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TrueTomHarley

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  1. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Anna in 1914   
    I’m not one of them. Nor do I have you in mind with application of that Acts 5 verse. I have other people in mind.
    Since I am also “out there,” even though not paralleling the topics that you take on, I give thought to “let he who is standing beware that he does not fall.” I don’t want to have happen to me what I have seen happen many times to others—brothers become experts in their own eyes and in time leave Jehovah’s organized worship completely, frustrated that it is not “keeping up.” 
    I counter that tendency to become wise in my own eyes by firmly adhering to the traditional door-to-door ministry and making sure activity here is supplemental, not a replacement. My understanding is that you do the same, but I suspect that some others on this forum do not.
    I counter the tendency to become wise in my own eyes by staying firmly cooperative with existing congregational arrangements, respecting the role and the need of leadership. I gather that you do the same. 
    I counter the tendency to become wise in my own eyes by always looking for the good in others, such as in Philippians 2:3 mode of considering the other superior—searching out and honing in on the at least one quality, often many, at which the other plainly is superior, then always endeavoring to see him or her primarily through this lens. This I believe you do too. In fact, you are better at it than me.
    I don’t view you as someone who is not obeying. I view you as someone who is bringing your gift to the altar. If you suspended your traditional ministry and began running down the Christian organization, I would reappraise. But you do not that I have seen. I too, try to “bring my gift to the altar,” such as it is, but it does not replace the organized activity that collectively makes the light shine.
  2. Like
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Leander H. McNelly in 1914   
    Several times I have heard this expression from you. I like to think that it could be ten or less years. It helps to keep on the watch.
    I even think that it is today’s emphasis on “critical thinking” that serves to downplay the above verse—as though obedience has nothing whatsoever to do with it—as though it is all a head matter that we ought to be able to figure out.
  3. Downvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Leander H. McNelly in 1914   
    I’m not one of them. Nor do I have you in mind with application of that Acts 5 verse. I have other people in mind.
    Since I am also “out there,” even though not paralleling the topics that you take on, I give thought to “let he who is standing beware that he does not fall.” I don’t want to have happen to me what I have seen happen many times to others—brothers become experts in their own eyes and in time leave Jehovah’s organized worship completely, frustrated that it is not “keeping up.” 
    I counter that tendency to become wise in my own eyes by firmly adhering to the traditional door-to-door ministry and making sure activity here is supplemental, not a replacement. My understanding is that you do the same, but I suspect that some others on this forum do not.
    I counter the tendency to become wise in my own eyes by staying firmly cooperative with existing congregational arrangements, respecting the role and the need of leadership. I gather that you do the same. 
    I counter the tendency to become wise in my own eyes by always looking for the good in others, such as in Philippians 2:3 mode of considering the other superior—searching out and honing in on the at least one quality, often many, at which the other plainly is superior, then always endeavoring to see him or her primarily through this lens. This I believe you do too. In fact, you are better at it than me.
    I don’t view you as someone who is not obeying. I view you as someone who is bringing your gift to the altar. If you suspended your traditional ministry and began running down the Christian organization, I would reappraise. But you do not that I have seen. I too, try to “bring my gift to the altar,” such as it is, but it does not replace the organized activity that collectively makes the light shine.
  4. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Arauna in 1914   
    I’m not one of them. Nor do I have you in mind with application of that Acts 5 verse. I have other people in mind.
    Since I am also “out there,” even though not paralleling the topics that you take on, I give thought to “let he who is standing beware that he does not fall.” I don’t want to have happen to me what I have seen happen many times to others—brothers become experts in their own eyes and in time leave Jehovah’s organized worship completely, frustrated that it is not “keeping up.” 
    I counter that tendency to become wise in my own eyes by firmly adhering to the traditional door-to-door ministry and making sure activity here is supplemental, not a replacement. My understanding is that you do the same, but I suspect that some others on this forum do not.
    I counter the tendency to become wise in my own eyes by staying firmly cooperative with existing congregational arrangements, respecting the role and the need of leadership. I gather that you do the same. 
    I counter the tendency to become wise in my own eyes by always looking for the good in others, such as in Philippians 2:3 mode of considering the other superior—searching out and honing in on the at least one quality, often many, at which the other plainly is superior, then always endeavoring to see him or her primarily through this lens. This I believe you do too. In fact, you are better at it than me.
    I don’t view you as someone who is not obeying. I view you as someone who is bringing your gift to the altar. If you suspended your traditional ministry and began running down the Christian organization, I would reappraise. But you do not that I have seen. I too, try to “bring my gift to the altar,” such as it is, but it does not replace the organized activity that collectively makes the light shine.
  5. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from JW Insider in 1914   
    I’m not one of them. Nor do I have you in mind with application of that Acts 5 verse. I have other people in mind.
    Since I am also “out there,” even though not paralleling the topics that you take on, I give thought to “let he who is standing beware that he does not fall.” I don’t want to have happen to me what I have seen happen many times to others—brothers become experts in their own eyes and in time leave Jehovah’s organized worship completely, frustrated that it is not “keeping up.” 
    I counter that tendency to become wise in my own eyes by firmly adhering to the traditional door-to-door ministry and making sure activity here is supplemental, not a replacement. My understanding is that you do the same, but I suspect that some others on this forum do not.
    I counter the tendency to become wise in my own eyes by staying firmly cooperative with existing congregational arrangements, respecting the role and the need of leadership. I gather that you do the same. 
    I counter the tendency to become wise in my own eyes by always looking for the good in others, such as in Philippians 2:3 mode of considering the other superior—searching out and honing in on the at least one quality, often many, at which the other plainly is superior, then always endeavoring to see him or her primarily through this lens. This I believe you do too. In fact, you are better at it than me.
    I don’t view you as someone who is not obeying. I view you as someone who is bringing your gift to the altar. If you suspended your traditional ministry and began running down the Christian organization, I would reappraise. But you do not that I have seen. I too, try to “bring my gift to the altar,” such as it is, but it does not replace the organized activity that collectively makes the light shine.
  6. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley reacted to JW Insider in If Bethel Was in the East and Not the West   
    That doesn't make sense. I repeat what I'm having for dinner at least every month. Doesn't make it rubbish. Just means that it was still useful. Besides, I think he meant that some of it was from his unpublished files, which is why he thought it was curious, but not in a bad way.
    Look at the old Bible Commentaries and Bible Dictionaries by Gesenius, Strong, Elliott, Albert Barnes, Matthew Henry, Vine, Thayer, etc. Now look at how many pages these men must have produced per hour to finish some of these works in their lifetime. Are you saying that anyone who could produce 24 paragraphs in two hours must be doing it wrong? Was it the fact that the supporting scriptures were so well remembered that they got the citations exactly right without having to double-check them? Imagine trying to write a thorough concordance of the Bible in the days before there were any computers or automation to help you out.
    Who says they weren't true anointed? All of the persons I referred to claimed to be anointed.
  7. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Anna in If Bethel Was in the East and Not the West   
    My [physical] brother is a master of defensive playing. He leaves nothing to build on.
    Neither of us are stickers. I will sometimes go to the Scrabble dictionary to check on the spelling of a word. He will go there to check on its existence.
     
  8. Downvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in 1914   
    Several times I have heard this expression from you. I like to think that it could be ten or less years. It helps to keep on the watch.
    I even think that it is today’s emphasis on “critical thinking” that serves to downplay the above verse—as though obedience has nothing whatsoever to do with it—as though it is all a head matter that we ought to be able to figure out.
  9. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from the Sower of Seed in FAITH. IN WHOM OR WHAT and When ?   
    Yes. To borrow from the political world—which I know is not appreciated by many, still, a parallel is a parallel—something occurs here that is parallel to the media’s obsession with “separating Trump from his base.” What is their goal in doing that? So that the former will become irrelevant and the latter can be absorbed.
    So it is with the obsession with running down the Governing Body. Why is it done? So that they will become irrelevant and those following their lead can be absorbed back into the world. 
  10. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley reacted to the Sower of Seed in FAITH. IN WHOM OR WHAT and When ?   
    Just one of an unnamed mob. Just like those Jews that joined in shouting"Impale Him".
    Who were they ? We do not know. They were opposers of the Christ. Jehovah knew there would be misguided men that would bring about that great injustice. They worship Satan in their "works" of their so called faith. Like a ghost ship lost at sea, they are adrift in their reasonings against God, lost at sea.
    Acts 17:5 But the Jews, getting jealous, gathered together some wicked men who were loitering at the marketplace and formed a mob and proceeded to throw the city into an uproar. They assaulted the house of Jaʹson and were seeking to have Paul and Silas brought out to the mob.(Who were they?) 
    Some 20 million people were associated with Jehovah's Witnesses last year, and the year before, and the year before......Their Faith is Individual, They All have a similar faith in the Bible, they recognize that there were mistakes made by imperfect men in the past. Those mistakes are nothing in comparison to the blood guilt that other religions share in. 
    The Governing Body not being inspired is a disclaimer that every word ever written magazines was inspired as the Bible was.
    Are they Inspired YES. The Anointed must be inspired to know they are anointed.The Governing Body are humble men that have served Jehovah according to the faith of every man and woman in the Bible that were shown as having God's favor. Jesus, as a witness of Jehovah and His principles leads the Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses. The Governing Body, anointed or otherwise, examine what Jesus said along with the apostles and others that God used to write the Bible and every example there in, they pray to Jehovah and discuss many topics that are common to men. Those who switch to this form of worship and those who have spent their whole life as Jehovah's Witnesses reflect Peters words at John 6:68 So Jesus said to the Twelve: “You do not want to go also, do you?”68 Simon Peter answered him: “Lord, whom shall we go away to?
    Inspiration comes and goes according to God's Will, not because of mans desire. Many times the Bible states "and the spirit of Jehovah came upon him". That person was not inspired every minute of the day!
    2 Chron.20:14 Then in the middle of the congregation, the spirit of Jehovah came upon Ja·ha·ziʹel son of Zech·a·riʹah son of Be·naiʹah son of Je·iʹel son of Mat·ta·niʹah the Levite of the sons of Aʹsaph. 
     
     
     
     
  11. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Anna in 1914   
    In all discussions about how inspired of Holy Spirit different ones are, I have not seen the verse (nor have I thought to bring it up myself) Acts 5:32
    “And we are witnesses of these matters, and so is the holy spirit, which God has given to those obeying him as ruler.”
    It is simply left out of the equation, and it probably shouldn’t be. “Obey God as ruler” and one may expect a measure of Holy Spirit. Drag one’s feet on obeying him and that will not be so. To my mind, the GB do obey him as ruler—they do their best.
  12. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley reacted to Evacuated in 1914   
    Quite so. And the understanding we have now, as proclaimed by the GB of Jehovah's Witnesses and supported by their application of Scripture, would appear to me to bear this out.
    The various perspectives of those contributing to the discussion on this matter really would not exist at all if it were not for these proclamations at this time. The historical "curios" of understanding that have led people who have stuck with the organisation to this point of time are in the public domain, as are similar "artifacts" of all areas of human endeavour. 
    Whether revered as trailblazing milestones in the search for truth, or ridiculed as crank-minded curios for the amusement of cynics, the body of historical thinking on the part of Jehovah's Witnesses serves really only one purpose. The 1st Century view of the apostle Paul on the effect of  various expressions of opinion on Christianty is as valid today as it was at the the time it was written:
    "With what result? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is being proclaimed, and I rejoice over this. In fact, I will also keep on rejoicing," Phillippians 1:18
     
  13. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in 18-34 year olds living with their parents.   
    This is the most ridiculous.....excuse me.......MOM—put your joint out! I can smell it wafting down here! Remember.....catch the house on fire and I don’t have a fire escape down here!
  14. Thanks
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Arauna in FAITH. IN WHOM OR WHAT and When ?   
    Yes. It is so ridiculous. The purpose of organization is to magnify an activity. The purpose of opposition to organization is to defeat that activity. There are some nuances, back eddies, and addendums—anything in which humans are involved will have blemishes—but in general the above statement says it all.
  15. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Anna in What job do you want in the new system?   
    Dirge leader for Matthew457845 no longer being around
  16. Thanks
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in Trump Derangement Syndrome   
    Doubtless it will. But no more so than the plight of brothers who are locked up in Eritria—it has occupied their attention for decades—where they don’t have a dime at stake. The aim it to stomp out the dissemination of Bible based beliefs, an aim with which you fully cooperate.
    I learned long ago not to do this. Not matter how respectful and conciliatory one is, completely with imputing good motives, it does nothing to stem the vitriol you emanate toward those taking the lead in the Christian work.
  17. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in Trump Derangement Syndrome   
    Steven Hassan is the David Splane of anti-cultists. He is the Great Explainer who works tirelessly in their behalf. He is the originator of the BITE model of “mind control”—Behavioral, Informational, Thought, and Emotional Control! He is the man who, as a youth, was naive enough to join the Moonies—the robe-dressing, flower-hawking Moonies! and now, having quit them, he insists that even the most intelligent people [read: himself] can be misled into a cult. 
    Of course, there are only so many Moonies in the world. Mr Hassan expands the C-word into ever more frontiers, and one of them is Jehovah’s Witnesses. You would think that it is the only one, to hear JW detractors carry on, but it is but one of an ever-growing stable. I have witnessed JW opponents on social media counseling each other as to the most effective way to conduct themselves, referring back to the BITE model of Hassan as a guide, as though he was a cult leader of himself.
    His horizon’s continue to expand. His current book is: “The Cult of Trump—A Leading Cult Expert Explains How the President Uses Mind-Control.” A review of it begins with: “Can’t understand why a loved one would vote for Donald Trump? Let the experts who spend their lives studying cults help break it down.” Of course! It is completely inexplicable otherwise! Only cult delusion can account for such a vote. When you think that half the country has fallen victim to cult influence and mind-control, it is strong evidence that you have drunk too much of the Kool-Aid yourself.
    So he comes out of the closet. He reveals himself. He is a leftist—nothing more. He is of the victimization society. I’m glad to see it, for it undermines his alleged expertise elsewhere—like with JWs, for example. Up to the point of his new book on Trump, one can begin to suspect that maybe, just maybe, Jehovah’s Witnesses are a cult. They pay far more attention to their Governing Body than other groups do to their leaders. They certainly take their faith far more seriously than do others, and they deviate from the accepted goals of society in fundamental ways. 
    Yes, you can just begin to imagine it—and then Hassan, who got the ball rolling in the first place, comes along and says half the country is under the spell of a cult leader! Okay. That does it. He is a loon, just upset that his candidate did not win, and that recognition qualifies whatever he has said about Jehovah’s Witnesses or anyone else.
    It’s not that the idea of influencing people is ridiculous. Its the over-application that is. No meaningful outfit does not incorporate some application of “behavioral, informational, thought, and emotional control”—the most striking example is that of the family. Is it really brainwashing that he objects to—or is it just brainwashing that is not his? Read him as he carries on about Trump and realize that the spillover will taint his mission with anything else.
    Leaving sects that were his bread and butter far behind, he tweets: 
    “We need to have a fundamentally NEW conversation about how we interact with Trump supporters.  Online arguing doesn’t work. When we label Trump supporters as “dumb” or “evil”, it only reinforces their own image that they are persecuted and cuts off any chance of them changing.”
    “Though I know it’s hard to do when they say such vitriolic things, we need to imagine they are stuck inside a religious cult. How would we try to get them out?  At first, we would make sure to avoid argument and really try to CONNECT. This may take a while but is vital.”
    “After we’ve established some trust and rapport, we need to be delicate. We don’t rush to talk about Trump (they will still be defensive and unmovable).  We need to find a subject that has parallels to their situation but doesn’t feel personal (i.e. Chinese Communist Brainwashing)”
    “Using that example, we can highlight examples of behavior control, information control, thought control, and emotional control.  Very delicately, we can ask them questions about their beliefs and reflexively listen to the answers without ANY judgment.”
    “What if they bring up the economy?” I interjected. It worked for Bill Clinton—“It’s the economy, stupid” instantly trounced all other considerations and won him the election. I follow Mr. Hassan on Twitter. When he returned the follow, I promised that I would take no cheap shots. I find this promise hard to keep these days, since his new horizons strikes me as no less absurd that his old. But I have, more or less, kept it.
    Incredibly, he answered me privately, though DM. He recommended that I read his book! Nobody answers privately on Twitter, yet that’s what he did. My only explanation is that he saw my Twitter banner, which suggests that I am a Witness—it’s an advertisement of Dear Mr. Putin - Jehovah’s Witnesses Write Russia—and he simply assumed that if he gently gave me opportunity, not publicly where I would not dare respond lest my OVERSEERS take note, but in private, like Jesus pulled aside the deaf man so as not to put him on the spot, that I would gratefully let him take me by the hand so as to escape from the JW cult!
    I don’t troll the guy. Everyone has a right to prevail on their own feed. I am not disrespectful when I reply and I don’t do it often. The next time he advised me, this time publicly, to read his book, I responded that I had a book, too. A third party to the thread tweeted that he had no book. “Get off your duff and write one!” I replied with a smiley emoji. “It is apparently the price of admission.”
    Hassan stays at it—keeping on the watch:
    “Has everyone seen this video of Donald Trump?  Senior cabinet members grovel in the exact same way Scientologists do with Miscavage.  Does this LOOK like a healthy organization to you? This is not normal.  This is cult behavior.”
    “He has actually said just the opposite,” I replied, “that his advisors do not have to agree with him and he likes the mix they bring to the table. To be sure, not many of them last too long.”
    “He says often what he thinks people want him to say or what he is told to say, but actions are what count!”
    “I don’t see it, Steve,” I wrote. “To get a job, you must convey that you are a “team player” Try putting on your resume that your talent lies in challenging or broadening out the boss. Most bosses want a cohesive team that will recognize who leads. Have other POTUSs not done this also?”
    Of course! Trump does bully on his feed, but the Presidency has been called the “bully pulpit,” after all. It is just that he is better at it than others that gets into Steve’s craw. If he bullied on Steve’s side, I can’t imagine him having any problem with it. It’s not mind-control that he is upset with. It is the mind-control that is not that from his side. I barely restrainsmyself from playing devil’s advocate far more than the little bit that I do. There are genuine reasons to dislike Trump, and plenty of people take up those reasons. You could call him a bull in a china shop, except to do that one must accept the premise that government as usual is a china shop. Junkyard dog in a junkyard perhaps works better. But this mind control charge strikes me as pure looniness. 
    “How is it that SO MANY people in this country are STILL under the spell of Donald Trump?” he tweets.
    “Though most of us throw our arms up in disgust or confusion, the answer to this question is actually quite simple:”
    “Trump, the Republican Party and the right-wing media industrial complex are manipulating the public. They are employing the same techniques advertisers and public relations professionals use but have done so in an even more potent way.”
    “They harness fear.  They repeat messages over and over again.  They disorient with conflicting messages.  They wage war on detractors.”
    It is not that they don’t do it. It is that everyone else doesn’t do it as well.
    “We somehow think that “mind control” and “brainwashing” only exist in Hollywood movies but they are very REAL phenomena and through the relatively new medium of the internet, we are seeing mind control like we’ve never seen in human history.”
    “The only remedy is knowledge.  We need to educate ourselves so we can educate others.  If you want to understand more, let me know,” thus taking for granted his role in disseminating true knowledge. 
    Still, I want to take his message to heart. There is on this forum an unabashed Trump advocate. Can I help him break free from his cult? Mr. Hassan sets the goal:
    “At EVERY point in this process (and I’ve been doing this for 40+ years for people lost in cults) we want to be gentle and caring. Arguing or TELLING them they are wrong will accomplish nothing.  We want them to have their OWN “Aha!” moment.  We never force it.”
    Okay. I will try with @James Thomas Rook Jr.. Let’s see if I can help him to have his own “AHA!” moment. It won’t be easy because he is a blockhead. But I owe it to him to try.
    Hello James. Have I told you lately that I feel love for you, just like Jesus felt love for the rich young ruler? I only want to help you—you must believe me. I do not want to take your trump-trump away. No.
    But I have noticed—I say this only because I love and respect you—that whereas you used to be the most fun and pleasant person to be around, lately you have turned into a mean-spirited so-and-so. Do you even realize that the “Arab” you just spit at was actually a Jew?
    Have you noted that the President does name calling? Do you think this is very nice? How do you expect other countries to respect America if it’s leader is not nice? [Have your “Aha!” moment yet, you fathead? No? Well, let’s continue] 
    Hitler was not nice, was he? I know that we will agree on that. See, I am trying to build a bridge to you. I am establishing trust and support, and I will be delicate. Stalin was not nice either. And Pol Pot—what a meanie he was! These are facts I am telling you, James. I know that you will recognize that, for you are very smart, and I know that you will see that Trump is just like them. See? I am attempting a fundamentally new conversation with you, James. Thank you for allowing me to prove my point.
    Alright, that’s enough! Am I my brother’s keeper? If he comes around, so be it. I hope he does, but there is only so much one person can do.
    If Trump hadn’t been elected President, I would not have had the gift—an entirely unanticipated one—of Steve Hassan the anti-cultist revealing to all that he is just another political leftist.
  18. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in Trump Derangement Syndrome   
    Steven Hassan is the David Splane of anti-cultists. He is the Great Explainer who works tirelessly in their behalf. He is the originator of the BITE model of “mind control”—Behavioral, Informational, Thought, and Emotional Control! He is the man who, as a youth, was naive enough to join the Moonies—the robe-dressing, flower-hawking Moonies! and now, having quit them, he insists that even the most intelligent people [read: himself] can be misled into a cult. 
    Of course, there are only so many Moonies in the world. Mr Hassan expands the C-word into ever more frontiers, and one of them is Jehovah’s Witnesses. You would think that it is the only one, to hear JW detractors carry on, but it is but one of an ever-growing stable. I have witnessed JW opponents on social media counseling each other as to the most effective way to conduct themselves, referring back to the BITE model of Hassan as a guide, as though he was a cult leader of himself.
    His horizon’s continue to expand. His current book is: “The Cult of Trump—A Leading Cult Expert Explains How the President Uses Mind-Control.” A review of it begins with: “Can’t understand why a loved one would vote for Donald Trump? Let the experts who spend their lives studying cults help break it down.” Of course! It is completely inexplicable otherwise! Only cult delusion can account for such a vote. When you think that half the country has fallen victim to cult influence and mind-control, it is strong evidence that you have drunk too much of the Kool-Aid yourself.
    So he comes out of the closet. He reveals himself. He is a leftist—nothing more. He is of the victimization society. I’m glad to see it, for it undermines his alleged expertise elsewhere—like with JWs, for example. Up to the point of his new book on Trump, one can begin to suspect that maybe, just maybe, Jehovah’s Witnesses are a cult. They pay far more attention to their Governing Body than other groups do to their leaders. They certainly take their faith far more seriously than do others, and they deviate from the accepted goals of society in fundamental ways. 
    Yes, you can just begin to imagine it—and then Hassan, who got the ball rolling in the first place, comes along and says half the country is under the spell of a cult leader! Okay. That does it. He is a loon, just upset that his candidate did not win, and that recognition qualifies whatever he has said about Jehovah’s Witnesses or anyone else.
    It’s not that the idea of influencing people is ridiculous. Its the over-application that is. No meaningful outfit does not incorporate some application of “behavioral, informational, thought, and emotional control”—the most striking example is that of the family. Is it really brainwashing that he objects to—or is it just brainwashing that is not his? Read him as he carries on about Trump and realize that the spillover will taint his mission with anything else.
    Leaving sects that were his bread and butter far behind, he tweets: 
    “We need to have a fundamentally NEW conversation about how we interact with Trump supporters.  Online arguing doesn’t work. When we label Trump supporters as “dumb” or “evil”, it only reinforces their own image that they are persecuted and cuts off any chance of them changing.”
    “Though I know it’s hard to do when they say such vitriolic things, we need to imagine they are stuck inside a religious cult. How would we try to get them out?  At first, we would make sure to avoid argument and really try to CONNECT. This may take a while but is vital.”
    “After we’ve established some trust and rapport, we need to be delicate. We don’t rush to talk about Trump (they will still be defensive and unmovable).  We need to find a subject that has parallels to their situation but doesn’t feel personal (i.e. Chinese Communist Brainwashing)”
    “Using that example, we can highlight examples of behavior control, information control, thought control, and emotional control.  Very delicately, we can ask them questions about their beliefs and reflexively listen to the answers without ANY judgment.”
    “What if they bring up the economy?” I interjected. It worked for Bill Clinton—“It’s the economy, stupid” instantly trounced all other considerations and won him the election. I follow Mr. Hassan on Twitter. When he returned the follow, I promised that I would take no cheap shots. I find this promise hard to keep these days, since his new horizons strikes me as no less absurd that his old. But I have, more or less, kept it.
    Incredibly, he answered me privately, though DM. He recommended that I read his book! Nobody answers privately on Twitter, yet that’s what he did. My only explanation is that he saw my Twitter banner, which suggests that I am a Witness—it’s an advertisement of Dear Mr. Putin - Jehovah’s Witnesses Write Russia—and he simply assumed that if he gently gave me opportunity, not publicly where I would not dare respond lest my OVERSEERS take note, but in private, like Jesus pulled aside the deaf man so as not to put him on the spot, that I would gratefully let him take me by the hand so as to escape from the JW cult!
    I don’t troll the guy. Everyone has a right to prevail on their own feed. I am not disrespectful when I reply and I don’t do it often. The next time he advised me, this time publicly, to read his book, I responded that I had a book, too. A third party to the thread tweeted that he had no book. “Get off your duff and write one!” I replied with a smiley emoji. “It is apparently the price of admission.”
    Hassan stays at it—keeping on the watch:
    “Has everyone seen this video of Donald Trump?  Senior cabinet members grovel in the exact same way Scientologists do with Miscavage.  Does this LOOK like a healthy organization to you? This is not normal.  This is cult behavior.”
    “He has actually said just the opposite,” I replied, “that his advisors do not have to agree with him and he likes the mix they bring to the table. To be sure, not many of them last too long.”
    “He says often what he thinks people want him to say or what he is told to say, but actions are what count!”
    “I don’t see it, Steve,” I wrote. “To get a job, you must convey that you are a “team player” Try putting on your resume that your talent lies in challenging or broadening out the boss. Most bosses want a cohesive team that will recognize who leads. Have other POTUSs not done this also?”
    Of course! Trump does bully on his feed, but the Presidency has been called the “bully pulpit,” after all. It is just that he is better at it than others that gets into Steve’s craw. If he bullied on Steve’s side, I can’t imagine him having any problem with it. It’s not mind-control that he is upset with. It is the mind-control that is not that from his side. I barely restrainsmyself from playing devil’s advocate far more than the little bit that I do. There are genuine reasons to dislike Trump, and plenty of people take up those reasons. You could call him a bull in a china shop, except to do that one must accept the premise that government as usual is a china shop. Junkyard dog in a junkyard perhaps works better. But this mind control charge strikes me as pure looniness. 
    “How is it that SO MANY people in this country are STILL under the spell of Donald Trump?” he tweets.
    “Though most of us throw our arms up in disgust or confusion, the answer to this question is actually quite simple:”
    “Trump, the Republican Party and the right-wing media industrial complex are manipulating the public. They are employing the same techniques advertisers and public relations professionals use but have done so in an even more potent way.”
    “They harness fear.  They repeat messages over and over again.  They disorient with conflicting messages.  They wage war on detractors.”
    It is not that they don’t do it. It is that everyone else doesn’t do it as well.
    “We somehow think that “mind control” and “brainwashing” only exist in Hollywood movies but they are very REAL phenomena and through the relatively new medium of the internet, we are seeing mind control like we’ve never seen in human history.”
    “The only remedy is knowledge.  We need to educate ourselves so we can educate others.  If you want to understand more, let me know,” thus taking for granted his role in disseminating true knowledge. 
    Still, I want to take his message to heart. There is on this forum an unabashed Trump advocate. Can I help him break free from his cult? Mr. Hassan sets the goal:
    “At EVERY point in this process (and I’ve been doing this for 40+ years for people lost in cults) we want to be gentle and caring. Arguing or TELLING them they are wrong will accomplish nothing.  We want them to have their OWN “Aha!” moment.  We never force it.”
    Okay. I will try with @James Thomas Rook Jr.. Let’s see if I can help him to have his own “AHA!” moment. It won’t be easy because he is a blockhead. But I owe it to him to try.
    Hello James. Have I told you lately that I feel love for you, just like Jesus felt love for the rich young ruler? I only want to help you—you must believe me. I do not want to take your trump-trump away. No.
    But I have noticed—I say this only because I love and respect you—that whereas you used to be the most fun and pleasant person to be around, lately you have turned into a mean-spirited so-and-so. Do you even realize that the “Arab” you just spit at was actually a Jew?
    Have you noted that the President does name calling? Do you think this is very nice? How do you expect other countries to respect America if it’s leader is not nice? [Have your “Aha!” moment yet, you fathead? No? Well, let’s continue] 
    Hitler was not nice, was he? I know that we will agree on that. See, I am trying to build a bridge to you. I am establishing trust and support, and I will be delicate. Stalin was not nice either. And Pol Pot—what a meanie he was! These are facts I am telling you, James. I know that you will recognize that, for you are very smart, and I know that you will see that Trump is just like them. See? I am attempting a fundamentally new conversation with you, James. Thank you for allowing me to prove my point.
    Alright, that’s enough! Am I my brother’s keeper? If he comes around, so be it. I hope he does, but there is only so much one person can do.
    If Trump hadn’t been elected President, I would not have had the gift—an entirely unanticipated one—of Steve Hassan the anti-cultist revealing to all that he is just another political leftist.
  19. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in 1914   
    In all discussions about how inspired of Holy Spirit different ones are, I have not seen the verse (nor have I thought to bring it up myself) Acts 5:32
    “And we are witnesses of these matters, and so is the holy spirit, which God has given to those obeying him as ruler.”
    It is simply left out of the equation, and it probably shouldn’t be. “Obey God as ruler” and one may expect a measure of Holy Spirit. Drag one’s feet on obeying him and that will not be so. To my mind, the GB do obey him as ruler—they do their best.
  20. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in 1914   
    In all discussions about how inspired of Holy Spirit different ones are, I have not seen the verse (nor have I thought to bring it up myself) Acts 5:32
    “And we are witnesses of these matters, and so is the holy spirit, which God has given to those obeying him as ruler.”
    It is simply left out of the equation, and it probably shouldn’t be. “Obey God as ruler” and one may expect a measure of Holy Spirit. Drag one’s feet on obeying him and that will not be so. To my mind, the GB do obey him as ruler—they do their best.
  21. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Melinda Mills in What job do you want in the new system?   
    Dirge leader for Matthew457845 no longer being around
  22. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Anna in 1914   
    Yes. I suppose it is.  A bit sloppy in my analogies, here. sorry.
    Separately, I was just reading about the first voyage to America and Columbus’s crew’s expressed fear that maybe the earth was flat. 
    A brilliant answer from the captain, spurring on the crew on by appealing to their Bible knowledge.
    “In that case,” he said, 
     
  23. Downvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in 1914   
    Did you forget to take your JWI pills today?  
    It did. It ended in 1919. But the time of trouble it ushered in has not ended—the last days of Matt 24:7 start off with a bang if we are to connect the two events—the first time that the entire world is concurrently at war. Some time ago I wrote a post about how one might collect “turning point 1914” quotes, just as some collect stamps or coins. There are a lot of them.
    I’m close to doubling down on that comment I once made previously about Jehovah leading his people carrot and stick with the end always seen as immanent. One thing that influences me in doing this is seeing how optimistic ex-JWs are about humankind’s future, far in excess of the the average person’s optimism. For most of the latter, reading the Drudge Report is like reading the Book of Revelation. Not so with many apostates—they see nothing but blue skies ahead.
    Make him say “Shibboleth”
  24. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in ANOTHER Difficult Doctrine. With a less complex explanation.   
    In fact, after checking to see if the malcontents were misbehaving here (they were) I did indeed have a share in the ministry. Did you? 
    Yes, you may say that I did the ministry not of Christ, but of JW.org. Nevertheless I read scripture to a number of people and discussed it with them, and offered to do the same with several more. Did you? Did you this week? Did you this month? Have you done that even one day since leaving the organization of JW?
    I would not ask Srecko this because he does not think it worthwhile to preach a kingdom message, speak of God, or tell of his purposes. But you do—or at least you have said that that you do. Jesus says it is important to preach the good news of the kingdom. Do you do it? If you want to do it on your own completely divorced from the JW organization, that’s fine by me, but do you do it?
    Will that be a ten-year lunch?
    Do I have this straight? I look at the JW organization and say, “Nah—they’re far from perfect, but I appreciate what they do to facilitate the spread of the good news.” I cooperate with them and thus I have a share in fulfilling Christ’s command. You, on the other hand, have found them not pure enough, and so you do nothing. 
    Are you not on strike against God? Are you not laying down the law with Him that He had better get His Act together and produce a true anointed good enough for you, and should he do that—THEN you will preach the good news, but NOT NOW.
    —even though it is crystal clear that people need the encourage from his word NOW and the promise of something better.
    How can you be so self-centered?
  25. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in If Bethel Was in the East and Not the West   
    Go back and read it again with more meditation.
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