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TrueTomHarley

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  1. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley reacted to Arauna in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    Yes, this system has become so evil/vile and full of corruption that one cannot even trust governments to do the right thing any longer. The theatrical  divisions in government is an indication of what is going on below the unseen surface. 
    True justice is something from the past.  This is how I really see this  worldly governmental system at present. There are many good people still left but they are helpless to do anything any longer because the system is now rigged with powerful 'wicked' people against them in all the right places - on top.
    Children are not safe in the child care system any longer where large pockets of child trafficking has been covered up and child syndicates have now become international. Private companies and criminal gangs have gained control of the child care system in some areas and can pick from  the vulnerable children still in their parent's care. Not the entire child care system is wicked but pockets exist where governors or high officials close him are in on the game. I have listened to a few hair- raising stories while cooking.
    Jeffrey Epstein's story is one of more..... where airplanes are used to transport young children around and they end up visiting private homes and parties etc.....pizza gate stories surface. ......and it is prevalent in the top echelons of society.  Both UK and USA involved. Part of Epsteins black book was released  (I cannot remember if it was by hackers) and top British officials were included.  Britain it has a long history of child sex, with PM Ted Heath one of them, royals, child TV presenters etc.
    Prince Andrew was grilled because a few photos of him surfaced in the tabloids but the Clinton's are untouchable. Saw a new photo of mr Clinton recently with a young girl of Epsteins trafficked group. Absolutely nothing in the press afterwards. 
    True investigative reporters and true whistleblowers end up dead in USA and UK and it is ruled a suicide.  Cover-up is all over. Watched a 60 minute recently where people spoke of one corroner always called out in in top cases. His history of false death reports was exposed. He was working with top officials.
    Corruption in  law enforcement is high. I know of several policemen who ended up dead. Listened to one (fbi/cia -i forgot) who fled to Moscow.... to save his life and spoke about the corruption high up.... no longer safe to be a real (not fake) whistleblower.
    Listened to a soldier's story recently  where she said she was moved to a new base  that was weird. The rules were different. She was targeted because she asked questions. She said money was disappearing from the ledgers.  Inadvertently by photocopying  the ledgers and proving financial  corruption ........she uncovered a child sex ring - trafficking. ......  She realised higher people were involved in the money scam when she was targeted after she went whistleblowing to higher officials ....but not in her wildest dreams did she suspect that  children were involved..... That only came out in the full investigation..... She had appealed to central government....as a last resort. She heard of a death at the base - a suicide before she came. She was suspicious.   True whistleblowers are in danger now .......because perpetrators are protected by powerful people.
    This is why I think - the water on the top of this worldly system looks acceptable (it has the appearance that it is not yet a complete lunatic asylum)  but when one peers one centimeter below the surface -  the world has become  a paranna tank.  First world countries, where a lot of money can be made, is now the same as third world countries, totally corrupt.  Child trafficking is up there with drugs in revenue.
    Citizens are no longer protected. Daily people are knived to death in Europe..... officials know what is the problem is but refuse to acknowledge it or write about it in the press. It is a taboo subject. People shout the extremist words when killing Jews or infidels.... but the officials "still have to determine the reason".  With child trafficking it has become the same scenario. One investigative organization blames the other for not doing a good job. America has something like 18 organizations similar to FBI and they all pass the buck to one another when bad things do manage to surface....
    Brave whistleblowers in the child care system are harrassed by law and even lose their homes, and put into institutions under false names so family members cannot find them.  I listened to a former child service official's story  a while back - what they did to her in UK was inconceivable. 
    In Ireland and England I have heard of investigative reporters ending up dead.  I cant remember all the names but I do know one thing - the system is rotten to the core and good people or children  no longer have guaranteed protection.  The system is corrupt and you can inadvertantly step on someones toes.  By ending up in the child care system, the child may face a worse ordeal.
     Epsteins madam (who trained the young girls) and the other names in the black book - none have been brought to justice. The FBI has all the tapes he used to blackmail high officials. After Epstein's  convenient death it all died down.  It seems the entire bunch were connected to CIA, MI 5 and Mossad .....he was an asset of these organizations.... and part of the MKUltra type experiments on children. 
    Do any of you know about MKULTRA?  Secret experiments by the US government on children?  To see what abuse does to them ?  MKULTRA is just one of many such projects where research psychiatrists were part of the problem....MI5 /6 and CIA,are linked....... but that is another subject. 
    Do not be misled.  This world system is no longer based on the older biblical values. It is not what we believe it to be any longer.  
    I try to stay close to jehovah and stay out of the world as much as possible.  I do believe to be informed....so I can warn friends and walk wisely..... but I want nothing to do with the world's filth.  The individuals who bring dishonor on Jehovahs name - well the bible tells us about the outcome of those who live double lives.
    The law is the law - unmerciful, not compassionate, especially if you are poor or uninfluential.. .  If you are rich....or influential.....other laws apply - one can get away with more than murder..... 
    Last note:  the secret investigative  organizations have become  so powerful. They claim anything as 'priviledged information'.   Consequently,  pockets within CIA have turned rogue and protect each other. They hide behind the statutes which protect their information.  
    Organizations such as' judicial watch'  have a hard time to get information out of them.   They have to sue by law to get information they are entitled to. Then after two years (the limit to receive requested information)  they take them to court and can only  get "redacted" information. 
    The corruption in some of these organizations is high because it has allowed powerful enclaves to develop within the military industrial complex and the secret investigative organizations. These people are like mafia - a law unto themselves.
    Like Rome, the rot from within has been USA's downfall.  USA will soon no longer be the power it has been in the past.... then the eighth government will have power for a short time.....(as the bible indicates)  and the king of the north will control the wealth.   Daniel 11 from verse 40. These new governments will claim that their digital surveillance systems will lessen crime but it will become a highly controlled environment where those with power have full say (total power) over the ordinary   people's lives.
    No doubt, child trafficking will still go on but governments will know all about it. I read recently that a 9 month baby fetus is worth 40,000 dollars.  I have no doubt that this is the reason behind the new laws.  China has been doing this since it's one child policy..... picking up pregnant women just before giving birth to a second child, removing the baby and sterilizing the parent and then just throwing the mother out anywhere on the street.  Listened to an interview made in China in secret. 
     
     
  2. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from b4ucuhear in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    I have called them “malcontents” because I don’t want to get @admin going again. Remember how he yelled at us all, saying that the rest of the world has moved on and nobody cares if people in the JW world are crying ‘apostate’ at each other and they think we’re all nuts? Who wants to risk that tirade again?
    He has a point. It does have to ring a little crazy to anyone else. Will he accept my explanation that the early Christians had apostates as virulent—so virulent that two entire chapters of the Bible are devoted to them (2 Peter 2, Jude 1) and there is no NT writer that does not come to grips with them? I wouldn’t hold my breath.
    From the meta-data of ‘TrueTom vs the Apostates!’—
    No New Testament writer fails to deal with then-rampant apostasy—a movement which finds its counterpart today. Two Bible chapters are entirely dedicated to it. Apostates of that time would “despise authority.” How could that become a problem unless there was authority? They loved “lawlessness.” How could that become a problem unless there was law? They favored acts of “brazen conduct,” had “eyes full of adultery,” and were “unable to desist from sin.” How could that become a problem unless there was someone to tell them that they could not carry on in that way? Not only is the nature of apostates revealed in the above Bible verses, but also the nature of the Christian organization. 
    Any faith too bland to have quality apostates—I am almost proud of ours—is too bland to be given the time of day. They validate us. The more “respectable” churches where anything goes—what would people apostatize from?
    But the general audience may weary of the term “apostate.” So I say “malcontent,” “detractor,” “grumbler.” It’s just to throw Admin off the track. Because you know and I know the song these “malcontents” sing at their secret gatherings—the Queen song: 
    “We’re the apostates, my friends
    And we'll keep on fighting 'til the end
    We’re the apostates
    We’re the apostates
    No way we’re losers
    'Cause we’re the apostates of the world.”
  3. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from b4ucuhear in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    How, exactly, does $20 million for the plaintiff repair her trauma?
    How, exactly, does $10 million for the lawyer repair that victim’s trauma?
    The world is very eager to punish with regard to child sexual abuse, but does it actually do anything to prevent it? 
  4. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from b4ucuhear in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    When you promise your clients the moon and deliver goose eggs, you’ve got to say something. What do you think he is going to say? “I lost because I’m a crummy lawyer?”
    It’s why you don’t apologize for anything. It will be framed as a confession. 
  5. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from b4ucuhear in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    Here is the way to look at events in Montana: I wrote it up this morning and posted on my blog. Reproduced here:
    After the multi-million dollar verdict against Jehovah’s Witnesses in Montana was reversed, I visited the Witness-bashing website to see how they were taking it. They were not happy. However, the ones who knew law were analytical.
    “This isn’t the fault of the courts,” one said. “It’s the fault of the Montana law as written. Courts must follow law or risk reversal on appeal. This case was never going to be ultimately won. The law was way too clear on the matter.”
    Another: “Montana followed the law. It’s that simple and of course Watchtower followed the law...”
    Yet another: “The case never should have been started, as the law clearly backed JW’s actions. It never had a chance of surviving appeal.”
    They sure didn’t talk that way after the first trial. Some of their cohorts wanted to rub my nose—line by line—through that first transcript. ‘The court found your people guilty, TrueTom! Why would they do that unless they had broke the law—they who say they adhere to the law!’ I didn’t respond because I am not a lawyer that would try to unravel their affairs. Moreover, courts, while they may represent the best human justice available, are clearly not above bias from pre-existing philosophical leanings—if they were confirming a Supreme Court Justice would take ten minutes. ‘Wait until the fat lady sings,’ was my attitude. When she did, it was to throw out the judgement of the skinny lady.
    Not all were so retrospective after that reversal. “F**k the Montana Supreme Court!” was the outraged complaint woven throughout the thread, with some accusing those seven justices (the reversal was 7-0) of being enablers themselves! Child sexual abuse is the most white-hot topic of all and calm heads rarely prevail. One of them muttered at how they must be “celebrating this victory” at Watchtower HQ. But they showed no sign of it. The Witness attorney summed up events: “There are no winners in a case involving child abuse. ‘No child should ever be subjected to such a debased crime....Tragically, it happens, and when it does Jehovah's Witnesses follow the law. This is what the Montana Supreme Court has established.’” Obviously if one is on the hook for several million dollars and then no longer is, they will not mourn over it. But the focus was kept on the victim, as it should have been. Ideally, she gets full justice from the perpetrator directly responsible.
    The gold standard in matters of child sexual abuse is to “go beyond the law.” It is a crazy expectation and I can think of no parallels to it. The expectation is found in a remark already presented, but in truncated form. The full remark was: “Montana followed the law. It’s that simple and of course Watchtower followed the law, rather than just simply reporting child abuse like a good Christian organization.”
    If the gold standard regarding child abuse is to “go beyond the law” then MAKE that the law! That’s what law is for! Three times before the ARC Geoffrey Jackson pleaded for such a change—it would make his job “so much easier.” ‘Going beyond the law’ is surely to trigger the wrath of those who, not unreasonably, expect you to abide by the law! Change the law and everyone is happy.
    As though on cue, a report surfaced regarding another faith. An Oregon woman has filed a lawsuit for $9 million against the Mormon church because they DID report a confidentially disclosed sexual abuse of a minor. “Clergy are not required to report known or suspected child abuse if the knowledge results from a congregation member's confidential communication or confession and if the person making the statement does not consent to disclosure," Justice Beth Baker wrote in the Montana Supreme Court opinion. It is a statement that will clearly help the Oregon woman, but would not if it were not the law. Change the law if you are really serious about nabbing pedophiles.
    The way everything unfolded in Montana pretty well accords with my initial assessment. So great is the world”s frustration at not being able to make a dent in the child sexual abuse pandemic that the first court chose to ignore law in pursuit of that end. It might well be combined with some religious bias, but I would not hang my hat on the latter—outrage over child sexual abuse is sufficient in itself. The Witness organization did follow law, as the Supreme Count validated, but the first court reinterpreted law and made it retroactive to make it seem that they did not. I wrote about it here:
    Change the law! Why cannot that be done? If Watchtower wants to change a policy, they can do it overnight and have it implemented worldwide within the week. It is the basket-case eternally squabbling, turf-guarding, plethora of competing jurisdictions that cause many Witnesses to become Witnesses in the first place—they see how hopeless it is with human governments.
    Ones who want to bring the Watchtower down on the pretext of child sexual abuse, such as those who predominate at the Witness bashing site, are hardly out of bullets, but they are continually frustrated. Their efforts to put Witness stories above all others gains little traction because the pattern elsewhere is that the leaders of organizations, religious or otherwise, are the abusers themselves, something rarely true with the Witness organization, and also that child sexual abuse appears to be the primary export of the planet, crowding out stories of “lesser” significance. With Watchtower (as in Montana) the situation is typically that of abuse within a family or step-family and Witness leaders come under the gun for evoking law and not reporting it, leaving that up to the persons involved—sometimes they do but often they don’t. History may well judge that harshly, but it does not hold a candle to leaders actually committing the abuse themselves. The class action suit in Quebec that I wrote about was similarly dismissed. Moreover, that contributing perception—that it is a disgrace to call attention to child sexual abuse—has been firmly put to rest among Witnesses.
    The Epstein joke making the rounds is: “If you were surprised at Jeff Epstein committing suicide, just think how surprised he must have been!” Of course. With prison security protocol breaking down “at every level” and with 60 Minutes concluding that his injuries far suggest homicide over suicide, the conclusion that he was put to sleep by powerful interests to protect other pedophiles will never be squashed. People are naive, but not that naive. 
    A DisneyLand executive was recently sentenced for pedophile offenses, and Erin Elizabeth of HealthNutNews, who has lived in the area, says it happens all the time. The point is, there is no place where child sexual abuse is not, but participants on the anti-JW site see it in only one place—a place where its intensity pales next to places where leaders are the abusers, not just ones trying to stem it who may have done so clumsily.
    Thirty years into all-out war against child sexual abuse and barely a dent has been made! For my money, the JW organization is the most proactive of all, gathering every single member on earth to consider detailed scenarios in which child abuse might happen—if there are sleepovers, if there are tickling sessions, if there are unsupervised trips to the rest room, if someone, even a relative, shows unusual interest in your child, and so forth—so that parents, the obvious first line of defense, can be on the alert. This was done at the 2017 Regional Conventions, which were held globally.
    It is the common and accepted legal practice to go as high up on the food chain as possible with regard to any lawsuit—everyone knows this and judges it an unremarkable fact of life. “Knew or should have known” is the legal expression that carries the day and effectively amounts to a tax on the common person. Governments raise taxes. Businesses raise prices. When I hear that my neighbor’s lawyer secured him millions of dollars for his auto accident, I rejoice with him—then I open my insurance premium bill.
    As people become ever more debased, just where does this end? Women on airlines are reporting sexual abuse. Even rape has been reported, and with passengers being packed in like sardines, attendants expected to monitor this are caught dumbfounded. Do they “know or should have known?” In an increasingly depraved world, your guess is as good as mine.
    As to sentiment on the Witness-bashing website? Look, whenever one discards a scenario in which there is discipline for one in which there is not, it will be like releasing a compressed spring—it rebounds wildly, delirious with its newfound freedom, caring not where it goes. This will be true when one leaves behind the school, the military, or the job. It will especially be true if one quit or was expelled from that institution—and that is the case of most on the anti-JW site. Many of them have come out as gay. Witnesses may not gay-bash as do some evangelicals, some of whom froth on the subject and tirelessly prod legislators to make it hot for gays in general society—Witnesses don’t do that—still, there is no place for gay relations within the Witness organization—and that hardly endears them to former members who have gone that way. There is a plain backdrop of ‘settling the score’ to be detected in many posts. It is anything but easy to hold the line on Bible morality in a quickly changing world.
  6. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Arauna in Haiti Ten Years Later—Is Nothing Fixed?   
    Ten years to the day after Haiti suffered a magnitude 7 earthquake that killed 250,000, CBS News sent Jeff Glor to Port au Prince to report on progress. There wasn’t any—or at least, it didn’t seem that way.
    “Mass protests, gang violence, rampant political corruption...jobs are scarce,” was his glum assessment. 80 million dollars had immediately after the quake been allocated to rebuild the hospital, and CBS showed the unfinished building standing empty. As to the devastation of the old hospital—the only hospital in town? It “reeks of raw sewage, piles of trash are everywhere.” 
    “Sorry, Buddy, I’m sorry,” a shaken Jeff Glor murmurs, stroking the head of a writhing infant unable to relieve himself. “I can’t imagine the pain he’s in right now,” he says to his parent.
    Read the report of how the beacon of relief looked to by humanists ten years ago raised half a billion dollars in the wake of the earthquake—and squandered almost all of it: here
    Yes, but surely ten years later, mighty progress has been made. Nope. Doesn’t seem so. In contrast, disaster relief teams organized by the Coordinator’s Committee of the Jehovah’s Witnesses’s Governing Body, quickly attended to physical needs of members back then. Not only physical needs, but the more important spiritual needs, for it is widely recognized that hope is what people need at such time at least as much as physical relief. 
    An excerpt from Tom Irregardless and Me: 
    In contrast, the Red Cross, America’s ‘charity of choice,’ succeeded in raising half a billion dollars after a 7.0 magnitude earthquake struck Haiti in January 2010. Five years later, ProPublica and NPR jointly reported that they had astonishingly little to show for it; “It’s difficult to know where it all went,” they wrote. Search through their June 3, 2015 report and read the devastating consequences of not having Bible education.
    Read how the ones in charge couldn’t speak the native languages and often skipped community meetings on that account. Read how some disrespected the local workers. Read how Washington headquarters micromanaged everything, how shifting senior management slowed progress to a crawl, how leaders with “absolutely no expertise” wielded authority. Read about hand-washing campaigns launched with huge fanfare to people who had no access to soap or water. Read about the 130,000 claimed to have been housed, but who actually just attended a seminar on how to fix their own homes, received temporary rental assistance or provisional shelters that started to disintegrate after three to five years. And be fair to the Red Cross: Read their response. Read it all. Were it not so tragic, it would be laughable. It was all so preventable. All that was needed was Bible education. Jehovah’s Witnesses have it. They value it. They didn’t suffer from the Red Cross’s problems.
    You should be fair to the Red Cross - don’t pile on just because the herd does. Haiti is a spectacular train wreck for them, but probably they do better elsewhere. Doubtless they have fine people doing their best. No one alleges theft. They offer an explanation for their performance. Read it. Essentially, they had problems because they didn’t know what they were doing: they didn’t mesh with the locals, they didn’t understand the local laws. Cut them slack on these things, if you like, but also note that such problems would never occur in Jehovah’s organization, where local people are highly valued, if not placed in charge.
    Author Bill Underwood in the now defunct examinier.com compared the disaster relief efforts of several religious organizations. Most issued urgent appeals for money. Most provided only sketchy details as to what they would do with those monies. But when it came to the Watchtower:
    Well, that was refreshing. I went to watchtower.org and searched it for references to money, donations, charity. All I found were Watchtower articles such as ‘Is money you master or your servant?’ Try as I might, there was no way to donate any money to the organization, nor any request for donations. The only mention of money I found, in connection with Haiti, was in a public news release at jw-media.org entitled “Witnesses’ relief efforts well under way for victims of earthquake in Haiti.” A single line at the bottom read, ‘The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses is caring for these expenses by utilizing funds donated to the Witnesses’ worldwide work.’
    ....At the home of Victor Vomidog, an alarm panel light pulsed red. Victor read the incoming feed. It was serious. Someone was saying nice things about Jehovah’s Witnesses. Instantly, he swung into action. There was not a moment to lose. He opened his door and whistled. The media came running. “Witnesses are selfish!” he cried. “They only think of themselves! Why don’t they help everyone? Why do they just do their own people?” That evening, media ran the headline: “WHY DON’T THEY HELP EVERYONE?”
    But they had asked the wrong question. The headline they should have run, but didn’t, because they didn’t want to deal with the answer, was: “WHY AREN’T OTHERS DOING THE SAME?” The answer to the first question is obvious: Witness efforts consist of volunteers using their vacation time. Just how much time is the boss going to grant?
    So do it yourself, Victor! Organize your own new chums! Or send your money to some mega-agency where they think Bible education is for fools. Be content to see monies frittered away on salaries, hotels, travel, retirement, health care benefits, and God knows what else! Be content to see much of what remains squandered! It’s the best you can do - embrace it! Or at least shut up about the one organization that has its act together.
    The obvious solution, when it comes to disaster relief, is for others to do as we do. Why have they not? There are hundreds of religions. There are atheists…aren’t you tight with Sam now, Victor? Organize them, why don’t you? They all claim to be unGod’s gift to humankind. Surely they can see human suffering. Why don’t they step up to the plate themselves?
    They can’t. They are vested in a selfish model that runs a selfish world. Let them become Jehovah’s Witnesses and benefit from the Bible education overseen by the Governing Body, Plato’s and Sider’s dream brought to life. But if they stay where they are, they must look to their own organization or lack thereof. There’s no excuse that they should not be able to copy us. They have far more resources to draw upon. We’re not big enough to do everyone for free, and we don’t know how to run a for-pay model; we’ve no experience in that. Instead, other groups must learn how to put love into action, as we did long ago.
    C’mon, Victor! If all the world needs is to ‘come together,’ then see to it! We don’t know how to do that. People without Bible education tend not to get along. You make them do it! You don’t want to, or can’t, do large-scale relief, yet you want to shoot down those who do! What a liar!
    ...
    CBS News and Jeff Glor is determined to find a silver lining in this total failure uncovered during his 2020 visit. He does find one—but it is not in Port au Prince, which is still apparently a lost cause, despite humanists throwing everything they have at it.
    “But take  a trip outside the capitol and you find a remarkable place that many people doubted could ever exist in this country.” Jeff reports of St Boniface hospital, a remarkable (for Haiti) institution run by Health Equity International, caring for needs that cannot be cared for anywhere else in the country, it’s director says. People travel hundreds of miles to get there. It was started in 1983, and thus has nothing to do with human efforts in response to the 2010 devastation, but it clearing has found a place since then.
    No bad things will be said about Health Equity International. Only good things. It represents dedication at its best. Still, in the context of the greater picture....well—you must “take a trip outside the capitol” to find it—something, unless I am very wrong, that the majority of residents will not be able to do. Inside the capitol—where everyone is—there appears scant improvement in 2010, in fact, worse than scant improvement, for there were not “mass protests,” prior to the quake, and probably “gang violence” was not as bad. “Rampant political corruption” probably was, but that is business as usual in large portions of the world. 
    Fix it, you humanists. Fix it, you anti-cultists. Fix it, you “evidence-based” atheists. Fix it, @Srecko Sostar. Fix it, @Witness. Fix it, @4Jah2me—your solution is at least ten years away and people need relief now! Fix it—all or any of you. Or at least lay off on deriding JWs, since your people certainly aren’t rising to the occasion.
  7. Downvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    I have called them “malcontents” because I don’t want to get @admin going again. Remember how he yelled at us all, saying that the rest of the world has moved on and nobody cares if people in the JW world are crying ‘apostate’ at each other and they think we’re all nuts? Who wants to risk that tirade again?
    He has a point. It does have to ring a little crazy to anyone else. Will he accept my explanation that the early Christians had apostates as virulent—so virulent that two entire chapters of the Bible are devoted to them (2 Peter 2, Jude 1) and there is no NT writer that does not come to grips with them? I wouldn’t hold my breath.
    From the meta-data of ‘TrueTom vs the Apostates!’—
    No New Testament writer fails to deal with then-rampant apostasy—a movement which finds its counterpart today. Two Bible chapters are entirely dedicated to it. Apostates of that time would “despise authority.” How could that become a problem unless there was authority? They loved “lawlessness.” How could that become a problem unless there was law? They favored acts of “brazen conduct,” had “eyes full of adultery,” and were “unable to desist from sin.” How could that become a problem unless there was someone to tell them that they could not carry on in that way? Not only is the nature of apostates revealed in the above Bible verses, but also the nature of the Christian organization. 
    Any faith too bland to have quality apostates—I am almost proud of ours—is too bland to be given the time of day. They validate us. The more “respectable” churches where anything goes—what would people apostatize from?
    But the general audience may weary of the term “apostate.” So I say “malcontent,” “detractor,” “grumbler.” It’s just to throw Admin off the track. Because you know and I know the song these “malcontents” sing at their secret gatherings—the Queen song: 
    “We’re the apostates, my friends
    And we'll keep on fighting 'til the end
    We’re the apostates
    We’re the apostates
    No way we’re losers
    'Cause we’re the apostates of the world.”
  8. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Haiti Ten Years Later—Is Nothing Fixed?   
    Is it? I suppose it is. But I am human, too. With you and others so eager to tear down what is practically the sole beacon of hope on that island, I was not able to resist. Forgive me.
  9. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from b4ucuhear in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    Not all lawyers.
    I know some who do it all the time.
    They only “play dirty” in your eyes because they beat your side.
    Exactly. Look, if someone offered me $20 million (or bought enough of my books to total that amount—hint, hint) I would take it in a heartbeat if there were no strings attached. But the “strings attached” in this instance is kicking the organization in the teeth which is likely more proactive than anyone in actually preventing child sexual abuse.
  10. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Haiti Ten Years Later—Is Nothing Fixed?   
    Ten years to the day after Haiti suffered a magnitude 7 earthquake that killed 250,000, CBS News sent Jeff Glor to Port au Prince to report on progress. There wasn’t any—or at least, it didn’t seem that way.
    “Mass protests, gang violence, rampant political corruption...jobs are scarce,” was his glum assessment. 80 million dollars had immediately after the quake been allocated to rebuild the hospital, and CBS showed the unfinished building standing empty. As to the devastation of the old hospital—the only hospital in town? It “reeks of raw sewage, piles of trash are everywhere.” 
    “Sorry, Buddy, I’m sorry,” a shaken Jeff Glor murmurs, stroking the head of a writhing infant unable to relieve himself. “I can’t imagine the pain he’s in right now,” he says to his parent.
    Read the report of how the beacon of relief looked to by humanists ten years ago raised half a billion dollars in the wake of the earthquake—and squandered almost all of it: here
    Yes, but surely ten years later, mighty progress has been made. Nope. Doesn’t seem so. In contrast, disaster relief teams organized by the Coordinator’s Committee of the Jehovah’s Witnesses’s Governing Body, quickly attended to physical needs of members back then. Not only physical needs, but the more important spiritual needs, for it is widely recognized that hope is what people need at such time at least as much as physical relief. 
    An excerpt from Tom Irregardless and Me: 
    In contrast, the Red Cross, America’s ‘charity of choice,’ succeeded in raising half a billion dollars after a 7.0 magnitude earthquake struck Haiti in January 2010. Five years later, ProPublica and NPR jointly reported that they had astonishingly little to show for it; “It’s difficult to know where it all went,” they wrote. Search through their June 3, 2015 report and read the devastating consequences of not having Bible education.
    Read how the ones in charge couldn’t speak the native languages and often skipped community meetings on that account. Read how some disrespected the local workers. Read how Washington headquarters micromanaged everything, how shifting senior management slowed progress to a crawl, how leaders with “absolutely no expertise” wielded authority. Read about hand-washing campaigns launched with huge fanfare to people who had no access to soap or water. Read about the 130,000 claimed to have been housed, but who actually just attended a seminar on how to fix their own homes, received temporary rental assistance or provisional shelters that started to disintegrate after three to five years. And be fair to the Red Cross: Read their response. Read it all. Were it not so tragic, it would be laughable. It was all so preventable. All that was needed was Bible education. Jehovah’s Witnesses have it. They value it. They didn’t suffer from the Red Cross’s problems.
    You should be fair to the Red Cross - don’t pile on just because the herd does. Haiti is a spectacular train wreck for them, but probably they do better elsewhere. Doubtless they have fine people doing their best. No one alleges theft. They offer an explanation for their performance. Read it. Essentially, they had problems because they didn’t know what they were doing: they didn’t mesh with the locals, they didn’t understand the local laws. Cut them slack on these things, if you like, but also note that such problems would never occur in Jehovah’s organization, where local people are highly valued, if not placed in charge.
    Author Bill Underwood in the now defunct examinier.com compared the disaster relief efforts of several religious organizations. Most issued urgent appeals for money. Most provided only sketchy details as to what they would do with those monies. But when it came to the Watchtower:
    Well, that was refreshing. I went to watchtower.org and searched it for references to money, donations, charity. All I found were Watchtower articles such as ‘Is money you master or your servant?’ Try as I might, there was no way to donate any money to the organization, nor any request for donations. The only mention of money I found, in connection with Haiti, was in a public news release at jw-media.org entitled “Witnesses’ relief efforts well under way for victims of earthquake in Haiti.” A single line at the bottom read, ‘The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses is caring for these expenses by utilizing funds donated to the Witnesses’ worldwide work.’
    ....At the home of Victor Vomidog, an alarm panel light pulsed red. Victor read the incoming feed. It was serious. Someone was saying nice things about Jehovah’s Witnesses. Instantly, he swung into action. There was not a moment to lose. He opened his door and whistled. The media came running. “Witnesses are selfish!” he cried. “They only think of themselves! Why don’t they help everyone? Why do they just do their own people?” That evening, media ran the headline: “WHY DON’T THEY HELP EVERYONE?”
    But they had asked the wrong question. The headline they should have run, but didn’t, because they didn’t want to deal with the answer, was: “WHY AREN’T OTHERS DOING THE SAME?” The answer to the first question is obvious: Witness efforts consist of volunteers using their vacation time. Just how much time is the boss going to grant?
    So do it yourself, Victor! Organize your own new chums! Or send your money to some mega-agency where they think Bible education is for fools. Be content to see monies frittered away on salaries, hotels, travel, retirement, health care benefits, and God knows what else! Be content to see much of what remains squandered! It’s the best you can do - embrace it! Or at least shut up about the one organization that has its act together.
    The obvious solution, when it comes to disaster relief, is for others to do as we do. Why have they not? There are hundreds of religions. There are atheists…aren’t you tight with Sam now, Victor? Organize them, why don’t you? They all claim to be unGod’s gift to humankind. Surely they can see human suffering. Why don’t they step up to the plate themselves?
    They can’t. They are vested in a selfish model that runs a selfish world. Let them become Jehovah’s Witnesses and benefit from the Bible education overseen by the Governing Body, Plato’s and Sider’s dream brought to life. But if they stay where they are, they must look to their own organization or lack thereof. There’s no excuse that they should not be able to copy us. They have far more resources to draw upon. We’re not big enough to do everyone for free, and we don’t know how to run a for-pay model; we’ve no experience in that. Instead, other groups must learn how to put love into action, as we did long ago.
    C’mon, Victor! If all the world needs is to ‘come together,’ then see to it! We don’t know how to do that. People without Bible education tend not to get along. You make them do it! You don’t want to, or can’t, do large-scale relief, yet you want to shoot down those who do! What a liar!
    ...
    CBS News and Jeff Glor is determined to find a silver lining in this total failure uncovered during his 2020 visit. He does find one—but it is not in Port au Prince, which is still apparently a lost cause, despite humanists throwing everything they have at it.
    “But take  a trip outside the capitol and you find a remarkable place that many people doubted could ever exist in this country.” Jeff reports of St Boniface hospital, a remarkable (for Haiti) institution run by Health Equity International, caring for needs that cannot be cared for anywhere else in the country, it’s director says. People travel hundreds of miles to get there. It was started in 1983, and thus has nothing to do with human efforts in response to the 2010 devastation, but it clearing has found a place since then.
    No bad things will be said about Health Equity International. Only good things. It represents dedication at its best. Still, in the context of the greater picture....well—you must “take a trip outside the capitol” to find it—something, unless I am very wrong, that the majority of residents will not be able to do. Inside the capitol—where everyone is—there appears scant improvement in 2010, in fact, worse than scant improvement, for there were not “mass protests,” prior to the quake, and probably “gang violence” was not as bad. “Rampant political corruption” probably was, but that is business as usual in large portions of the world. 
    Fix it, you humanists. Fix it, you anti-cultists. Fix it, you “evidence-based” atheists. Fix it, @Srecko Sostar. Fix it, @Witness. Fix it, @4Jah2me—your solution is at least ten years away and people need relief now! Fix it—all or any of you. Or at least lay off on deriding JWs, since your people certainly aren’t rising to the occasion.
  11. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Arauna in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    When you promise your clients the moon and deliver goose eggs, you’ve got to say something. What do you think he is going to say? “I lost because I’m a crummy lawyer?”
    It’s why you don’t apologize for anything. It will be framed as a confession. 
  12. Downvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    When you promise your clients the moon and deliver goose eggs, you’ve got to say something. What do you think he is going to say? “I lost because I’m a crummy lawyer?”
    It’s why you don’t apologize for anything. It will be framed as a confession. 
  13. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    Not everything in life is dependent upon “access to files.” Sometimes looking at what is right in front of your nose is enough.
    Montana is typical of other CSA Witness cases—no involvement whatsoever of elders other than their role of persons who did not report. Other organizations you do not hear of CSA unless it is one of the leaders arrested for it. Other than a rotter in San Diego, are there any such cases with JWs?
    As it turns out, I have it on excellent authority that each and every person you have interacted with over the past year is a disgusting pervert. How do I know that? Easy. It is in the files that are hidden from me!
  14. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Arauna in I'm worried about a 'brother' recently reinstated spending too much time with my grandchildren   
    This is apocryphal but I think true, since there are not many degrees of separation:
    Many years ago waiting for the pioneer meeting to get underway, some of us young pioneers started commenting on nightmare scenarios—like witnessing to super-patriot John Wayne. He probably would sic his Rottweilers on us!
    The circuit overseer interjected that it was not so. In a circuit he had once served, a brother had called upon John Wayne, who could not have been more kind or more respectful, even saying that he knew that what they had was true, but that he would never be able to live up to it.
    Now (and this is my speculation years later) where could he have gotten such a good impression of Jehovah’s Witnesses?
    ”I played in a movie called Ring of Fear …..This was where I got the Jag. The guy wrote and directed the picture had problems, but John Wayne who produced it, never gave up on his friends. Duke was having a bad time, going through a divorce, and they needed to fix the script. So they're thinking who could do it, and someone says, Spillane's a writer, he could do it. Now I'm playing ME in the picture, for pete's sake. They called me up in Newburgh on Wednesday, I'm already back home across the country, and said come back and fix it. So I took my Wagner records, flew West, and worked Friday, Saturday, Sunday. They set me up in a beautiful hotel suite, and I worked. …..And they wanta pay me for the script but I won't take nothing for that, it was a favour. But Duke says, 'he was looking at those Jags in the lot next to the Cock and Bull'. One night, I'm back in Newburgh, it's snowing, and out in front of my house is this beautiful Jag with a red ribbon around it, and a note that says 'Thanks, Duke'.” - Mickey Spillane
     
     
  15. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley reacted to Anna in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    Confidentiality: "There are two views held by state courts regarding confidentiality as it pertains to clergy privilege. In two-thirds of the states, a communication is considered confidential if made privately and not intended for further disclosure except to other persons present for the purpose of the communication. In one-third of the states, privileged communication means a communication made in confidence only to the minister, with no third person present".
    Taken from: https://www.agfinancial.org/blog/bid103391church-liability-clergy-privilege-confidentiality-and-reporting/
     
  16. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    Here is the way to look at events in Montana: I wrote it up this morning and posted on my blog. Reproduced here:
    After the multi-million dollar verdict against Jehovah’s Witnesses in Montana was reversed, I visited the Witness-bashing website to see how they were taking it. They were not happy. However, the ones who knew law were analytical.
    “This isn’t the fault of the courts,” one said. “It’s the fault of the Montana law as written. Courts must follow law or risk reversal on appeal. This case was never going to be ultimately won. The law was way too clear on the matter.”
    Another: “Montana followed the law. It’s that simple and of course Watchtower followed the law...”
    Yet another: “The case never should have been started, as the law clearly backed JW’s actions. It never had a chance of surviving appeal.”
    They sure didn’t talk that way after the first trial. Some of their cohorts wanted to rub my nose—line by line—through that first transcript. ‘The court found your people guilty, TrueTom! Why would they do that unless they had broke the law—they who say they adhere to the law!’ I didn’t respond because I am not a lawyer that would try to unravel their affairs. Moreover, courts, while they may represent the best human justice available, are clearly not above bias from pre-existing philosophical leanings—if they were confirming a Supreme Court Justice would take ten minutes. ‘Wait until the fat lady sings,’ was my attitude. When she did, it was to throw out the judgement of the skinny lady.
    Not all were so retrospective after that reversal. “F**k the Montana Supreme Court!” was the outraged complaint woven throughout the thread, with some accusing those seven justices (the reversal was 7-0) of being enablers themselves! Child sexual abuse is the most white-hot topic of all and calm heads rarely prevail. One of them muttered at how they must be “celebrating this victory” at Watchtower HQ. But they showed no sign of it. The Witness attorney summed up events: “There are no winners in a case involving child abuse. ‘No child should ever be subjected to such a debased crime....Tragically, it happens, and when it does Jehovah's Witnesses follow the law. This is what the Montana Supreme Court has established.’” Obviously if one is on the hook for several million dollars and then no longer is, they will not mourn over it. But the focus was kept on the victim, as it should have been. Ideally, she gets full justice from the perpetrator directly responsible.
    The gold standard in matters of child sexual abuse is to “go beyond the law.” It is a crazy expectation and I can think of no parallels to it. The expectation is found in a remark already presented, but in truncated form. The full remark was: “Montana followed the law. It’s that simple and of course Watchtower followed the law, rather than just simply reporting child abuse like a good Christian organization.”
    If the gold standard regarding child abuse is to “go beyond the law” then MAKE that the law! That’s what law is for! Three times before the ARC Geoffrey Jackson pleaded for such a change—it would make his job “so much easier.” ‘Going beyond the law’ is surely to trigger the wrath of those who, not unreasonably, expect you to abide by the law! Change the law and everyone is happy.
    As though on cue, a report surfaced regarding another faith. An Oregon woman has filed a lawsuit for $9 million against the Mormon church because they DID report a confidentially disclosed sexual abuse of a minor. “Clergy are not required to report known or suspected child abuse if the knowledge results from a congregation member's confidential communication or confession and if the person making the statement does not consent to disclosure," Justice Beth Baker wrote in the Montana Supreme Court opinion. It is a statement that will clearly help the Oregon woman, but would not if it were not the law. Change the law if you are really serious about nabbing pedophiles.
    The way everything unfolded in Montana pretty well accords with my initial assessment. So great is the world”s frustration at not being able to make a dent in the child sexual abuse pandemic that the first court chose to ignore law in pursuit of that end. It might well be combined with some religious bias, but I would not hang my hat on the latter—outrage over child sexual abuse is sufficient in itself. The Witness organization did follow law, as the Supreme Count validated, but the first court reinterpreted law and made it retroactive to make it seem that they did not. I wrote about it here:
    Change the law! Why cannot that be done? If Watchtower wants to change a policy, they can do it overnight and have it implemented worldwide within the week. It is the basket-case eternally squabbling, turf-guarding, plethora of competing jurisdictions that cause many Witnesses to become Witnesses in the first place—they see how hopeless it is with human governments.
    Ones who want to bring the Watchtower down on the pretext of child sexual abuse, such as those who predominate at the Witness bashing site, are hardly out of bullets, but they are continually frustrated. Their efforts to put Witness stories above all others gains little traction because the pattern elsewhere is that the leaders of organizations, religious or otherwise, are the abusers themselves, something rarely true with the Witness organization, and also that child sexual abuse appears to be the primary export of the planet, crowding out stories of “lesser” significance. With Watchtower (as in Montana) the situation is typically that of abuse within a family or step-family and Witness leaders come under the gun for evoking law and not reporting it, leaving that up to the persons involved—sometimes they do but often they don’t. History may well judge that harshly, but it does not hold a candle to leaders actually committing the abuse themselves. The class action suit in Quebec that I wrote about was similarly dismissed. Moreover, that contributing perception—that it is a disgrace to call attention to child sexual abuse—has been firmly put to rest among Witnesses.
    The Epstein joke making the rounds is: “If you were surprised at Jeff Epstein committing suicide, just think how surprised he must have been!” Of course. With prison security protocol breaking down “at every level” and with 60 Minutes concluding that his injuries far suggest homicide over suicide, the conclusion that he was put to sleep by powerful interests to protect other pedophiles will never be squashed. People are naive, but not that naive. 
    A DisneyLand executive was recently sentenced for pedophile offenses, and Erin Elizabeth of HealthNutNews, who has lived in the area, says it happens all the time. The point is, there is no place where child sexual abuse is not, but participants on the anti-JW site see it in only one place—a place where its intensity pales next to places where leaders are the abusers, not just ones trying to stem it who may have done so clumsily.
    Thirty years into all-out war against child sexual abuse and barely a dent has been made! For my money, the JW organization is the most proactive of all, gathering every single member on earth to consider detailed scenarios in which child abuse might happen—if there are sleepovers, if there are tickling sessions, if there are unsupervised trips to the rest room, if someone, even a relative, shows unusual interest in your child, and so forth—so that parents, the obvious first line of defense, can be on the alert. This was done at the 2017 Regional Conventions, which were held globally.
    It is the common and accepted legal practice to go as high up on the food chain as possible with regard to any lawsuit—everyone knows this and judges it an unremarkable fact of life. “Knew or should have known” is the legal expression that carries the day and effectively amounts to a tax on the common person. Governments raise taxes. Businesses raise prices. When I hear that my neighbor’s lawyer secured him millions of dollars for his auto accident, I rejoice with him—then I open my insurance premium bill.
    As people become ever more debased, just where does this end? Women on airlines are reporting sexual abuse. Even rape has been reported, and with passengers being packed in like sardines, attendants expected to monitor this are caught dumbfounded. Do they “know or should have known?” In an increasingly depraved world, your guess is as good as mine.
    As to sentiment on the Witness-bashing website? Look, whenever one discards a scenario in which there is discipline for one in which there is not, it will be like releasing a compressed spring—it rebounds wildly, delirious with its newfound freedom, caring not where it goes. This will be true when one leaves behind the school, the military, or the job. It will especially be true if one quit or was expelled from that institution—and that is the case of most on the anti-JW site. Many of them have come out as gay. Witnesses may not gay-bash as do some evangelicals, some of whom froth on the subject and tirelessly prod legislators to make it hot for gays in general society—Witnesses don’t do that—still, there is no place for gay relations within the Witness organization—and that hardly endears them to former members who have gone that way. There is a plain backdrop of ‘settling the score’ to be detected in many posts. It is anything but easy to hold the line on Bible morality in a quickly changing world.
  17. Thanks
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    Not to be unkind, 4Jah, but you do burn out rather quickly. It would be nice if you did more than just search for bullet points for you ammo case.
  18. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from JW Insider in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    Not to be unkind, 4Jah, but you do burn out rather quickly. It would be nice if you did more than just search for bullet points for you ammo case.
  19. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from JW Insider in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    Here is the way to look at events in Montana: I wrote it up this morning and posted on my blog. Reproduced here:
    After the multi-million dollar verdict against Jehovah’s Witnesses in Montana was reversed, I visited the Witness-bashing website to see how they were taking it. They were not happy. However, the ones who knew law were analytical.
    “This isn’t the fault of the courts,” one said. “It’s the fault of the Montana law as written. Courts must follow law or risk reversal on appeal. This case was never going to be ultimately won. The law was way too clear on the matter.”
    Another: “Montana followed the law. It’s that simple and of course Watchtower followed the law...”
    Yet another: “The case never should have been started, as the law clearly backed JW’s actions. It never had a chance of surviving appeal.”
    They sure didn’t talk that way after the first trial. Some of their cohorts wanted to rub my nose—line by line—through that first transcript. ‘The court found your people guilty, TrueTom! Why would they do that unless they had broke the law—they who say they adhere to the law!’ I didn’t respond because I am not a lawyer that would try to unravel their affairs. Moreover, courts, while they may represent the best human justice available, are clearly not above bias from pre-existing philosophical leanings—if they were confirming a Supreme Court Justice would take ten minutes. ‘Wait until the fat lady sings,’ was my attitude. When she did, it was to throw out the judgement of the skinny lady.
    Not all were so retrospective after that reversal. “F**k the Montana Supreme Court!” was the outraged complaint woven throughout the thread, with some accusing those seven justices (the reversal was 7-0) of being enablers themselves! Child sexual abuse is the most white-hot topic of all and calm heads rarely prevail. One of them muttered at how they must be “celebrating this victory” at Watchtower HQ. But they showed no sign of it. The Witness attorney summed up events: “There are no winners in a case involving child abuse. ‘No child should ever be subjected to such a debased crime....Tragically, it happens, and when it does Jehovah's Witnesses follow the law. This is what the Montana Supreme Court has established.’” Obviously if one is on the hook for several million dollars and then no longer is, they will not mourn over it. But the focus was kept on the victim, as it should have been. Ideally, she gets full justice from the perpetrator directly responsible.
    The gold standard in matters of child sexual abuse is to “go beyond the law.” It is a crazy expectation and I can think of no parallels to it. The expectation is found in a remark already presented, but in truncated form. The full remark was: “Montana followed the law. It’s that simple and of course Watchtower followed the law, rather than just simply reporting child abuse like a good Christian organization.”
    If the gold standard regarding child abuse is to “go beyond the law” then MAKE that the law! That’s what law is for! Three times before the ARC Geoffrey Jackson pleaded for such a change—it would make his job “so much easier.” ‘Going beyond the law’ is surely to trigger the wrath of those who, not unreasonably, expect you to abide by the law! Change the law and everyone is happy.
    As though on cue, a report surfaced regarding another faith. An Oregon woman has filed a lawsuit for $9 million against the Mormon church because they DID report a confidentially disclosed sexual abuse of a minor. “Clergy are not required to report known or suspected child abuse if the knowledge results from a congregation member's confidential communication or confession and if the person making the statement does not consent to disclosure," Justice Beth Baker wrote in the Montana Supreme Court opinion. It is a statement that will clearly help the Oregon woman, but would not if it were not the law. Change the law if you are really serious about nabbing pedophiles.
    The way everything unfolded in Montana pretty well accords with my initial assessment. So great is the world”s frustration at not being able to make a dent in the child sexual abuse pandemic that the first court chose to ignore law in pursuit of that end. It might well be combined with some religious bias, but I would not hang my hat on the latter—outrage over child sexual abuse is sufficient in itself. The Witness organization did follow law, as the Supreme Count validated, but the first court reinterpreted law and made it retroactive to make it seem that they did not. I wrote about it here:
    Change the law! Why cannot that be done? If Watchtower wants to change a policy, they can do it overnight and have it implemented worldwide within the week. It is the basket-case eternally squabbling, turf-guarding, plethora of competing jurisdictions that cause many Witnesses to become Witnesses in the first place—they see how hopeless it is with human governments.
    Ones who want to bring the Watchtower down on the pretext of child sexual abuse, such as those who predominate at the Witness bashing site, are hardly out of bullets, but they are continually frustrated. Their efforts to put Witness stories above all others gains little traction because the pattern elsewhere is that the leaders of organizations, religious or otherwise, are the abusers themselves, something rarely true with the Witness organization, and also that child sexual abuse appears to be the primary export of the planet, crowding out stories of “lesser” significance. With Watchtower (as in Montana) the situation is typically that of abuse within a family or step-family and Witness leaders come under the gun for evoking law and not reporting it, leaving that up to the persons involved—sometimes they do but often they don’t. History may well judge that harshly, but it does not hold a candle to leaders actually committing the abuse themselves. The class action suit in Quebec that I wrote about was similarly dismissed. Moreover, that contributing perception—that it is a disgrace to call attention to child sexual abuse—has been firmly put to rest among Witnesses.
    The Epstein joke making the rounds is: “If you were surprised at Jeff Epstein committing suicide, just think how surprised he must have been!” Of course. With prison security protocol breaking down “at every level” and with 60 Minutes concluding that his injuries far suggest homicide over suicide, the conclusion that he was put to sleep by powerful interests to protect other pedophiles will never be squashed. People are naive, but not that naive. 
    A DisneyLand executive was recently sentenced for pedophile offenses, and Erin Elizabeth of HealthNutNews, who has lived in the area, says it happens all the time. The point is, there is no place where child sexual abuse is not, but participants on the anti-JW site see it in only one place—a place where its intensity pales next to places where leaders are the abusers, not just ones trying to stem it who may have done so clumsily.
    Thirty years into all-out war against child sexual abuse and barely a dent has been made! For my money, the JW organization is the most proactive of all, gathering every single member on earth to consider detailed scenarios in which child abuse might happen—if there are sleepovers, if there are tickling sessions, if there are unsupervised trips to the rest room, if someone, even a relative, shows unusual interest in your child, and so forth—so that parents, the obvious first line of defense, can be on the alert. This was done at the 2017 Regional Conventions, which were held globally.
    It is the common and accepted legal practice to go as high up on the food chain as possible with regard to any lawsuit—everyone knows this and judges it an unremarkable fact of life. “Knew or should have known” is the legal expression that carries the day and effectively amounts to a tax on the common person. Governments raise taxes. Businesses raise prices. When I hear that my neighbor’s lawyer secured him millions of dollars for his auto accident, I rejoice with him—then I open my insurance premium bill.
    As people become ever more debased, just where does this end? Women on airlines are reporting sexual abuse. Even rape has been reported, and with passengers being packed in like sardines, attendants expected to monitor this are caught dumbfounded. Do they “know or should have known?” In an increasingly depraved world, your guess is as good as mine.
    As to sentiment on the Witness-bashing website? Look, whenever one discards a scenario in which there is discipline for one in which there is not, it will be like releasing a compressed spring—it rebounds wildly, delirious with its newfound freedom, caring not where it goes. This will be true when one leaves behind the school, the military, or the job. It will especially be true if one quit or was expelled from that institution—and that is the case of most on the anti-JW site. Many of them have come out as gay. Witnesses may not gay-bash as do some evangelicals, some of whom froth on the subject and tirelessly prod legislators to make it hot for gays in general society—Witnesses don’t do that—still, there is no place for gay relations within the Witness organization—and that hardly endears them to former members who have gone that way. There is a plain backdrop of ‘settling the score’ to be detected in many posts. It is anything but easy to hold the line on Bible morality in a quickly changing world.
  20. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley reacted to Anna in 1914   
    You make it sound like fundamental teachings have changed. I wonder what would cause someone to actually say “this is not what I have signed up for”. Maybe you have a few ideas?
    I think you are missing the whole point of the Christian congregation. Let’s say that today all the anointed communicated with each other, and each brought something to the table, and each agreed or disagreed on something, which teaching or thought would they decide to stick to? Well, I hate to tell you, but you’ve missed the bus by nearly 2000 years. It’s already been done with the apostles. It’s already all there in writing, in the scriptures for all to see. When the first Bible students got together under Russell, all they did was peel away years of false teachings of Christendom and exposed the grass roots of the Truth.There has really been nothing much new since then, only some views became clearer, and a few were seen as unnecessarily complicated (such as types and antitypes) and were removed altogether .
    Paul said about the anointed in Ephesians  4:11 “And he gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelizers, some as shepherds and teachers, 12  with a view to the readjustment of the holy ones, for ministerial work, to build up the body of the Christ, until we all attain to the oneness of the faith and of the accurate knowledge of the Son of God, to being a full-grown man, attaining the measure of stature that belongs to the fullness of the Christ”.
    Paul shows that some anointed were readjusted (trained) by the other anointed, so that ALL of them together  would attain to the oneness of the faith and accurate knowledge.  So it looks like not all the anointed were given equal tasks. Some were shepherds and teachers of the other anointed, some evidently not. But as an end result, they were all united.
    That was the whole point of the Christian congregation, which in those days must have represented the body of Christ because it was composed exclusively of the anointed. Today, the congregation, or body of Christ, remains undisturbed, as Jesus is still their head and the head of the congregation. But it will not be made whole until all the anointed are in heaven with Christ. With the dwindling numbers of anointed, these congregations have been filled with those who are not members of the body of Christ, but there is unity, and it is still Christ’s congregation.  But somehow, you, and @Witness, imply that it is necessary that there should be a segregation of those who are anointed, and those who are not anointed. I cannot find that idea anywhere in the scripture.
    So, what do you think your “true anointed” would bring to the table today that hasn’t already been established by Jesus, and recorded by those who wrote the Christian Greek scriptures?  I am sure you must have something in mind. Something that would help all of Jehovah’s Witnesses today.  What is it?
    Was in the Jan 2016 WT, but here is the latest, Jan 2020 basically saying the same thing in par 7, as the 2016 WT
    https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-january-2020/we-will-go-with-you/
    It is not saying anointed ones cannot communicate with each other. It is saying that they wouldn't want to separate themselves from the rest of the congregation.
    I am not concerned about it because the true anointed have no need to seek each other in that way. From what I have seen they enjoy the fellowship and mutual encouragement of brothers and sisters of the earthly class while still on earth, and they look forward to being united physically with Christ and the other anointed when they are finally in heaven. 
     
    P.S. I need to comment on something you mentioned in one of your previous posts. You said:   "The Anointed are not the same as the Earthly Class. The sooner people get this through their heads the better for everyone. The Anointed are the BODY OF CHRIST. Do you not understand that God has a special use for them even now. Otherwise God could anoint a person when they were on their deathbed".
    The problem with that is that the anointed do not fully become the body of Christ until they are in heaven. While on earth they have that hope. But they are still sinful just like the earthly class. Although they have been given the invitation to heaven, their being anointed is no guarantee that they will be there. They will only be there if they have endured faithful to the end. So yes, their final sealing happens when they are on their deathbed. (........ prove yourself faithful even to death, and I will give you the crown of life". Rev 2:10). Some who were anointed in Paul's day fell away, the same can happen today. Paul, when he knew his death was imminent was able to say: "I have fought the fine fight, I have run the race to the finish, I have observed the faith.  From this time on, there is reserved for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will give me as a reward in that day" 
  21. Haha
    TrueTomHarley reacted to Anna in 1914   
    Exactly! Thank you.
    I meant any Tom, Dick and Harry 😀
  22. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley reacted to JW Insider in 1914   
    The question was basically about whether a person should do their own research but then just keep quiet about it if they proved to themselves something different than they had accepted at baptism. I thought your answer was excellent.
    Those of us who remain in the organization after researching the teachings on 1914 are remaining because this doctrine, even if completely wrong, does not negate the good work the organization is doing for the world in focusing on both the current and future benefits of God's kingdom, taking a stand on God's side, and offering the opportunity to join in with others who also want to share that message with the whole world. Were Peter, James and John still being used in the congregations around Jerusalem and Judea, even though they still had long-standing prejudices and misunderstandings about God's purpose for the Gentiles? (Acts 15 & 21; Gal 1 & 2) Of course they were!
    Did teachings coming from those same men stumble others? (Galatians, Barnabas, etc.) According to Paul, people were definitely stumbled by the influence these brothers, but Paul continued to work with them and cooperate with them. Our decision to continue working with the Witnesses should also still make sense if we believe there is no other group that teaches what we believe about various Bible teachings that are important to us (neutrality, conscientious objection two war, teachings about morality/Trinity/hell/soul, etc.).
    Also, there are those who might think that it is hypocritical to find something wrong in our personal research and then merely keep quiet about it. I'd say that we would be wrong to bring it up in the context of our congregations. This might cause divisions, and might influence people to choose a side based on "human factors" (who debates the best, who "sounds" more loyal, who "sounds" more intelligent, who has more human authority, the number of people who agree or disagree, etc., etc.)
    But, if we recall Matthew 18, the most important thing is to go to the source of the issue. It's not the people in our congregation, or even the elders in our congregation. They are not the source of this teaching. In this case we should go to the brothers who are the publishers and promoters of this teaching, to see what they say in defense of the teaching. As you say, we may not be satisfied, or find that they don't answer, or won't answer, or can't answer. Then we can make up our mind how we might still try to absolve our own conscience on the matter, or make a defense of our own faith on the matter. But we still need NOT go to our local congregation about it, or try to find persons there who will side with us. This will still create unnecessary contentions. It will make it appear that it is a matter of personal ego to be right or prove others wrong. If it were a matter of life and death, this might be different.
    If this is the same argument that John Butler often made, then the point is that the context is only about the Hebrew Scriptures, not the Christian Greek Scriptures, much of which had not been written yet. This is already mentioned however in our own publications:
    *** ws17 December p. 16 Parents—Help Your Children Become “Wise for Salvation” ***
    “YOU HAVE KNOWN THE HOLY WRITINGS”
    3 The apostle Paul first visited Lystra in the year 47. This is probably when Timothy, who may have been a teenager, learned about Jesus’ teachings. He applied what he learned, and two years later he began traveling with Paul. About 16 years after that, Paul wrote to Timothy: “Continue in the things that you learned and were persuaded to believe, knowing from whom you learned them and that from infancy you have known the holy writings [the Hebrew Scriptures], which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.” (2 Timothy 3:14, 15) Notice that Paul said that Timothy (1) knew the holy writings, (2) was persuaded to believe the things he learned, and (3) became wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. . . . Timothy knew the Hebrew Scriptures “from infancy,” that is, from the time he was very young
    The addition of the term "[the Hebrew Scriptures]" is in the original quotation, even though it was put in brackets. However, the Watchtower's emphasis has always been on the fact that since most of these additional book by apostles and other mature men had already been written that the reference is to all the books both OT and NT.
    *** w63 11/1 pp. 652-653 pars. 14-15 The Book of “Everlasting Good News” is Beneficial ***
    Consequently, when Paul wrote his final letter to Timothy and said: “All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial,” there were doubtless twenty-one inspired books, all addressed to Christians, in addition to the thirty-nine books of the Hebrew Scriptures. (2 Tim. 3:16) Today Paul’s expression “All Scripture is inspired of God” includes the writings of Jude and John, for these also were written under inspiration of God’s holy spirit and were added to the collection of inspired Christian writings, to complete the inspired Holy Bible.
    15 Today, therefore, “all Scripture” includes the sixty-six books of the Bible, as it is now divided up in order.
     
  23. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Arauna in 1914   
    It sounds like what you want is democracy in your place of worship—theocracy by the people, as though ‘if the people come to believe it, it must mean that God has so influenced them.’ It doesn’t work that way. 
    “All your people will be taught by Jehovah,“ the verse says. It does not say that they will be taught by themselves. Who needs God if we are to be taught by ourselves? The problems you encounter with those elders reflects that they buy into the former (taught by Jehovah) rather than the latter (taught by the people).
    Plainly, there must be some interface between the divine and the human. Integral to the faith of Jehovah’s Witnesses is that that interface is the successor of those who brought the truth to us in the first place—whoever fills the shoes of the “older men in Jerusalem.” That doesn’t mean that each person is not responsible for his/her own relationship with God, but it does mean that each is not an island unto himself. 
    I know where you are coming from on this, but it is overstated. One doesn’t have to believe every little thing, though to be sure, one is encouraged to. But you don’t have to. What you cannot do is grab the wheel of the bus. Most elders will take your remarks below as evidence that you are trying to do this:
    The clear inference of these remarks is that you mean to tear the cover off this ‘faulty and maybe corrupt organization.’ Do you really think that you will be welcomed with open arms? Their entire faith is that Jehovah does not lead his people that way.
    From the Reseach Guide commentary on Genesis 1:31–
    “The fall from perfection explains why the human body, though marvelously designed, is susceptible to deformities and disease. Evolution is therefore incompatible with the Bible. Evolution presents modern man as an improving animal. The Bible presents modern man as the degenerating descendant of a perfect man.”
    Because this is true, the “top-down” approach of the JW organization is what resonates with members. Yours smacks of the “bottom-up” approach, man as an “improving animal” developing powerful skills of thought to lift us all up by our own bootstraps.
    @JW Insider says each Christian has an obligation to examine the foundation of his faith. This is true, but means of examination differ from person to person. For most people, the only examination one must make of their vehicle is to observe that it gets them from place to place, to bring it in for cursory inspection each year, and to accept the fact that, being imperfect, it will require maintenance and repair from time to time. There will be a few mechanically minded owners that will go the extra mile, tear down the engine to examine closely each component, and in doing so, might occasionally forestall a problem, but this is hardly something to be expected of the average person, even if they are the elders that you want to run your thoughts by.
    I will concede that our elders might be prone at times to read ”false positives,” and it would be better if they didn’t. So? Doctors read and act upon false positives all the time and no one doubts their competency on that account. Today elders see direction on avoiding those who raise sects or divisions. (Titus 3:10, 2 Timothy 2:17, 1 Cor 1:10) and might at times overreact. Maybe they should rise to the occasion and “snatch from the fire those who have doubts.” Maybe. However the tone of your remarks indicate that you have more than doubts—you have assertions and conclusions that you want to debate with them. We are not a debating people. We are the type that waits to be taught by Jehovah.
    I’m not thrilled about any number of things in the Witness organization. From time to time I drop one or two of them in this forum. I would prefer that some did feel inclined to discuss with you your points—at least until you became so insistent upon them that it became clear to both that your home lay elsewhere. Still, I keep things in perspective. The good of the JW organization far outweighs the bad. Regarding my pet peeves, I look around to see if there is anyone accomplishing the acts of faith that JWs do minus those peeves. (Please don’t come back with ‘acts of faith’ are not the important thing—or if you do, take it up with Luke for writing ‘Acts of the Apostles’ when he should have written ‘Faith of the Apostles.)  If there was, I would go there. But there is not—not even remotely close—so that I even begin to reassess my pet peeves. I am imperfect, too. Maybe if an organization was structured around my peeves, it would promptly implode. So I accept congregation policy and discipline—I may not even think it is right in every occasion and particular, but such is the nature of working with people. I’ve learned how to yield and how to cooperate. I try to get my head around them, rather than insisting that they get their head around me.
    This strikes me as a remarkable lack of faith. Ought God not be able to unite people? Ought he not be able to get them to cooperate, and in so doing, magnify their acts of worship? Yet you stand as an island hailing ships passing by.
    You thereby have no need of applying the above verses on avoiding divisions, for you stand by yoursef. You have no need to apply the countless verses as to how to get along, because you make no effort to get along. Where are the meetings of Hebrews 10:24 that you are not to forsake? Where is the “in” of Haggai 2:7 that the precious things of the nations are to come in to? You have no need, or even opportunity, of showing love for the brothers, since you have no brothers—you have separated from them—to God’s dishonor. Maybe he will provide a “true anointed” (essentially from scratch) within ten years.
    Hypercritcal people, such as your words suggest you might be one of, are a nightmare in the congregation. They are constantly causing contentions over matters great and small. Yet, they are stumbled at the drop of a pin, and cause chaos in that way, too. The GB and elders work tirelessly to readjust such persons. But if they absolutely will not change, it is better in my view if they depart. They cause nothing but trouble.
    They need to get their heads around, and more importantly, their hearts around, the huge forgiveness Jesus afforded Peter for failure at a critical time, and yet even after this, Peter failed in a colossal manner, buckling to peer pressure that even some schoolchildren would not buckle to—the matter of avoiding Gentile Christians when the Jewish Christians came calling (stumbling even Barnabas)—and yet he continued to serve as a pillar of the congregation.
    It’s no good to be an island. The time for such passed long ago. Will your theme text be that of Paul Simon?
    I've built walls
    A fortress deep and mighty
    That none may penetrate
    I have no need of friendship, friendship causes pain
    It's laughter and it's loving I disdain
    I am a rock
    I am an island Don't talk of love
    But I've heard the words before
    It's sleeping in my memory
    I won't disturb the slumber of feelings that have died
    If I never loved I never would have cried
    I am a rock
    I am an island.
  24. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley reacted to JW Insider in WT: The most important thing for Jehovah is to sanctify himself.   
    I don't think that we need to worry about the difference in priorities of various aspects of Jehovah's purpose. His thoughts are higher than ours, and it's not up to us to try to prioritize specific things that were not already prioritized for us in the Bible. In fact, all the items listed below are tied together so that we cannot really separate, for example, his  sanctification from the well-being of good angels and good people (and "all creation").
    Jehovah's eternal purpose the outworking of His purpose by the Kingdom throughout mankind's history the vindication of His sovereignty the sanctification of Jehovah's name, reputation, righteousness, purpose the explanation for sin, suffering and death in this system the meaning and purpose of the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ the question of motivation for our Christian activities (works); whether reward (hope) or faith and love the central theme of love for both God and neighbor Each of these is tied together. Sometimes, for example. we (JWs) have concerned ourselves over the priority of Jehovah's vindication or his sovereignty. But when we look at the things that the Bible is concerned with prioritizing, these are not included.  Paul prioritized "love" over faith and hope. Jesus prioritized love of God and neighbor over all other commandments in the law. Jesus prioritized mercy over sacrifice.
    The entire book of Romans, especially, ties all these together, and just a few examples will remind us of how Paul touched on almost every subject in the list above
    (Romans 8:18-25) 18 For I consider that the sufferings of the present time do not amount to anything in comparison with the glory that is going to be revealed in us. 19 For the creation is waiting with eager expectation for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but through the one who subjected it, on the basis of hope 21 that the creation itself will also be set free from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22 For we know that all creation keeps on groaning together and being in pain together until now. 23 Not only that, but we ourselves also who have the firstfruits, namely, the spirit, yes, we ourselves groan within ourselves while we are earnestly waiting for adoption as sons, the release from our bodies by ransom. 24 For we were saved in this hope; but hope that is seen is not hope, for when a man sees a thing, does he hope for it? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we keep eagerly waiting for it with endurance.
    (Romans 5:1-15) . . .Therefore, now that we have been declared righteous as a result of faith, let us enjoy peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we also have obtained access by faith into this undeserved kindness in which we now stand; and let us rejoice, based on hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only that, but let us rejoice while in tribulations, since we know that tribulation produces endurance; 4 endurance, in turn, an approved condition; the approved condition, in turn, hope, 5 and the hope does not lead to disappointment; because the love of God has been poured out into our hearts through the holy spirit, which was given to us. 6 For, indeed, while we were still weak, Christ died for ungodly men at the appointed time. 7 For hardly would anyone die for a righteous man; though perhaps for a good man someone may dare to die. 8 But God recommends his own love to us in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. . . . 12 That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned—. 13 For sin was in the world before the Law, but sin is not charged against anyone when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death ruled as king from Adam down to Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the same way that Adam transgressed, who bears a resemblance to the one who was to come. 15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if by one man’s trespass many died, how much more did the undeserved kindness of God and his free gift by the undeserved kindness of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound to many!
    Just a quick aside, but was this verse [Romans 5:13] ever used in support of the idea that the Watchtower had taught about persons destroyed at Sodom, for example, when we said that they would still have a chance for a resurrection?
  25. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in 1914   
    That is a 6 on the scale of matters.
    It is perfectly clear, or ought be.
    I have read of other 5-year plans in history. I had imagined they were things of the past.
    Who isn’t?
    Yes
    Unlikely.
    You may rest easy, then The present understanding of the GB comes to your rescue. You are correct that anyone can claim to be anointed—such has always been the case—but as you have pointed out, they are bound and gagged and forbidden to communicate until made a member of the GB. Since only a lifetime of full time service  in work and venues more lowly than those whom they will later take the lead is a prerequisite, I have no chance of getting in—even if I were anointed.
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