de Vienne submitted their work to Bethel. They write that it was received ‘without comment.’ That is not the same as ‘refuse’ and they only speculated as to why their book met with silence.
  7. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Arauna in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    I would like to. Had I contact information, I would. It is even possible I did communicate with him once through some sort of channel, but I forget. 
    I am curious as to how things will be worded. Is it a ‘call to arms’ which is how the Reddit people will certain see it? Or is it more a personal ‘wish list’? Is it a call to ‘abandon ship’? It doesn’t appear to be, especially since there is no other ship to take its place and even an imperfect ship beats treading water. 
    He is a scholar. Is he a scholar AND a doer, or has he just become a scholar? That will surely have a bearing. The physical ministry grounds a person—leave it at your own spiritual peril.
    The people of higher education generally assume ‘takeover rights.’ Does he? It will make a difference. To my mind, Christianity emerged as a ‘working class’ religion, and it always remained so. You know the verses: ‘uneducated and ordinary’, ‘not many wise in a fleshly way, powerful, of noble birth’, ‘hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones’ so as to ‘reveal them to babes’. 
    If the tone of his book recognizes these verses, my guess is that he is fine. If the tone is, ‘Time to let the smart people take over’, there could be a problem. It is when the ‘smart people took over‘ in the first century that Christianity strayed so far from its roots as to be unrecognizable. Reddit, always eager for a blowup, will frame it as ‘Battle of the Titans’ with sure dire consequences to one or the other. That doesn’t mean that he does.
    Granted, as to higher education, the trouble with not having too much of it is that one finds it difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff, and is thus tempted to dismiss it all as chaff. But there is a difference between saying that this or that policy has a downside, which the present brothers will probably agree with, and saying that we ought to have someone’s head on a platter, which they will not. What side does he come down on?
     
     
  8. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Thinking in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    Of course. Obviously. What!—you think it is right that Christians should be followers of men? I think you mutter just for the sake of muttering.
    God’s laws and principles are to be found in the Bible. That is where the guidance and boundaries are. That is where members are to go so as to grow spiritually. The hope is that they should grow to maturity, make decisions per God’s laws and principles, and do not just say, “What do you think, Srecko, so I can think just like you?”
  9. Like
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Thinking in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    People want so badly to be followers of men. “I don’t care what reasoning has been done or what counsel has been given. I want to know what you think.” 
    Elders resist this because they are not trying to make their very own disciples. 
    “For when one says, “I belong to Paul,” but another says, “I to A·polʹlos,” are you not acting like mere men? 5 What, then, is A·polʹlos? Yes, what is Paul? Ministers through whom you became believers, just as the Lord granted each one.  6 I planted, A·polʹlos watered, but God kept making it grow,  7 so that neither is the one who plants anything nor is the one who waters, but God who makes it grow.”
  10. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Anna in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    No sooner had I posted this:
    than Witness posted this:
    It is a very helpful link explaining the program.
    Now, Witness never ever posts things just to be helpful. In every case, she posts to denigrate her rivals the GB and to assure all that she can do things better. So why does she post this helpful link here?
    Everyone knows her m.o. She is in a panic that God’s organization might get credit for this generosity and she wants to make sure that they don’t. She wants to make clear that this is a GOVERNMENT program, NOT a JehovahsWitness program, and that people SHOULD NOT credit her rivals with generosity. 
    Chill, you old battle axe, don’t worry about it. I plainly said that it was a USDA program for which I was grateful. USDA is government. Relax. I wasn’t giving your rivals the credit. I even said it represented a “Go to Donald” and I lament that JTR was no longer around, for I suspected that might get him going. The only credit I gave to the elders was for distributing the items.
    But does this prompt distribution not show the value of organization, organization that she says ‘Who needs it?’ Why does the USDA do it this way—distribute to non-profits? Because they have a ton of aid to distribute and if they do it all at government facilities the lines will be two miles long. They also face the challenge of letting potential recipients know. So they distribute to non-profits, taking advantage of the communication and distribution channels that they know will exist there.
    Will everyone agree here that NOBODY will do this more effectively than Jehovah’s Witnesses? There may be some to do it AS effectively, but nobody will beat them at it. Organizations where all members are known and readily found and where there exist messengers to deliver foodstuffs to each and every one of them cannot be an everyday thing.
    My wife and I received a package Saturday around 2PM, after hearing reports of such a program that morning. I can well imagine that there were churches whose members learned of it Sunday morning at services, assuming that they happened to be there, and if they weren’t—too bad. It is not my aim to put them down—frankly I think we do far too much of putting church people down—It is only to point out that the attention of the JW organization to each member is not replicated everywhere. Even where the will exists, the means may not—you have to have volunteers to quickly distribute. There will be some outfits, I have no doubt, that are attentive to those in need and will connect promptly to bring aid. But it will not be universal, and in some cases It will break down completely since it was never built up.
    It’s produce. It can’t sit around for days. It has to be handed out to each individual promptly. Members of the Witness community are broken down into service meeting groups, each under the oversight of one or more shepherds, who will know of any among them who is especially needy, and can therefore be prioritized. Apparently, there was plenty for all this time, but that may not always be so, and the elders will know how to best apportion. They are prepared to organize internal relief as was done in the 2nd chapter of Acts—coordinate members sharing with members—so that nobody is overlooked. In this case, the aid came from outside—a provision of Caesar (probably not replicated in too many countries)—and all there was to do was to distribute it promptly. I am very grateful to the government that is attentive to physical needs. Nonetheless, much of it would fall flat without proper expedition.
    And Witness says ‘Who needs organization?’ Is she nuts? This is why you need it. This is where, not only it is needed, but you draw yourself as close to it as possible so there will be no question that you are a part of it. You become one of the embers that knows enough to pull toward the main fire so as to remain embers. You don’t pull away from the fire so that, in time, nobody, including yourself, really knows it you are an ember or not.
    “Be sure to tune in to the WomanfromtheHills broadcast at 2 PM on Facebook for a discussion which will be the same as last week’s discussion—how my rivals are doing it all wrong and I can do better. Oh—and are you physically hungry? I think there is a government center somewhere in your area where they are handing out food. Get in queue. The line is only two hours in the sun. It may be that you will get some produce before it wilts and you can still be back in time to hear my address on how the Great Eight are good for nothing.”
  11. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    Usually you have to read a book before you comment on what it proves
  12. Downvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    This is not a promising sign. How does he know they refuse to do it? 
    I wrote to them once, too, about my work—which does not by any stretch of the imagination take shots at them. I’ve not heard back. That doesn’t mean they ‘refuse.’ The verb reeks too much of adversarial intent.
    Perhaps at this very moment, the Bethel brothers have dropped all other considerations to write me a nice little letter.
    Shultz and de Vienne submitted their work to Bethel. They write that it was received ‘without comment.’ That is not the same as ‘refuse’ and they only speculated as to why their book met with silence.
  13. Downvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    I would like to. Had I contact information, I would. It is even possible I did communicate with him once through some sort of channel, but I forget. 
    I am curious as to how things will be worded. Is it a ‘call to arms’ which is how the Reddit people will certain see it? Or is it more a personal ‘wish list’? Is it a call to ‘abandon ship’? It doesn’t appear to be, especially since there is no other ship to take its place and even an imperfect ship beats treading water. 
    He is a scholar. Is he a scholar AND a doer, or has he just become a scholar? That will surely have a bearing. The physical ministry grounds a person—leave it at your own spiritual peril.
    The people of higher education generally assume ‘takeover rights.’ Does he? It will make a difference. To my mind, Christianity emerged as a ‘working class’ religion, and it always remained so. You know the verses: ‘uneducated and ordinary’, ‘not many wise in a fleshly way, powerful, of noble birth’, ‘hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones’ so as to ‘reveal them to babes’. 
    If the tone of his book recognizes these verses, my guess is that he is fine. If the tone is, ‘Time to let the smart people take over’, there could be a problem. It is when the ‘smart people took over‘ in the first century that Christianity strayed so far from its roots as to be unrecognizable. Reddit, always eager for a blowup, will frame it as ‘Battle of the Titans’ with sure dire consequences to one or the other. That doesn’t mean that he does.
    Granted, as to higher education, the trouble with not having too much of it is that one finds it difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff, and is thus tempted to dismiss it all as chaff. But there is a difference between saying that this or that policy has a downside, which the present brothers will probably agree with, and saying that we ought to have someone’s head on a platter, which they will not. What side does he come down on?
     
     
  14. Downvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    Get him to send me a free copy. He can have a free one of two of my works, ‘Dear Mr. Putin - Jehovah’s Witnesses Write Russia’ and ‘TrueTom vs the Apostates’ on Smashwords. In fact, everyone can. I should have one of his. 
    Get on it, will you?
  15. Like
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Melinda Mills in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    Well well well. A 22lbs produce pack from the USDA. Apparantly all non-profits received a large supply to distribute. I’m very grateful. Elders distributed to the congregation members. But will this become a—gasp!— ‘Go to Donald’ type of thing?
    Now I really miss JTR! I would love to hear his input here. But he is doing penance for “chattering about us with wicked words.” He’ll get that cleaned up, and be back soon, perhaps.

  16. Like
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Melinda Mills in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    He made it all public previously.
    These are your words, not mine. I am not casting him anywhere. I am very glad to see he re-evaluating some choices he has made so that Nobody Else does.
    I do. He doesn’t buy into your claptrap that you can remain close to Jehovah while being at serious odds with his earthly organization. Thinking hit the nail on the head—he is REAL. If you are bringing your gift to the altar and you recall that your brother has something against you due to the outrageous things you have said, first make peace with your brother, and then offer up your gift. I imagine that this is what he is doing now.
     
  17. Like
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Melinda Mills in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    Well, he certainly was that.
    Offhand, I think you guys are nuts (not you specifically, Thinking) He lost all his kids—none will speak with him. And for what? So as to spread every opposition taunt and insult about the earthly organization that Witness and 4Jah and Srecko and Shiwiiiiiiiiiiiiiii and Matthew4 5784 are perfectly content and capable to spread? That is worth losing your family for?
    I, for one, am delighted if he is recalibrating, because by doing so he may reasonably hope to reconcile himself to his family again, not to mention the greater brotherhood. Fear not, there is no danger of his becoming “Brother Watchtower,” as he put it. And, to be sure, I would prefer it if he continued with a modified parousia here rather than vanishing completely, for I will miss the guy. But sometimes in changing course one must make a complete break. I say that I am going to cease interacting with any of the villains, but then I come across that GIF of Kirk and the Gorn and it is curtains for me. Sometimes you just have to turn things off.
    I both like and admire when someone is willing to call a spade a spade. But calling a heart, a diamond, and a club a spade as well is too much. Is he readjusting his life to become not so breathtakingly disrespectful of those struggling with their own imperfections to take the lead in the Christian work? Good. It is not such a horrible thing to allow oneself to be molded by discipline, particularly when it comes of his own accord, which it obviously did. 
    ObiWan seemed to have disappeared. So did Gandalf. But they both came back much improved for their disappearance. Maybe the same here someday.
  18. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from JW Insider in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    Maybe I have a thing for sappy endings, but I like to think it is one of those things where If you seek Jehovah, even if you have gone off track, seek righteousness, and seek meekness, then probably it will turn out just fine in the end.
    I trust it will work out that way and I count it a good thing, even if a temporary loss here.
  19. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley reacted to JW Insider in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    Just in case anyone wasn't aware, a few of JTR's recent posts had moved in this same direction, and I thought I'd share the entire song from which JTR referenced a couple of the lyrics. It struck me as too sad to respond immediately. Although I would not think it enough to draw any conclusions:
      "Seasons In The Sun"
    (originally by Jacques Brel)
    Terry Jacks (performer)
    Goodbye to you my trusted friend
    We've known each other since we were nine or ten
    Together we've climbed hills and trees
    Learned of love and ABCs
    Skinned our hearts and skinned our knees

    Goodbye my friend, it's hard to die
    When all the birds are singing in the sky
    Now that the spring is in the air
    Pretty girls are everywhere
    Think of me and I'll be there

    We had joy, we had fun
    We had seasons in the sun
    But the hills that we climbed
    Were just seasons out of time

    Goodbye papa, please pray for me
    I was the black sheep of the family
    You tried to teach me right from wrong
    Too much wine and too much song
    Wonder how I got along

    Goodbye papa, it's hard to die
    When all the birds are singing in the sky
    Now that the spring is in the air
    Little children everywhere
    When you see them, I'll be there

    We had joy, we had fun
    We had seasons in the sun
    But the wine and the song
    Like the seasons, have all gone

    We had joy, we had fun
    We had seasons in the sun
    But the wine and the song
    Like the seasons, have all gone

    Goodbye Michelle, my little one
    You gave me love and helped me find the sun
    And every time that I was down
    You would always come around
    And get my feet back on the ground

    Goodbye Michelle, it's hard to die
    When all the birds are singing in the sky
    Now that the spring is in the air
    With the flowers everywhere
    I wish that we could both be there

    We had joy, we had fun
    We had seasons in the sun
    But the stars we could reach
    Were just starfish on the beach

    We had joy, we had fun
    We had seasons in the sun
    But the stars we could reach
    Were just starfish on the beach

    We had joy, we had fun
    We had seasons in the sun
    But the wine and the song
    Like the seasons, have all gone

    All our lives we had fun
    We had seasons in the sun
    But the hills that we climbed
    Were just seasons out of time

    We had joy, we had fun
    We had seasons in the sun  
  20. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley reacted to JW Insider in Some Watchtower trivia you might not see anywhere else   
    When I first came to this site I chose the name "The Bible's Advocate" to discuss some doctrinal issues. But I never used it. I "temporarily" chose the name "JW Insider" because I also wanted to share a couple dozen trivia items that I figured no one else would be sharing. But I never got around to sharing the trivia items. By now, I'm stuck with "JW Insider" although I don't really like the name. And I also decided that the trivia items were . . . well . . .  too trivial to worry about.
    But I figured I might start sharing a few more things and see how it goes. (My family has a long history with the Watchtower Society, some going back to Russell's time. Since my great-grandfather was on the convention speaking tours with Russell and Rutherford, you can still buy his picture on eBay along with several of the other associates of Russell. In fact, some original items were even given over to the Society for exhibits.)
    I thought about this again because I'm reading a very thorough historical book on Russell titled "A Separate Identity, Volume 2" by B.W.Schulz and R.M.de Vienne. In fact, I've got nothing to share that can compare with the page after page of information about Russell from that book. So much of it is completely new to me and even a bit surprising. I wish I had been following the blog run by the author, too, because I notice that when I went back for something I had bookmarked to read, it wasn't there any more. I'll try to promote the book again here. I think people here will enjoy it.
    https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/87187-just-read-a-good-portion-of-b-w-schulz-new-book-separate-identity-volume-2/?tab=comments#comment-144581
    So if you came here for some of the trivia that I was going to share, sorry. I don't have anything to compare.
    Well, I can share one thing that few people know. But I have never looked into it that closely myself. Much (most?) of the land that the Watchtower Farm owns in Wallkill used to belong to my relatives. I shared a fact before that Brother Booth (GB) once owned the farmland where they built the original Gilead School in Lansing. But the Wallkill story is of interest to me because there's a plaque up there in Wallkill associated with an old Huguenot related church with one of my relative's names on it. (Crispell)
    I think it's now part of the Reformed Church of Shawangunk which borders on the North side of the Watchtower property there, within eyesight of the Kingdom Hall at Bruynswick Rd and Red Mill Rd. (They are across from each other, on separate sides of the Wallkill River.) I don't know if they still do it, but it was once the Watchtower's responsibility to care for a part of the historical church's property, including the plaque.
    Of course all this is meaningless as it relates to the Watchtower itself, but it's part of a story about the movement of religion in the earlier part of the 1800's in the United States. These earlier relatives of mine were the first people to bring the French Huguenot religion up to New York (from around Charleston, South Carolina). There are still a couple of Crispell cousins in Wallkill, and even a Crispell School there, however, many of the Crispell family settled on the Wallkill River where the settlement was called New Paltz. I might have mentioned once before that an elderly woman at the Historical Society in New Paltz once dug an old family Bible out of a vault for me that had Dutch relatives listed, going back to the 1600s. (The French and the German and the Dutch began intermarrying in the 1800's here in this area.)
     
  21. Like
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from SuzA in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    People want so badly to be followers of men. “I don’t care what reasoning has been done or what counsel has been given. I want to know what you think.” 
    Elders resist this because they are not trying to make their very own disciples. 
    “For when one says, “I belong to Paul,” but another says, “I to A·polʹlos,” are you not acting like mere men? 5 What, then, is A·polʹlos? Yes, what is Paul? Ministers through whom you became believers, just as the Lord granted each one.  6 I planted, A·polʹlos watered, but God kept making it grow,  7 so that neither is the one who plants anything nor is the one who waters, but God who makes it grow.”
  22. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    People want so badly to be followers of men. “I don’t care what reasoning has been done or what counsel has been given. I want to know what you think.” 
    Elders resist this because they are not trying to make their very own disciples. 
    “For when one says, “I belong to Paul,” but another says, “I to A·polʹlos,” are you not acting like mere men? 5 What, then, is A·polʹlos? Yes, what is Paul? Ministers through whom you became believers, just as the Lord granted each one.  6 I planted, A·polʹlos watered, but God kept making it grow,  7 so that neither is the one who plants anything nor is the one who waters, but God who makes it grow.”
  23. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Arauna in I have barely seen a more stupid chart in my life   
    This is always the case in any paper about anything. Everyone selects point of support. Nobody selects points that undermine their premise. I see no reason to spin it as though it were some sort of conspiracy. There is scarcely anyone who does not do it.
    ”And when they persecute you in one town, see if you can find out what you are doing wrong so as to get them so riled up.” I don’t think so.
    ”And when you see the sun and the moon and the stars acting up, say, ‘There’s probably nothing to it.’”  No.
  24. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley reacted to Space Merchant in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    Rook has done it before. He's part of the family pretty much.
  25. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    He made it all public previously.
    These are your words, not mine. I am not casting him anywhere. I am very glad to see he re-evaluating some choices he has made so that Nobody Else does.
    I do. He doesn’t buy into your claptrap that you can remain close to Jehovah while being at serious odds with his earthly organization. Thinking hit the nail on the head—he is REAL. If you are bringing your gift to the altar and you recall that your brother has something against you due to the outrageous things you have said, first make peace with your brother, and then offer up your gift. I imagine that this is what he is doing now.
     
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