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TrueTomHarley

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  1. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    She puts a bug in the ear of the chemistry teacher to tell them it is okay.
  2. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    I don’t think that we can see it here. In fact, JWI has said just that about the GB, or something very close. 
    This is the second time you have addressed JWI and I have interrupted before he can answer. Ideally, I won’t do it again. But you make very strong statements on things you do not understand. You had no idea the role of the workbook, for example, and yet made the most ludicrous charge about it. 
    If this is going to be your gig, it may be that you should attend congregation meetings for awhile, or even accept a Bible study, so that you can familiarize yourself with what you have decided to weigh in on.
  3. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Anna in Suicide. God's view. Organisation's view   
    That is an excellent counter-question for the troublemaker and his two cheerleaders.
    From the standpoint of the soldier’s countrymen, no—it is not suicide. However, from the standpoint of the other 99% of the world’s population, it may not be suicide, but it is stark raving crazy misguided, putting trust in a delusion of self-interested superiority, and his death is an absolute waste, rewarded only with a monument from his fellow delusionites. 
    What reward does God have in store for those who keep his laws even under duress?
  4. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Anna in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    That’s a little too flippant. I’ll walk it back. @Srecko Sostar @4Jah2me
    Even @Witness
    “To he who has been given much, much will be expected” is more like it, and the GB operates, in my view, in harmony with that.
    Sometimes in pushing back, one overreacts. The idea that I was trying to convey is that humans are not perfect, even those with responsibility, and Jehovah’s Witnesses accept that as a given.
  5. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Anna in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    She puts a bug in the ear of the chemistry teacher to tell them it is okay.
  6. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Anna in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    In school, I studied math. But I refused a textbook because that was not really math, but was a book about math. 
    I also studied science. But I refused a textbook because that was not really science, but was a book about science. 
    What! Those frauds were trying to indoctrinate me!  But I was too clever for them.
    Well....you do have me there.
  7. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    That’s a little too flippant. I’ll walk it back. @Srecko Sostar @4Jah2me
    Even @Witness
    “To he who has been given much, much will be expected” is more like it, and the GB operates, in my view, in harmony with that.
    Sometimes in pushing back, one overreacts. The idea that I was trying to convey is that humans are not perfect, even those with responsibility, and Jehovah’s Witnesses accept that as a given.
  8. Downvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    Of course they do! It is true with any discipline.
    The first follows from a clear Bible law to “abstain from blood,” one of the few carryovers from the Mosaic law.
    The second is an adaption to modern technology and reflects an unwillingness to dictate people’s consciences. Some will say that even the tiniest fraction is blood. Others will say, “it’s not a cake until you mix the ingredients.”
    Yes. And for the most part that account will be: “Oops,” and that will be the end of it. It is only you who expect perfection from these guys. Witnesses don’t. They didn’t sign on like kids expecting Santa Claus. 
    (Plus, you would have to define what you mean by “empty.” Just because something is modified in the light of new developments does not mean the original was “empty.”)
    Always the quarreling point will be the divine/human interface. It was even true with Judas. He and God were tight—there were no problems there! But that fellow that claimed to be the Messiah was not at all what Judas had been expecting. And those yo-yos he was attracting—don’t even go there.
  9. Downvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    In school, I studied math. But I refused a textbook because that was not really math, but was a book about math. 
    I also studied science. But I refused a textbook because that was not really science, but was a book about science. 
    What! Those frauds were trying to indoctrinate me!  But I was too clever for them.
    Well....you do have me there.
  10. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in RECOGNITION OF THE RULES OF NATURAL JUSTICE   
    Well....you have to think through what you say before you say it. If you say something dumb and present it as accusatory fact, what do you expect?
    The guy was a realtor. Do realtors make deals for life? Of course if he was in the midst of a contract, we could expect that contract to be respected—otherwise he could sue whoever broke it for damages.
    It is his repeat business that suffered, not his individual contracts, which only last a few weeks, or at most, months.
    I have used several realtors in my lifetime. Not one courtroom said I had to keep the same one forever.
    There are a great many “ifs” and “seems” in your accusations. Why don’t you nail them down with more certainty before going on the offensive with them?
  11. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in RECOGNITION OF THE RULES OF NATURAL JUSTICE   
    You didn’t read it right.
    Of course. When I was in business, I always made legal contracts with my customers that they remain customers no matter what. I made it illegal for them to take their business elsewhere.
  12. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from JW Insider in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    I don’t think that we can see it here. In fact, JWI has said just that about the GB, or something very close. 
    This is the second time you have addressed JWI and I have interrupted before he can answer. Ideally, I won’t do it again. But you make very strong statements on things you do not understand. You had no idea the role of the workbook, for example, and yet made the most ludicrous charge about it. 
    If this is going to be your gig, it may be that you should attend congregation meetings for awhile, or even accept a Bible study, so that you can familiarize yourself with what you have decided to weigh in on.
  13. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley reacted to JW Insider in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    This might be true, but I think that you have had some trouble pinning this "GB worshiper" label on people here. You probably see a lot of potentially contradictory ideas that seem like cognitive dissonance to you. But this might just be a point that many thousands of JWs have reached, while trying to make sense of the extent of human imperfection in trying to put a human structure around good spiritual concepts.
    We often look back at Israel's past, or even note the imperfect leadership of the early Christian congregation. Do we expect to be any better? Jesus said of the Pharisees and other religious leaders in his day that they had put themselves in the seat of Moses, and some ended up making "disciples" who were worse off than before they started. Yet what did Jesus also say about some of the same leaders?
    Matthew 23:2-4 says: 2“The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3So practice and observe everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4They tie up heavy, burdensome loads and lay them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.…
    We can still follow, even "obey" religious leaders, even when we know they are very imperfect.
    Any organized religious structure will end up being led by men who are imperfect, and therefore by men that we can never trust 100 percent, no matter how well they think they are doing. This is really what we must always expect: "Put not your trust in earthling man (even princes/nobles) in whom no salvation belongs" "Let God be found true though every man be found a liar."
    Still, Christianity requires a human, social structure because it is a "brotherhood." It's a place where we can comfort others and be comforted, encourage others and be encouraged, feed and clothe and visit others, and be fed, clothed, and visited as needed. But those who would be "leaders" at the very top of any organization will always tend to grasp at reasons to explain and hold on to their authority. They may not well understand this authoritative position they are engaged in, and human nature will lead them to continue in the type of behavior that works best for persons in authority. They will tend to look for what they believe is the best solution to any religious questions (doctrine, process), and then make a "command" out of it. It's the reason that we don't see a lot of public admission that a question has them vexed. Instead, in order for authority to work (for most of us) they must make a private decision about what solution works the best (least number of unexplained discrepencies) and then teach this "solution" (often conjecture) as if it is gospel. 
    (1 Peter 4:11) . . .If anyone speaks, [let him speak] as it were [the] sacred pronouncements of God;. . .
    (NIV) If anyone speaks, they should do so as one who speaks the very words of God. If anyone serves, they should do so with the strength God provides, so.
    Some of these "oracles" will attract sycophantic followers. That's also human nature. Russell acted as one of those "oracles" and so did Rutherford and Fred Franz, and David Splane to an extent. Just like in the first century congregation, people followed Paul, or Apollos, or Peter, who were all fine ministers. Some of us want to think of these modern day examples as being apostle-like. Some might even be apostle-like, but it's up to us to never just accept them this way, but to put all new teachings to the test.
    (Revelation 2:2, 14) . . .and that you put to the test those who say they are apostles, but they are not, and you found them to be liars.. . . you have there those adhering to the teaching of Baʹlaam, . . . you also have those adhering to the teaching of the sect of Nic·o·laʹus. . . . you tolerate that woman Jezʹe·bel . . . I say to the rest of you who are in Thy·a·tiʹra, all those who do not follow this teaching . . .
    Notice that Jesus' instructions to the 7 congregations was never about waiting for a governing body of apostle-like persons to tell them what was true and false teaching. It was the congregation's own responsibility to put to the test anyone who wanted them to be accepted as apostle-like. They were responsible to compare it to the true original apostolic source (for us, the Biblical source of teaching)  "Therefore, continue mindful of how you have received and how you heard, and go on keeping it. . ." (Revelation 3:3)
    As an aside, I would also say that the congregation is a place to inculcate the existing Bible teachings, not a place to find "new" teachings. It's a place to keep our spirits up, and keep our love alive, so that we can endure. Jesus addresses those in the congregations, but ends this section by making a point about how they all would stand to be judged as individuals.
    (Revelation 3:19-22) 19 “‘All those for whom I have affection, I reprove and discipline. So be zealous and repent. 20 Look! I am standing at the door and knocking. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into his house and take the evening meal with him and he with me. 21 To the one who conquers I will grant to sit down with me on my throne, just as I conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations.’”
    We're never going to get away from leaders who are imperfect and who will, by human nature, tend to ask us to believe and act only in a certain way. This is useful for some, especially at first. But we should also mature:
    (Hebrews 5:14) 14 But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their powers of discernment trained to distinguish both right and wrong.
  14. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in WT Society and Religious Education   
    Oh. I see. That perception is incorrect, though. Sample presentations are included, but they are but a small part of what is contained in the workbook. The workbook is simply the program for the upcoming meeting, making it possible to prepare for it. Any meeting of any sort  is better if you can prepare for it.
    The segment you refer to runs about 15 minutes in an overall meeting of nearly two hours.
    I haven’t used one of the sample presentations in ages. For the most part, I don’t like them. They are presented as a form of coaching. Door-to-door preaching is not the easiest thing in the world, you know. Try it yourself and let me know what you think. 
  15. Like
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Arauna in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    Well, yes....but this is a JW forum and the consensus will be that one must meet the basic criteria—no trinity, no immortal soul, role of God’s kingdom, neutrality, preach the good news, God’s name, traditional morality, and so forth.
    If one is going to sail outside those boundaries, keep sailing, and I’ll say it is Tim Cook.
  16. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Arauna in WT Society and Religious Education   
    Oh. I see. That perception is incorrect, though. Sample presentations are included, but they are but a small part of what is contained in the workbook. The workbook is simply the program for the upcoming meeting, making it possible to prepare for it. Any meeting of any sort  is better if you can prepare for it.
    The segment you refer to runs about 15 minutes in an overall meeting of nearly two hours.
    I haven’t used one of the sample presentations in ages. For the most part, I don’t like them. They are presented as a form of coaching. Door-to-door preaching is not the easiest thing in the world, you know. Try it yourself and let me know what you think. 
  17. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from JW Insider in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    “Trying to fulfill.”
    That hardly sounds delusional to me. Nor does it seem haughty or pretentious. 
    If it is not them, who else could it be? (No Facebook pages allowed) (It is not Dilbert, either)
  18. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    Where never is heard a discouraging word
    and the skys are not cloudy all day.    
    He’s just getting started. See comment on the other thread:
    “Come, come. This is not a gentlemans’ club. The only gentleman here is @JW Insider, who astounds me with his civility, even in the face of downright hostile comments. I confess that I sometimes wonder if I should try to emulate him more.
    His civility does him no good, however. Malcontents take his civility and beat him over the head with it. But he is of the sort who believes that theocracy dies in darkness, and I think their response does not matter to him,
    It is a little mean, I will concede the point. And I have no problem apologizing. Still, when you take the stage to level the most outlandish accusations, ill-informed except for from the playbook of other opponents, you cannot cry if someone pointedly takes exception to your shooting from the hip.
    Furthermore, my place is enshrined here by none other than @The Librarian herself (that old hen). It was her idea—not mine—to put me on a thread entitled TrueTom vs the Apostates. I protested. I didn’t want the job. I don’t go out of my way to pick fights with these characters. My protest fell on deaf ears. So I tackled the job with such ferocity that the entire thread was thrown into the abyss and I had to wear a Scarlet Letter, same as Hester Pryine—mine for “abuse.” (hers for “adultery”)
    Two years later the experience proved the germ of an ebook, “TrueTom vs the Apostates!”
    https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/917311
  19. Sad
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    It’s true. If I am asked a question in service, like, “Who is God?” I will say, “Hold that thought while I check in with my masters.” I dial them on my cell phone.
    I used to dial them on my smart phone, but they took it. They said I shouldn’t go thinking myself smart. Only they are.
  20. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    “Trying to fulfill.”
    That hardly sounds delusional to me. Nor does it seem haughty or pretentious. 
    If it is not them, who else could it be? (No Facebook pages allowed) (It is not Dilbert, either)
  21. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Anna in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    It’s true. If I am asked a question in service, like, “Who is God?” I will say, “Hold that thought while I check in with my masters.” I dial them on my cell phone.
    I used to dial them on my smart phone, but they took it. They said I shouldn’t go thinking myself smart. Only they are.
  22. Upvote
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Anna in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    “Trying to fulfill.”
    That hardly sounds delusional to me. Nor does it seem haughty or pretentious. 
    If it is not them, who else could it be? (No Facebook pages allowed) (It is not Dilbert, either)
  23. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    It’s about time! If you were more astute, I’d have 1000 from you by now.
  24. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Alithís Gnosis in JW.org Says Apostates are "Mentally Diseased"   
    It’s about time! If you were more astute, I’d have 1000 from you by now.
  25. Haha
    TrueTomHarley got a reaction from Anna in JW OPPOSERS GROUPS   
    I haven’t seen him in a long while. It may be that Foreigner banned him.
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